Nintendo Direct Pre-E3 Press Conference - Breakdown and Discussion

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sonic_spark

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#1 sonic_spark
Member since 2003 • 6195 Posts

Here's the link TO WATCH THE SHOW IF YOU MISSED IT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9AkPdAWfFjI

Courtesy of IGN's Controller Breakdown

Speaking to fans via a pre-E3 Nintendo Direct video, company president Satoru Iwata showed off the final version of the tablet-like Wii U controller. As expected, it looks just like the one we first saw a few weeks ago courtesy of an image leaked through a (now former) TT Games employee's Twitter account.

Here's that leaked image one more time, for comparison purposes:

And here's the controller again, from this afternoon's Nintendo Direct video presentation:

Yeah, that's definitely a match. Iwata thankfully didn't just hold the controller up for the camera, though, but went into detail regarding its final specifications.

First up, the controller has been given an official name. It's being referred to as the "Wii U GamePad."

Next, support for near-field communication is confirmed. As hinted at in Ubisoft's Rayman Legends trailer ? which leaked to the Internet earlier this year ? the controller will be able to interact with objects placed on its surface to activate a variety of in-game effects. (The square marking on the left side of the controller's surface indicates the placement spot, as many had guessed. Nintendo was quiet on specific examples of NFC, but that's probably just because the company doesn't want to reveal its software line-up until the Tuesday morning press event.

The other mysterious square, placed under the lower-right corner of the screen and sandwiched between the Power button and Battery light? That's the TV Control button ? which, again, is exactly what many people guessed it would be based on the leaked image. Pressing it will control the action of having your TV screen's image jump to the handheld screen for portable play, and vice versa. You can also use the GamePad as a remote control for your normal television viewing.

The analog control sticks are longer, now confirmed to be replacing the shorter, 3DS-style slider pads that the controller originally had in place when revealed at last year's E3. A new detail, though, is that the sticks are now clickable -- an extra button's hidden underneath each one.

The GamePad will also include gyro and motion sensors to pick up player movements.

Wii U Pro Controller

The Wii U console will support a number of input types, including a new Pro controller, which is built in the style of moretraditional gamepads. Check out a screenshot below.

Nintendo President Satoru Iwata announced new Wii U details today during the company's pre-E3 2012 Nintendo Direct briefing. When the system is first powered on, players will see a home screen full of all their friends' Mii characters - a "Mii Universe," as Iwata described it. It will act as a communication hub of sorts, where players can see their friends' Miis gathered around whatever game they're playing.

The Miiverse will also allow players to share in game assets, like screenshots, with each other, and to send each other messages during a game. Players can also send each other hand-written notes, much like in the 3DS's Swapnote application. Your Miiverse will be accessible from Wii U, 3DS, mobile devices and online, and you'll be able to suspend play of any Wii U games to check on your Miiverse whenever you want.

You could've blinked and missed it, but eagle-eyed viewers of this afternoon's Nintendo Direct video presentation might just have seen first footage of an upcoming New Super Mario Bros. game for the Wii U.

Take a look at these screen captures and see for yourself:

President Iwata was discussing the new social networking features of the "Miiverse," which allows you to connect with your friends to pass along messages while gaming. He demonstrated this in-game integration of Mii messaging via a Mario side-scroller that looks a lot like theNew Super Mario Bros. Miitech demo we saw at last year's E3. Only this time the Miis weren't running and jumping alongside Mario ? he was alone in the action, and they popped up to pass along messages of encouragement when a rogue Koopa collided with and killed him.

The video then shifted to a map screen, displayed via the screen on the Wii U GamePad, where more messages were waiting to be read from scattered Mii characters.

And take a look at the messages these Miis are giving. Could they be even more of a teaser?

One of them is saying "OK, being a flying squirrel is WAY more fun than it should be!" Could Mario be gaining a Flying Squirrel Suit in this sequel?

Another says "A baby Yoshi that balloons up to carry you? Too cute!" Again, that seems like another tease for a new and perfectly plausible gameplay element for a Mario game to include.

