22+ dead, suspect on the run

Price of freedum

https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/lewiston-maine-mass-shooting/?id=104322983

'Murica!

Edit: And yes, it's a white guy.

Assumption: AR-15 style rifle ($50 says I'm right).

Edit edit: Now 22 dead.

Y'all need our Trudeau, he'll confiscate all your trillion of guns, and ruin the country at the same time.

shitposting

Gonna bet he's a right winger, trump fan, born-again xtian who loves God and Country most of all.

He was a good kid. This ain't him. He got involved in them online forums. Don't judge it could happen to you. Yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah

Also; thoughts and prayers.

But that's all you get.

Well, thread is off to a fine start...

Anyway, this is a tragedy. We can argue politics later, but this is just awful. And the suspect is still on the loose!

22 dead. And dozens injured...I feel like too often we neglect the injured folks, many of whom will walk around with a permanent, life-altering injury or severe mental health issues.

It's getting hard to care about this shit, and that's why it's pissing me off. I'm not alarmed when I see it anymore, seriously the first word that went through my head when I heard the news break was "yup". Didn't need nothing more, we know what's coming. We know what's not coming. Been here before.

A firearms instructor who was committed in a mental hospital in the summer, hearing voices....

sad but true.

same here.

Was also in the Army Reserves

So a good christian hearing god speaking to him. /s

Another one, way more to come. Actually do something to fix the gun problem? Nah, let's not. This is fine. We probably just need more guns.

Happens so often it's not tragic anymore, just expected.

Hey, look, it's gun people making everyone safer again.

Stop lying to youselves and everyone else - it's the guns! JFC

Americans would be much better off with that Canadian government. At least we wouldn't go broke for getting the flu or breaking a leg.

Shouldn't shoot people.

Ah, yes, the old "America bad/ white man bad/ God bad/ guns bad/ conservatives bad/ this guy obviously represents everyone who likes any of those things" sentiment.

As a God-loving, gun-having, fellow countryman-loving individual with a moral code, I positively shudder at the thought of myself.

Lololololol

That one got me

@mrbojangles25: Not to pick on you but that's the story every time. It's a tragedy, it just happened, politics later. Meanwhile nothing gets done. When is the time?

It blows my mind how common these tragedies are in America. I feel for those who died while just trying to enjoy their day and those suffering with injuries. It sounds like the shooter had a lot of red flags during his time in the mental institution, why he was allowed to have a gun or be out in public is ridiculous.

Another right-wing Trump loving terrorist. Why am I not surprised?

Sargey for president....

"Okay we should definitely regulate or ban guns."

"Oh but see it's not the guns even though no other developed country has this issue, it's mental health problems!"

"Okay so lets increase funding and support for community health programs and fund programs that encourage mental wellness and therapy to minimize the risk of mentally ill individuals falling off the radar."

"No."

No, you're right.

Political action now, yes.

"Politicizing" can come later, I guess, or whatever you want to call it. I just don't like the resigned, apathetic smartassery so soon after.

But I guess when these things keep happening, genuine apathy is somehow a more appropriate response than disingenuous "thoughts and prayers". That's where we are now.

Oh, I get it. I'd probably be right there commiserating with you if my state of mind was a bit more negative when I read your post.

Dave Chappelle said something along the lines of "every time there's a mass shooting, I have to buy a T-shirt to memorialize it. And I'm running out of closet space".

Well if it was a Bingo game, all those things would be on there. In the center would be the "free" square except it'd be called 'mental illness'.

One really needs to question the integrity of their values if they give the most susceptible people in society the reason to commit harm instead of giving them the resources and resolve to get better.

Being a conservative is fine, sure, but conservatives are also responsible for putting guns into this man's hands and also for legislating to make mental health care unavailable to many.

America isn't bad, it has problems though.

White men aren't bad, but they are pretty much responsible for every major problem that plagues the world.

Guns aren't bad, but they're too easy for bad people to get.

Conservatives aren't bad, but they really don't help things, either.

It's one of those situations where "not all _ are awful people, but all awful people are _". People that claim to be traditional conservatives really need to do some soul searching over these next few months and maybe consider voting for someone other than a Republican. That party doesn't represent you any more.

Yeah, you're talking about bad people. Bad policies. So forth.

For the rest of us law abiding folk, meaning God's law, we'll keep packing arms, following God, being good to each other, defending ourselves, and hoping the rest of you realize the time we're in.

Simple as that.

God doesn't want anyone packing arms.

"The time we're in"? What does that mean? If you mean "the end times", then.....woooooh boy.

I would argue the bolded is why we are "in the times we're in", and not a response to it.

Too many guns.

Too many people thinking God's laws is more important than Man's law (it isn't, btw...). Not to mention God's law is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to open to interpretation to apply to society. Did God make Trump president? Did God say murder is wrong, but killing non-white non-christians isn't murder, so it's OK?

