David Jaffe couldn't care less about next generation

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News of the next generation of consoles has sparked gamers' interest, what with word that the next Xbox may not have a disc drive and that the PlayStation 4 is reportedly ditching the Cell processor, but Twisted Metal and God of War developer David Jaffe is not yet compelled by the new technologies.

"I couldn't care less about next-gen," Jaffe told Edge. "I started at Sony Imagesoft doing Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis games, and I went through that to PS1, then PS2, PS3, Vita… You go through the cycle enough and you realize today's 'Oh my f****** God' is tomorrow's 'Ehh, whatever.'"

"Ultimately, this is all going to be yesterday's news and it's about the experience, the game," he added. "Unless we're talking about holodecks, or AI that's so amazing it can actually write a compelling story around you procedurally based on your choices, I'm not interested."

Jaffe told the site that the new generation of consoles will make game development more difficult for "ambitious" projects. He said instead of focusing attention on power, he hopes that console manufacturers aim to create systems with greater functionality.

"I'm no longer that excited about next-gen technology; it means budgets go up," he says. "It sucks. The biggest thing I want is what you get from the PSP and the 3DS; it's always on, there's a sleep mode and I can just hit a button and I'm right back where I was and I don't have to go through all the boot-up s***."

Jaffe is on his way out of Eat Sleep Play, the studio he co-founded in 2007. He will stay on at the company to see Twisted Metal through its international launch. The vehicular combat game shipped in North America last month and makes its way to retail in Europe this Friday.

The longtime developer is planning to open a studio in San Diego, California, though it is not clear what Jaffe will work on there. It was suggested that he would create casual games, but Jaffe clarified, saying, "I have zero plans to make games like Farmville and Angry Birds."

Gamespot

How do you guys feel about Jaffe's words on the subject?

I like Jaffe a lot, but it's pretty easy to see that he's trying to justify his decision to work on more casual titles. Which is kind of stupid, really, seeing as the tech on handhelds and iOs devices ain't exactly ARCHAIC, you know? The other thing is this: Jaffe has done a lot more talking and a whole lot less producing this generation. The PS3 has been out since '06 and Jaffe has released one downloadable title and a Twisted Metal remake -- hardly an untapped creative fount if you ask me. Speaking of downloadable games, if Jaffe is so hot to trot on more simple, back-to-basics experiences, why hasn't he been releasing them on on PSN, XBLA, Steam, or the App Store? If I recall correctly, it was HIS (or at least partially his) decision when EatSleepPlay was formed to decide where and on which platforms his games (or in this case "game," singular) appreared on, so if he chose the PS3 and that somehow jammed him up creatively, that's his fault, not the industry's, and not technology's. There were PLENTY of other outlets for him to release and make games on that others have already been vastly successful on. Hell, for a hundred dollars, Jaffe could've released an indie game on Live Arcade if it was really a tech and money problem.

Bottom line: Jaffe should look inside a bit. It's obvious he's drying up on ideas and for some reason, be it past allegiances or whatever, chose to limit himself as far as what type of channels his games would appear in, despite there being ALL KINDS OF DEVICES that he could have put them on with his new "independent" studio. But now he wants to blame it on technology for some reason, like technology was responsible for his lack of creative throughput this generation and not himself personally, which seems like a giant load of bullshi*, but whatever. This is a tech-driven business. It moves fast, like all tech-driven businesses do. Hearing Jaffe talk, I keep hearing Nintendo at a press conference telling the world that CDs weren't needed when the Playstation was about to come out. Tech is going to move forward whether any of us like it or not. This includes Jaffe. There are all kinds of ways you can make and release games these days. I think Jaffe is more pissed at himself and just wants to shi* on an easier target than himself, because saying, "I haven't really done much lately" is too hard for him. Or maybe he just has his head up his ass, I don't know. Could be either. Regardless, his argument's pretty stupid and transparently disingenuous, and I say that as a FAN of his work. He needs to stop blaming everything else and decided if he has any ideas that are going to translate into good games, pick one of the myriad ways available to release games on, and DO it. When he has released more than a milquetoast downloadable game and a car combat game (which is currently a DEAD genre, by the way) then let's get back to talking about other issues, because the problem for Jaffe as I see it right now, is more that he hasn't made much of anything over the last six+ years, and less of a technological issue.

