The Issue With Tomb Raider Situation...

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#1 Edited by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

Okay so before I start I just want to point out that I don't wish to condone any kind of system war argument within this topic,thank you.

I can understand the issue thats currently at hand now with PS/PC owners up in flames over Rise of the Tomb Raider being a X1 timed exclusive, but here's my issue on it, and I want to hear you're thoughts.

When Demon souls was released back in 2009 it was a PS3 exclusive, and grabbed the attention of millions, and soon had a decent size fanbase behind it. Years later Dark souls was released on PS3, PC and xbox 360 and it claimed to be a "spiritual successor" to the cult classic. However as soon as people got their hands on it, they soon realised that it was essentially just a sequel, and so the term "soul game" had been created, inorder to establish a series of games developed by "From Software" that pretty much played the same.

And plenty of people knew that the only reason Dark souls wasn't called "Demon Souls 2" was because Sony owned the rights to the ip "Demon Souls" and therefore had it be named "Demon Souls 2" there's no way there would of been a PC/xbox 360 release.

Naturally a fanbase for the series was then established on both the PC and Xbox 360 now aswell as the original PS3 fans. and earlier this year we where treated with another Dark souls game "Dark Souls 2" which was also on PS3, Xbox 360 and PC. So by now, as you can imagine there is a decent size fanbase for these "Soul games" on Xbox 360 and PC!

Then a few months later, leaks started spreading all over the internet on a "new souls game" and everyone started getting really excited, myself included! there was gameplay and even a name "Bloodborne" and it looked like a truly next gen Souls game, that thrilled heaps of fans!..........Until it was announced as a PS4 exclusive. Which essentially spat on the faces of those pre-established fans on the Xbox/PC that now had to lay in the dirt...And unlike "Rise Of The Tomb Raider" which is only a timed exclusive, meaning that PS4/PC owners will eventually get to play it, Xbox/PC owners will NEVER be able to play the next Soul game....because its a permanent exclusive.

To me thats more of a dick move by Sony, than what MS did with Tomb raider.

Now whilst you could argue that "Bloodborne" is a new IP, and you would be correct in doing so. Fans of the Soul games can clearer see with their bare eyes, that whilst technically it is a new IP...the gameplay, the look, the feel and the structure of what we've seen from BloodBorne, essentially is a sequel to the Dark souls franchise, as Dark Souls was a sequel to Demon Souls.

So in actual reality PS fans, shouldn't really be bitching and complaining about Tomb Raider, when Sony has blatantly done worse. But seeing its only xbox and PC fans getting screwed over, it suddenly becomes OK? Thats what I dont understand......I mean...where was the uproar for that turn of events?

And forget Sony, MS and PC. What about nintendo? seriously the first few Crystal dynamic Tomb Raider games made releases on the Wii, which set up a fanbase there. So why did they made the 2013 Tomb Raider on EVERYTHING but the Wii-U. Nintendo owners got majorly fucked up.

So again...In actual reality, it wasn't PS4 owners that "GOT SCREWED OVER"......It was literally every other gamer on the planet that did.

Thoughts? sorry for making this sound like a blog.

#2 Posted by Gamerno6666 (543 posts) -

But the situation of bloodborne and tombraider is much different. TR was revealed as multiplat game which MS out of nowhere snatched up the timed exclusivity deal. And no MS studios is working with CD to make TR. But sony's inhouse studio is working with from software to make bloodborne and also sony is publishing the game. I am pissed off about bloodborne to but I can understand why it is an exclusive. Also the gameplay in bloodborne is much different than the previous souls game.

#3 Posted by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

But the situation of bloodborne and tombraider is much different. TR was revealed as multiplat game which MS out of nowhere snatched up the timed exclusivity deal. And no MS studios is working with CD to make TR. But sony's inhouse studio is working with from software to make bloodborne and also sony is publishing the game. I am pissed off about bloodborne to but I can understand why it is an exclusive. Also the gameplay in bloodborne is much different than the previous souls game.

TR was revealed as a multiplat, however there was NEVER any mention of ROTTR being a multiplat, hell it was even shown at Xbox's press conference e3, and the only system you could preorder on in Australia was on the Xbox one. Seeing how Sony is working with From Software to develop BloodBorne, doesn't change the situation, seeing how From Software is not a first party studio!

