Is Sony is trouble??

This isn't meant to be some doomsday thread or anything.  I'm just curious.  The PS3 isn't dead, but it has definitely had a tough go of things so far.  Also, it appears blu ray isn't really taking off so far.  I mean, they had to sink enormous amonuts of money into R&D for the PS3 and Blu Ray.  If blu ray doesnt catch on as the next gen DVD, and the PS3 doesn't start making money, will Sony be able to survive, or do they have other sources of income that can tide them over?  I know they have various other electronics, TVs and the like, but i wasn't aware that they made much money from those.

This isn't meant to be some doomsday thread or anything. I'm just curious. The PS3 isn't dead, but it has definitely had a tough go of things so far. Also, it appears blu ray isn't really taking off so far. I mean, they had to sink enormous amonuts of money into R&D for the PS3 and Blu Ray. If blu ray doesnt catch on as the next gen DVD, and the PS3 doesn't start making money, will Sony be able to survive, or do they have other sources of income that can tide them over? I know they have various other electronics, TVs and the like, but i wasn't aware that they made much money from those.

sheridan891

Red: Blu-Ray has been outselling HDDVD 3:1 for several months now.  I don't know where you got this from.

Green: Sony is one of, if not, the biggest hardware manufacturer on the planet. Even if Sony is forced to shut down their games AND Blu-Ray divisions (purely hypothetical, will never happen), they will continue making huge profits. 

Blue: That's where a majority of their profits come from.

ANy new format takes time to bring to market. People keep thinking that because they aren't moving millions of decks and/or software out the door like lightning that it's a "failure". In this case it'll be a little slower due to the format war, but that's becoming less and less of an issue every week. By the time the big Christmas pushes hit, you'll see a big jump in sales.

DVD didn't have a million seller until 2000. and it debuted in March 1997.

Blue: That's where a majority of their profits come from.

Actually the PlayStation division has been what's keeping the company afloat the last 5 or 6 years. But yes, their consumer electronics, but more than ever their PROFESSIONAL gear, is what keeps them up there. People keep forgetting that when you buy a DVD, that the source tape was almost always DigiBETA, and that MiniDisc is still plenty popular in Asia, and more and more for professional sound recording due to its good quality, light weight and long battery life. Sound guys in hollywood dumped their heavy analog decks for a belt-size minidisc.

Blu-Ray is doing very well, actually. PS3 still has a good chance, it just needs some really good exclusives, and Sony has movies, music, and tvs/vcrs to sell, all of which bring in a lot of monies. The only reason Sony got into gaming was because of those divisions.

In order for Sony to go down in flames, a lot of crazy **** has to happen. 

ANy new format takes time to bring to market. People keep thinking that because they aren't moving millions of decks and/or software out the door like lightning that it's a "failure". In this case it'll be a little slower due to the format war, but that's becoming less and less of an issue every week. By the time the big Christmas pushes hit, you'll see a big jump in sales.

DVD didn't have a million seller until 2000. and it debuted in March 1997.

Blue: That's where a majority of their profits come from.
Kodai_kun

Actually the PlayStation division has been what's keeping the company afloat the last 5 or 6 years. But yes, their consumer electronics, but more than ever their PROFESSIONAL gear, is what keeps them up there. People keep forgetting that when you buy a DVD, that the source tape was almost always DigiBETA, and that MiniDisc is still plenty popular in Asia, and more and more for professional sound recording due to its good quality, light weight and long battery life. Sound guys in hollywood dumped their heavy analog decks for a belt-size minidisc.

Pretty much...The Playstation Brand you can say has been thier Golden Egg.

But to be honest...They are far too big to be taken out just because thier PS Brand is doing poorly right now. Alot of people keep saying MS is the big bad monoply. Its kind of Funny because you take a look at Sony. What don't they have thier hand in? Out of the big 7 movie companies. They own 2. MGM and Sony Pictures(Includes Tristar/Columbia and many more) They also made Spiderman Movies(Definitly a huge plus to Sony), They own one of the Four Big Music Companies, They own Vaoi, TVs, Stereoes, pretty much anything you can think of. They have some imput in it. Put it this way...If they were an American Company. They would have been broken up into smaller ones years ago lol.

But more to the point. Sony will not die out so easily. They are going to take a severe hit in the Entertainment Department...Since PS brand really has been the one you can say keeping that afloat. But no like how you mean. Its just the Sony product as of late...About the only thing really selling them compared to Toshiba or Hitachi or LG(LG has Zenith Now)...Has been a Sony Name on it. People buy it because of Sony. You can say they buy it off Nostalgy. The PS Brand really has been the only exception to that as of late. You can say it has become the face of the company. Not to mention...PS2 was the most selling DVD Player in the world. And how much media did that get them for it?

