Chomsky; "Blacks Have Had About Four Decades of Freedom."

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#1  Edited By thebest31406
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Chomsky: if you look at American history, the first slaves came over in 1619, and that’s half a millennium. There have only been three or four decades in which African-Americans have had a limited degree of freedom — not entirely, but at least some.”

Earlier this week professor Noam Chomsky, linguist, political activist and one of the greatest thinkers of our time, sat down for an interview with GRITtv’s Laura Flanders. During the 26-minute interview, Flanders and Chomsky discussed the war in Iraq, ISIL, the climate agreement with China, and Ferguson, Missouri, among other topics.

On the subject of Ferguson and race in American society Chomsky delivered his take in the context of American history. Part of the interview has been transcribed below:

“There are prospects, but it is going to be very hard. This is a very racist society; it’s pretty shocking. What has happened with regard to African-Americans in the last 30 years actually is very similar to what Blackmon describes happening in the late 19th century.”

“The constitutional amendments after the Civil War that were supposed to free African-American slaves — it did something for about 10 years, then there was a North-South compact that granted the former slave-owning states the right to do whatever they wanted. And what they did was criminalize black life, in all kinds of ways, and that created a kind of slave force … It threw mostly black males into jail, where they became a perfect labor force, much better than slaves.”

“If you’re a slave owner, you have to pay for — you have to keep your ‘capital’ alive. But if the state does it for you, that’s terrific. No strikes, no disobedience, the perfect labor force. A lot of the American Industrial Revolution in the late 19th, early 20th century was based on that. It pretty much lasted until the Second World War, when there was a need for free labor.”

“After that, African-Americans had about two decades in which they had a shot at entering society. A black worker could get a job in an auto plant, the unions were still functioning, and he could buy a small house and send his kid to college. But by the 1970s and 1980s it’s going back to the criminalization of black life.”

“It’s called the drug war, and it’s a racist war. Ronald Reagan was an extreme racist — though he denied it — and the whole drug war is designed, from policing, to eventual release from prison, to make it impossible for black men and, increasingly, more and more women and hispanics to be part of society.”

“In fact, if you look at American history, the first slaves came over in 1619, and that’s half a millennium. There have only been three or four decades in which African-Americans have had a limited degree of freedom — not entirely, but at least some.”

He continues later:

“They have been re-criminalized and turned into a slave labor force — that’s prison labor. This is American history. To break out of that is no small trick.”

Article from Salon.com: http://www.salon.com/2014/12/11/noam_chomsky_discusses_ferguson_this_is_a_very_racist_society_it%E2%80%99s_pretty_shocking/

The late 19th and early 20th century history he's referring to is further elaborated in Douglas A. Blackmon's Pulitzer prize winning book "Slavery By Another Name." You can hear a more detailed account of the history in this multipart interview with Bill Moyers

As far as Chomsky analysis of the African-American's condition, I think he's spot on. If you really consider the overall historical record of Blacks in the US, from the moment they set foot on US soil in the early 1600s, to the present day, there were only about a handful of moments in history where Blacks have enjoyed relative freedom. The rest of the historical record shows that Blacks have been the victim of state sanctioned captivity.

Quite horrifying, really...

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#2 Marth6352
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Someone on this website is going to deny what he said as false and playing the race card...

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LostProphetFLCL

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#3  Edited By LostProphetFLCL
Member since 2006 • 18526 Posts

Yup, police officers are totally running around and throwing black people in jail under false pretense. I am sure most of the black population in prison are just innocent people victimized by an extremely racist society. They are just little angels like Michael Brown who would never hurt a fly!

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#4 thebest31406
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@marth6352 said:

Someone on this website is going to deny what he said as false and playing the race card...

Someone? I foresee...eight users?

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#5  Edited By top_lel
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@thebest31406 said:

@marth6352 said:

Someone on this website is going to deny what he said as false and playing the race card...

Someone? I foresee...eight users?

You can already see one and then you have the sociopath.

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#6 SerpentMage36
Member since 2014 • 43 Posts

Agree 100%. Before integration, blacks werent free. In some ways, you could say they still arent free, especially young black men.

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Master_Live

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#7 Master_Live
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Give 'em hell 54th!!!

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Seiki_sands

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#8 Seiki_sands
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Almost a third of black males can't vote or get anything but dead end jobs in this country because of non-violent felony drug offences, so I'd say yeah, he's pretty much got a point. We know they are arrested disproportionately, we know they serve longer terms where their free labor is exploited.

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#9 Marth6352
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@LostProphetFLCL said:

Yup, police officers are totally running around and throwing black people in jail under false pretense. I am sure most of the black population in prison are just innocent people victimized by an extremely racist society. They are just little angels like Michael Brown who would never hurt a fly!

Who the **** was even talking about police officers?

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#10 themajormayor
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Well duh. Chomsky is such an idiot.

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#11 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts

Slavery is bad! I'm Noam Chomsky! Give me money!