"Also the gameplay in bloodborne is much different than the previous souls game"

I completely disagree, it does have little changes ( as most sequels in a franchise should have ) but in-terms of gameplay, enemy designs, world design, theme and hell even gameplay! It couldn't be anymore obvious that it is A SOUL GAME. Ask anyone who has had hands on time and they will tell you that its a SOUL game. Hell its even got the mist door thing going on like every SOUL game before it! and again, atleast Tomb raider is only a timed exclusive, Bloodborne is a permanent exclusive!

#4 Posted by b-u-r-r-o-w-s (6 posts) -
#5 Posted by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

I think what most Sony fans are pissed about(myself included) is that Sony made Tomb Raider popular ( Tomb Raider 1996 , Tomb Raider 2 1997 , Tomb Raider III: Adventures of Lara Croft 1998 , Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation 1999 , Tomb Raider Chronicles 2000 , Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness 2003 , and then in 2006 xbox released there first game and its been multiplat since so for them too say we might never play the new one is a kick in the teeth , saying that Im sure its a timed exclusive.

Yeah that is completely fair man, I totally agree. What Iam trying to say though, is that playstation fans will get the opportunity eventually to play this game once its release outside of Xbox. However xbox gamers that are fans of the Soul series, wont EVER be able to play Bloodborne. Which atleast IMO is a hell of alot worse.

#6 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

Well you know me I'm a simple guy. Exclusivity Sucks ! Obviously if one system has hardware the the other doesn't then that I understand, but that company should work on making that hardware aswell.

#7 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

Not that it matters... Rise Of The Tomb Raider isn't even the best game their making.... That honour goes to Lara Croft and The Temple Of Osiris. Thats one game that deserves to be on as many Platforms as possible.

Speaking of which... Whats The Wii U getting ?

#8 Posted by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

Not that it matters... Rise Of The Tomb Raider isn't even the best game their making.... That honour goes to Lara Croft and The Temple Of Osiris. Thats one game that deserves to be on as many Platforms as possible.

Speaking of which... Whats The Wii U getting ?

Wasnt a huge fan of Temple of Light, so I guess it all just comes down to personal preference.

#9 Posted by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

Not that it matters... Rise Of The Tomb Raider isn't even the best game their making.... That honour goes to Lara Croft and The Temple Of Osiris. Thats one game that deserves to be on as many Platforms as possible.

Speaking of which... Whats The Wii U getting ?

Wasnt a huge fan of Temple of Light, so I guess it all just comes down to personal preference.

#10 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Mesomorphin

Temple Of Light ?

Your memory is getting alil rusty.

And hey I totally respect preferences, Some people Prefer Great games and other people prefer Tomb Raider... :p and thats okay with me.

#11 Edited by bezza2011 (2384 posts) -

No your completely wrong. you cannot even compare the 2 as much as you want to say that dark souls and demon souls are sequels and dark souls 2 just come out and o now there is another but it's exclusive and that's so bad and shame on you Sony, it isn't a Sequel it is a brand new game, like Dark Souls was to Demon Soul's, there 2 different games it just so happens From Software make the same genre games, it did not follow the story on. Plus Demon Souls was Exclusive to Sony and that was the first game, so it really isn't the same as Tomb Raider. There not Sequels Demon Souls is a different game to Dark Souls, BloodBourne is a totally different game as well New IP

Now take Tomb Raider, it started it's life back on PS1,PC, Sega Saturn, it has always been a Multiplat game, it is rich in history of being this, Tomb Raider Reboot was brought out for PS3/PC/360. The Definitive Edition was brought out for PS4/Xbox1, it sold 69% better on PS4.

The Rise Of The Tomb Raider is a direct sequel to the reboot, it is a continuation of the story everyone who played the reboot, it is not just a similar game from the same company, it is not a new IP, it is a direct sequel which was always going to be a multiplat, it is in an elite group of games which should never be anything but that. But Microsoft who have no quality in house developers to create a unique and fresh new IP to compete with Uncharted next year or anything for that matter, so all they do is rob the next best thing, and that to me is what is wrong with Microsoft esp in console gaming, it's the easy way out for them.

Now that we know it's a time exclusive, for me it makes Microsoft look even worse, It shows you right there that they knew they could not compete with Uncharted and needed something next year to help them out because they probably have nothing lined up, so now they have Tomb Raider to compete and then a couple months later I believe once sales of Uncharted have died down then it will be released for all consoles and of course it will be better on PS4 and PC it's another reason for it as well esp on Crystal Dynamics side, for them they get compensation for not going on all consoles, and plus they will get a lot of money from sales while Uncharted does it's business for Sony.

