Is Motomu Toriyama a creep?

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Pffrbt

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#1 Pffrbt
Member since 2010 • 6612 Posts

Four out of five of the games he's had a directing position on share a theme of undressing woman or changing them into skimpy outfits.

Final Fantasy 13-2: Gives Serah a skin tight outfit for no apparent reason, a DLC bikini, and features a scene where all of Lightning's clothes fly off and the camera spins around her while she's naked.

Lightning Returns: Has a main mechanic of changing Lightning's clothes in battle. Her default outfit makes her look like a dominatrix. He also proudly promoted the fact that they give Lightning bigger boobs.

Final Fantasy X-2: Has a main mechanic of changing the female protagonists' clothes in battle. It also features Yuna and Rikku wearing outfits that make them borderline naked, despite this being kind of out of character.

The 3rd Birthday: More and more of the main character's clothes get torn off the more damage she takes. Also feature various costumes for her, such as a maid outfit and a bikini. Also feature a secret ending scene where she touches herself and moans.

There's also this: "Toriyama has noted that, considering the long development period of a Final Fantasy game, he would need to essentially "fall in love at first sight" with a character so he can really have the high morale and motivation to keep creating the game."

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Bigboi500

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#3  Edited By Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

How does admiring the female form make him creepy? Have you seen the old Star Trek series? Almost every episode has a chick wearing a skimpy outfit and kissing James T Kirk. Have you seen Conan the Barbarian comic books? Have you ever listened to music? Almost every song in existence talks about sex. Have you ever watched Two and a Half Men?

Yeah I could go on forever here...

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Archangel3371

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#4 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44313 Posts

@Bigboi500 said:

How does admiring the female form make him creepy? Have you seen the old Star Trek series? Almost every episode has a chick wearing a skimpy outfit and kissing James T Kirk. Have you seen Conan the Barbarian comic books? Have you ever listened to music? Almost every song in existence talks about sex. Have you ever watched Two and a Half Men?

Yeah I could go on forever here...

Agreed. For some reason when it comes to the topic of sex or sexiness in video games people get freaked out but not so much in other mediums. Perhaps it's just the part of gaming growing older and the other mediums experienced similar things in their early days.

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Black_Knight_00

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#5 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts

He's a game developer from Japan, what do you think?

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Pffrbt

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#6 Pffrbt
Member since 2010 • 6612 Posts

@Bigboi500 said:

How does admiring the female form make him creepy?

It doesn't. Making three game centering around a protagonist no one likes because he wants to have sex with her, having a fixation with undressing woman and changing their clothes, and making scenes of female character (who was previously respectable) completely naked with plenty of sideboob shots and her rubbing herself and moaning makes him creepy. There's a difference between admiring the female form and putting your fetishes on full public display through multiple games and interviews. Most people have the sense to have some decency, or at the very least have some sense of self-awareness about what they're doing. Toriyama seems to have neither.

"Have you seen the old Star Trek series?"
No.

"Have you seen Conan the Barbarian comic books?"
No. The movie and art certainly creeped me out though.

"Have you ever listened to music?"
Yes. Most of the music I listen to that even talks about sex does so in a manner that isn't wildy fetishistic and has some self-awareness and sense of irony.

"Have you ever watched Two and a Half Men?"
God no.

Much like reading the Twilight series feels like reading some woman's creepy fantasy she should've kept to herself, playing Toriyama's games feels very much like I'm playing through a middle aged man's creepy fetishes.

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platinumking320

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#7 platinumking320
Member since 2003 • 668 Posts

@Pffrbt: Perhaps see what relationships are like in Japan at large, and aging population issue. With that in context one can EASILY understand. Might not approve based on our relationships in less repressed western culture, but can certainly understand. These things are going to affect creative directors and not everyones going to hide it or even feel like they have to. For Kojima it's additional studio income in selling toys. Gotta keep the lights on.

But yeah if it wasn't for Kindgom Hearts. Nomura or Kitase should've been in the driver's seat of all the main games with Toriyamas stuff as side projects, PS Vita ware and 2nd interpretations. We're finally seeing this 'friendly casual shove-aside' with Versus 13 becoming FFXV. Its like....

"Wasn't that great gamers? Ok Motomu-san you can go play with your doll-ladies, we're gonna try to resuscitate our franchise now m'kay?

