Japanese gamers not happy with Iwata's remarks

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

Iwata stated that Japanese find western games too difficult or don't care to invest the time in trying to attempt the challenges. He mentions how the Western gamers like a challenge. All this time I was thinking the little helps in the newer games were meant for children, but are probably for the Japanese gamers too. I've been searching where I read that since I did see it on two Nintendo gamer sites but can't find it know. Super Mario Wii U was so easy and I never used Luigi's help.

Since I've got back into Super Mario Sunshine I can see how difficult the game is in certain parts and I can't go forward unless I beat those levels, where as some levels are ridiculously easy. Not giving up through. When Shadow Mario steals my water tank and I have to go through a block course to get to a shine spite it is really hard.

#2 Posted by bonesawisready5 (4940 posts) -

1. They were taken out of context

2. It was  Miyamoto who said it.

#3 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

Sorry Iwata..

direct quote..

Ive been making action games for some 30 years, and Ive been thinking about the difference evident in how their popularity has been gradually declining in Japan whilst in America it has been maintained. The issue is that Japanese who cannot overcome the level of difficulty in an action game no longer want to play them. This perception then spreads to all games as a whole, and people avoid them because they see them as difficult.

In the case of America, there are a lot more people who enjoy a challenge and will stick with it for you and try to overcome the initial hurdle. Yes, its action games which really demand a certain level of skill. Right, some players just enjoy playing, some prefer to finish it, and some prefer greater challenge. People looking for a challenge will dismiss an easily cleared game as easy. But by making things too difficult, the people who just want to play get driven off. I always wanted to accommodate both types.

How was this taken out of context?

#4 Posted by Kaze_no_Mirai (11595 posts) -
Not saying you're lying, but do you have a link to where it says Japanese gamers are upset with the comments? I'd like to read it.
#5 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

if you search that 'Miyamoto says Japanese gamers find wii u games too hard' it will take you to My Nintendo News.com easier than going to the site and trying to find article... I read it elsewhere the other day on another site too but can't remember. I read a buttload of gaming sites. I may make mistakes now and then but I am a very truthful woman.

#6 Posted by bonesawisready5 (4940 posts) -

Sorry Iwata..

direct quote..

Ive been making action games for some 30 years, and Ive been thinking about the difference evident in how their popularity has been gradually declining in Japan whilst in America it has been maintained. The issue is that Japanese who cannot overcome the level of difficulty in an action game no longer want to play them. This perception then spreads to all games as a whole, and people avoid them because they see them as difficult.

In the case of America, there are a lot more people who enjoy a challenge and will stick with it for you and try to overcome the initial hurdle. Yes, its action games which really demand a certain level of skill. Right, some players just enjoy playing, some prefer to finish it, and some prefer greater challenge. People looking for a challenge will dismiss an easily cleared game as easy. But by making things too difficult, the people who just want to play get driven off. I always wanted to accommodate both types.

How was this taken out of context?

calway55

It isn't an insulting statement. He just says a region of people don't like hard games all the time. Action games, which are seen as "hard" by some because many can't properly convey how to control things in 3D or with a lot of commands, etc, have been on a sales decline in Japan for years with the exception of Monster Hunter.

He even says he wants to accommodate both players, those that want easier games and those that want harder ones. People are taking it out of context, acting like he's bashing Japanese players. If he was bashing them why would he try to "accommodate both types"? Why would he acknowledge that difficult games can turn players away? If the Japanese market shows that the region generally buys/prefers games that aren't that complex or hard, then he's right. He isn't saying anything offensive, its everyone else who thinks that saying they prefer "easier" games is some of sort of insult and makes them "less than". He said no such thing.

Not to mention that the quote has yet to be properly translated.