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#12  Edited By EnoshimaJunko
Member since 2013 • 322 Posts

I'm....not really sure what's so great about that interview with Chomsky. Anyone who has at least a basic understanding US history should know that blacks have only had freedom for like 40 years.

Or do Americans really not know anything about their history these days?

Or did I miss something here?

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#13  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178854 Posts

@serpentmage36 said:

Agree 100%. Before integration, blacks werent free. In some ways, you could say they still arent free, especially young black men.

Isn't the demographic that continues to murder each other?

@Seiki_sands said:

Almost a third of black males can't vote or get anything but dead end jobs in this country because of non-violent felony drug offences, so I'd say yeah, he's pretty much got a point. We know they are arrested disproportionately, we know they serve longer terms where their free labor is exploited.

Uh if they have a felony....the blame is on themselves. What the ****.....

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ferrari2001

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#14 ferrari2001
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If members of the black population don't have freedom it's because of the action from within their own community not the actions of those of another race. Poverty, lack of education, felonies, lack of work, cannot be attributed to the white population somehow doing something to make these things a reality. This isn't a race issue, this is a human issue in which segments of society are for some reason dropping out of schools and living in conditions that are not favorable. Unfortunately you can't force someone to stay in school and learn so that they can better their future. That responsibility must lie with the parents.

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#15 dave123321
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It's a complicated issue with a history of stuff that makes bad hard to get out of situations.

Fucking fin

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#16 thebest31406
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@EnoshimaJunko said:

I'm....not really sure what's so great about that interview with Chomsky. Anyone who has at least a basic understanding US history should know that blacks have only had freedom for like 40 years.

Or do Americans really not know anything about their history these days?

Or did I miss something here?

What they think they know mostly comes from US corporate media; propaganda TV. So the answer is no, they don't know as much as they should.

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#17 thebest31406
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@top_lel said:

@thebest31406 said:

@marth6352 said:

Someone on this website is going to deny what he said as false and playing the race card...

Someone? I foresee...eight users?

You can already see one and then you have the sociopath.

lol oh yeah. Well, there's plenty of evil out there on the internet...some of it was bound to seep into gamespot's off topic.

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#18  Edited By Seiki_sands
Member since 2003 • 1973 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

@serpentmage36 said:

Agree 100%. Before integration, blacks werent free. In some ways, you could say they still arent free, especially young black men.

Isn't the demographic that continues to murder each other?

@Seiki_sands said:

Almost a third of black males can't vote or get anything but dead end jobs in this country because of non-violent felony drug offences, so I'd say yeah, he's pretty much got a point. We know they are arrested disproportionately, we know they serve longer terms where their free labor is exploited.

Uh if they have a felony....the blame is on themselves. What the ****.....

Yes, let's completely ignore the 100:1 sentencing disparity that existed between cocaine and crack until 2010.

The question isn't whether they broke the law, the question is whether those laws were tailored and created to criminalize the specific behaviors of black drug users. To such an extant that a simple possession charge carried with it a five year mandatory minimum prison sentence.

The question is also whether they are unduly targeted and most of the evidence available suggests that yes, they are targeted disproportionately.

The question to my mind is also whether a non-violent drug offender really deserves to have their life ruined and their fundamental rights as a citizen permanently stripped after serving a needlessly long prison sentence, or whether that punishment FAR outstrips the crime.

You don't have a problem with the knowledge that we put more people in prison than well ANY other country?

What's more, private prison companies started under Reagan, which would be bankrupted without a constant and increasing flow of prisoners, are lobbyists behind tough sentencing laws. That obvious conflict of interest doesn't bother you?

It doesn't seem odd to you that the incarceration rate of African American women has risen by 800% since 1986?

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#19 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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@top_lel said:

@thebest31406 said:

@marth6352 said:

Someone on this website is going to deny what he said as false and playing the race card...

Someone? I foresee...eight users?

You can already see one and then you have the sociopath.

Funny how you keep trying to call me that when you can't even prove that I am one.

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#20 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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@thebest31406 said:

@top_lel said:

@thebest31406 said:

@marth6352 said:

Someone on this website is going to deny what he said as false and playing the race card...

Someone? I foresee...eight users?

You can already see one and then you have the sociopath.

lol oh yeah. Well, there's plenty of evil out there on the internet...some of it was bound to seep into gamespot's off topic.

The only evil in this world is the people who have the power to change the world but are too cowardly to do so. That's truly evil.

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#21 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts

Drug laws need some work, mhm, yeah, mhm yes

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deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d

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#22 deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d
Member since 2005 • 7914 Posts

In just a few years they running American culture, props, not hating

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#23 MakeMeaSammitch
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If there weren't any crimes being committed there wouldn't be an issues.

I think some people just need to take some personal responsibility.

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#24 ferrari2001
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@MakeMeaSammitch said:

If there weren't any crimes being committed there wouldn't be an issues.

