I know I'll be showing my age here, but I wanted to make a recap on how I got into RTS games. Many Suns ago, I was asked to join a LAN party with friends. There was this new game called Total Anihilation. Little I suspected I was about to become hooked to the RTS genre for life. In RTS games, I found the breadth of gaming I was looking for: lots of units, lots of buildings, lots of research trees, lots of ways of winning. I personally love micromanagement. I like having lots of options and the joy of mix and matching them. To this day, I keep my TA CDs with something approaching worship. Then came the Command & Conquer series, a worthy upgrade of graphics without compromising the main premise. C&C Generals (including Zero Hour) were fun but had whiff of staleness about them. Just when I thought I knew all about RTS, along came one truly epic game: Homeworld. The story line (especially the beginning) was heart wrenching and involved. The control system had you thinking in true 3D for the first time. And the views. Ah, the views! You must realise that no other space based program had ever been rendered like that. I was utterly amazed at the beauty of space. After that, there came the decline of the RTS. Somehow, game developers thought that having too many units or options was too complicated for the gamers and started making crippling restrictions. Level caps became ridiculously small. Buildings had to be positioned in specific places only. Very often, a single superunit was the only realistic one to build. Ditto with a particular research item. Story lines became childish and incoherent. Nowadays, modern "RTS" games seem to be a mangle of RTS, RPG and squad-based constructs. I am not against any of those two last genres, mind you. It's just that it's not what I'm looking for when playing RTS. There are some exceptions, of course. I found Rise of Legends to have an imaginative story line, even though you're still restricted to building were they tell you. The Age of Empire series have also good story arcs, although a bit too "american" for my taste (the Asian Dynasties expansion was an utter disgrace in terms of "westernisation" of asian values). Supreme Commander (1, NOT 2) it's the last game to be faithful to the pure RTS idea. Yes, you get superunits. But they take so long to research and build, that you feel they're only there as eye candy, rather than realistic multiplayer options. Although, at the end of the day, there is essentially no difference in game-play between SC1 and TA. I wish developers had a bit more imagination when creating new RTS games. I'm up to here with the space theme, to be honest. After Homeworld, all the others seem just a copy. Here are a couple of my (wild) ideas: - Ant or Bees colonies Not those stupid, physically impossible insectoid baddies we get nowadays. I mean real ants or bees: Queen, workers, soldiers. - Microbes Another environment which lends itself to the main idea, with slight twists like assimilating enemies, or building complex cells. I could think of a game consisting of a human body cells trying to outwit an invasion of bacteria or virus. /sigh Please can someone DO something about it ...
You seem to have a really clear vision of what you want in a game. I suggest downloading UDK and making it happen for yourself! Oh, and it's spelled annihilation ;) just being a dick.
Dude, play any total war. You have real-time for the battles, and turn based for the campaign. Its the BEST strategy game ever made, ever since I played Rome Total War I haven't enjoyed another strategy game since. But, you have to be intelligent, you know - don't charge horses into spear men, don't just turn your tax rate up because 'you will have more money that way'. A lot of people just cant handle it, mostly people who play consoles. Coincidence?
Well, I'm old school and a bit set in my ways. Nevertheless, I consider myself open enough to try new games. Having heard so much about Call of Heroes, I decided to give it a try (just the demo from Steam). Once again I found myself in yet another squad-based "RTS". But my dismay soon gave way to respect. It clearly shares the same 3D engine as Dawn of War 2. Considering Relic is behind both of them it's hardly surprising. Since as I said I am a bit up to here with the space theme, I found CoH much better than DoW2. The environment is superbly recreated and I found the "cover" mechanics both logical and realistic. Sometimes I lost sight of my units and couldn't find them again in the main screen as they blend only too well into the scenery. I guess that's exactly the point. You wouldn't want field soldiers dressed in bright red, would you ? My only peeve is the way resources are collected (manpower, ammunition and fuel) for which you have to control certain strategic points on the map. This not only goes against logic, it also goes against the main theme of the game. I suppose having supply lines, endless arguments with generals about the need of more support, to deal with second-rate weapons and lazy personnel would be *too* realistic :p I like base building but without going over the top and CoH has got the balance right for me. In normal RTS games, you have to build lots of defence towers to compensate for the pop-cap limits (I guess that's how tower-defence games started, right?). In CoH that would be too unrealistic and would spoil the general feeling of the game. I can see how this game got one of the top ratings of all time. I will certainly buy it now. Let's hope they haven't broken a good game with CoH 2. P.S.: I misspelled Annihilation? Oh, noes! Sob, sob, sniff, sniff ... I'm ok. ;-)
I have played Total War games. My favourite is Shogun TW (the first one). Mostly because it has Japanese speech (my wife is Japanese). I must admit I mostly played the Strategic part of it. That is, I ignored actual battles, as I was not interested in the tactical part. I know you'll probably berate me for missing half the fun of the game, but hey, that's just me. I loved the diplomacy, the research, the taking of strategic provinces (with interesting names like Satsuma and Bingo). Considering I know a bit of Japanese history, I was thrilled to control Oda Nobunaga and the Tokugawa clan. A bit different from TA, C&C and company (which are mostly tactical) but good fun nevertheless.