#7 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

Now do a search how"japanese nintendo players are upset with Miyamoto"

#8 Posted by Kaze_no_Mirai (11595 posts) -
Find a link, you're the one who created the topic making a claim without a link. I googled what you said and only got articles about the original quote with one saying something about "Japanese gamers respond to Miyamoto" which was a link to a Gamefaqs thread... which was locked. That doesn't bode too well for the authenticity of the claim.
#9 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

Had to switch from Mozilla to Internet Explorer just to copy and paste and my wifi keep crapping out on me. Now you want a link. Can't figure that out as I'm back on Mozilla. Sorry..one quick search and you're their. It isn't like you have to get up out of your chair and change a channel on a tv. You could also take my word for it. I get more info about wii u on that site. Check it out.

#10 Posted by spike6958 (5030 posts) -
Kinda funny that they would say this, when back in the NES/SNES days, they made games easier for western gamer's because they where "too hard" for us.
#11 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

Yes, made Doki, Doki Panic our Mario 2 and it got so popular that Japan wanted that version too. I think the gamer in Japan has changed. I think it is the hardcore gamer who has stayed loyal to the harder games, but I guess it is the Western gamers who stick around for the challenge.

#12 Posted by meetroid8 (21140 posts) -
He was pretty specifically referring to 3d action games, which don't perform nearly as well in Japan as they do in other parts of the world.
#13 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

LikeMario 64, Super Mario Sunshine,Galaxy games, Zelda?

#14 Posted by meetroid8 (21140 posts) -

LikeMario 64, Super Mario Sunshine,Galaxy games, Zelda?

calway55
No, Mario isn't an action game. Zelda isn't really either.
#15 Posted by lazyathew (3748 posts) -

LikeMario 64, Super Mario Sunshine,Galaxy games, Zelda?

calway55

By action games people generally mean games that focus on action. Mario is a platformer, and Zelda is adventure. Though they both do have action.

Games that come to my mind are Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden. Actually no first party Nintendo games come to mind... So what games are Iwata refering to I wonder?

#16 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

I have to disagree with you, if you reread what Miyamoto said he never mentioned 3d just hard games in general. I've been playing since 87' and the games are getting easier in my opionion.

#17 Posted by lazyathew (3748 posts) -

I have to disagree with you, if you reread what Miyamoto said he never mentioned 3d just hard games in general. I've been playing since 87' and the games are getting easier in my opionion.

calway55

Actually yeah, re reading the quote you put. I guess it implies a more broad definition of action. Definitley not just 3D action either. "I've been making action games for 30 years." 

So he probably is refering to Mario, Zelda, Metroid and any game that requires quick reflexes. Actually Zelda doesn't really require very quick reflexes, but I guess that's because they made it so much easier. It used to have pretty tough action.

#18 Posted by Kaze_no_Mirai (11595 posts) -

Had to switch from Mozilla to Internet Explorer just to copy and paste and my wifi keep crapping out on me. Now you want a link. Can't figure that out as I'm back on Mozilla. Sorry..one quick search and you're their. It isn't like you have to get up out of your chair and change a channel on a tv. You could also take my word for it. I get more info about wii u on that site. Check it out.

calway55
How can you not "figure it out" ? :? I did the search and nothing came up, its nothing like getting up from my chair to change the TV because I already searched and nothing came up and you refuse to provide a link
#19 Posted by MayorJohnny (7838 posts) -

Iwata stated that Japanese find western games too difficult or don't care to invest the time in trying to attempt the challenges. He mentions how the Western gamers like a challenge. All this time I was thinking the little helps in the newer games were meant for children, but are probably for the Japanese gamers too. I've been searching where I read that since I did see it on two Nintendo gamer sites but can't find it know. Super Mario Wii U was so easy and I never used Luigi's help.