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Jag85

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#8  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19587 Posts

Let's see...

GTA has weak, personality-less, strippers and hookers, wearing skimpy outfits, who you can bang and then murder... That's definitely not creepy and absolutely not sexist.

FF has arse-kicking heroines who happen to wear skimpy outfits... Those Japanese folks are so creepy and sexist!

...The hypocrisy and double-standards from some gamers is mind-boggling.

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Articuno76

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#9 Articuno76
Member since 2004 • 19799 Posts

@Pffrbt said:

@Bigboi500 said:

How does admiring the female form make him creepy?

It doesn't. Making three game centering around a protagonist no one likes because he wants to have sex with her, having a fixation with undressing woman and changing their clothes, and making scenes of female character (who was previously respectable) completely naked with plenty of sideboob shots and her rubbing herself and moaning makes him creepy. There's a difference between admiring the female form and putting your fetishes on full public display through multiple games and interviews. Most people have the sense to have some decency, or at the very least have some sense of self-awareness about what they're doing. Toriyama seems to have neither.

"Have you seen the old Star Trek series?"

No.

"Have you seen Conan the Barbarian comic books?"

No. The movie and art certainly creeped me out though.

"Have you ever listened to music?"

Yes. Most of the music I listen to that even talks about sex does so in a manner that isn't wildy fetishistic and has some self-awareness and sense of irony.

"Have you ever watched Two and a Half Men?"

God no.

Much like reading the Twilight series feels like reading some woman's creepy fantasy she should've kept to herself, playing Toriyama's games feels very much like I'm playing through a middle aged man's creepy fetishes.

Yeah, when you put it like that and look at his games there's definitely a trend. I guess people don't see it because there have been non-Toriyama releases between Toriyama releases. But if there wasn't and the games came out one-after-another I think people would see a trend there.

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platinumking320

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#10 platinumking320
Member since 2003 • 668 Posts

@Jag85: There's only so far that we can infer into a game creator's, filmmaker or author's worldview. A lot of functional people are gonna use the realm of fiction as a dumping ground for their fantasies.

As long as their works don't completely collapse as disjointed, horrendous train wrecks from (insert your porn of choice) overload. Or disturbing social propaganda. We can also infer these folks probably have the same amount of social balance and inhibitions as the rest of us. For most creators and authors these fantasies are....

"why I got into show-business baby. I got dreams too." - Dave Chappelle


Far as I know. GTA's Houser bro's are mobster-criminal movie lovers, who's mom played Moffat in 'Get Carter' and they wanted the freedom to push the boundaries of standards and practices in fiction. Not even social moral boundaries are gonna stop em. Not to mention the chaos simulator of their youth is a massive brand. And the millions of other gamers that are OK with it have expectations as well.

Hideki Kamiya creates carefree, quippy rock-star personalities, like Dante and Viewtiful Joe but is HARDLY as charming to gamers on Twitter.

Team Ninja gave us Dead or Alive Beach volleyball, but while developing the combat, they weren't the writers that royally fucked up Samus in Other M. That was a collaborative mess.

Looking at FEZ would you have known enough about Phil Fish to have some ambivalence?


Lots of greatest works in games books and films, given to us over generations, came from people we'd now consider psycho. But in post analysis it's hardly evidence to suddenly add their names to an International danger watch list.

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#11 Refresh220
Member since 2014 • 49 Posts

He's just trying to please the fans.

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Pffrbt

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#12 Pffrbt
Member since 2010 • 6612 Posts

@Jag85 said:

Let's see...

GTA has weak, personality-less, strippers and hookers, wearing skimpy outfits, who you can bang and then murder... That's definitely not creepy and absolutely not sexist.

FF has arse-kicking heroines who happen to wear skimpy outfits... Those Japanese folks are so creepy and sexist!

...The hypocrisy and double-standards from some gamers is mind-boggling.

You would have a point if not for the fact that I never defended GTA or said I found those aspects appealing. Then there's the fact that GTA is hamfisted, cartoonish satire and not completely sincere like Toriyama's games. Then there's the fact that banging hookers and then killing them are choices left completely up to the player, while Toriyama's fetishes are mandatory while playing the game. Then there's the fact that my remarks about Toriyama were about him specifically and not the Japanese as a whole.

In other words everything you said was off base and there was no reason to bring GTA up in the first place.