Lets also think about how much the PS3 can get...If BluRay takes off...How many BluRay players are in homes then? 10mil-20mil? Opps..profit to movie division. Or if they ever get thier online digitual disturbition set up...Music, Movies, TV? They own stuff like the Three Stooges and all that jazz now. Not to mention how with PS Brand in every house and advertisement through home...They can rack in money with that and advertise thier own products for free. 

But to be honest...They are far too big to be taken out just because thier PS Brand is doing poorly right now. Alot of people keep saying MS is the big bad monoply. Its kind of Funny because you take a look at Sony. What don't they have thier hand in? Out of the big 7 movie companies. They own 2. MGM and Sony Pictures(Includes Tristar/Columbia and many more) They also made Spiderman Movies(Definitly a huge plus to Sony), They own one of the Four Big Music Companies, They own Vaoi, TVs, Stereoes, pretty much anything you can think of. They have some imput in it. Put it this way...If they were an American Company. They would have been broken up into smaller ones years ago lol.Acenso

Monopoly isn't about making many things, but about being the only one making them. Sony makes many things, but there are other companies making them, you have said they own 2 big movie companies, but there are more that they don't own. They make a lot of electronics, but other companies as Samsung do too.

On the other hand Microsoft has a strong monopoly in operating systems, there is a lot of people using windows, for most of the PC games that are in the market you need windows, etc. And that's the problem, their monopoly with windows, and the use they can do with it, as for example stuffing channels last christmas, of streaming media from your windows to only microsoft devices.

Fortunately looks like it isn't so bad, due to some laws, and I'm actually using a microsoft wireless keyboard that works on linux.

About the original question,  "Is Sony is trouble??", I think that yes, Sony is trouble.

[QUOTE="sheridan891"]

This isn't meant to be some doomsday thread or anything. I'm just curious. The PS3 isn't dead, but it has definitely had a tough go of things so far. Also, it appears blu ray isn't really taking off so far. I mean, they had to sink enormous amonuts of money into R&D for the PS3 and Blu Ray. If blu ray doesnt catch on as the next gen DVD, and the PS3 doesn't start making money, will Sony be able to survive, or do they have other sources of income that can tide them over? I know they have various other electronics, TVs and the like, but i wasn't aware that they made much money from those.

Zeke129

Red: Blu-Ray has been outselling HDDVD 3:1 for several months now.  I don't know where you got this from.

Green: Sony is one of, if not, the biggest hardware manufacturer on the planet. Even if Sony is forced to shut down their games AND Blu-Ray divisions (purely hypothetical, will never happen), they will continue making huge profits. 

Blue: That's where a majority of their profits come from.

Exactly, people need to stop with threads like this, The PS3 hasn't even been a year yet and people are already saying they are doom.

Put it this way...If they were an American Company. They would have been broken up into smaller ones years ago lol.

Very unlikely. Sony has never been that dominant. NBC owns Universal, and is in turn owned by General Electric. WalMart controls 1/3 of all the media sold in the US. As long as they keep their bribes coming, they'd never be touched just like all the other multinationals.

I'll agree that Sony, as a consumer brand has been dying for awhile. The low-end gear isn't that good. However their high ends like their big HDTVs are just fine. The real problem is that the low-mid is being devoured by the Chinese, and you can't compete with them, even with some creative bookkeeping and not get the government all over you (the Chinese OEMs are in bed with the Triads and the government subsidies)

You're also right that the PS3 is a means to an end. they want you to turn on your playstation, and order a movie from PS Online, then while it downloads surf and buy a book from amazon (that they get a referral payoff for), and jazz up your home avatar with new duds ($5)

That's why Live on 360 has been so successful. THey're nickle and diming you really really well, and that, combined with $10 game royalties, in-game/system advertising, and probably a dime from every Blu-Ray assumign they use AVC will make up what they've spent quite nicely.

Oh Sony doesn't really own MGM. THey own a large piece of it. In fact the other member companies moved control of the distribution of their movies back to Fox (where MGM had been before the buyout) to avoid too much Sony control of it. Other owners include Comcast.

The major calculation mistake that Sony made was that A- There were more people than there actually were who would buy a PS3 at full price and B- That the PS2 would remain a viable platform without solid, full-on first party support, which has been eroding, and will pretty much cut off after this year. The third parties looking to develop on something with last-gen power are all going Wii because they can make a quick and cheap party game and sell a ton of them, or developing for Live Arcade.