Since I've got back into Super Mario Sunshine I can see how difficult the game is in certain parts and I can't go forward unless I beat those levels, where as some levels are ridiculously easy. Not giving up through. When Shadow Mario steals my water tank and I have to go through a block course to get to a shine spite it is really hard.

calway55
So they really upset? :P I really like your Toadette icon! :D
#20 Posted by Kaze_no_Mirai (11595 posts) -
Kinda funny that they would say this, when back in the NES/SNES days, they made games easier for western gamer's because they where "too hard" for us.spike6958
That's so true. I honestly find it so weird that he would actually say something like that. Like the Marios Bros 2 example. Was Mario Bros 2 really that hard? I think as a kid I beat that one way before I beat the USA version.
#21 Posted by lazyathew (3748 posts) -

[QUOTE="spike6958"]Kinda funny that they would say this, when back in the NES/SNES days, they made games easier for western gamer's because they where "too hard" for us.Kaze_no_Mirai
That's so true. I honestly find it so weird that he would actually say something like that. Like the Marios Bros 2 example. Was Mario Bros 2 really that hard? I think as a kid I beat that one way before I beat the USA version.

I think a lot of people miss the point as to why we didn't get their Super mario 2 though. I don't think it's because it's "too hard for americans". It was too hard in general. I think they took into account complaints of Japanese gamers and figured they'd get the same reaction here. So they didn't bring it over.

I could be wrong on that though. 

If you beat that as a kid. Congratulations, You are very skilled at Mario.

#22 Posted by Kaze_no_Mirai (11595 posts) -
I think a lot of people miss the point as to why we didn't get their Super mario 2 though. I don't think it's because it's "too hard for americans". It was too hard in general. I think they took into account complaints of Japanese gamers and figured they'd get the same reaction here. So they didn't bring it over.

I could be wrong on that though. 

If you beat that as a kid. Congratulations, You are very skilled at Mario.

lazyathew
Thats probably true, I mean, it does make sense when you say it like that. As for Mario, not really :P I was able to beat the Japanese Mario Bros 2 when I was around 10 but I could never beat the USA version it was strange. I got around to beating the USA one only a few years ago.
#23 Posted by lazyathew (3748 posts) -

[QUOTE="lazyathew"]I think a lot of people miss the point as to why we didn't get their Super mario 2 though. I don't think it's because it's "too hard for americans". It was too hard in general. I think they took into account complaints of Japanese gamers and figured they'd get the same reaction here. So they didn't bring it over.

I could be wrong on that though. 

If you beat that as a kid. Congratulations, You are very skilled at Mario.

Kaze_no_Mirai

Thats probably true, I mean, it does make sense when you say it like that. As for Mario, not really :P I was able to beat the Japanese Mario Bros 2 when I was around 10 but I could never beat the USA version it was strange. I got around to beating the USA one only a few years ago.

 

Well the US Mario 2 is a different kind of game then traditional Mario. Most would say US Mario 2 is much easier, but I guess you're just better at traditional Mario. You are the first person I have seen to say Japanese Mario 2 is easier though, lol.

Actually I am kind of unusual like that too. I think the Mega Man games, (Except MM1) and the original NES Ninja Gaiden are much easier then the original NES Mario. I actually never beat the original NES Mario. I've never beated Ninja Gaiden fairly either, but I did get to the final boss. I needed save states to beat it though. I could probably beat Mario with save states too I just haven't tried. But getting to last boss in Ninja Gaiden is much easier then getting to the last boss in Mario for me.

#24 Posted by Kaze_no_Mirai (11595 posts) -
Actually I am kind of unusual like that too. I think the Mega Man games, (Except MM1) and the original NES Ninja Gaiden are much easier then the original NES Mario. I actually never beat the original NES Mario. I've never beated Ninja Gaiden fairly either, but I did get to the final boss. I needed save states to beat it though. I could probably beat Mario with save states too I just haven't tried. But getting to last boss in Ninja Gaiden is much easier then getting to the last boss in Mario for me.lazyathew
Oh man, Mega Man is tough for me. I've only recently started beating them and only one 3DS and managed to get through about half way without save states but couldn't go on :P I've beaten 1, 2, and 3. I tried the Gameboy Mega Man but couldn't even get through one level. :P Nija Gaiden I find more tolerable in difficulty :P
#25 Posted by drekula2 (2959 posts) -
In this day and age, there should be choices of difficulty for most games.
#26 Posted by Gargus (2147 posts) -

Now do a search how"japanese nintendo players are upset with Miyamoto"

calway55

You made this thread, you made claims, its your job to provide proof to back it up.