#12 Posted by Treflis (11481 posts) -

The reason I found it strange was that they complained that the Tomb Raider reboot didn't sell enough millions to be a profit for them, which I at in a way can understand but it means they should probably lower their budget a little, So when the next one is then told to be Xbox One exclusive then either they've really cut their budget on it or they have gotten a good deal from Microsoft.

In either case, if they after release again complain about the sales I'll be right here pointing and saying " Duh!"

#13 Posted by pyro1245 (566 posts) -

Demon's Souls - don't forget to pluralize Demon; the devs must have called it that so it would be as hard to say the title as it was to beat.

As for the exclusive deals, I think all exclusive deals are terrible. I can understand first-party dev teams making exclusive games but I'm in favor of getting games out to everyone. I'll never understand the people who get all whiny because a third-party game gets released on multiple platforms. It's a good thing dammit! As for MS... well they're doing what they always do, throwing money at IPs in order to get people to buy their shit.

#14 Edited by speedfreak48t5p (6974 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

Not that it matters... Rise Of The Tomb Raider isn't even the best game their making.... That honour goes to Lara Croft and The Temple Of Osiris. Thats one game that deserves to be on as many Platforms as possible.

Speaking of which... Whats The Wii U getting ?

Wasnt a huge fan of Temple of Light, so I guess it all just comes down to personal preference.

I thought the temple of Osiris was the sequel to the Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light. I never even heard of the temple of light before.

#15 Posted by The_Last_Ride (70750 posts) -

Tomb Raider was never going to be an exclusive, just look at what Square Enix said after the sales of 4 million. It was too low. Demon Souls was funded by Sony as a new ip and it's japanese. What did you expect? The Souls games aren't really AAA games compared to the budget like Tomb Raider. The 2nd party games for all the consoles aren't AAA games. Sunset Overdrive, Dead Rising, Bloodborne, Resogun, etc

#16 Posted by yukushi (132 posts) -

@mesomorphin:

Your point makes no sense there will be a demon souls 3 game coming out so bloodbourne has nothing to do with it, the gameplay, story and setting is completely different, while the new tombraider game is a direct sequel which microsoft snatched up. if square had announced that they where making an exclusive game in the tomb raider universe nobody would has being upset about this.

#17 Posted by Behardy24 (3138 posts) -

Wait, I thought Bloodborne was a whole standalone game and universe with elements of the Souls game in it. Or am I wrong?

#18 Posted by Behardy24 (3138 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: *OFF TOPIC* - You finally add an avatar picture! :D

#19 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Behardy24

Yeah... Been getting alot of great feedback about that lately.

#20 Edited by Behardy24 (3138 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: I bet. It's great to finally see you with something other than the default avatar. :P

#21 Posted by Pedro (21037 posts) -

Its a rather simple comparison. Folks who were interested in Darks Souls would also be interested in Bloodborne so making exclusive is giving the Dark Souls fans on the other systems the shaft. Unlike Tombraider in which it would be coming to the other systems eventually.

#22 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Behardy24

And I think I picked the appropriate character to along with my M.O. Here on these boards... :)

#23 Edited by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

No your completely wrong. you cannot even compare the 2 as much as you want to say that dark souls and demon souls are sequels and dark souls 2 just come out and o now there is another but it's exclusive and that's so bad and shame on you Sony, it isn't a Sequel it is a brand new game, like Dark Souls was to Demon Soul's, there 2 different games it just so happens From Software make the same genre games, it did not follow the story on. Plus Demon Souls was Exclusive to Sony and that was the first game, so it really isn't the same as Tomb Raider. There not Sequels Demon Souls is a different game to Dark Souls, BloodBourne is a totally different game as well New IP

Now take Tomb Raider, it started it's life back on PS1,PC, Sega Saturn, it has always been a Multiplat game, it is rich in history of being this, Tomb Raider Reboot was brought out for PS3/PC/360. The Definitive Edition was brought out for PS4/Xbox1, it sold 69% better on PS4.

The Rise Of The Tomb Raider is a direct sequel to the reboot, it is a continuation of the story everyone who played the reboot, it is not just a similar game from the same company, it is not a new IP, it is a direct sequel which was always going to be a multiplat, it is in an elite group of games which should never be anything but that. But Microsoft who have no quality in house developers to create a unique and fresh new IP to compete with Uncharted next year or anything for that matter, so all they do is rob the next best thing, and that to me is what is wrong with Microsoft esp in console gaming, it's the easy way out for them.