So could this be our first look at New Super Mario Bros. for Wii U? Last year's New Super Mario Bros. Mii was supposedly just a demo, but Nintendo has said that it serves as the inspiration for the final game that Wii U will be getting. This could very well be it, ladies and gentlemen.

Stay tuned for more details as we get them, and be sure to glue your eyes to your screen to take in Nintendo's Tuesday morning press conference ? that's when this game will likely get its official confirmation.

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AvatarMan96

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#2 AvatarMan96
Member since 2010 • 7324 Posts

Here's the link:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/nintendo_direct_pre_e3_2012/en/index.html

sonic_spark
Watching it now!
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spike6958

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#3 spike6958
Member since 2005 • 6701 Posts
Well...that was....interesting.
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mrfokken

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#4 mrfokken
Member since 2009 • 642 Posts

Well I don't think we saw anything other than some strange social networking that was new. I am rather disappointed that they didn't go with Andriod for their OS.

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muffinduck01

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#5 muffinduck01
Member since 2007 • 317 Posts
Not the most exciting thing, but some great info in that. New tablet controller looks better than the prototype The pro controller looks odd, but it's great that it exists The Miiverse has the potential to be awesome, but we need more info on it. Everything else looks to be pretty unchanged from last years E3. Now i'm excited for the actual games tomorrow and Tuesday.
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GunSmith1_basic

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#6 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts
How about that wiiU pro controller? Looked a lot like the 360 controller to me (with the right stick raised of course). Also I'm curious about that online integration with the hints. Supposedly, kind of like in Demon's Souls?
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Sepewrath

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#7 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30685 Posts
That multitasking was impressive, being able to keep a game on, chat and video chat all at once. And the "call me grandpa" thing was pretty funny. That connection seems like its going to be a disaster though. Has Nintendo ever heard of the internet audience.
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BrunoBRS

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#8 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
so nintendo has a 360 controller now. only with a good Dpad and awkward button placement. also the social features... interesting concept, but i can see it getting really, REALLY creepy REALLY easily. it'll be essentially nintendo's chat roulette.
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superfalcon1234

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#9 superfalcon1234
Member since 2009 • 260 Posts

all i saw was this .....and also it looks like it is coming in 2 colors ..... and one more thing.... there was a metroid game :o i hope they actually make it xD

wiiupro530pxheaderimg513513.jpg

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Sepewrath

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#10 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30685 Posts
I'm surprised about the CC, seems redundant, but some people want to buy it, so they delivered. That's business 101.
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TheFlush

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#11 TheFlush
Member since 2002 • 5965 Posts

The Miiverse reminded me of the Near app on the PSvita a bit. Anyway, it doesn't interest me at all at this moment. It's just a message system, nothing new. I liked the pro controller though. I have a feeling that the Wii U will be the first console in a long long time that I will not buy on day one.

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spike6958

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#12 spike6958
Member since 2005 • 6701 Posts

so nintendo has a 360 controller now. only with a good Dpad and awkward button placement.BrunoBRS

Add very cramped to that list. My hype has dropped considerably after this video. Well lets hope Tuesday manages to restore some of it.

Also, I know this is kinda off topic but did he say the're only going to talk about WiiU on Tuesday, and that they'll talk about the 3DS at another time?

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GunSmith1_basic

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#13 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts
That multitasking was impressive, being able to keep a game on, chat and video chat all at once. And the "call me grandpa" thing was pretty funny. That connection seems like its going to be a disaster though. Has Nintendo ever heard of the internet audience. Sepewrath
good call on the multitasking. It is neat that you can go to the internet during a game like that. Maybe you can do other things like have downloads in the background. That's something I thought the ps3 was going to be able to do.
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BrunoBRS

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#14 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]so nintendo has a 360 controller now. only with a good Dpad and awkward button placement.spike6958

Add very cramped to that list. My hype has dropped considerably after this video. Well lets hope Tuesday manages to restore some of it.