#27 Posted by superbuuman (3169 posts) -

Eh, I tend to think games nowadays are being watered down & made too easy..only some are challenging & very few are considered hard. If you don't have time to master the game then don't complain about it being too hard, just say you don't have time...already have save points & easier to get lives (newer Mario games)...its lame that Nintendo made an invincible character for Luigi U (hope it doesn't become common)...might as well not play at all. :P

#28 Posted by SoAmazingBaby (2807 posts) -
Arent japanese games generally much harder?
#29 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

mynintendonews.com/2013/07/14/miyamoto-says-japanese-gamers-are...

never did a link here not sure if this will work

All I did in any browser is type in Miyamoto says Japanese gamers say that Nintendo games are too hard. Try that if this doesn't work for yo

#30 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

[QUOTE="calway55"]

Had to switch from Mozilla to Internet Explorer just to copy and paste and my wifi keep crapping out on me. Now you want a link. Can't figure that out as I'm back on Mozilla. Sorry..one quick search and you're their. It isn't like you have to get up out of your chair and change a channel on a tv. You could also take my word for it. I get more info about wii u on that site. Check it out.

Kaze_no_Mirai

How can you not "figure it out" ? :? I did the search and nothing came up, its nothing like getting up from my chair to change the TV because I already searched and nothing came up and you refuse to provide a link

If you look at the third message in this thread I copied and pasted the whole quote from Miyamoto. What is the problem?

How come you can't do a search? Hense the get up and change the channel joke. If gamespots search is locked go to Mynintendonews.com

Try Wii u daily or Nintendolife

Ign or Destructoid

I just did my search just now from Google...and typed Miyamoto says Japanese gamers say Nintendo games are too hard. You'll get the article that Japanese are quitters. Click on the mynintendo.com one not the gamespot one.

#31 Posted by Kaze_no_Mirai (11595 posts) -

[QUOTE="Kaze_no_Mirai"][QUOTE="calway55"]

Had to switch from Mozilla to Internet Explorer just to copy and paste and my wifi keep crapping out on me. Now you want a link. Can't figure that out as I'm back on Mozilla. Sorry..one quick search and you're their. It isn't like you have to get up out of your chair and change a channel on a tv. You could also take my word for it. I get more info about wii u on that site. Check it out.

calway55

How can you not "figure it out" ? :? I did the search and nothing came up, its nothing like getting up from my chair to change the TV because I already searched and nothing came up and you refuse to provide a link

If you look at the third message in this thread I copied and pasted the whole quote from Miyamoto. What is the problem?

How come you can't do a search? Hense the get up and change the channel joke. If gamespots search is locked go to Mynintendonews.com

Try Wii u daily or Nintendolife

Ign or Destructoid

I just did my search just now from Google...and typed Miyamoto says Japanese gamers say Nintendo games are too hard. You'll get the article that Japanese are quitters. Click on the mynintendo.com one not the gamespot one.

I don't want that one. I've read that one. I want the one which you claim that Japanese people are upset over the comments made by Miyamoto. I find it absurd that you can copy and paste a Miyamoto quote but can not copy and paste a link. And again. I've searched for that Japense people being upset and nothing comes out why are you so dense?
#32 Posted by calway55 (257 posts) -

If I couldn't do a search on My nintendonews.com I wouldn't be calling someone else dense. You seem rude to me.

Shigeru Miyamoto angered a number of Japanese gamers when he said that they have a tendency to avoid western action titles as they found them too challenging. Miyamoto went on to say that he believes that American gamers enjoy a challenge and arent put off by difficult games. Japanese gamers took to 4Gamer to vent their frustrations at Miyamotos words. Heres a sample of some of the gamers opinions on the matter.

