Metroid Prime the last good FPS?

@buurnaakmer: Technically every game can be seen as on-rails as there's always a beginning and end objective, but with games like Metroid you carved your own path through the game and no two peoples play throughs will be the same experience, I'll admit Metroid isn't the absolute prime example of non-linearity in design, that goes to the original Thief games in my opinion, but still was striking and effective in creating an incredible sense of exploration, discovery, that simply doesn't exist anymore.

Dam straight, cysis series is one of if not the best fps series i have ever played, so good.

Kinda back on topic i quite enjoyed metroid prime on the wii, anyone else?

@ariabed: I played the Wii version, the aiming with the controller is great but decided to replay it on my Gamecube again for nostalgic reasons, had some good times on GCN :P

Plenty of great FPS games were released after that. Being linear doesn't mean a bad game, as long as area is big enough for you to find hidden ammo, weapons and gadgets or big enough to flank your enemies. Great linear and non linear games came out since then.

• Half Life 2
• FEAR
• STALKER
• Crysis
• Shadow Warrior
• Portal 2 (Puzzler)
• Deus Ex: Human Revolution (RPG/FPS hybrid)
• Far Cry 3 etc

I agree that after Modern Warfare, FPS genre started to become shitty but we are recovering. Stuff like Unreal Tournament, Shadow Warrior 2, Doom etc is really exciting. Sick of those shitty military shooters.

As for level design,,, blame COD and casual gamers. It was all about "cinematic experiences" last gen but as mentioned above, we are recovering.

The last great shooter that I've played was S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat.

I do.

And holy ****, people need to remove the nostalgia pants and adjust their over the top expectations.

@gamerguru100: I don't have nostalgia for design, good design is good design regardless of era, which is completely non-existent anymore, there are no cool layouts anymore, no cool, well thought out combat situations, piss poor 'gameplay' and hardly any atmosphere in FPS games anymore these days. I hate that nostalgia argument, I desperately want something to be released today that puts all my favourite FPS games to absolute shame, I have extremely low expectations really, hell, I had more fun playing Super Noah's Ark 3D recently (a game I had never heard of before so no nostalgia there) than any damn modern shooter... A large percentage of awful games from the 90's still have vastly superior level design to any shooter released these days which is just sad.

@Cloud_imperium Didn't like any of those games, F.E.A.R did have a few cool moments though but nothing special really.

Didn't know this thread is about convincing you to like those games or force you to stop pretending that you don't like. You are just downplaying every game now. That's not how stuff works. Metroid Prime is not a high point of FPS genre. PC shooters released back then were already superior than the ones available on Consoles in including Metroid. Let alone shooters that came after that on every platform.

@Cloud_imperium: I dislike those games, plain and simple, they're shallow and boring as hell to me and have nothing that I like in the FPS genre in them, just being honest.

Then it sounds more like a blog and less like a thread with actual discussion. As I said, that's not how stuff works.

@Cloud_imperium: So I can't have an opinion on games that people name drop here? I'm pretty sure there are people who here will agree with your taste in games, I'm just replying to your post...

You CAN have an opinion but I'm just saying that when we discuss something, we compare strengths and weaknesses of different games. I can make a thread and tell people how Metroid is the worst game of all time and downplay everything but that won't be a good discussion. Even if I really don't like xyz game, I'll have to take different aspects of it into account. I can't just say, I don't like them so they suck. That's all what I'm saying. I'm not saying that your opinion is right or wrong because I respect it.

@Cloud_imperium: This thread was originally about asking where design in FPS games went and used Metroid Prime as an example of design we no longer see in them...

I agree about Level design (as mentioned above). Most new games are designed for casuals, where you walk in straight line from point A to B, connected through cutscenes and scripted events. Luckily there are still some devs that make good levels and focus on gameplay first. New Shadow Warrior 2 is looking good IMO. But yeah, the level design of older games is gone. But devs are slowly going back to their roots so may be we'll see older design from some independent studio in the future.

@Cloud_imperium: It looks repulsive (lol) to me really, large square rooms, rectangle corridors, boring waves of enemies and an arcade feel, that is my opinion I guess. As I said earlier in this thread, I'm done with games at the end of this year, got a handful to finish/replay then I'm completely done with gaming, there hasn't been a single game to my liking since 2005 I think it was so I think it's time to throw in the towel... Sad really as gaming was my favourite hobby.

No. That is not true. Games today are no more "straight" A to B as it was in the past. They have become annoyingly cutscene heavy and that needs to die. You have games like FarCry 3 that is no where close to the concept of point A to B, yet you failed to give credit to games like these. You are trying really hard to undermine other FPSs and you are placing MP at a level that is unfounded. You are praising a game that is made up of hexagon to box like rooms connected by various length hallways and elevators as being a better design than games like Dishonored, Halo, Far Cry? Why? Because you backtrack and there are hidden items? The level design in MP is not this showcase of complexity that you are claiming or referencing as and that is assuming that "complex" level design is innately better which its not. Its OK to love MP but to go on this nonsensical bashing of EVERY FPS from 2002 is ridiculous.