I think some people just need to take some personal responsibility.

It's not just about crimes though. It's about opportunity, education, income etc. Now these aren't issue that were caused by members of the white community and so aren't racist issues, but they are real issues in the African American community.

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#25 br0kenrabbit
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@MakeMeaSammitch said:

If there weren't any crimes being committed there wouldn't be an issues.

I think some people just need to take some personal responsibility.

I walk a lot. A LOT. If it's within 2-3 miles and I'm not going to be carrying anything, and I don't have to be there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, I usually walk.

I have friends who live all around town and I often walk to their houses for a visit. Sometimes I don't leave until late, like after midnight late, and walk home. Often I'm with someone else as we leave together and we walk a shared distance home together before we have to go different directions.

I have a black cousin I hang out with a lot, and sometimes he and I will meet at a friends house and leave together as above. More times than I care to quantify we were stopped by the police, told to sit on the curb while they run our ID, etc. When I'm alone, or with a white friend, that has NEVER, NOT ONCE happened.

Make of that what you will, but the truth is obvious.

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#26 LJS9502_basic
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@Seiki_sands said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@serpentmage36 said:

Agree 100%. Before integration, blacks werent free. In some ways, you could say they still arent free, especially young black men.

Isn't the demographic that continues to murder each other?

@Seiki_sands said:

Almost a third of black males can't vote or get anything but dead end jobs in this country because of non-violent felony drug offences, so I'd say yeah, he's pretty much got a point. We know they are arrested disproportionately, we know they serve longer terms where their free labor is exploited.

Uh if they have a felony....the blame is on themselves. What the ****.....

Yes, let's completely ignore the 100:1 sentencing disparity that existed between cocaine and crack until 2010.

The question isn't whether they broke the law, the question is whether those laws were tailored and created to criminalize the specific behaviors of black drug users. To such an extant that a simple possession charge carried with it a five year mandatory minimum prison sentence.

The question is also whether they are unduly targeted and most of the evidence available suggests that yes, they are targeted disproportionately.

The question to my mind is also whether a non-violent drug offender really deserves to have their life ruined and their fundamental rights as a citizen permanently stripped after serving a needlessly long prison sentence, or whether that punishment FAR outstrips the crime.

You don't have a problem with the knowledge that we put more people in prison than well ANY other country?

What's more, private prison companies started under Reagan, which would be bankrupted without a constant and increasing flow of prisoners, are lobbyists behind tough sentencing laws. That obvious conflict of interest doesn't bother you?

It doesn't seem odd to you that the incarceration rate of African American women has risen by 800% since 1986?

Stop moving the goal posts.If they broke the law they did so because they wanted to do so. No one made them get involved with drugs. And I have no sympathy.

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#27 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts

Glad we solved this. Hope thread ends soon

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#28  Edited By Doozie78
Member since 2014 • 1123 Posts

I certainly agree with most of what Mr. Chompers is saying. The utter failure known as the "war on drugs" has certainly done a lot of damage. The US government is damn near a complete cesspool of corruption, and it's time for a massive change of the old guard. Question is, how do the people instate a legitimate government that isn't bought and paid for by the corporations and corrupt assholes?

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#30 LostProphetFLCL
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@marth6352 said:

@LostProphetFLCL said:

Yup, police officers are totally running around and throwing black people in jail under false pretense. I am sure most of the black population in prison are just innocent people victimized by an extremely racist society. They are just little angels like Michael Brown who would never hurt a fly!

Who the **** was even talking about police officers?

If we are going to blame people OTHER than those committing crimes for their incarcerations, then are we not blaming police officers? I mean people want to sit here and bitch about incarceration rates acting like it isn't the fault of those who broke the law for why they got arrested. Sounds to me like we are trying to say cops are unjustly arresting people.

You really can't try and tell me that if someone breaks the law it isn't THEIR fault for getting incarcerated. This whole notion that these people are victimized for being imprisoned for committing a crime is nothing short of asinine.

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#31 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts

Thought we solved this thread already

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#32 ad1x2
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@Seiki_sands said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@serpentmage36 said:

Agree 100%. Before integration, blacks werent free. In some ways, you could say they still arent free, especially young black men.

Isn't the demographic that continues to murder each other?

@Seiki_sands said:

Almost a third of black males can't vote or get anything but dead end jobs in this country because of non-violent felony drug offences, so I'd say yeah, he's pretty much got a point. We know they are arrested disproportionately, we know they serve longer terms where their free labor is exploited.

Uh if they have a felony....the blame is on themselves. What the ****.....

Yes, let's completely ignore the 100:1 sentencing disparity that existed between cocaine and crack until 2010.

The question isn't whether they broke the law, the question is whether those laws were tailored and created to criminalize the specific behaviors of black drug users. To such an extant that a simple possession charge carried with it a five year mandatory minimum prison sentence.

The question is also whether they are unduly targeted and most of the evidence available suggests that yes, they are targeted disproportionately.

