Used games are a developers hell?

Soo as you know, developers hate customers buying used/preowned games as they don't receive a penny form those sales. The game shops are taking the full profit for themselves. Soo as you may know this has promopted developers to change thier tactics. To stop people buying preowened games and make some money back, they have implemented online codes into new games which can only be used once. This means if you buy the game pre-owned you have to buy an online code to actually get online. which is normally priced around £7.99. This effects me as i buy most of my games from ebay and the codes have already been used. Soo if i want to play online on ertain games, i am going to have a buy a code which i do not wan too.

I was also reading an article today that Capcom are thinking about creating a save system on their new releases which only allows you to save once, ever, on that actual cartridge. So you have no choice but buy a brand new game unless you want to play from the previous owners save. This ain't good if they have finished the game right? As you can't delete the save.

Soo what im proposing is that game shops should have to give a percentage of their pre-owened sales to the developers/publishers. Say 30%. This should keep them happy as they are are getting an income from preowned games and should stop them thinking of new ways to suck more money from us.

What do you think?

This system has been out on PC for a decade. Big whoop, devs are any anymore off used sales. Which they should be.

Soo if it's been out on Pc for 10 years why hasn't it been transfered over to the current gen of games? Obviously game shops would fight to the death, too keep anything like this from happening

no other opinions?

They got a percent of the game when it first came out. I do not see them getting a huge amount more even if they do get a percent of the used game sells.

Having to use the save data with the system is stupid. I lost count of the times I lost my save data. I have some times deleted my data and then come back later to start from the start.

It would also hurt renting games which I do all the time.

The whole used games thing is about getting more money using the pitty us con.

The whole used games thing is about getting more money using the pitty us con.wiouds

As for your suggestion, the only way that would happen would be if it was made illegal to sell used games without the publisher's permission, which is what they want and what we should resist.

It doesn't bother me, really. Publishers want to carve out their profits as well as they can every time the game is bought.

Game shops shouldn't have to give one cent to the developers. They got their money fair and square when the used games was bought the fist time, after that it's no longer in any way theirs. As far as their attempts to keep us from buying used, I never plan on buying a game like that again (I only did once). They're taking away value from the game, so there's no way I'm paying full price for that.

I was also reading an article today that Capcom are thinking about creating a save system on their new releases which only allows you to save once, ever, on that actual cartridge. So you have no choice but buy a brand new game unless you want to play from the previous owners save. This ain't good if they have finished the game right? As you can't delete the save.

kingkarl123

By "saving once," does it refer to the game only having one save file that's undeletable?

That single, undeletable save file thing sounds terrible. I want to be able to play my games more then once!

The concept of forwarding royalties for used games back to the developers is incredibly flawed because various sellers-- eBay, vendors at conventions, mom-n-pop game stores, etc-- likely won't conform. There really is no cost-effective way to track the sale of used games, especially if the game's been out of print for years. Moreover, if the gaming industry really wanted people to buy more new merchandise, they would lower the SRP for their wares. The music industry made significant price cuts for CDs and it helped combat piracy to an extent. With half-finished products for $60 accompanied by $30+ worth of DLC to make your game 'complete' (sometimes, said DLC is already on the disc), the thrice-damned business model for this generation goes far beyond greed itself. Publishers like Activision and Capcom are notorious for this. So, they can either lower the cost of their games, make more complete products, or just deal with people buying their products used. The latter of which is something which anyone who has a problem with used game sales should do as well. Sorry to say, but in today's world of $50-60 non-refundable letdowns, some devs/publishers deserve to lose sales. The standards for what counts as a passable game in the eyes of the general populace have sunk so abysmally low that it's disgusting to think about.

If used games went away, this would also prompt the developers/publishers to keep the games at their original price for longer. Something I definitely wouldn't like.

I generally will wait until price drops happen before I purchase new. With extended full-price timeframes, this would really hurt me as a gamer. However, I can't blame the publishers for trying to max out their profits, I would do the same thing!

If used games went away, this would also prompt the developers/publishers to keep the games at their original price for longer. Something I definitely wouldn't like.

I generally will wait until price drops happen before I purchase new. With extended full-price timeframes, this would really hurt me as a gamer. However, I can't blame the publishers for trying to max out their profits, I would do the same thing!

Samslayer

There is a big difference between :

1. We have to do something, used games are killing us

or

2. We are doing ok, but we would like to make an extra 20 million

Money is good to have but not at the expense of consumer rights and convenience.

Part of the allure of console gaming is that if I didn't like a game, I can sell it.

So now I am forced to pay full price for something, even if I played it a few hours and hated it.

This goes against my interests, therefor I am against it, and will penalize developers by voting with my wallet.

In the end, developers will have to tread very carefully.

If you think I'm paying $60 for a game I can't resell, you better think again.

The more you companies act like jerks, the more I become a jerk and a tightwad.

If you want my money you have to bend to my lifestyle and my thinking.

You don't have to bullwhip us to give you money.