Now that we know it's a time exclusive, for me it makes Microsoft look even worse, It shows you right there that they knew they could not compete with Uncharted and needed something next year to help them out because they probably have nothing lined up, so now they have Tomb Raider to compete and then a couple months later I believe once sales of Uncharted have died down then it will be released for all consoles and of course it will be better on PS4 and PC it's another reason for it as well esp on Crystal Dynamics side, for them they get compensation for not going on all consoles, and plus they will get a lot of money from sales while Uncharted does it's business for Sony.

Did you ignore what I said? Demon souls and Dark souls are in a line of games known as "the soul games" which also includes Bloodborne, regardless of whether story matches up. Infact Dark souls 1 and Dark souls 2 had completely different stories, on different worlds altogether! Any demon/dark soul fan can easily pick up that Bloodborne is a soul game, there is no denying it! and regardless of whether its a direct sequel or not, that doesnt change the fact that xbox/PC soul fans, are feeling ripped on!

What are you talking about that MS has nothing lined up for next year? um hello, Quantum break, d4, Fable legends, Crack down, Scalebound, Phantom dust, ScreamRide and not to mention their monster release...Halo 5, which will wipe the floor clean in terms of sales next to Uncharted, plus not to mention Tomb raider now. As I mentioned earlier I dont want to turn this into a console fight, I respect both systems and their releases/quality, as should you.

" and of course it will be better on PS4 and PC "

According to who? your mum? how would the ps4 version be any different? At the very least the xbox one version MAY run at 900p, and anyone with an actual brain can identify that the difference between 1080p and 900p is like so bar minimal, you literally need to set up two monitors and stare directly for like 5 minutes before you notice the most minimal detail. PS4 and the Xbox one are identical. You want strong performance? you want 4k? then yes jump on a PC. Otherwise dont ever put a PS4 next to a PC like that.

#24 Edited by Behardy24 (3138 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: If you don't mind me asking, who is the character in your avatar picture? I don't know anything about anime.

#25 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

He's from the Naruto Anime.... Orochimaru.... He's one of the many villains in the show and the only one who doesn't seem to have succumbed to "Spectacle Creep".

#26 Edited by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

He's from the Naruto Anime.... Orochimaru.... He's one of the many villains in the show and the only one who doesn't seem to have succumbed to "Spectacle Creep".

Iam tossing up between Full metal alch Brotherhood and Naruto..suggestion? Just finished watching DBZ for the second time and I doubt anything can top DBZ, but I'am interested in other anime.

#27 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Mesomorphin

Look, I won't lie to you... NARUTO SUCKS ! The Mangas sucks, The Anime Sucks and the Games sucks... Theres not a single medium this particular Franchise seems to be good in. That is all.... No seriously, thats it.

I've haven't watched Full Metal Alchemist infact I don't watch any Anime other than Naruto...

I strongly reccomend The Legend of Korra though... Fantastic Cartoon but it does succumb to Spectacle Creep in the end of Season 2... I can only imagine what season 3 is gona be like.

#28 Posted by dotWithShoes (4834 posts) -

I think what most Sony fans are pissed about(myself included) is that Sony made Tomb Raider popular ( Tomb Raider 1996 , Tomb Raider 2 1997 , Tomb Raider III: Adventures of Lara Croft 1998 , Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation 1999 , Tomb Raider Chronicles 2000 , Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness 2003 , and then in 2006 xbox released there first game and its been multiplat since so for them too say we might never play the new one is a kick in the teeth , saying that Im sure its a timed exclusive.

You do realize Tomb Raider started as a multiplatform game..

#29 Posted by b-u-r-r-o-w-s (6 posts) -

@dotWithShoes: At what point did I say it was a Playstation exclusive ? I was just saying Sony made the game have the fanbase that it does and it was only on Playstation and PC for most of its history !

#30 Posted by Jimmy_Russell (557 posts) -

I'm exclusively a PC/PS gamer and I could honestly not care any less about this news. I didn't even purchase the new Tomb Raider game when it was on a Steam sale at 75% off. I have absolutely zero interest in playing over-hyped AAA garbage.

#31 Edited by dotWithShoes (4834 posts) -

I think what most Sony fans are pissed about(myself included) is that Sony made Tomb Raider popular ( Tomb Raider 1996 , Tomb Raider 2 1997 , Tomb Raider III: Adventures of Lara Croft 1998 , Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation 1999 , Tomb Raider Chronicles 2000 , Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness 2003 , and then in 2006 xbox released there first game and its been multiplat since so for them too say we might never play the new one is a kick in the teeth , saying that Im sure its a timed exclusive.