And what exactly are we "defending ourselves" from? Gays and trans? Muslims? The devil? The "other"?

Point is, the bolded is maybe why things are so terrible.

@br0kenrabbit: glad you mentioned his race the media had to ignore the past few mass shootings since it didn't fit that narrative.

Violence, my dude. Violence. Look around. Things are not safe, to say the least. Especially in or near big cities.

The stuff you wrote in the middle is just hyperventilation, so I'll pass.

As for firearms, don't know your situation, but if you have a family, it's on you to protect them. Every day in this country somebody got to get buck wild against a home intruder. Doesn't get televised much, but it happens. A lot. If you're not armed, you're vulnerable, meaning your kids are vulnerable. This is mostly the reason I pack. I won't sit there and see my seed get hurt, if it comes to it. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. It's a responsibility if you're a dad. If you ignore it, that's on you.

As for criminals, they will always get guns. Always. The black market will not just go away. If you take law abiding citizens' guns, then you leave criminals with all the guns. Not good.

@LJS9502_basic: Respectfully, you're wrong. Many examples of using force for self-defense. Here's one.

Exodus 22:2

2 “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed

I don't see guns mentioned.

You know when I hear that there is a deranged psycho on the loose killing people with a gun...

The last thing im thinking is "man... I wish the government would change the law so that I can no longer have the right to have my gun to protect myself"

I actually feel safer knowing I have a gun to protect myself if a psycho shows up with one. Because TBH... don't think a psycho who's willing to go on a murder spree gives a **** that he would illegally be carrying.. he's already crossed the Rubicon with the whole "I'm going to go murder people" thing. Don't think he's worried about catching a gun charge....

Fatal blow means fatal blow, dude, regardless of what weapon you use. They literally didn't have guns when that verse was written.

Right on, brother. At least somebody else around here gets it.

I know right now the obvious attention on this shooting and its causality is gun control, and maybe even the shooter's MAGA affiliation. It was mentioned he was treated for hearing voices. He was a US Army reservist for 18 years.

So, I had a friend deployed overseas, also in Army reserves. He explained to me how they'd be routinely given black label medication for combating malaria, black label being something about its FDA safety rating due to notably higher risks and severity of adverse side effects. One of these risks is essentially irreparable brain damage and deterioration. These drugs were only supposed to be used in cases of extreme emergency to malaria exposure, and they were routinely and casually given these doses for the length of their tours.

Due to the brain damage the drug caused, common symptoms include hallucinations that people suffering for them will experience for life. He said, a common hallucination sounds like the scene from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas, when they're checking into thr hotel on LSD and suddenly they're surrounded by lizard people. Perhaps there's an hidden aspect to the story that's gone unexplored is all I'm trying to say. I just think in a time of heightened finger pointing, and people talking about causality, that at least deserves to be explored as a potential factor.

Not sure why "harder to get guns" meaning psychos will have a harder time to get guns is a hard concept to grasp for you guys. Any specific reason why you don't believe less guns + more help for mental illness will result in less mass shootings?

The reason "harder to get" doesn't work is because harder becomes easier--much easier--when you obtain illegally. The black market in the US is robust, and operating in every state. You can get a heater, or a whole trunk of them, with ID filed no problem, any day of the week. Block psychos from firearms, they go straight to the streets. Problem not solved.

You want change? Go after the black market. There are known search and seizure choke points dotted across the border lines. The one rule of illegality is movement; without it, you have no sells. A sophisticated S&S team, with records on known mules, is what is needed.

But do the bureaucrats do this? No, they don't. Ever. They make a show sometimes of pondering it, make a pointless law here and there that does nothing, and meanwhile, the heat keeps rolling back and forth, back and forth across state lines. Maybe we should start asking ourselves why Washington won't do a thing about the black market.

Nod is correct. The law is only the law, it doesn't make under the table sales go away.

Replace "guns" with "weed".

When weed was illegal and could get you jail time across the country.. you could still find it anywhere... when you buy under the table, no one checks ID, no one is looking at your background. Point is.. only citizens who follow the law would be affected by any of these gun control laws. People with bad intentions will still get a gun, they will still be armed. It will only be the legal abiding citizen who follows the law that unarm themselves.

You forgot 3rd verse.

"but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed." (Exodus 22:3.) These verses mean that if you accidentally kill someone in this case, like in the dark of the night, you're not guilty.

But if you like quoting the Bible here some other verses:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)

"Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:17-21)

Quoting Bible is always fun. You can find all kinds of fun things there.

Of course, because after sunrise you can see the person; you are instructed to then scare them off; if they come at you, you can defend yourself. These were Israelite laws. Just an example. And this is not turn the other cheek. It's defending family, homestead, etc. Same goes for repaying evil. It's talking about vengeance, revenge, etc. Not self-defense. There are situations you let God handle, and others that you yourself must handle.

