Caucasian lesbian couple given black donor's sperm by accident and sue. Is the lawsuit racist or not? (read post before voting)

They're not being sued because the area is racist. They're being sued because being an interracial family in a racist area is (allegedly) detrimental to that family's way of life. And being an interracial family IS the clinic's fault. The parents, anticipating this (alleged) racism, chose a white donor in order to avoid these problems. If the clinic hadn't let the parents choose the donor and then given a donor other than what was chosen, then the parents wouldn't be stuck with a mixed-race child in an area where racism is (allegedly) common. This situation wasn't out of the clinic's control at all, it is a direct result of them letting the parents choose the donor and then giving them a different donor without the parents' consent. This is the clinic's fault. The parents took the necessary precautions to ensure that their child wouldn't be the victim of this (alleged) racism, and then the clinic, without the parents' consent, rendered those precautions moot.

True, but you do not have the grounds for a lawsuit because of that mistake.

If "I" (the clinic) am not held liable, then who is?

And since analogies are fun, here's another one. You go online and order a $5000 Whatever. The seller provides multiple delivery options, including leaving it on your doorstep, or not delivering without someone to sign for the product. You, knowing that you live in a bad neighborhood and that you're ordering a $5000 product, obviously opt for a signature to be required. Later on, after you fail to receive the product, you check with the seller and find out that they had it left on your doorstep against your consent. While the box was sitting there on your doorstep, someone came along and stole it. Now you go to the seller and demand your money back, and they tell you, "pfft, not our fault you live in a bad area."

You, as the customer who got screwed over, probably aren't gonna be satisfied with that reply. After all, you knew ahead of time that someone would steal the shit if it was left on your doorstep, that's precisely why you chose the delivery option that required you to personally sign for it. It's not the seller's fault that you live in a bad area, but it was their obligation as a business to deliver on their promises. If they gave you the option of having to sign for it in person, then it's on them to deliver on that option. If they can't guarantee that it won't be left unattended on your doorstep, then they shouldn't have the option of signed delivery. That way, you the consumer know that buying from them is too risky, and you can get the product from somewhere else. In this case, you're out of $5000 because the seller gave you false information and didn't deliver on what was promised. You knew the risks and took precautions against the risks, but it still didn't matter because the seller undid those precautions without your consent. If they'd so much as said, "sorry, for some reason we can't do signed delivery this time," then at the very least you could have cancelled your order and not been out of $5000.

What are you saying, thegerg?

@MrGeezer: These analogies are comparing items with cost to life that is priceless.

The main points of the lawsuit claim that they will be subject to discrimination and other difficulties because of the type of area they are in.Supposedly their area isn't very tolerant towards people who are not of the fairer completion and they fear they may have to move as a result. She admits that she has “limited cultural competency” in regards of raising a mixed child.

The lawsuit is not about the discrimination of the clinic. It is the discrimination of the community they live in and the community is not facing a lawsuit, but the clinic is.

Right. Most people would be fuming mad if they lost their PS4 over this kind of screwup, and that's something where it's easy as hell to get an identical replacement for what was lost. The child that the couple would have had if the clinic hadn't screwed up? There is no identical replacement unit for that. That kid is gone forever, replaced by one that the couple didn't ask for. Furthermore, the new child is a lifelong commitment, and there's no way to "refund" the mother for the 9 months she spent carrying a child. This would be a big deal even if it were JUST a product like jewelry or a computer. The fact that this involves people lives and their families makes the screw-up much, much worse. If the couple had simply ordered a computer and been sent the wrong model, that's an easy fix because all that would require is swapping it out for the right one. Can't exactly do that here, though.

I understand what you are saying and that is perfectly reasonable. Making a lawsuit about the discrimination of others is something that is more questionable. The premise of a lawsuit is what matters and it is not something that has potential to be fruitful in this situation, I believe. That said, I am not a lawyer (though one of my relative's clients recommended I go to school for it), so there could be a way for this to succeed that I am not aware of.