I'm a TA and Supreme Commander Fan myself and I hear what you're saying. I have two words for you; " We're Old". I'm guessing you're about my age, or close; being closer to 40 than 30. That's the way of gaming these days. TA, SC1, The Operation Art of War, Panzer General, Strategic Command. They just don't really make many games like this anymore. My suggestion is battlefront.com or wargamer.net. oh.....and YOU ARE missing out on half of the fun with the Total War series. I'm a bit of a student of japanese history myself and love both Shogun and Shogun 2 total war. The whole Total War series is great!
All the arguments here are valid, but there's one that I think superseeds everything else. And it's contained in the name - "Real Time".
I've played all the RTS games out there up until 10 years ago, when I woke up in the real world and I saw the matrix: there are three types of games out there: - "how fast you can click the mouse" games; - "how deep can you think/...err ... how large info databases can you maintain" games; - in between;
The "classical" RTS games are "how fast you can click the mouse" games. If there are successful ways to win a game, the one applying them faster wins the game. Personally, if I want to test my synapses time, I'll go play FPS/TPS. There is chess and fast chess. I like the first but not the other.
The competition from more elaborated form of the games - the ones discerning in between "tactics" and "strategy", including the online forms, was too much to bear for the "classical" form of RTS. TBS/RTT and RTS/TBT games not only became more successful, but are among the first 5 of all-time greatest, at least on PC.
Having now played through the first 5 campaigns of CoH, I am having second thoughts about this game. I has fallen into the usual malaise of war games. I am constantly irritated by the way the games apply the "difficulty" level. It basically boils down to throwing more and more units at you. They are also stronger, move faster and seem to have an endless supply of resources. As the old saying goes: "God helps the Baddies when they're more than the Goodies". As any good General knows, you have to mass your forces to have a significant effect on your enemy. If your forces are more or less matched, it's your skilled use of tactics that will carry the day. Since I am a descendant of TA, C&C, SC gamers, I hate it when I only have a couple of units at my disposal. What do you mean I can only build one or two anti-tank units ? I know the Panzers are coming. I want one or two ***hundred***, ta very much. And where the hell is my air support ? Yes, I want numbers. I want infantry battalions, tank divisions, batteries of artillery, stacks of gunships, helicopters, stealth bombers. I want rabid dogs, mad scientists, megalomaniac generals, elite troops, poisoned barb-wire. I WANT EVERYTHING !!! HAHAHAHAHAH !!! ... erm ... I may have sounded a bit disturbed for a moment there. Must. Rest.
Feel same..I have test many recent rts, unfortunayely.. non like 'those old rts"..I can only play a few minutes than get boring..To fulfill my emptiness..I seek mods version of Homeworld 2 and CnC (especially Tiberian Sun)..There are lots out there, fortunately. Right now I joint ppm forum, please check http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/index.php?f=24&ppage=50&sort=lastpost&order=DESC&start=50 Twisted Insurrection (a Tiberian Sun mod) has campaign!!!! For 3d graphic, I recommend Tiberium War.. (mods also avaible and many) For Homeworld 2, I recommend Complex mod and many other. For Age of Empires, I recommend Age of Mythology (so far no decent mod, so may be very people that still play it , too bad).
I'm a massive fan of TA and SupCom. Â But more recently I have been enjoying Wargame: European Escalation. Â That is a really cracking RTS. Â Give it a bash.
yes it is sad; thus why Age of Empires 2 in HD came out, because there are no other good RTS's right now. Â I am looking forward to CoH 2. Â New RTS's are dumbed down to one reseource, which ruins micromanaging your economy. Â I think I'll go back to Age of Empires 3 now that you mention it. Â
We are a small upstart group of game developers that are currently developing a new RTS inspired by the classic AoE games. Drop by our facebook at http://www.facebook.com/coliseumstudios to show us some love and let us know what you think. The more input from the RTS community, the better. Keep in mind that this is our first game and we would love to build it with the unput and support of the community.