I disagree with his ideas. Modern generation consoles are chasing their tales. That isn't to say the games being released on them are bad, but given current limitations it seems as if ambitious developers have to cut content simply because the current consoles can't handle them. Skyrim comes to mind. It's a great game, but what about The Elder Scrolls on next generation consoles? Better animations, longer draw distances, better framerate.

I recently bought a 3DS, and while playing Resident Evil Revelations I was amazed at how well that little system was handling the game. It looks great, and it's something that was pretty much undoable on the DS. I've seen better visuals, of course, but just seeing something pushed forward like that is cool to see.

I disagree with his ideas. Modern generation consoles are chasing their tales. That isn't to say the games being released on them are bad, but given current limitations it seems as if ambitious developers have to cut content simply because the current consoles can't handle them. Skyrim comes to mind. It's a great game, but what about The Elder Scrolls on next generation consoles? Better animations, longer draw distances, better framerate.

I recently bought a 3DS, and while playing Resident Evil Revelations I was amazed at how well that little system was handling the game. It looks great, and it's something that was pretty much undoable on the DS. I've seen better visuals, of course, but just seeing something pushed forward like that is cool to see.

IndianaPwns39

Skyrim's problems spring from Bethesda's laziness and incompetence, not from hardware limitations (even the PC version saw a ton of patches).

I like Jaffe a lot, but it's pretty easy to see that he's trying to justify his decision to work on more casual titles. Which is kind of stupid, really, seeing as the tech on handhelds and iOs devices ain't exactly ARCHAIC, you know? The other thing is this: Jaffe has done a lot more talking and a whole lot less producing this generation. The PS3 has been out since '06 and Jaffe has released one downloadable title and a Twisted Metal remake -- hardly an untapped creative fount if you ask me. Speaking of downloadable games, if Jaffe is so hot to trot on more simple, back-to-basics experiences, why hasn't he been releasing them on on PSN, XBLA, Steam, or the App Store? If I recall correctly, it was HIS (or at least partially his) decision when EatSleepPlay was formed to decide where and on which platforms his games (or in this case "game," singular) appreared on, so if he chose the PS3 and that somehow jammed him up creatively, that's his fault, not the industry's, and not technology's. There were PLENTY of other outlets for him to release and make games on that others have already been vastly successful on. Hell, for a hundred dollars, Jaffe could've released an indie game on Live Arcade if it was really a tech and money problem.

Bottom line: Jaffe should look inside a bit. It's obvious he's drying up on ideas and for some reason, be it past allegiances or whatever, chose to limit himself as far as what type of channels his games would appear in, despite there being ALL KINDS OF DEVICES that he could have put them on with his new "independent" studio. But now he wants to blame it on technology for some reason, like technology was responsible for his lack of creative throughput this generation and not himself personally, which seems like a giant load of bullshi*, but whatever. This is a tech-driven business. It moves fast, like all tech-driven businesses do. Hearing Jaffe talk, I keep hearing Nintendo at a press conference telling the world that CDs weren't needed when the Playstation was about to come out. Tech is going to move forward whether any of us like it or not. This includes Jaffe. There are all kinds of ways you can make and release games these days. I think Jaffe is more pissed at himself and just wants to shi* on an easier target than himself, because saying, "I haven't really done much lately" is too hard for him. Or maybe he just has his head up his ass, I don't know. Could be either. Regardless, his argument's pretty stupid and transparently disingenuous, and I say that as a FAN of his work. He needs to stop blaming everything else and decided if he has any ideas that are going to translate into good games, pick one of the myriad ways available to release games on, and DO it. When he has released more than a milquetoast downloadable game and a car combat game (which is currently a DEAD genre, by the way) then let's get back to talking about other issues, because the problem for Jaffe as I see it right now, is more that he hasn't made much of anything over the last six+ years, and less of a technological issue.