@dotWithShoes: At what point did I say it was a Playstation exclusive ? I was just saying Sony made the game have the fanbase that it does and it was only on Playstation and PC for most of its history !

That part that I bolded implied that i was exclusive, you mention nothing of it being multiplat before and then say it has been ever since. It's simple to make that assumption, whether you were intending that or not.

#32 Posted by Gamerno6666 (543 posts) -

Iam tossing up between Full metal alch Brotherhood and Naruto..suggestion? Just finished watching DBZ for the second time and I doubt anything can top DBZ, but I'am interested in other anime.

Just watch FMA:B. Amazing anime.

#33 Posted by Evil_Saluki (4878 posts) -

Outside of Gamespot i'm yet to meet anyone who gives a crap about dark souls. They can release the next one on the Commodore Amiga.

#34 Posted by firefox59 (4362 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

He's from the Naruto Anime.... Orochimaru.... He's one of the many villains in the show and the only one who doesn't seem to have succumbed to "Spectacle Creep".

Iam tossing up between Full metal alch Brotherhood and Naruto..suggestion? Just finished watching DBZ for the second time and I doubt anything can top DBZ, but I'am interested in other anime.

Don't watch FMA: Brotherhood until you watch some other anime first. Nothing can top DBZ cause of nostalgia, but Brotherhood is f'cking amazing and it will ruin other anime for you.

#35 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@firefox59

Why do people like DBZ so damn much ? Beyond the Spectacle its got no redeeming qualities.

#36 Edited by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@firefox59

Why do people like DBZ so damn much ? Beyond the Spectacle its got no redeeming qualities.

Are you serious man? its got so much damn personality in it! I mainly like it because it has a really interesting bunch of characters that have incredible development arcs! plus the action/music is so damn intense! On top of that if you're a 90's kid, DBZ was our entire childhood in a nutshell. PLUS it literally has the best fucking voice acting!

There are so many deep, emotional and epic scenes I could use to illustrate. Here's short clip from the show.

#37 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Mesomorphin

Vegeta is the only Dragon Ball character who is capable of depth, the rest of them are flat and are devoid of any real substance, they don't grow or change in any meaningfull way and some of them don't change at all, when Picolo finaly changed it was kinda stupid and pointless, infact the effect didn't last any longer than the episode it happened in (the one where him and his doppleganger "reunite").

And lets face it, DBZ is nothing but a Level Up system disguised as an Anime.... Thats all the character do.... Achieving their next stage of evolution by screaming very loudly in some awkard, constipated stance like they haven't crapped in days ! They just "transform" constantly and before you know it they are blowing planets....... Oh and occasionally they will resurrect the dead, With a reptile version of a Genie.

Wow this went on for longer than I anticipated.

#38 Edited by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

@Mesomorphin

Vegeta is the only Dragon Ball character who is capable of depth, the rest of them are flat and are devoid of any real substance, they don't grow or change in any meaningfull way and some of them don't change at all, when Picolo finaly changed it was kinda stupid and pointless, infact the effect didn't last any longer than the episode it happened in (the one where him and his doppleganger "reunite").

And lets face it, DBZ is nothing but a Level Up system disguised as an Anime.... Thats all the character do.... Achieving their next stage of evolution by screaming very loudly in some awkard, constipated stance like they haven't crapped in days ! They just "transform" constantly and before you know it they are blowing planets....... Oh and occasionally they will resurrect the dead, With a reptile version of a Genie.

Wow this went on for longer than I anticipated.

It seems to me that DBZ just isnt your thing, DBZ doesn't have some mysterious in-depth mind fucking story. It just is what it is! this awesome anime that kicks ass with awesome music, voice acting, moments, characters and villains! IMO its the best anime I've ever seen.

#39 Edited by Notorious1234NA (316 posts) -

@mesomorphin said:

Okay so before I start I just want to point out that I don't wish to condone any kind of system war argument within this topic,thank you.

"LMAO"

I can understand the issue thats currently at hand now with PS/PC owners up in flames over Rise of the Tomb Raider being a X1 timed exclusive, but here's my issue on it, and I want to hear you're thoughts.

...

So in actual reality PS fans, shouldn't really be bitching and complaining about Tomb Raider, when Sony has blatantly done worse. But seeing its only xbox and PC fans getting screwed over, it suddenly becomes OK? Thats what I dont understand......I mean...where was the uproar for that turn of events?