The question to my mind is also whether a non-violent drug offender really deserves to have their life ruined and their fundamental rights as a citizen permanently stripped after serving a needlessly long prison sentence, or whether that punishment FAR outstrips the crime.

You don't have a problem with the knowledge that we put more people in prison than well ANY other country?

What's more, private prison companies started under Reagan, which would be bankrupted without a constant and increasing flow of prisoners, are lobbyists behind tough sentencing laws. That obvious conflict of interest doesn't bother you?

It doesn't seem odd to you that the incarceration rate of African American women has risen by 800% since 1986?

Look, while you can reasonably argue to an extent that black men may serve more time when they get arrested the fact remains that they did something illegal that got them put in jail in the first place.

I'm a 34-year old black man that has no criminal record and I make a great living. On the other hand, my 25-year old cousin is in prison right now for reasons I don't know (my uncle, who's also incarcerated didn't tell me) but I suspect it's either for robbery, beating his baby's mother, a combination of the two, or something else. He's been going in and out of jail since he was 18 or 19.

The biggest issue for black men isn't racist white men in power always trying to come up with schemes to keep black men behind bars and on welfare. It's black men who shame other black men into thinking that success (outside of selling drugs or being a celebrity) is equal to being an Uncle Tom.

If you want to feel sorry for somebody black, look at the Africans that are living in poverty or are succumbing to Ebola. Don't look at the prisons in America where the men and women did something stupid and tried to pass the blame to Whitey for being there. Yes, there was discrimination in the past and there is still some in certain areas, I won't deny that.

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#33  Edited By -Blasphemy-
Member since 2005 • 3369 Posts

@serpentmage36 said:

Agree 100%. Before integration, blacks werent free. In some ways, you could say they still arent free, especially young black men.

ugh please, we can get anything we want in this country now days if we have the motivation to do it.

with the exception of being president, cause that shit is rigged.

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#34 top_lel
Member since 2014 • 886 Posts

@airshocker said:

@top_lel said:

@thebest31406 said:

@marth6352 said:

Someone on this website is going to deny what he said as false and playing the race card...

Someone? I foresee...eight users?

You can already see one and then you have the sociopath.

Funny how you keep trying to call me that when you can't even prove that I am one.

You are definitely not one. Sociopath isn't the right word for you. It's become more of a nickname for you but rest assured, you are not a sociopath and that's what I'm sure of.

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#35 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

I'm not American and I'm not that educated on the matter so I can't be an authority on it. That being said, whoever thinks that racism against African Americans is nonexistent and that there is no such thing as some sort of systematic marginalization and criminalization of the black demographics for one reason or another is delusional, living in a laughable bubble that is subject to burst any time in the future. You can only attribute so much to personal responsibility and accountability in an attempt to explain the statistics pertaining to the hardly disputable dire and ruinous social and economic conditions of the black demographics. There has to be an external effect contributing to such a status quo. Allowing such a status quo to persist is one such effect. That's a very shitty way of going about arranging and maintaining a social arrangement. Blacks are American citizens, they are a part of the American society. As such, the social and economic conditions of that demographics have to be the concern of the state in its entirety. If not for the sake of their fellow compatriots then for their own sake because this status quo only has the potential to backfire and bite society at large in the ass. I think the recent events corroborate that statement.

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#36 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178854 Posts

@GazaAli: You're right. You don't know.

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#37  Edited By thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

@doozie78 said:

I certainly agree with most of what Mr. Chompers is saying. The utter failure known as the "war on drugs" has certainly done a lot of damage. The US government is damn near a complete cesspool of corruption, and it's time for a massive change of the old guard. Question is, how do the people instate a legitimate government that isn't bought and paid for by the corporations and corrupt assholes?

Like Chomsky said, there are some prospects but it won't be easy since this enterprise has been running for about 30 years now. I don't know if you can change the state but you can change the way it behaves by tackling this egregious practice one short term goal at a time. There are some possibilities with this new movement that has cropped up around the country. They have the numbers and the right attitude; they just need to articulate what their short term goals are. Goals like... say...eliminating mandatory sentencing and "3-strikes" or ceasing this permanent revocation of supposed "rights" for non-violent offenses. These can be achieved if there's a willingness on the part of the public to at least articulate them. I mean, the last thing we need is another large, popular yet cult-like movement chanting "we want justice" all day long. They must have a plan.

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#38 SapSacPrime
Member since 2004 • 8925 Posts

What a load of crap; big deal your ancestors were treated badly, get over it and lose the chip on your shoulder (you have a black president, I think its safe to say progress has been made). Using this logic Israel is entitled to do whatever they want to their neighbours given their history, but nobody agrees with that logic either.

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#39 Marth6352
Member since 2014 • 117 Posts

@ad1x2 said:

@Seiki_sands said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@serpentmage36 said:

Agree 100%. Before integration, blacks werent free. In some ways, you could say they still arent free, especially young black men.