With the Blue-ray yes i do believe they made a mistake, but i hope they captalize on it soon. 

From a video game standpoint, I don't think PS3 owners have much to worry about. At the very worst, I see the system ending up like the N64 in that it has barely any exclusive games and is a distant last, but it will still have a few really awesome games that make you feel like it was worth it.AtomicTangerine

Sony wont sell the most but they wont be a distant last, espiecally considering worldwide they will sell more units than 360 eventually.  Why?  IM not sure, outside of NA 360 doesnt sell well.  But thats the way it is. 

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]From a video game standpoint, I don't think PS3 owners have much to worry about. At the very worst, I see the system ending up like the N64 in that it has barely any exclusive games and is a distant last, but it will still have a few really awesome games that make you feel like it was worth it.F1Lengend

Sony wont sell the most but they wont be a distant last, espiecally considering worldwide they will sell more units than 360 eventually.  Why?  IM not sure, outside of NA 360 doesnt sell well.  But thats the way it is. 

The thing is that I don't like either Sony or MS is really competing with Nintendo but rather amongst themselves, and really this gen I think it has become more about software (games, online media, offline media) than moving units. MS & Sony are really both looking to score huge profits outside of simply selling consoles.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Sony is in trouble, but the PS3 is. Actually, if we're being honest here, next-gen as a whole is in trouble. The price is simply too high and the public is rejecting it. Not being resistant to it, but flat out rejecting it. The PS3 is getting walloped in its homeland, and the 360 can barely move more than a few hundred thousand units a month in its strongest territory.

The writing is on the wall here - for both systems. They have a choice: Either buck up and drop the price, or wind up sucking wind down the road. I don't know that option one is really an option for either company, though. It's literally going to take years before these systems begin to sell as agressively as the PS2 did, if at all. And the problem is, by that time there will already have been a winner crowned.

There isn't really an easy way out for either company. Both options kind of suck. It's now a matter of whether they'd like to bleed out fast by dropping the price (thus causing even more massive hemmorhaging of money), or bleed to death drop by beautiful drop by sticking with the current pricetag.

I've been in this situation in chess before, and I don't think I've ever pulled out a win. Only more graceful defeats.

[QUOTE="sheridan891"]

This isn't meant to be some doomsday thread or anything. I'm just curious. The PS3 isn't dead, but it has definitely had a tough go of things so far. Also, it appears blu ray isn't really taking off so far. I mean, they had to sink enormous amonuts of money into R&D for the PS3 and Blu Ray. If blu ray doesnt catch on as the next gen DVD, and the PS3 doesn't start making money, will Sony be able to survive, or do they have other sources of income that can tide them over? I know they have various other electronics, TVs and the like, but i wasn't aware that they made much money from those.

Zeke129

Red: Blu-Ray has been outselling HDDVD 3:1 for several months now.  I don't know where you got this from.

Green: Sony is one of, if not, the biggest hardware manufacturer on the planet. Even if Sony is forced to shut down their games AND Blu-Ray divisions (purely hypothetical, will never happen), they will continue making huge profits. 

Blue: That's where a majority of their profits come from.

2.) Actually, the video games business has been keeping Sony afloat. They are billions in debt due to the heavy losses from their non-video game divisions. The Playstation brand continues to be the company's only saving grace. They have a lot riding on the success of the PS3 and Blu-Ray.

3.) See above.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Sony is in trouble, but the PS3 is. Actually, if we're being honest here, next-gen as a whole is in trouble. The price is simply too high and the public is rejecting it. Not being resistant to it, but flat out rejecting it. The PS3 is getting walloped in its homeland, and the 360 can barely move more than a few hundred thousand units a month in its strongest territory.

The writing is on the wall here - for both systems. They have a choice: Either buck up and drop the price, or wind up sucking wind down the road. I don't know that option one is really an option for either company, though. It's literally going to take years before these systems begin to sell as agressively as the PS2 did, if at all. And the problem is, by that time there will already have been a winner crowned.

There isn't really an easy way out for either company. Both options kind of suck. It's now a matter of whether they'd like to bleed out fast by dropping the price (thus causing even more massive hemmorhaging of money), or bleed to death drop by beautiful drop by sticking with the current pricetag.

I've been in this situation in chess before, and I don't think I've ever pulled out a win. Only more graceful defeats.