Also, I know this is kinda off topic but did he say the're only going to talk about WiiU on Tuesday, and that they'll talk about the 3DS at another time?

very cramped? it looks like the 360 controller, which is rather comfy. the difference is in the layout on the right side, which is like the difference between the PS3 and the 360 controller, but for the right analog. and yeah they said it.
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spike6958

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#15 spike6958
Member since 2005 • 6701 Posts
[QUOTE="spike6958"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]so nintendo has a 360 controller now. only with a good Dpad and awkward button placement.BrunoBRS

Add very cramped to that list. My hype has dropped considerably after this video. Well lets hope Tuesday manages to restore some of it.

Also, I know this is kinda off topic but did he say the're only going to talk about WiiU on Tuesday, and that they'll talk about the 3DS at another time?

very cramped? it looks like the 360 controller, which is rather comfy. the difference is in the layout on the right side, which is like the difference between the PS3 and the 360 controller, but for the right analog. and yeah they said it.

I have a 360 and I know that isn't cramped but from that image the WiiU Pro looks very cramped, maybe it's just the button layout mixed with the image size, either way it's something I'll have to see in person before I consider buying.
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NaveedLife

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#16 NaveedLife
Member since 2010 • 17179 Posts

So far so good! :)

I must say I am impressed by the tiny bit of info on NSMBWiiU so far. I like the more complex look of the overworld and the throwback look to the ingame graphics. I am actually excited to see it unlike usual with NMSB. THOUGH this is no system seller. Bring me the system seller Nintendo! :P

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wes008

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#17 wes008
Member since 2009 • 802 Posts

I totally want a Wii U now :D Let's just hope Miiverse/NintendoNetwork isn't a flop. That would seriously kill this for me :(

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moltenix

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#18 moltenix
Member since 2008 • 2487 Posts

For the Pro Controller, i'm not sure if I like the placement of the face buttons, seems like the buttons and right stick should swap places like on 360 controller. But who knows, it might work better this way; at least it would be the same layout as the Gamepad where both sticks are on top.

Miiverse looks pretty cool and i'm interested in hearing more about it. Btw, they showed that the plaza thing is what we would see when the console was turned on. Is this for both the TV and Gamepad screen? Or is there different Home screens that we can switch between the two?

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BrunoBRS

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#19 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="spike6958"]

Add very cramped to that list. My hype has dropped considerably after this video. Well lets hope Tuesday manages to restore some of it.

Also, I know this is kinda off topic but did he say the're only going to talk about WiiU on Tuesday, and that they'll talk about the 3DS at another time?

spike6958
very cramped? it looks like the 360 controller, which is rather comfy. the difference is in the layout on the right side, which is like the difference between the PS3 and the 360 controller, but for the right analog. and yeah they said it.

I have a 360 and I know that isn't cramped but from that image the WiiU Pro looks very cramped, maybe it's just the button layout mixed with the image size, either way it's something I'll have to see in person before I consider buying.

look at your 360 controller. now picture the ABXY where the analog is and vice versa :P
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BrunoBRS

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#20 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

So far so good! :)

I must say I am impressed by the tiny bit of info on NSMBWiiU so far. I like the more complex look of the overworld and the throwback look to the ingame graphics. I am actually excited to see it unlike usual with NMSB. THOUGH this is no system seller. Bring me the system seller Nintendo! :P

NaveedLife
you know that that game isn't even technically a game yet, right? it's just easy to explain stuff with mario :P
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osan0

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#21 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17838 Posts
the trailer was cringe worthy :S. other than that....interesting. i hope some of the miiverse stuff can be turned off though (well the messages in game part)....i dont like the idea of messages popping up like that in my game. as well as being a major spoiler problem its also just very intrusive on the experience. i do like the idea of new games popping up with peoples recommendations......though will ninty be honest about this or only let positive messages and rating through? it is advertising basically. developers may not be happy with messages like "this game is complete garbage" spreading accross peoples wiius....even if the game in question is complete garbage. the video conferencing looked neat but i suspect that will be limited to friends only. it being video conferencing will hopefully make people less likely to behave like they do on forums or on a headset. nice to see clickable sticks on a ninty platform finally. its a shame the triggers are not proper triggers though. it would have been really nice to have something like the GC triggers. the new classic controller seems like a completly irrelevant exercise since the wiiu pad can also do everything the CC does. its probably just something to get people that are married to the decade old PS3/360 design to shut up. however the worrying impression i got from that was that ninty were just thinking of the second screen as a social portal. maybe at E3 they will have some great gaming ideas for it...i hope they do. if ninty are planning to treat it as a social device then that would be very dissapointing. still day one though....the fact that it can be my TV controller means its an automatic day one sale :P.
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Sepewrath