Shame-usBlackley

Shamus, TM isn't a remake, all the content is original (though if you buy it do, it for the fun multiplayer, not the awful campaign).

Also, I've got no problem with developers going the road less travelled in terms of development. Lots of perfectly good shooters are released and lots of them die quiet deaths at retail despite the immense popularity of the genre (nods towards the multiplat Darkness 2, which unlike TM, failed to chart its first month of release) just because people who already have perfectly good shooters see no reason to buy them (due to online play, someone can play the same shooter for months or even years).

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

I disagree with his ideas. Modern generation consoles are chasing their tales. That isn't to say the games being released on them are bad, but given current limitations it seems as if ambitious developers have to cut content simply because the current consoles can't handle them. Skyrim comes to mind. It's a great game, but what about The Elder Scrolls on next generation consoles? Better animations, longer draw distances, better framerate.

I recently bought a 3DS, and while playing Resident Evil Revelations I was amazed at how well that little system was handling the game. It looks great, and it's something that was pretty much undoable on the DS. I've seen better visuals, of course, but just seeing something pushed forward like that is cool to see.

CarnageHeart

Skyrim's problems spring from Bethesda's laziness and incompetence, not from hardware limitations (even the PC version saw a ton of patches).

I'm not saying so much the technical issues that shipped with the game that could have (and should have) been patched before release. I'm talking about things like better animations, superior AI, or simply more weapons and things that are limited by hardware these days.

Shamus, TM isn't a remake, all the content is original (though if you buy it do, it for the fun multiplayer, not the awful campaign).

Also, I've got no problem with developers going the road less travelled in terms of development. Lots of perfectly good shooters are released and lots of them die quiet deaths at retail despite the immense popularity of the genre (nods towards the multiplat Darkness 2, which unlike TM, failed to chart its first month of release) just because people who already have perfectly good shooters see no reason to buy them (due to online play, someone can play the same shooter for months or even years).

CarnageHeart

Fair enough on Twisted Metal.

And I don't have a problem with developers forging their own path either. What I take issue with is that is seems like Jaffe is blaming his woes on technology, and that's just a BS cop-out. Further, the shooter market is the hottest genre currently, which means it's immensely popular, but also oversaturated. There have been zero car combat games released in the last year, and I believe for the entire generation. I expected much more than 200k out of Twisted Metal to be honest, as I assumed (probably as did Jaffe) that it would have a sizable built in base and there was zero competition, which appears to have been wrong.

Really, though, my post wasn't about Jaffe's choice of output so much as his lack thereof. His whole vibe in the article was, "Next gen sucks and is going to be too expensive" and that's like citing the cost of a Mercedes and claiming that cars aren't affordable. There were other avenues open to Jaffe, he just chose to ignore them... for whatever reason. No one held a gun toJaffe's head and told him he had to make high end games. There are other developers and publishers who WANT to make Mercedes products, and people like me who want to buy them. There is a market for people who feel as Jaffe does, why should that be the prevailing mindset and occlude those like myself who are fine with the established, accepted model of hardware cycles being around 6 years apart? To stay with the car analogy, remember how about ten years ago, only luxury cars had satellite radio and backup sensors/cameras? You can find that shi* on Toyotas now. Do you know why? Because the technology was introduced, people paid a premium for it, the costs came down, and it became more affordable over time for the mass market. The console market is no different. There are so many idiots stamping their feet and clenching their fists crying over the impending next generation, but they fail to realize that the sooner it gets here, the sooner that hardware will become affordable to them. If this generation had followed the established model, there would be new consoles already on shelves right now, and they'd probably be seeing their first price drop this Christmas. And to developers, the sooner those dev kits get paid and their coders get acclimated to the hardware, the sooner they become comfortable and more proficient with it. The tech business is like a shark... it stops swimming and it dies. It's constantly moving forward. If people like Jaffe bow out, someone else will step in and make the Next Big Thing, I assure you. That's really the crux of my argument: Jaffe is more upset at his creative white out than he is about the mechanism that moves technology forward and has since the industry became an industry and not a hobby.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Shamus, TM isn't a remake, all the content is original (though if you buy it do, it for the fun multiplayer, not the awful campaign).