Using your logic, what is the secrets in MP but tunnels that stray off from the railway like path? How is MP enemies not mindless? While they do not come in waves you would be fighting these enemies in the same location at the same point doing the same thing over and over and over because they respawn each and everytime. But, for some odd reason MP offers non-mindless enemies that while you don't fight in waves you would be fighting the same bastard numerous times. You stated Halo has horrible level design and was bold enough to say that the art direction is pretty flat. Firstly you give no real substance to why the level design is not only bad but horrible. As for the art direction being flat? What does that even mean? The last two Halo games features some of the strongest and consistent themes throughout the game that were executed exceptionally well.

Firstly, MP would not qualify as massive. It may feel big because you will be revisiting the same location numerous times but its not massive. The core design is rooms and hallways connected by elevators or smaller tunnels. Its the reason why the map looks like a mine shaft. As far as claiming it has hundreds of objectives, you are stretching and stretching a lot. And what are these non linear objectives you are referring to? The only thing I can recall(room for error) is non essential upgrades.

It seems to me that this entire thread is not about discussing FPS of today but just to hate on any FPS game that is not Metroid Prime. If your response to everything is X game has horrible level design and mindless enemies; as if MP enemies are to the contrary, then there is really nothing left to discuss.

Nope...

Metroid Prime had some of the best level design and music EVER but it also had some of the most bland combat and enemies, the space pirates who are only weak to certain energy beams is some the laziest enemy design, Meta Ridley was a terrible boss fight since literally once he's down to 10 percent health it takes like an extra 20 minutes to kill him

Amazing game but far from perfect.

@Pedro While I know for a fact that Metroid Prime is no where near the best example of design in a game, it to me is the last example of good, effective level design that remains interesting, multi-layered and varied through-out in the FPS genre. Far Cry 3 was literally point A to B, they just masked it with a OPERN WERLD11! filled with the exact same boring content you see in literally every OPERN WERLD!111 Ubisoft game and void of absolutely any soul. Regardless, I detest open world games, a clear sign of laziness in design really. I don't have to try hard to undermine them, I simply don't like them, never have and get absolutely no kicks from playing them. Design, gameplay, atmosphere wise none of these aspects come remotely close to hitting the mark for me in any mindless shooter of the last 2 generations, some may get one of the aspects semi-decently done but will be completely lacking in the other areas. If you think games back then were point A to B back then take a look at this awfully true comparison http://www.aspaceman.com/wp-content/gallery/blog_1/fpsmapdesign.jpg which sums it up pretty well, they had open-ended layouts that had multiple paths and multiple objectives and each level being it's own puzzle, the definition of non-linearity in FPS games, think of it being point A-L except mostly many points are achievable in any order. Metroid Prime had a reasonably complex layout with tons of objectives, most achieved in any order you pleased and many being optional which is where it gets my praise over simply just running in a straight line like in Halo and shooting enemies which still makes me feel ill to my stomach when I think back of my playthroughs of Halo 3 and Reach...

That would be true if the game wasn't comprised of hundreds of paths and if every path was specifically intended for an objective in which case is not. While MP didn't have the best AI, and I believe AI really hasn't come far at all since the 90's, combat situations were still really fun and each enemy behaves uniquely in combat, I was actually really impressed with the AI being able to dodge attacks and maneuver pretty well which is certainly more fun than AI crouching behind a rock, standing stagnatly out in the open or just charging you, making them easy to pick off. I'm sorry, given the games nature with backtracking, it would just be stupid if you could kill every enemy on the map lol they did mait funner atleast by changing the combat situations in each room the further you got in the game. True, I did and it does, Halo is a prime example of awful level design in FPS games, just wide point A to B corridors and the art direction was just your generic sci-fi garbage, nothing special at all. It certainly qualifies as massive, especially when compared to FPS games of this era that can be finished in under 3 hours including the large portion of it which is made up of cutscenes. Yeah maybe not essential if you're playing on easier difficulties, hell, the difference between normal and veteran is huge and believe me you'll be hunting down absolutely every powerup.

I don't know what to say anymore, I'm in more shock than anything that design has been completely brushed aside or montonous, boring and drab garbage and there hasn't been a single FPS, my favourite genre no less, that has catered for my taste in FPS. Metroid Prime had many flaws and was in no way near a perfect game but still was a blast to playtrough which is more than I can say for pretty much every shooter I've played in the last 13 years combined..

Funny that you mention Dishonoured which while has decent design compared to games of late it still is absolutely pathetic compared to the greats of the genre.

@excelsior1 I quite liked the pirates but those damn metroids were literally one of the most boring and unsatisfying enemies to fight lol...