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#22 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30685 Posts

For the Pro Controller, i'm not sure if I like the placement of the face buttons, seems like the buttons and right stick should swap places like on 360 controller. But who knows, it might work better this way; at least it would be the same layout as the Gamepad where both sticks are on top.

moltenix
Then they would get sued lol. You cant have the exact same controller layout as your competitor, that's why they are slightly different. I believe he said, that you could view that stuff on either screen.
you know that that game isn't even technically a game yet, right? it's just easy to explain stuff with mario :PBrunoBRS
That is probably the game, very Mario World-ish which would be great. Complete with a squirrel suit and the apparent return of baby Yoshi's. And I agree with you about the CC controller, the distance between the buttons and the analog stick on the 360 controller is about an inch.
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sonic_spark

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#23 sonic_spark
Member since 2003 • 6195 Posts

My only complaint (not having held it yet), is that the D-Pad and face buttons are too far inward. I wish they were more outward akin to the Dreamcast controller. But that's just me.

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JollyGreenOne

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#24 JollyGreenOne
Member since 2011 • 1001 Posts

I thought the presentation was pretty good. I wasn't expecting them to reveal as much as they did, with E3 just a day away. I'm looking forward to their main show even more now, since it's going to be all about the games.

And I'm happy that it looks like they aren't just reusing the same background art/world style from previous New Super Marios.

My little pre E3 prediction is that the game will be called "New Super Mario World". ;)

good call on the multitasking. It is neat that you can go to the internet during a game like that. Maybe you can do other things like have downloads in the background. That's something I thought the ps3 was going to be able to do.GunSmith1_basic
The PS3 can do background downloads while you're doing other things (playing games, listening to music, browsing the internet, etc etc.), as long as you're not playing an online game.

And Iwata has confirmed that Wii U will be able to download content in the background.

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Sepewrath

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#25 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30685 Posts
[QUOTE="osan0"]the trailer was cringe worthy :S. other than that....interesting. i hope some of the miiverse stuff can be turned off though (well the messages in game part)....i dont like the idea of messages popping up like that in my game. as well as being a major spoiler problem its also just very intrusive on the experience. i do like the idea of new games popping up with peoples recommendations......though will ninty be honest about this or only let positive messages and rating through? it is advertising basically. developers may not be happy with messages like "this game is complete garbage" spreading accross peoples wiius....even if the game in question is complete garbage. the video conferencing looked neat but i suspect that will be limited to friends only. it being video conferencing will hopefully make people less likely to behave like they do on forums or on a headset. nice to see clickable sticks on a ninty platform finally. its a shame the triggers are not proper triggers though. it would have been really nice to have something like the GC triggers. .

Well look at it like this, publishers give the media the chance to play and talk about their games. On the media website, they have forums like these, where I can come on here and say "X game sucks, don't buy it" I can do it on Twitter or Facebook, things that anything with an internet browser( i.e. this system) can see. So trying to demand that Nintendo not allow that, would be futile. Now what Nintendo has to be concerned about is the spoilers and people just being jerks for the sake of being jerks. Video chat will probably be available for anyone, but will definitely have parental control options. While videochat may mitigate a little of people being dbags, it wont do much, so I'm sure most will want to just stick to friends and people they know aren't dbags. The clickable sticks, are as pointless as the CC, but just like it, Nintendo has added it to appease people.
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NaveedLife

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#26 NaveedLife
Member since 2010 • 17179 Posts

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

So far so good! :)

I must say I am impressed by the tiny bit of info on NSMBWiiU so far. I like the more complex look of the overworld and the throwback look to the ingame graphics. I am actually excited to see it unlike usual with NMSB. THOUGH this is no system seller. Bring me the system seller Nintendo! :P

BrunoBRS

you know that that game isn't even technically a game yet, right? it's just easy to explain stuff with mario :P

It could be right?