Also, I've got no problem with developers going the road less travelled in terms of development. Lots of perfectly good shooters are released and lots of them die quiet deaths at retail despite the immense popularity of the genre (nods towards the multiplat Darkness 2, which unlike TM, failed to chart its first month of release) just because people who already have perfectly good shooters see no reason to buy them (due to online play, someone can play the same shooter for months or even years).

Shame-usBlackley

Fair enough on Twisted Metal.

And I don't have a problem with developers forging their own path either. What I take issue with is that is seems like Jaffe is blaming his woes on technology, and that's just a BS cop-out. Further, the shooter market is the hottest genre currently, which means it's immensely popular, but also oversaturated. There have been zero car combat games released in the last year, and I believe for the entire generation. I expected much more than 200k out of Twisted Metal to be honest, as I assumed (probably as did Jaffe) that it would have a sizable built in base and there was zero competition, which appears to have been wrong.

Really, though, my post wasn't about Jaffe's choice of output so much as his lack thereof. His whole vibe in the article was, "Next gen sucks and is going to be too expensive" and that's like citing the cost of a Mercedes and claiming that cars aren't affordable. There were other avenues open to Jaffe, he just chose to ignore them... for whatever reason. No one held a gun toJaffe's head and told him he had to make high end games. There are other developers and publishers who WANT to make Mercedes products, and people like me who want to buy them. There is a market for people who feel as Jaffe does, why should that be the prevailing mindset and occlude those like myself who are fine with the established, accepted model of hardware cycles being around 6 years apart? To stay with the car analogy, remember how about ten years ago, only luxury cars had satellite radio and backup sensors/cameras? You can find that shi* on Toyotas now. Do you know why? Because the technology was introduced, people paid a premium for it, the costs came down, and it became more affordable over time for the mass market. The console market is no different. There are so many idiots stamping their feet and clenching their fists crying over the impending next generation, but they fail to realize that the sooner it gets here, the sooner that hardware will become affordable to them. If this generation had followed the established model, there would be new consoles already on shelves right now, and they'd probably be seeing their first price drop this Christmas. And to developers, the sooner those dev kits get paid and their coders get acclimated to the hardware, the sooner they become comfortable and more proficient with it. The tech business is like a shark... it stops swimming and it dies. It's constantly moving forward. If people like Jaffe bow out, someone else will step in and make the Next Big Thing, I assure you. That's really the crux of my argument: Jaffe is more upset at his creative white out than he is about the mechanism that moves technology forward and has since the industry became an industry and not a hobby.

I agree with the overwhelming majority of what you stated in your first post (and this one), I was (and am)just focusing on the stuff I disagreed with.

I believe you are right that Jaffe was disappointed about the reception to TM but I think 200K is a pretty good first month number. If one makes an online focused game, sales can continue for a long time provided you support the game (which obviously won't be happening with TM). LBP1 also launched in the 200K range, but its sales were in excess of 4.5 million before Sony gave it away after the hack.

Perhaps a better analog is Warhawk, which (as the new TM was originally envisioned) was online only, soldunder100K at launch, but went on to sell several hundred thousand copies. The last number I heard was 700K, but that was years ago and the community was healthy up until Starhawk's beta hit and there are over a million player accounts.

I agree with the overwhelming majority of what you stated in your first post (and this one), I was (and am)just focusing on the stuff I disagreed with.