So, in summary, every FPS has terrible level design, art design and maps are overly simple with the exception of Metroid Prime simply because you said so. Also Halo art is Sci fi garbage and Metroid Prime is not Sci-Fi garbage because you said so. Well I think its pretty clear by now that logic and reasoning is not going to happen in this thread.

no this thread was just you dismissing any suggestions of good level design in any shooter post 2002 as wrong simply because you said so. there's no discussion to be had, despite people's best efforts to start one with you.

if you don't like any of the games mentioned in this thread it's probably time to hang up your controller / m & k and find a new hobby

@repulsive44552:

From what i understand, Metroid Prime is pretty much a Zelda game from first person perspective, other differences are shooting instead sword fighting & sci-fi setting. I can understand its apeal because games which are heavily inspired by Zelda & Metroid series is also my favorite genre (e.g. Metroidvania games).

But from my knowledge, there are no games from first person perspective which are like a Zelda game, or if you wish, like Metroid Prime series. You simply cannot accept that it seems, so you`re judging a whole genre because of that. Believe me, i`d very much like if there were more games like MP, but unfortunately there aren`t. I agree that FPS games aren`t as good as they were (call of duty clones, simple level design), but if you can`t enjoy games like Bioshock & Half Life 2 - which are considered by many as best examples of FPS genre - then this genre is simply not for you.

By the way, i`m not in the mood to read all this stuff again, but i remember you saying that MP & original Doom were prime examples of level design in FPS games; is there any other game which meets your criteria?

@Pedro: There is no love or effort put into Halo, just another generic, railway, dumbed down FPS #552667. Metroid Prime has great design, great, unique and distinct art direction, great atmosphere, one of the best soundtracks in video game history which is especially surprising coming from a post 2000's shooter and coming from a Nintendo studio of all places, while far up the list of my favourite FPS games, it just happened to be the last game that nailed a lot of aspects that define a good FPS game really, I just find it baffling that a genre, once overflowing with talent has now become the dumbed down, soulless mess it is today.

@Macutchi Eh, agreed sadly, just going to have to accept that gaming will never be what it was before and that mediocrity is the ultimate goal of which developers these days still struggle to achieve.

@alex839 Metroid Prime is heavily Unreal, Hexen inspired, sad that no-one takes inspiration from actual good shooters anymore, more insultingly is that crap like Shadow Warrior 2013, Serious Sam and Wolfenstein TNO are considered oldschool shooters now so you know the hole is pretty damn deep.

It's not really fair to call Halo a repetitive hallway shooter compared to Metroid Prime. Yeah halo can get repetitive, but in Metroid Prime you check your map every five seconds, and that's an issue halo does not have. Different players like different design choices.

@EPICCOMMANDER: Yeah, having to explore, use maps and navigate is overrated, much prefer running in straight line and shooting waves of enemies while hiding behind rocks to regenerate my life. Boring.

I love Halo, think it's fantastic, but to each their own.

Metroid Prime is a fine series, but we don't want or need every FPS to be or play exactly like Metroid Prime.

No, it's not the last good FPS ever made. That kind of mentality prevents you from approaching new games with a fresh perspective. You'll forever be comparing upcoming games to whatever game that held your fancy so many years ago. It's a bias set in concrete that you really need to chisel your way out of. Hell, I found the game Bulletstorm to be a lot more fun in ways that Metroid Prime will never be. I want great games to do what they set out to do, not to be constantly held up to some arbitrary standard of an older generation of gaming which only holds merit by some because of the nostalgia factor. Metroid Prime had its time, and now new games are having theirs. This generation of gamers will grow up comparing games of the future with what they played today, and the same ridiculous comparisons will continue to be made. Don't date yourself by being one of those "Back in my day..." gamers.

I'd put Half-life 2 as slightly better than Prime. It's also much more of a FPS. I'd put Prime close behind it though.

@gamerguru100: No one plays COD for Single player unless they are bored or maybe you just like that.

A lot of people still play single player campaigns in Call of Duty, including the older ones. Call of Duty is both single player and multiplayer centric, unlike Battlefield, which is multiplayer centric. I still like to play missions in MW2 and World at War especially. However, the more recent Call of Duty campaigns aren't as memorable. Maybe just my nostalgia boots kicking. Multiplayer is getting less and less interesting to me too. My favorite multiplayer from CoD is the first Black Ops; I've had the most fun there. I'd include CoD 4 and World at War if they weren't hacker fests.

Call of Duty campaigns do get attention, hence E3 always showing off the new gameplay of each CoD that comes out every year. No one cares about Battlefield campaigns though. Makes me wonder why DICE even bothers to put campaigns in their games when they're clearly centered around multiplayer.

It's not even a FPS.

And there have been games like STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl, Bulletstorm, Far Cry 3, Crysis, Dishonored, Republic Commando, Team Fortress 2 and countless others that are better shooters.