Isn't the demographic that continues to murder each other?

@Seiki_sands said:

Almost a third of black males can't vote or get anything but dead end jobs in this country because of non-violent felony drug offences, so I'd say yeah, he's pretty much got a point. We know they are arrested disproportionately, we know they serve longer terms where their free labor is exploited.

Uh if they have a felony....the blame is on themselves. What the ****.....

Yes, let's completely ignore the 100:1 sentencing disparity that existed between cocaine and crack until 2010.

The question isn't whether they broke the law, the question is whether those laws were tailored and created to criminalize the specific behaviors of black drug users. To such an extant that a simple possession charge carried with it a five year mandatory minimum prison sentence.

The question is also whether they are unduly targeted and most of the evidence available suggests that yes, they are targeted disproportionately.

The question to my mind is also whether a non-violent drug offender really deserves to have their life ruined and their fundamental rights as a citizen permanently stripped after serving a needlessly long prison sentence, or whether that punishment FAR outstrips the crime.

You don't have a problem with the knowledge that we put more people in prison than well ANY other country?

What's more, private prison companies started under Reagan, which would be bankrupted without a constant and increasing flow of prisoners, are lobbyists behind tough sentencing laws. That obvious conflict of interest doesn't bother you?

It doesn't seem odd to you that the incarceration rate of African American women has risen by 800% since 1986?

Look, while you can reasonably argue to an extent that black men may serve more time when they get arrested the fact remains that they did something illegal that got them put in jail in the first place.

I'm a 34-year old black man that has no criminal record and I make a great living. On the other hand, my 25-year old cousin is in prison right now for reasons I don't know (my uncle, who's also incarcerated didn't tell me) but I suspect it's either for robbery, beating his baby's mother, a combination of the two, or something else. He's been going in and out of jail since he was 18 or 19.

The biggest issue for black men isn't racist white men in power always trying to come up with schemes to keep black men behind bars and on welfare. It's black men who shame other black men into thinking that success (outside of selling drugs or being a celebrity) is equal to being an Uncle Tom.

If you want to feel sorry for somebody black, look at the Africans that are living in poverty or are succumbing to Ebola. Don't look at the prisons in America where the men and women did something stupid and tried to pass the blame to Whitey for being there. Yes, there was discrimination in the past and there is still some in certain areas, I won't deny that.

Then you should know! You grew up during the crack epidemics!

The reason that black people are so far behind is that we've barely had a chance to succeed. Do you know about the black wall street of the 1930's and 40's? towns full of prosperous black families were burned to the ground by white rioters! How can you possibly expect a segment of society to rise above an oppressive population? There is no foundation on which black people have had to build upon. I met the first African American aerospace engineer in Georgia earlier this year, he told me about how it used to be in america trying to get an education. We weren't allowed to earn higher degrees, let alone technical degrees. Name any marginalized group in american society that has largely succeeded; Irish, Jewish, and more recently Hispanic, they have succeeded because of the fact that they have been able to acquire wealth! It certainly takes time to right the wrongs of the past, no one is being a victim. It's called knowing history. I will never let anyone stop me from becoming what I want to do as a man, but I will recognize that not everyone has had my opportunities. J Edgar Hoover(former FBI director during the 70/80's) had a famous line stating that the FBI's main purpose was the eradication of the black family and enterprise. Look at what happened to the Black Panthers, they were guarding their own homes from the police! Or do you seriously think that is their fault they do not want the police to patrol their streets? Once the Black panthers went from militant defiance to militant defiant education that's when the leaders were taken down. They stared to have daily breakfast programs to feed the children and the poor, centers to educate the neighborhoods on math, science, etc and they were all taken down by the government!

I really want you to respond to this as I'm surprised by your response.

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#40  Edited By thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

@GazaAli said:

I'm not American and I'm not that educated on the matter so I can't be an authority on it. That being said, whoever thinks that racism against African Americans is nonexistent and that there is no such thing as some sort of systematic marginalization and criminalization of the black demographics for one reason or another is delusional, living in a laughable bubble that is subject to burst any time in the future. You can only attribute so much to personal responsibility and accountability in an attempt to explain the statistics pertaining to the hardly disputable dire and ruinous social and economic conditions of the black demographics. There has to be an external effect contributing to such a status quo. Allowing such a status quo to persist is one such effect. That's a very shitty way of going about arranging and maintaining a social arrangement. Blacks are American citizens, they are a part of the American society. As such, the social and economic conditions of that demographics have to be the concern of the state in its entirety. If not for the sake of their fellow compatriots then for their own sake because this status quo only has the potential to backfire and bite society at large in the ass. I think the recent events corroborate that statement.