Shame-usBlackley

Probably the best Truth yet for next gen.

Both Opitions right now...Are pretty much sucky.

360 has a very good line up...But Crappy Hardware, Having to Pay for Online(Its good...But start lowering the price or something), and tons of crappy microtransactions and costly accesories. Sorry to say but the 120gig HDD should be 120 at the most... Personally I think 99 is a far price and lower the 20gig to 49. And just keep memory cards at 30.

While the PS3's line up is going to be very skimpy of games for a while...Not to mention the questionable online(Looks to be the same as PS2...Good 1st party. Meh 3rd), The huge initial costs.

And in general the BS 60dollar game price...As much as I want to say. The best opition for either is too wait. 

Are Sony disappointed with th way things have gone for PS3? Probably.

Are all the Sony haters having a field-day crowing about it? Oh yes!

Does anyone here actually know how the mega-corp's financiers are viewing all this? No way!

Yes, Sony is trouble.

Their quality on the PS2 shows how much they care about the consumer. My PS2 won't read my joysticks. My friends PS2 died. My other friends PS2 has to be slapped to work. 

1.) That doesn't mean Blu-Ray is taking off. Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray together make up less than one percent of total movie sales. Neither is "taking off", and your comparison of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray sales is not reaaly accurate. Yes, Blu-Ray has been selling more recently (due to the release of the PS3 and a couple million people having a Blu-Ray player right in their laps all of a sudden), but HD-DVD has sold more standalone players, possibly indicating that for the long-term, more people are interested in sticking it with HD-DVD.

Blu-Ray has been selling more since about 6 weeks after the hard launch (November with the PS3). Just like DVD soft launched in March and hard launched the following September. Soft launch in June, hard in November.

Blu-Ray is increasing its lead each and every week, the Nielsen numbers don't lie. Attach rate is always the false comparison a lot of HD DVD fans bring up, forgetting that the people who bought HD-DVD are movie/Home theater geeks with piles of disposible income who buy 100+ DVDs a year. And studios don't care how many discs are going to one person, just how many they sell total, and how many they COULD sell. So selling 8 discs to 10 people is far better than selling 80 to 1 person, because that one person is likely pretty much tapped out at 80 in 1 year, but there's room to squeeze those 10.

Price cuts all around!

I am waiting for price cuts...I am sure Sony will do fine. But it's not going to be like last gen.

I hope it stays competetive, because that's good for customers.

so it sounds like sony's survival isn't hinged on the PS3 and blu ray, which makes sense.  I did read some people say the Blu ray is taking off, but i do have a hard time believing that, because i dont personally know anyone who has one that isn't a PS3.  I mean, obviously that cant be an accurate barometer for everyone else, but generally when something is becoming mainstream, i know some people that have one.  I dont think the market is really craving high def movies just yet.  I remember when the PS2 came out and a big selling point was that it was a cheaper DVD player even when early in its life it didn't have a whole lot of games.  This time around, people dont seem to care as much.

I hope it stays competetive, because that's good for customers.

Actually it's not good in this case. Movie studios have far too much depth of catalog to support multiple formats. A single studio (there are 8 majors) has up to 5000 MOVIES alone, not counting TV properties and new material. Between 360, PS2, PS3, DS Cube and Wii I seriously doubt any retailer stocks more than 700 at any one time, total, and the game industry's back catalog is lucky to go back 5 years. The retailers aren't carrying 2 of every title, and the studios aren't going to stock it.

So until the war is over, the retailers aren't going ot devote serious shelf space, J6P isn't going to buy because they're worried about wasting their $$, and studios won't start hitting the catalog hard because the customer base isn't there yet.

Sony? Not so much...the PS3? YES!

The thing needs games and a price cut. I seriously can't imagine the PS3 really picking up a good amount of steam until its at $450 or less. Even at $500, I just don't quite see it being enough to get people really excited.

I do think hardcore gamers (that aren't complete fanboys) recognize the potential of the PS3 and that's why I can see it getting away with a price higher than the 360 can, but Sony really needs bite the bullet to get it there.

F1Lengendmeganosh

[QUOTE="meganosh"]F1LengendThe_Duke_Lives

Hey hey hey! KOTOR 2 was broken and lacking content because LucasArts made Obsidian rush it for the holidays, but in many ways it was better than its predecessor. I think that if Obsidian had had enough time to finish it, it would have surpassed the original on all counts. So a good developer can still make "crap" if the publisher shoves them around too much.

I think Morrowind was a better console game (i.e. masterpiece) than KOTOR.