I give money to plenty of companies, out of loyalty and respect.

These companies typically earn my loyalty and respect by serving THE CUSTOMER FIRST, before themselves.

I can easily afford to spend $100 on DLC's, merch, etc, but I usually don't because you people try to FORCE me.

Companies like Valve and CCP, I will be forever loyal to and buy their stuff, because they don't try to milk me and they serve their customers first.

Companies like EA, Activision, etc. I buy stuff from these companies because I have no choice.

I will always look for ways to screw them out of money, because they look for ways to milk me.

You get more bees with honey than vinegar.

[QUOTE="Samslayer"]

If used games went away, this would also prompt the developers/publishers to keep the games at their original price for longer. Something I definitely wouldn't like.

I generally will wait until price drops happen before I purchase new. With extended full-price timeframes, this would really hurt me as a gamer. However, I can't blame the publishers for trying to max out their profits, I would do the same thing!

Archangel3371

I'm not saying that we wouldn't see price drops those are inevitable, I'm simply saying it would delay the price drops.

[QUOTE="Archangel3371"][QUOTE="Samslayer"]

If used games went away, this would also prompt the developers/publishers to keep the games at their original price for longer. Something I definitely wouldn't like.

I generally will wait until price drops happen before I purchase new. With extended full-price timeframes, this would really hurt me as a gamer. However, I can't blame the publishers for trying to max out their profits, I would do the same thing!

Samslayer

I'm not saying that we wouldn't see price drops those are inevitable, I'm simply saying it would delay the price drops.

They're still letting us save money, if you buy used then buy the code, a lot of times you're still saving money over buying new if the game has been out for a while.

[QUOTE="Samslayer"]

[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]I don't think this has an impact on price drops for new games. If the games aren't selling then the price drops irregardless of the used game market.Archangel3371

I'm not saying that we wouldn't see price drops those are inevitable, I'm simply saying it would delay the price drops.

no piracy is a developers hell

It is just as big as deal as piracy. To the devs a person who buys a game used is no different than a pirate

They are obviously affected by used games, they have to do something.LustForSoul

To be honest I think it's just silly, you don't hear companies such as Volvo, Mitsubishi, Panasonic etc. complain when people buy used cars or used furniture.Treflis

Companies like EA, Activision, etc. I buy stuff from these companies because I have no choice.

ZombieKiller7

[QUOTE="Treflis"]To be honest I think it's just silly, you don't hear companies such as Volvo, Mitsubishi, Panasonic etc. complain when people buy used cars or used furniture.Teufelhuhn

Gamestop buys the game back from you for (I don't know exactly) $30 and then sells it again at $55. So your game's value halved as soon as you opened it.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="Treflis"]To be honest I think it's just silly, you don't hear companies such as Volvo, Mitsubishi, Panasonic etc. complain when people buy used cars or used furniture.LongZhiZi

Gamestop buys the game back from you for (I don't know exactly) $30 and then sells it again at $55. So your game's value halved as soon as you opened it.

It's not that the developers are trying to make more from gamers, but the fact that used game sales are larger than new game sales. Gamestop released it's earnings statements showing that:

Used game products accounted for 21.8% of total net sales and 44.2% of gross profit.Gamestop Records Record Earnings

As noted earlier, Gamestop buys your games from you cheap and sells them back at $5 less than a new game and I have seen them offer the used game over the new game to customers, especially unknowing parents. This is where publishers and developers have a problem. When the sale of new games drops with a rise of used game sales making record earnings, the publishers get upset and with good reason.

I don't know how many of you have ever spoke with a developer (I have interviewed both Bo Andersson of GRIN and John Sonedecker formely of RSE, now CEO of Blackfoot Studios), but they will tell you that is their biggest gripe about used game sales is the fact that stores push used game sales over new game sales.

Now as to why publishers charge $60 for games that are unfinished, you have no one to blame but yourselves as you keep buying them. Also remember that they are trying to recoup the extra charge due to royalties to publish games for consoles. Red Orchestra 2 is going to be sold for $40 on the PC. No royalties involved compared to MS, Sony and Nintendo wanting $10 per unit in order to allow the right to have said game on each console (in the case of multiplats it becomes expensive). Now this isn't a console vs. PC war at all, just a cold hard fact.

Gamers have no one to blame but themselves for how publishers do business as they are the ones that buy the games. If you do not a DLC model for extra content, stop buying the games that offer it. Once such games stop selling, they will drop said business model, but right now, y'all make it profitable. If you do not to pay extra for the ability to play a game online. I have seen where publishers charge $10 to get an online code costing you an extra $5 over the original price of new so how does that become cheaper buying a used game?

GameStop Reports Record Fiscal Year is the source for the above quote. Gamestop posted a record $9.74 billion in profit last fiscal year. 44% of that is about $4 billion (my math isn't accurate as I did it in my head, but you should get the point). I can see why publishers and developers are not happy.

The developers seam to believe that each used game bought is one less $60 sale. The people that buy games used are not willing to pay full price if they must then they can wait until the price is $30 or even $20.