Well, I think you can only attribute so much to the nativity of certain individuals. Some of these folks are simply warmongering bigots who make the same bigoted excuses for every imperialist endeavor the US is engaged in. Surely you've notice that the same people use the same pretexts for the same illegitimate practices conducted by the US against certain territories. Latin America, Iraq, Libya, Palestine, territories here at home...all ravaged by war, all excused by the same rhetoric; "Oh well, they're criminal; they're depraved; they want to harm us; they harbor criminals as well as terrorists; they don't take responsibility for their actions..." It's the same garbage used to excuse just about every crime that the state commits against people. Now, that's not to say that there aren't some who are genuinely ignorant on this particular issue because I'm sure a few of them are. But the ones who tend to 'copy and paste' the same rhetoric in an attempt to validate these homeland security endeavors, they don't seem all that ignorant to me.

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#41 Marth6352
Member since 2014 • 117 Posts

@SapSacPrime said:

What a load of crap; big deal your ancestors were treated badly, get over it and lose the chip on your shoulder (you have a black president, I think its safe to say progress has been made). Using this logic Israel is entitled to do whatever they want to their neighbours given their history, but nobody agrees with that logic either.

Someone didnt read the article....

Funny how its a white guy that said all of this too. I guess black people are just imagining everything he said.

How can you pick yourself up from your bootstraps if you don't have any foundations for future generations.

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Jag85

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#42 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19587 Posts

The whole video that the article is referring to:

Loading Video...

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#43 deactivated-598fc45371265
Member since 2008 • 13247 Posts

Chomsky needed to remind us that he's still alive I guess.

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#44 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts
@marth6352 said:

@ad1x2 said:

@Seiki_sands said:

Yes, let's completely ignore the 100:1 sentencing disparity that existed between cocaine and crack until 2010.

The question isn't whether they broke the law, the question is whether those laws were tailored and created to criminalize the specific behaviors of black drug users. To such an extant that a simple possession charge carried with it a five year mandatory minimum prison sentence.

The question is also whether they are unduly targeted and most of the evidence available suggests that yes, they are targeted disproportionately.

The question to my mind is also whether a non-violent drug offender really deserves to have their life ruined and their fundamental rights as a citizen permanently stripped after serving a needlessly long prison sentence, or whether that punishment FAR outstrips the crime.

You don't have a problem with the knowledge that we put more people in prison than well ANY other country?

What's more, private prison companies started under Reagan, which would be bankrupted without a constant and increasing flow of prisoners, are lobbyists behind tough sentencing laws. That obvious conflict of interest doesn't bother you?

It doesn't seem odd to you that the incarceration rate of African American women has risen by 800% since 1986?

Look, while you can reasonably argue to an extent that black men may serve more time when they get arrested the fact remains that they did something illegal that got them put in jail in the first place.

I'm a 34-year old black man that has no criminal record and I make a great living. On the other hand, my 25-year old cousin is in prison right now for reasons I don't know (my uncle, who's also incarcerated didn't tell me) but I suspect it's either for robbery, beating his baby's mother, a combination of the two, or something else. He's been going in and out of jail since he was 18 or 19.

The biggest issue for black men isn't racist white men in power always trying to come up with schemes to keep black men behind bars and on welfare. It's black men who shame other black men into thinking that success (outside of selling drugs or being a celebrity) is equal to being an Uncle Tom.

If you want to feel sorry for somebody black, look at the Africans that are living in poverty or are succumbing to Ebola. Don't look at the prisons in America where the men and women did something stupid and tried to pass the blame to Whitey for being there. Yes, there was discrimination in the past and there is still some in certain areas, I won't deny that.

Then you should know! You grew up during the crack epidemics!

The reason that black people are so far behind is that we've barely had a chance to succeed. Do you know about the black wall street of the 1930's and 40's? towns full of prosperous black families were burned to the ground by white rioters! How can you possibly expect a segment of society to rise above an oppressive population? There is no foundation on which black people have had to build upon. I met the first African American aerospace engineer in Georgia earlier this year, he told me about how it used to be in america trying to get an education. We weren't allowed to earn higher degrees, let alone technical degrees. Name any marginalized group in american society that has largely succeeded; Irish, Jewish, and more recently Hispanic, they have succeeded because of the fact that they have been able to acquire wealth! It certainly takes time to right the wrongs of the past, no one is being a victim. It's called knowing history. I will never let anyone stop me from becoming what I want to do as a man, but I will recognize that not everyone has had my opportunities. J Edgar Hoover(former FBI director during the 70/80's) had a famous line stating that the FBI's main purpose was the eradication of the black family and enterprise. Look at what happened to the Black Panthers, they were guarding their own homes from the police! Or do you seriously think that is their fault they do not want the police to patrol their streets? Once the Black panthers went from militant defiance to militant defiant education that's when the leaders were taken down. They stared to have daily breakfast programs to feed the children and the poor, centers to educate the neighborhoods on math, science, etc and they were all taken down by the government!

I really want you to respond to this as I'm surprised by your response.