You can shout and swear all you want but you did say if you can't be honest then you're scared to be a parent which you reversed later.

You and I clearly have a different understanding of what is occurring. I am interested in knowing what yours is beyond what you have already said.

Also, the following is saying the same thing in two different ways.

Both state they had a duty and both state they did not do it. The difference is that my statement goes further and declares the action that took place instead.

I wouldn't say he didn't have grounds.....

Back to the topic at hand, it's hard to really say what in the hearts of those pursuing the lawsuit so I can't really say it isn't or is racist

Negligence would be something that may come into play with the car thing, right?

@BranKetra: life is valued in monetary terms at times

I never reversed what I said. I said you need to be honest with explanation. If you still choose to ignore that, we're done here.

I'm just going to leave this here.....

It seems that Lucas has stayed consistent on what he has said. His clarification giving his posts throughout the same level of meaning.m

How many times do I have to tell you you're ignoring everything else I said? Removing context does not help your case.

damn.

nothing could make the plight of the black man more clear than when the lesbians are afraid their mixed child will make them subject to persecution.

Your stated understanding is the same as mine, so I am unsure where the disconnect is.

At no point did I say that clinic did their duty. I said they did their duty in a way other than what was asked. In other words, they did it incorrectly. If they were disingenuous when they provided donor information then I have an inaccurate understanding of the situation. However, that clarity has not been provided by evidence.

Anyway, the couple has made it clear they are not racist in any possible way beyond the unconscious, so it is not them who is worthy of being under suspicious of that ethical wrongness except for the admitted generational racism.

@thegerg: I said I did not do something. You are going to have get over it.

The lawsuit isn't about the discrimination of others, the lawsuit is about the actions of the clinic. If the clinic had given the couple the sperm that they chose, or if the couple actually CHOSE sperm from that particular black man, then there would be no grounds for a lawsuit regardless of how much racism the family is experiencing. The lawsuit is still totally about the clinic letting them choose the donor and then giving them a different donor against their will. The talk about the racism in the area is simply a means of expanding upon how the family has experienced hardship.

Or think of it like this...even if the donor had been a white man (just a different white man than the ones that the parents chose), then the family would STILL have grounds to sue even though they weren't experiencing racism that an interracial family would experience in that area. Whereas if the parents had CHOSEN that particular black donor, they'd have no grounds to sue. Because then the clinic is just giving the parents what they ask for, and if that causes problems then that was the parents' job to think about that beforehand.

You just don't want to quit do you? I specifically asked you about that statement in regards to parenting in general without the context of this thread. And you upheld that opinion.

That is really something. That sort of premise occurred with a lawsuit back in 2012 and earlier in 2010. No specific damages were pursued in 2012, but approval of negligence was, The damages and extent of injuries were not included in the appeals process of the Tennessee 2010 lawsuit and that higher court ruled against the owner whose car was stolen.

I ask when do we stop. I wonder if a home owner would be considered negligent by leaving their door unlocked and a thief enters and steals from them by a court.

I did some research into this event beyond what the OP said and you are right that the main point is not about the discrimination of others. From the ChicagoTribune,"Cramblett is suing Midwest Sperm Bank for wrongful birth and breach of warranty, citing the emotional and economic losses she has suffered." I wish people would be more clear when making threads.

@BranKetra: it was pretty clear what the lawsuit was about my man from the OP.

I think you're stuck on this part.

JustPlainLucas said: You certainly don't tell a kid they suck at anything.

Which would make it seem like I'm backpedaling, but you should read the rest.

JustPlainLucas said: You explain to them how and why they aren't doing well in those areas, and suggest things they can do to improve. You devote more time to helping your child study in math. If they aren't good at soccer, you have them try other sports until they find something they're good at. You don't just sit on the bleachers going, "Go Timmy! You're doing great!" while whispering to yourself "even though you never score a goal". You can't keep letting the child think it's doing ok when it's not. You're doing a disservice to the child, because the real world will eat them up when they become adults.