Hi I was just passing by and I saw this topic. I was actually looking for news of any RTS development....fingers crossed someone's up to something :) Anyway for some reason an old strategy game sprang to mind one that I wish had come to more, I don't know if you ever played it it was called `Metal Fatigue' I feel this game tried something a little different. It was based simultaneously across 3 levels; underground, land and orbit. Although not fully realised there but i definitely saw a potential. I would really like to write maybe a dozen or so paragraphs about it but instead to summarise. 3 races, tanks, robots, 3 layers, lots of fun, minimal resource gathering, but still key. This gave was under developed and not with out its flaws. But I recommend you give it a shot. Just Google it with 'abandonware' as a key word. You can find it and try it out for yourself...if you want Finally I know this is actually 4x and not straight RTS but have you tries 'sins of a solar empire' I love that game, huge battles, days even weeks on a single map...
OP, have you only played c&c generals? if you haven't played the other c&cs then you are missing a lot. try red alert 2,3,1 and tiberian sun, tiberium wars, tiberian dawn. also dune 2000. some of these are old but gold. a newer fun rts that you may like is universe at war. if you haven't played dawn of war yet, do it. don't play dow2 since its a squad/rpg like game.
Hmm age is definitely not a factor of knowing Total Annihilation that's for sure ;) A general desire for a game that tests your capabilities on an endless scope that doesn't half ass content in game is what you're going on! I played TA when I was about 8 and every now and then I get it out for a good ol lan party with unsuspecting friends and of course my Dad who woops my ass beyond comprehension. Of course I'm 20 now and I can definitely see what's missing with today's RTS games when they are actually produced and sold.
You definitely wanna get a look into Planetary Annihilation. Steam is offering Alpha and Beta access as well as the retail game for 90 bucks... ridiculous I know but it may just be worth your while if you really miss the series.Â
Supreme commander 1 was good, supreme commander 2 was a joke for series and especially for one being the brain child of Chris Taylor who headed design in TA.
great post but you forgot some great midevil RTS'sÂ
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first up there is battle realms, it's a fantasic classic from (2002, 2003 if you count it with the expansion) and has very realistic detials (warrior actually block hits and not just trades blows, making soliders by training villigers in special barrcks {there is: dojo,archery range,cheimical foundry)Â
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a game similar to that will be lord of the rings war of the ring which is battle realms+warcraft 3 blended togatherÂ
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i could reccommend more but give me your type of genreÂ
battle realms is good but its unit production system is very similar to war wind but easier to use. another game that uses that system is besieger. starcraft 2 is gameplay wise similar to old school games like starcraft and warcraft 2 but its graphics is of course much better. there is a game named glest that have lots of mods and that is free.(freeware) i am working on a warcraft 3 map that adds extra races and some of those have quite a few units.(the animals for example gets enough units to nearly fill a building but they have other unit production buildings as well and the ability to train workers into units.)
Dude, play any total war. You have real-time for the battles, and turn based for the campaign. Its the BEST strategy game ever made, ever since I played Rome Total War I haven't enjoyed another strategy game since. But, you have to be intelligent, you know - don't charge horses into spear men, don't just turn your tax rate up because 'you will have more money that way'. A lot of people just cant handle it, mostly people who play consoles. Coincidence?jamesdvhunt
I am old school in RTS as well. I even played the Avalon Hill and SSI board strategy games. I've hated every "Total War" game I've ever tried. Â Okay, I can't make buildings? Fine. Â I can't grind out new units? Okay. I get a few units to place on the map to start? Sure, but as soon as a battle starts, all my units get chicken and turn around and run and I can't control them.
I am old skool too and I agree that a lot of things have changed in the RTS arena and in other game genres as well. I personally don't mind the short handed versions(as I call them) of the latest RTS games. They make for quick time killers and get to the point when one cannot invest hours upon hours into critical game play or try out new tactical scenarios. There was a time when I could do this but now these days I am too busy with other areas of life to invest 8 hours of game play a day. As for your ideas on possible RTS scenarios. I agree with the other post in this topic. Perhaps, you should pull out the ole workbench and manifest these ideas into something that everyone can share in.
For those of you who mention the Total War series, in my opinion it is not really an RTS, because there is an end turn button, it is therefore closer to a turn based strategy. Although there is the real time battle aspect of the game, because the units are created before the battle, it is a structured battle, not really in the tradition of what I call "classic RTS". My guess is that the majority of true RTS games are base building (Warcraft I, II, III, the original Dawn of War (to a certain extent, because while there is an end turn button in Soulstorm and Dark Crusade, everything is controlled from a battlefield level and there is no "strategy" off the battlefield), and the Command and Conquer series), in which every aspect of the game is done in real time, with the computer/opposing player trying to out think the player immediately as events unfold. My guess is that there is no real time government/world wide level strategy game (that involves diplomacy, like TW) because there is only a small market of gamers who would devote the brain power to basically play politics in a game (which would change real time battles, because while in battle, a diplomat might want to talk to you, which might actually be pretty cool. Multitasking in game at its finest).
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