I'm well aware of some of the hardships that black men and women have faced since coming to America. But at the same time, I am well aware that black men and women have more opportunities today than ever before. Most of the old racists that wanted to keep the black man down in the past are either dead or are no longer in power. J. Edgar Hoover died in 1972, any influence he may have had in keeping the black man down has been gone for over 40 years and he certainly didn't run the FBI in the 80s.

It's great to know history, I was always taught that if you forgot your history you might repeat it. The problem, like I stated, is ghetto thugs that like to shame you into thinking that being legally successful in life is the same as selling out. I mentioned in a post a few weeks ago that people like to make the rapper Rick Ross feel ashamed of himself and make fun of him because he rapped about being a drug dealer but was eventually outed as a prison guard.

When it comes down to it, there are a lot of black people out there that like to use the past as a crutch stating that they can't succeed without breaking the law, despite the fact that we now have a black Attorney General, a half-black president, and we had a black female Secretary of State, who was preceded by a black man who was not only the first black Secretary of State but also the first black Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff. They are the problem now, not "Whitey" trying to keep us down.

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#45 Jolt_counter119
Member since 2010 • 4226 Posts

It's a tough issue. I don't feel sympathy for the African Americans (or any people for that matter) who grow up and act violently and break the laws and cry discrimination, but the country hasn't exactly brought up the black community to be players in the new service economy. They've been restricted education and freedoms for so long and then now all black people are expected to afford education in order to attend criminally expensive schools to get a decent paying job. While many do, for a lot of poor black people, they have to fight the odds in order to succeed. Although that's a problem for most people in the country too. America itself really just sucks (guess I can't complain though, I'm pretty damn lucky to be born in a first world country)

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#46  Edited By Born_Lucky
Member since 2003 • 1730 Posts

Five decades ago, my black neighbor was a judge in criminal court.

He sent thousands of white people to prison while he was on the bench, and he's the richest man in our neighborhood.

So let's stop with the lies that they've only had "four decades of freedom".

This BS is getting old.

And another thing -

In the early 1800s - Free bIack men used to chop off the heads of Native American children - and sell the scalps.

Why is this never mentioned during BIack History Month??? . . . . .

Unless the bIack community apologizes, and pays reparations, for their treatment of Native Americans, they don't have the right to complain about the past,

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#48 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

@thebest31406 said:

@GazaAli said:

I'm not American and I'm not that educated on the matter so I can't be an authority on it. That being said, whoever thinks that racism against African Americans is nonexistent and that there is no such thing as some sort of systematic marginalization and criminalization of the black demographics for one reason or another is delusional, living in a laughable bubble that is subject to burst any time in the future. You can only attribute so much to personal responsibility and accountability in an attempt to explain the statistics pertaining to the hardly disputable dire and ruinous social and economic conditions of the black demographics. There has to be an external effect contributing to such a status quo. Allowing such a status quo to persist is one such effect. That's a very shitty way of going about arranging and maintaining a social arrangement. Blacks are American citizens, they are a part of the American society. As such, the social and economic conditions of that demographics have to be the concern of the state in its entirety. If not for the sake of their fellow compatriots then for their own sake because this status quo only has the potential to backfire and bite society at large in the ass. I think the recent events corroborate that statement.

Well, I think you can only attribute so much to the nativity of certain individuals. Some of these folks are simply warmongering bigots who make the same bigoted excuses for every imperialist endeavor the US is engaged in. Surely you've notice that the same people use the same pretexts for the same illegitimate practices conducted by the US against certain territories. Latin America, Iraq, Libya, Palestine, territories here at home...all ravaged by war, all excused by the same rhetoric; "Oh well, they're criminal; they're depraved; they want to harm us; they harbor criminals as well as terrorists; they don't take responsibility for their actions..." It's the same garbage used to excuse just about every crime that the state commits against people. Now, that's not to say that there aren't some who are genuinely ignorant on this particular issue because I'm sure a few of them are. But the ones who tend to 'copy and paste' the same rhetoric in an attempt to validate these homeland security endeavors, they don't seem all that ignorant to me.

They seem extremely malicious and shockingly malignant and vicious, to me at least. I think you raised an interesting point now that I think about it. The very same users share the exact same views on the same issues, rationalizing any kind of transgression and wrongdoing through the same distorted and bogus pretexts over and over again. Its one size fit all with these guys because in reality it boils down to an elitist and hubristic attitude that is apathetic and indifferent to anything decent and truthful and to any injustice or suffering brought about by the actions of their ruling regime(s) against others. They wouldn't care enough to go into the trouble of validating whether any such actions were warranted or not and to what degree if so. You can expect with almost impeccable accuracy what their reaction will turn out to be to any shit perpetrated by those maintaining the bubble they live in. They evoke both pity and contempt in one' self.

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#49 Marth6352
Member since 2014 • 117 Posts

@ad1x2:

@ad1x2 said:
@marth6352 said:

@ad1x2 said:

@Seiki_sands said:

Yes, let's completely ignore the 100:1 sentencing disparity that existed between cocaine and crack until 2010.