Yes, yes. Its all the fault of the Japanese.

The reason they declined was because of idiots like this blaming everything on their customers.

Its because they only know how to make games for children now.

Nintendo, the reason youve declined is because of your endless remakes, thats all.

Certainly, you need perseverance to play on the Wii U. Holding that horribly heavy pad was just too much for me.

I suppose all this is why pay-to-win social games are all the rage now.

If you are a kid with no money but lots of free time taking your time on a difficult game makes sense, but if you are an adult with money but no free time the opposite is true.

Games recently are too simple. You should die if you make one slight mistake.

Who wants to play a game where if you miss one pixel on the screen it is an instant game over.

Now things are split between lots of casuals and a few hardcore gamers. You cant meet their requirements at the same time.

The gaming audience has aged and no longer has time for the hassle of difficult action games.

People talk like difficulty determines how much fun a game is. It is the other way around really a game has to be fun to make you keep playing and enjoying the challenge.

The real issue is not the difficulty but the level of effort you have to consider investing to overcome a given level of difficulty.

Japanese just get bored of them more easily.

I seem to recall a lot of western games used to be very difficult. Then they got dumbed down and sold more as a result. Really I think the Japanese games arent selling because of a lack of ideas though.

Wait, if what he is saying about Japanese being quitters is true how come Monster Hunter is so popular still? Dont overseas players moan about it being too difficult?

I dont get him at all. Hes blaming the fact their action games sell like hot cakes in America but not in Japan on the Japanese? Blaming your customers is hardly a good business strategy

Well, you rarely see western games so difficult nobody can complete them

Gaming demographics just differ in the US and Japan, and the ones in the US tend to be more committed?

Games are supposed to be fun. Playing them neednt be treated as an act of self-mortification.

#33 Posted by meetroid8 (21140 posts) -

[QUOTE="Kaze_no_Mirai"][QUOTE="calway55"]

Had to switch from Mozilla to Internet Explorer just to copy and paste and my wifi keep crapping out on me. Now you want a link. Can't figure that out as I'm back on Mozilla. Sorry..one quick search and you're their. It isn't like you have to get up out of your chair and change a channel on a tv. You could also take my word for it. I get more info about wii u on that site. Check it out.

calway55

How can you not "figure it out" ? :? I did the search and nothing came up, its nothing like getting up from my chair to change the TV because I already searched and nothing came up and you refuse to provide a link

If you look at the third message in this thread I copied and pasted the whole quote from Miyamoto. What is the problem?

How come you can't do a search? Hense the get up and change the channel joke. If gamespots search is locked go to Mynintendonews.com

Try Wii u daily or Nintendolife

Ign or Destructoid

I just did my search just now from Google...and typed Miyamoto says Japanese gamers say Nintendo games are too hard. You'll get the article that Japanese are quitters. Click on the mynintendo.com one not the gamespot one.

We know what Miyamoto said, we want proof that Japanese gamers are upset about it. It makes sense that they would be, but I haven't actually heard anything about anyone being upset over these comments.

#34 Posted by Kaze_no_Mirai (11595 posts) -
We know what Miyamoto said, we want proof that Japanese gamers are upset about it. It makes sense that they would be, but I haven't actually heard anything about anyone being upset over these comments.meetroid8
Pretty much all of this. I feel like I may be coming off as an a** and I don't mean that. I would also like to mention that I am sure that those comments upset some Japanese people the only reason I asked for a link is because it seemed like something interesting to read and see if there were any comments from Japanese people. Was hoping to see if some people looked at what 2chan (The Japanese original board the the western one :P) had to say.
#35 Posted by nintendoboy16 (27841 posts) -
I knew this would happen, Shiggy's getting to be on gamer's s***lists the same way many movie actors who made great stuff get crap for things they said. TC, mind editing your title replacing Iwata's name to Miyamoto's? Just a heads up