And forget Sony, MS and PC. What about nintendo? seriously the first few Crystal dynamic Tomb Raider games made releases on the Wii, which set up a fanbase there. So why did they made the 2013 Tomb Raider on EVERYTHING but the Wii-U. Nintendo owners got majorly fucked up.

So again...In actual reality, it wasn't PS4 owners that "GOT SCREWED OVER"......It was literally every other gamer on the planet that did.

Thoughts? sorry for making this sound like a blog.

  1. Tomb Raider flopped the year it released because it wasn't a Tomb Raider game (DmC same issue)
  2. No one is bitchin really um we don't care read between the lines hell I bet even gamespot might make some noise about this irrelevant game for a couple clicks
  3. Uncharted 4
  4. Missing bigger picture and making assumptions.

Um hello people the devs themselves, community, and publisher admitted the reboot flopped. MS knows this isn't a console moving game nor is it able to compete with Uncharted. They are not trying to nor do they need too. MS still reigns king in the US and has control of the software market aka digital downloads. Very firm grip. Just because these new next gen bricks came out, doesn't mean the previous gen is dead. Globally, yes the PS4 is doing better vs Xbone, but it terms of which franchise is selling digital copies, SONY not even close.

#40 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Mesomorphin

Breaks my heart to here you say that.

Atleast tell me you've Watched Legend of Korra....

#41 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Notorious1234NA

It was a flop in sales but both Tomb Raider and DmC were not bad or even average games, Hardcore Fans are the most reliable when it comes to keeping a franchise alive but they are the most unstable when it comes to even arbitrary changes like whos designing they game or the hair colour of the Protagonist. It gets really complicated when you throw fanboys into the equation. You know whats funny.... People had the nerve to claim that the story of these reboots suck, which may or may not be true, What I can say for certain is is they're predecessors are not on anybody's top 10 video gaming stories list.

#42 Posted by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: I have not, I don't really like Avatar that much at all, to be fair I've only seen one piece, Bleach and Death Note. I love DBZ for the same reason I like spiderman and batman. There is lust variety of villains each with their own story and power that separates the from the last. I also love just pure epic scenes, and dbz does not fail to deliver. And atleast from the anime I have seen, I still stand by word that DBZ is all time best anime ever created. Death note being a close second. I've also been dieing to see Attack on titan, but I'am not sure if there is an english release yet.

#43 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Mesomorphin

Atleast you didn't mention Pokemon... :)

#44 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16678 posts) -

Microsoft sucks anyways.

#45 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer

Amen to that ! :)

#46 Posted by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -
#47 Posted by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: The first season of Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh Fucking rocked man!

#48 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Mesomorphin

They are better as games... Especially Yu-gi-Oh.

#49 Edited by Notorious1234NA (316 posts) -

Tomb was only a flop b/c they devs were asking too much to make an 8hr game and it took toooooooo long to turn a profit well before SE fiscal year end. With regards to that, Square definitely had a right to pissed. You don't ask for a higher pay-grade, more funding, and then don't deliver. SE just doing damage control after they stupidly announced to the world their failure. Yes gamers, if the sales to produce the game don't cover costs it failed. Nearly 3.6-5m copies didn't cover Tombs cost. Anyway, the only reason SE did not pull the plug is because:

  1. It's making money despite how little it is aka price cuts
  2. Probably have a contract

Lets just hope that SE sends a message and gives the big middle finger to Crystal Dynamics next time they ask $100m to produce an 8-20hr game. Too many devs are asking for outrageous amounts of $$$ only to produce subpar games.

#50 Posted by firefox59 (4362 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: The first season of Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh Fucking rocked man!

Pokemon was good for the first season. Some of the Johto stuff was good like the big tournament at the end. Most of the people I know stopped watching it because Ash kept releasing all of his pokemon, like fricken Charizard. I stopped watching Yugioh somewhere before the end of the Marik Saga. I enjoyed it but seemed like it has run it's course.

As for DBZ, it's just something you have to get when you watch it. If you don't get behind the characters the show does seem bland and repetitive. It does bother me when people say only Vegeta underwent character development. Gohan and Buu experienced massive changes. The biggest problem was that Toriyama was supposed to end it twice but kept it going cause of the rabid fanbase. I still think he did a good job with it though. My favorite part of the series is the moments though. There are some anime that are good overall but don't have powerful impact moments. DBZ has so many of those. While FMA: Brotherhood may have had bigger woah moments, it had about 5 or 6. Where as DBZ had somewhere around 12 and that's not just because the series is longer.