Yes, quoting the Bible is wonderful. So is actually understanding it.

More examples on the subject matter for you to meditate on, and learn the meaning of (and yes, the sword in question is the fulfilling of prophecy, the appearance, and so on):

Luke 22:35-36 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

Psalm 18:34 He trains my hands for battle; he strengthens my arm to draw a bronze bow.

Psalm 144:1 A psalm of David. Praise the LORD, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle.

2 Samuel 22:35 He trains my hands for war, so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.

You've got some biblical homework to do, my friend.

Oh, no. Not a bible argument.

Then explain why other countries that have gun laws don't have this problem on an almost daily basis. We have examples of it working.

Oh, you mean like Israel? Where they passed laws that disarmed the public, making it nearly impossible to get a gun, so everyone had to give their guns up---then armed men crossed over the border, broke into their homes, took their children and cut their heads off? Even without the latter, countless citizens were shot and killed in the attacks. Entire families. Like that place, you mean?

After disarming their citizens, Israel is now reversing the laws, and is encouraging their citizens to be armed with firearms. This has happened since the Hamas attack.

Yeah, dude. Protecting your home and family is some important stuff.

This isn't about war. You aren't winning against a military. This is about citizens not having to fear leaving their homes. Now, answer the actual question. There are many many countries that do NOT have active shooters constantly killing innocent people. Also, if you're feeling bad for citizens being killed by militias, then where is your outpouring for children in school, people at grocery stores or malls, houses of worship, nightclubs, movie theaters or concert venues? You sound like a hypocrite.

Nonetheless, gun laws work. We have examples. The US was safer when these guns were banned. That's a fact.

What in the world are you talking about. War wasn't even declared yet. It was cluster/localized attacks, formulated on a non-centralized pattern. If every one of those homes had a man in it, or a woman for that matter, holding an AR or a 12g, the situation would have gone MUCH differently. People would still have died, but far, far fewer. Kids would have been saved across the board.

As for not supporting the victims of gun violence on US soil, again, what in the world are you talking about. I'm here advocating for law abiding citizens to arm themselves against this kind of thing. So that, you know, they can actually defend themselves, and not get shot.

It's like the entire previous conversation didn't even take place. Look, dude, I'll repeat it, since it somehow didn't get through the first time. This is the US. We have a HUGE black market here, a very distinct black market for firearms. If you take guns out of the hands of good civilians, you leave them vulnerable to criminals that will absolutely continue to arm themselves off the black market, which is untouched by law.

Never heard of an act of war? You're just flailing trying to change the conversation. Show me where other countries have these problems, like the UK, Germany, Spain, Netherlands, etc.

Good Lord, dude. Of course it's an act of war. A single bullet can be an act of war. Stop derailing the subject at hand.

Focus. Look. Israel turned over their gun laws after the Hamas attacks, and are instructing citizens to arm themselves. Why? Because, obviously, an armed household is effective against--you guessed it!--intruders. They are talking about individual attacks on households. Use your head, dude.

I see you can't back up your opinion so you're trying to move goal posts. You fail when you know your own argument is garbage.

You're not making any sense. You asked about citizens outside US being afraid to leave their homes due to shootings. I gave you a clear example of this, with evidence of the government itself encouraging citizens to arm themselves to protect their homes. Like, dude, you can't answer the question any clearer than that.

No you did not.

They’re not thinking that. They’re thinking,

"man... I wish the government would change the law so that lunatics can no longer have such easy access to guns to be able to indiscriminately slaughter people”.

The fact is, many, if not the majority, of these rampages are done through the legal attainment of firearms…..either using loopholes, at gun shows, or grabbing them out of the family gun rack. Opportunistic killings. And while I agree that criminals will always find ways to get their hands on guns were they truly determined, the black market nevertheless presents a barrier in placing an extra inconvenience to overcome, an inconvenience that may be just enough to prevent an opportunistic murderous impulse to kill that can be easily realized when you’re looking at such ease of access as pulling an AR-15 off your grandparent’s wall, or taking a stroll down to the town’s gun store.

You typically need a connection to the black market, and many of these high school dweeb murderers wouldn’t have the faintest idea where to begin. These shooters are not the hardened criminals who live in the underworld and prosper by knowing the connections of their trade. So I don’t lend much credence to the argument that if you remove guns legally, these shootings would continue as criminals can still get guns.

These killers aren’t criminals. They are….

Hardened criminals who attain illegal guns for their work largely aren’t the demographic that are opportunistically slaughtering innocents. Sure, you still may have a few, but I bet were we to enact heavy restrictions on the legal attainment of firearms, mass shootings would drastically fall off.

Btw, I say this as a gun owner.