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BrunoBRS

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#27 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]you know that that game isn't even technically a game yet, right? it's just easy to explain stuff with mario :PSepewrath
That is probably the game, very Mario World-ish which would be great. Complete with a squirrel suit and the apparent return of baby Yoshi's. And I agree with you about the CC controller, the distance between the buttons and the analog stick on the 360 controller is about an inch.

i'd rather have them drop the 2.5D with floaty controls. i really can't stand playing NSMB.
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superbuuman

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#28 superbuuman
Member since 2010 • 6400 Posts

Sounds like Nintendo is trying to be facebook?..from watching that clip :P but this just one part of it. Might have missed it...I hope there is an "OFF" switch for those in game Mii pop-up junk & all that Miiverse junk - not into those things. The analog stick is clickable..yay should be no more complain now. :P

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Sepewrath

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#29 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30685 Posts

Sounds like Nintendo is trying to be facebook?..from watching that clip :P but this just one part of it. Might have missed it...I hope there is an "OFF" switch for those in game Mii pop-up junk & all that Miiverse junk - not into those things. :P

superbuuman
I've never seen social features where you cant turn them off. Well except Facebook, they want to install a camera in your room, so they can watch you sleep.
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SMASHKING84

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#30 SMASHKING84
Member since 2009 • 71 Posts

I have just word to descibe this:meh.

it was ok but not as exciting i hoped.

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GunSmith1_basic

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#31 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts
it would have been more exciting if that guy didn't leak the revised WiiU gamepad. But yeah, disappointing. I was expecting to get a general idea of the specs or at least to see the console itself.
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meetroid8

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#32 meetroid8
Member since 2005 • 21152 Posts
Well that was boring, and no 3DS at the E3 conference really sucks.
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SMASHKING84

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#33 SMASHKING84
Member since 2009 • 71 Posts

it would have been more exciting if that guy didn't leak the revised WiiU gamepad. But yeah, disappointing. I was expecting to get a general idea of the specs or at least to see the console itself.GunSmith1_basic

This and i wish they had rehashed less footage from last year's e3 since 99% of those games aren't real (nsmb mii being the one real game)

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Pwnsweet

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#34 Pwnsweet
Member since 2012 • 26 Posts
Highlight of the pre-E3 briefing: http://youtu.be/5MA4b5eVvY4
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ANIMEguy10034

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#35 ANIMEguy10034
Member since 2008 • 4955 Posts

I think the Pro Controller is mainly for 4 player multiplayer.

and

original.jpg

:lol:

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trugs26

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#36 trugs26
Member since 2004 • 7539 Posts

it would have been more exciting if that guy didn't leak the revised WiiU gamepad. But yeah, disappointing. I was expecting to get a general idea of the specs or at least to see the console itself.GunSmith1_basic

A bit of a silly expectation, considering that Nintendo has never released specs, especially not at a pre e3 thing. To get an indication of specs, you'll have to go off the software they show at their conference.

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Sepewrath

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#37 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30685 Posts

A bit of a silly expectation, considering that Nintendo has never released specs, especially not at a pre e3 thing. To get an indication of specs, you'll have to go off the software they show at their conference.

trugs26
Pretty much, their never going to tell you the specs, people might as well get over it. This isn't anything new from them.
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moltenix

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#38 moltenix
Member since 2008 • 2487 Posts

Well that was boring, and no 3DS at the E3 conference really sucks.meetroid8

Wait.. WHAT?!

They're not showing any 3DS stuff on Tuesday?! :evil:

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BrunoBRS

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#39 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

Sounds like Nintendo is trying to be facebook?..from watching that clip :P but this just one part of it. Might have missed it...I hope there is an "OFF" switch for those in game Mii pop-up junk & all that Miiverse junk - not into those things. The analog stick is clickable..yay should be no more complain now. :P

superbuuman

there's an icon on the bottom right of the screen with a bunch of tiny squares, a la the wii's menu. so clicking it probably sets it to "default mode".

here it is:

VS9uy.png

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meetroid8

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#40 meetroid8
Member since 2005 • 21152 Posts

[QUOTE="meetroid8"]Well that was boring, and no 3DS at the E3 conference really sucks.moltenix

Wait.. WHAT?!