I upheld my position that you need to be honest with your kids, and explain WHY you're being honest with them. If you want to find me the EXACT quote where I backpedaled, please present it because I can't find it.

That's awkward, but I can see why the clinic would be liable for this screw-up.

That is wrong.

The main points of the lawsuit claim that they will be subject to discrimination and other difficulties because of the type of area they are in.

It is not about that.

I reckon there is a little bit of racism going on but if you break it down to it's bare facts, they did not get what they paid for. It's like going to Macdonalds for a vanilla milkshake but then getting home and it's chocolate.

Nothing wrong with chocolate but it's not what was ordered....

You know man, I really do like you and find you a very decent and courteous fella, but sometimes you make me chuckle. I just don't know how to put it into words, but your attitude and your views on human nature and society at large sometimes amuse me. What are the chances of her growing up to be that kind of a teenager? And if by some statistical miracle she did grow up to be that kind of philanthropic, altruistic teenager, how little of an impact do you think her hipster lobbying crap would make, if it made any impact at all?

I find this very, very intriguing. I'll send you a PM later to explain why.

First time we ever agreed on something. I knew it would happen eventually XD

My opinion comes from my personal experiences, and I'm assuming you do the same. We live in very different places so is it so strange that people here act differently from people there?

pseudo-intelectual neckbeardery as usual

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"The main points of the lawsuit claim that they will be subject to discrimination and other difficulties because of the type of area they are in. Supposedly their area isn't very tolerant towards people who are not of the fairer completion and they fear they may have to move as a result". If the area isn't "tolerant" towards non-whites, is it tolerant to lesbians? Then again maybe they live in a wealthy, white, liberal, area that is snobbish and racist in its own ways.

I guess you could see it as racist. I don't really agree with same-sex couples raising children though. The bigger issue for this kid is not that he's mixed-race but that he's being raised without a father.

Sorry but that's not even intellectual

IT s common sense, lol

The clinic made a big mistake here. This is like having an ivf only they use the sperm from another partner. They didn't want that sperm, but someone else, the clinic fucked up and has to pay the damages. end of story.

I would really like to see what happens when a black couple get's chinese sperm, the clinic has a great responsiblity here. Imo they should shut that clinic down immediately.

Um... is this just the default response to any sort of serious answer these days on the forum? Just some asinine, immature response that accomplishes nothing? Or can you not brain today because you has the dumb?

lol. good point.

I had earlier said that they might be racist. In thinking further, I don't think we can conclude that they are racist. Their issue seems to be that they are suing because of problems/difficulties that might arise from them and the kid being picked on because it is mixed race, not that they are upset that the kid is mixed per se.

People are pretty much the same everywhere. Things like different geopolitical conditions and socio-economic ones that are strictly bound to the immediate present allow for what appears to be an endless spectrum of variety within the human race. Just let the Dutch people for example take a whiff of a shortage in food supply and feast your eyes with the repugnant spectacle.

@GazaAli: I know it's confusing, but when I say "here" I still mean Portugal, since I don't know the Dutch well enough yet (not saying Portuguese people are better, I just spent more time with them =P)

But if everyone is roughly the same everywhere then I'm sure you know some teenagers who aren't moody and selfish? Why do you group all teenagers in the same bunch? At the age of 16 I was a team leader of a group of roughly 20 programmers...a friend of mine opened his first shoe store at the age of 19, by the age of 21 he had 8 stores spread throughout the country. A cousin of mine finished college at 18. Why would it take a statistical miracle for a girl to grow into someone who cares about other children being bullied? Don't most kids over there? Where's the fault in my view of human nature in this particular situation?

Hope I don't come across as offensive but sometimes you sound really cynical...in my opinion that's not a happy way to live. I believe being open-minded and hopeful in the goodness of others (without excessively risking your own safety) makes for a less traumatic journey.

Of course, you're an unapologetic bigot towards homosexuals. Why don't we go around and round up kids that are being raised by single mothers as well!

I can't wait until the old social conservatives in this country die off en mass.