The question isn't whether they broke the law, the question is whether those laws were tailored and created to criminalize the specific behaviors of black drug users. To such an extant that a simple possession charge carried with it a five year mandatory minimum prison sentence.

The question is also whether they are unduly targeted and most of the evidence available suggests that yes, they are targeted disproportionately.

The question to my mind is also whether a non-violent drug offender really deserves to have their life ruined and their fundamental rights as a citizen permanently stripped after serving a needlessly long prison sentence, or whether that punishment FAR outstrips the crime.

You don't have a problem with the knowledge that we put more people in prison than well ANY other country?

What's more, private prison companies started under Reagan, which would be bankrupted without a constant and increasing flow of prisoners, are lobbyists behind tough sentencing laws. That obvious conflict of interest doesn't bother you?

It doesn't seem odd to you that the incarceration rate of African American women has risen by 800% since 1986?

Look, while you can reasonably argue to an extent that black men may serve more time when they get arrested the fact remains that they did something illegal that got them put in jail in the first place.

I'm a 34-year old black man that has no criminal record and I make a great living. On the other hand, my 25-year old cousin is in prison right now for reasons I don't know (my uncle, who's also incarcerated didn't tell me) but I suspect it's either for robbery, beating his baby's mother, a combination of the two, or something else. He's been going in and out of jail since he was 18 or 19.

The biggest issue for black men isn't racist white men in power always trying to come up with schemes to keep black men behind bars and on welfare. It's black men who shame other black men into thinking that success (outside of selling drugs or being a celebrity) is equal to being an Uncle Tom.

If you want to feel sorry for somebody black, look at the Africans that are living in poverty or are succumbing to Ebola. Don't look at the prisons in America where the men and women did something stupid and tried to pass the blame to Whitey for being there. Yes, there was discrimination in the past and there is still some in certain areas, I won't deny that.

Then you should know! You grew up during the crack epidemics!

The reason that black people are so far behind is that we've barely had a chance to succeed. Do you know about the black wall street of the 1930's and 40's? towns full of prosperous black families were burned to the ground by white rioters! How can you possibly expect a segment of society to rise above an oppressive population? There is no foundation on which black people have had to build upon. I met the first African American aerospace engineer in Georgia earlier this year, he told me about how it used to be in america trying to get an education. We weren't allowed to earn higher degrees, let alone technical degrees. Name any marginalized group in american society that has largely succeeded; Irish, Jewish, and more recently Hispanic, they have succeeded because of the fact that they have been able to acquire wealth! It certainly takes time to right the wrongs of the past, no one is being a victim. It's called knowing history. I will never let anyone stop me from becoming what I want to do as a man, but I will recognize that not everyone has had my opportunities. J Edgar Hoover(former FBI director during the 70/80's) had a famous line stating that the FBI's main purpose was the eradication of the black family and enterprise. Look at what happened to the Black Panthers, they were guarding their own homes from the police! Or do you seriously think that is their fault they do not want the police to patrol their streets? Once the Black panthers went from militant defiance to militant defiant education that's when the leaders were taken down. They stared to have daily breakfast programs to feed the children and the poor, centers to educate the neighborhoods on math, science, etc and they were all taken down by the government!

I really want you to respond to this as I'm surprised by your response.

I'm well aware of some of the hardships that black men and women have faced since coming to America. But at the same time, I am well aware that black men and women have more opportunities today than ever before. Most of the old racists that wanted to keep the black man down in the past are either dead or are no longer in power. J. Edgar Hoover died in 1972, any influence he may have had in keeping the black man down has been gone for over 40 years and he certainly didn't run the FBI in the 80s.

It's great to know history, I was always taught that if you forgot your history you might repeat it. The problem, like I stated, is ghetto thugs that like to shame you into thinking that being legally successful in life is the same as selling out. I mentioned in a post a few weeks ago that people like to make the rapper Rick Ross feel ashamed of himself and make fun of him because he rapped about being a drug dealer but was eventually outed as a prison guard.

When it comes down to it, there are a lot of black people out there that like to use the past as a crutch stating that they can't succeed without breaking the law, despite the fact that we now have a black Attorney General, a half-black president, and we had a black female Secretary of State, who was preceded by a black man who was not only the first black Secretary of State but also the first black Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff. They are the problem now, not "Whitey" trying to keep us down.

I don't know man, I've met quite a few "ghetto thugs/people" and every time I say I'm in school I get appraise. While i certainly understand what you're saying in regards to educating yourself being looked down upon by some black people, that isn't the majority, I would say it's a vocal minority. You shouldn't let them make you fell bad or anything.

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Black_Alpha_G

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#50 Black_Alpha_G
Member since 2011 • 94 Posts

I'll just leave theselinks here, so people can deny it and claim it's not as bad as it seems, or use anecdotal evidence to refute it.