It's simple, if you dont agree with their policies dont buy their games. I dont buy games from Ubisoft because most of them require a constant internet connection to play which is fine but what about when the internet cuts out? What if i'm not connected to the internet at all? Yeah no thanks. I dont mind DRM so long as it doesnt interfere with my ability to play the game. Limiting one save to a game does just that cause maybe I want to start over, well too bad.

It's simple, if you dont agree with their policies dont buy their games. I dont buy games from Ubisoft because most of them require a constant internet connection to play which is fine but what about when the internet cuts out? What if i'm not connected to the internet at all? Yeah no thanks. I dont mind DRM so long as it doesnt interfere with my ability to play the game. Limiting one save to a game does just that cause maybe I want to start over, well too bad.

demonic_85

I stopped buying games published by Ubi years ago with 2 minor exceptions. I would buy Cliffs of Dover if Ubi didn't publish it. Damn you Oleg. I quite buying Ubi games due to the fact that the games that I liked are no longer the defining games that they once were that won GOTY awards. I didn't like the new Ubi OSP either and would not have bought any games that featured it and Ubi finally got smart a year later after profits went down because of it along with the flak they got from gamers (me included) over it. Earlier this year, they changed the OSP to only check when the game starts up and you do not need to be connected 24/7 anymore.

I cannot find the articles that stated such, but I remember reading it. Still, ask around other forums or fansites about games you are interested in to see if they still need a 24/7 connection.

Yes well, unfortunately for the developers we have this thing called the Doctrine of First Sale. They don't have any more of a right to keep cashing in on a sold product than any content provider of any other industry. This claim about used games hurting developers is a load of bunk. That's like saying that public libraries are killing off the book publishing industry. Claiming something like that would get you laughed out of the room, but for some reason people have this irrational belief that secondhand games (which have been traded and sold for three decades) is killing off a $20 billion a year industry that will only grow larger.

Sorry, I'm afraid I just don't see it. If a developer wants my $60 on day one, EARN IT. (hint: increased DRM and over reliance on DLC as a revenue stream isn't the way to do it)

no piracy is a developers hell

mariokart64fan

Actually piracy in many ways helps a developer, it's free advertising.

i dont like buying used games as it feels like wearing someone elses underpants. (i think there was a story on gamespot about this recently) well that and the fact that the last time i was in a game shop (blockbuster games uk) all new games were at full rrp and the used games were slightly cheaper, only sliightly.

the last time i bought a game on release day was ffxiii. i recently picked up bfbc2 for £15, portal 2 £20, enslaved £12. all new from amazon. now why would i buy a used game for probably the same price or more? all you need to do is wait a few months and games drop in price. i know its hard as we all want everything straight away, but be patient if you cant afford it straight away. then maybe there wouldnt have been all this drm and online pass. still it doesnt help that these stores promote their trade in discounts when ever a new game is announced. it seems that it is their only business now.

which is a shame, i like videogame stores, but their prices are ridiculous

The way I see it, it is not exactly the used games salws that are the problem, it is the outlets that has rebuilt thier buisness practices around used games sales, (Im looking at you gamestop).

If it was just some people buying used games from eachother, I do not think it would be a proble, there would be fewer used games bought or sold in general.

We do however have this huge retail chain, whose buisness practice is to resell games rather then sell new games to people, I do feel somewhat sick when I 9/10 times hear the store clercs push used games rather then new versions, and lets be honest, those used games are almost as expencive as thier new ones.

So, To summerise, I have no problem with used games, if it is from private person to private person, or speciality stores who sells old consoles and the games for said old consoles.

It is just a really bad sign of bad health when what is likely the biggest gaming store chain, undermines the health of the industry all on its own, as a specific goal to maximize thier profits, at the cost of the health of the industry.

The way I see it, it is not exactly the used games salws that are the problem, it is the outlets that has rebuilt thier buisness practices around used games sales, (Im looking at you gamestop).

If it was just some people buying used games from eachother, I do not think it would be a proble, there would be fewer used games bought or sold in general.

We do however have this huge retail chain, whose buisness practice is to resell games rather then sell new games to people, I do feel somewhat sick when I 9/10 times hear the store clercs push used games rather then new versions, and lets be honest, those used games are almost as expencive as thier new ones.

So, To summerise, I have no problem with used games, if it is from private person to private person, or speciality stores who sells old consoles and the games for said old consoles.

It is just a really bad sign of bad health when what is likely the biggest gaming store chain, undermines the health of the industry all on its own, as a specific goal to maximize thier profits, at the cost of the health of the industry.

Maddie_Larkin

See my above post as to how much profit they rake in.

i think used games should be a reality because consumers should have choice, and be able to trade their product that they bought. also, we can spend all day moaning about how it may harm game development/reduce profits for publishers, but when PSP GO came out with a digital only service, gamers clearly said "No thank you". This was a smart move because Sony was charging way too much for digital copies. So at either end of the spectrum you are going to find greed.