They're not showing any 3DS stuff on Tuesday?! :evil:

I'm sure it will be mentioned, but the focus is going to be on WiiU software. I was much more interested in seeing more of Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario 3D, etc than WiiU though.
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BrunoBRS

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#41 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
[QUOTE="moltenix"]

[QUOTE="meetroid8"]Well that was boring, and no 3DS at the E3 conference really sucks.meetroid8

Wait.. WHAT?!

They're not showing any 3DS stuff on Tuesday?! :evil:

I'm sure it will be mentioned, but the focus is going to be on WiiU software. I was much more interested in seeing more of Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario 3D, etc than WiiU though.

they still have a roundtable and a "software showcasing" to show 3DS stuff. the wii u is in dire need of attention, as your lack of interest shows :P
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moltenix

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#42 moltenix
Member since 2008 • 2487 Posts

I'm not exactly sold on the WiiU yet so I suppose it's better for them to focus heavily on Wii U games at the main conference.

Still, I was really excited to see lots of stuff on 3DS games like Paper Mario, Animal Crossing plus a bunch of new announcements. Hopefully that Software Showcase on Wedneday isn't a disappointment and doesn't focus too much on just Wii U games.

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Sepewrath

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#43 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30685 Posts
They have a software show on Wednesday, since the Wii U games are being shown at the conference, that is where the 3DS stuff is likely to be shown. I doubt they would have another show just to show more/the same Wii U stuff.
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NaveedLife

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#44 NaveedLife
Member since 2010 • 17179 Posts

I really hope the software for WiiU blows me away, because so far they are doing a tremendous job of showcasing the WiiU's capabilities. Very smart move in every aspect so far.

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Basinboy

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#45 Basinboy
Member since 2003 • 14498 Posts

The direct was fine, somewhat dull but all the news was good. The biggest surprise is Nintendo opted to go for a 2-controller approach which makes me wonder how developers are going to treat the Wii-mote (seems like it's going to hit the backburner). Now they just need a solid online network and they're set. The only thing that could undermine Nintendo's momentum at this point are the system specs and how they stack up to the competition (as well as any deviations to the console control standard they take). I doubt Ninty is going to release any hard details on what they're packing under the hood.

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ShuichiChamp24

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#46 ShuichiChamp24
Member since 2009 • 5014 Posts

there's an icon on the bottom right of the screen with a bunch of tiny squares, a la the wii's menu. so clicking it probably sets it to "default mode".

here it is:

BrunoBRS

That botton probably is the one that switches the screens between the controler menu and the one on the t.v

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bonesawisready5

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#47 bonesawisready5
Member since 2011 • 4971 Posts
Yea the pre-E3 conference blew me away. They have my money waiting for them
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BrunoBRS

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#48 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]there's an icon on the bottom right of the screen with a bunch of tiny squares, a la the wii's menu. so clicking it probably sets it to "default mode".

here it is:

ShuichiChamp24

That botton probably is the one that switches the screens between the controler menu and the one on the t.v

that doesn't make sense, given how the button looks like. BTW, i forget. does the wii u tablet thingy have an IR pointer? that menu seems heavily pointer based :P
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Rod90

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#49 Rod90
Member since 2008 • 7269 Posts
[QUOTE="ShuichiChamp24"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]there's an icon on the bottom right of the screen with a bunch of tiny squares, a la the wii's menu. so clicking it probably sets it to "default mode".

here it is:

BrunoBRS

That botton probably is the one that switches the screens between the controler menu and the one on the t.v

that doesn't make sense, given how the button looks like. BTW, i forget. does the wii u tablet thingy have an IR pointer? that menu seems heavily pointer based :P

Good question. I don't think so, I guess you'll just have to use the remote for that.
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muffinduck01

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#50 muffinduck01
Member since 2007 • 317 Posts
Doubt it. I'm guessing the menu will also appear on the touch screen, so you can choose whatever and scroll around that way. The sensor bar is on top the TV as well, so I guess they're supporting both?