I believe you are right that Jaffe was disappointed about the reception to TM but I think 200K is a pretty good first month number. If one makes an online focused game, sales can continue for a long time provided you support the game (which obviously won't be happening with TM). LBP1 also launched in the 200K range, but its sales were in excess of 4.5 million before Sony gave it away after the hack.

Perhaps a better analog is Warhawk, which (as the new TM was originally envisioned) was online only, soldunder100K at launch, but went on to sell several hundred thousand copies. The last number I heard was 700K, but that was years ago and the community was healthy up until Starhawk's beta hit and there are over a million player accounts.

CarnageHeart

Yeah, I hope it does well too, if for no other reason that I love the vehicular combat genre and it's almost completely dried up. I liked the commercial Jaffe did for the game as well.

he makes some good points, but if he doesnt like the video game field, well, he is one of the people who made it what it is today. graphics will get better. but when nintendo went that route with the Wii, everyone hated them. Who cares about the tons of great games on Wii. All i care about is how good the same game will look. and with that mentality, we are going to lose all indie games and then the end of creativity.(which has happened with movies, music, tv, why not video games.)da_chub

People's big problem with the Wii springs from its limited line-up and lack of proper online (which is huge this generation) not its power.

The GC was a very powerful system, but it drew pretty much the same core gamers that bought the Wii because it offered the same core franchises (Mario, Zelda and Metroid) and little else.

Good.

I don't even know how to feel about the next generation.

Shameus, next gen games are going to cost more to develop. A lot more. So i kinda see where he's coming from. He doesn't want to make iPhone games like Farmville or Angry Birds. He wants to make hardcore games for the hardcore audience, but even this gen games have become increasinly expensive. With the technology advancing and the graphics becoming more and more complex, he's gonna need more than just 25 people to make the game. And he's gonna need to pay them good money.

Labor doesn't come cheap.

Shameus, next gen games are going to cost more to develop. A lot more. So i kinda see where he's coming from. He doesn't want to make iPhone games like Farmville or Angry Birds. He wants to make hardcore games for the hardcore audience, but even this gen games have become increasinly expensive. With the technology advancing and the graphics becoming more and more complex, he's gonna need more than just 25 people to make the game. And he's gonna need to pay them good money.

Labor doesn't come cheap.

S0lidSnake

I always hear people defend developers (and they probably have little to do with this) and publishers (a lot more to do with this) as being poor little minstrels having to eat bread crumbs and panhandle from a tin cup on street corners, completely ignoring that game prices were raised 20 percent at the start of the generation, but never went back down once developers became more proficient with hardware and start up costs were reconciled. And I'm not even getting into the topic of unlocking on-disc content for same day DLC. I ask this because I honestly don't know: how big was EatSleepPlay relative to the Twisted Metal Black team? Does anyone know?

Every generation has been more expensive to produce games for, yet each generation, I see the cream rise to the top and somehow manage to make money.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

Shameus, next gen games are going to cost more to develop. A lot more. So i kinda see where he's coming from. He doesn't want to make iPhone games like Farmville or Angry Birds. He wants to make hardcore games for the hardcore audience, but even this gen games have become increasinly expensive. With the technology advancing and the graphics becoming more and more complex, he's gonna need more than just 25 people to make the game. And he's gonna need to pay them good money.

Labor doesn't come cheap.

Shame-usBlackley

I always hear people defend developers (and they probably have little to do with this) and publishers (a lot more to do with this) as being poor little minstrels having to eat bread crumbs and panhandle from a tin cup on street corners, completely ignoring that game prices were raised 20 percent at the start of the generation, but never went back down once developers became more proficient with hardware and start up costs were reconciled. And I'm not even getting into the topic of unlocking on-disc content for same day DLC. I ask this because I honestly don't know: how big was EatSleepPlay relative to the Twisted Metal Black team? Does anyone know?

Every generation has been more expensive to produce games for, yet each generation, I see the cream rise to the top and somehow manage to make money.

And that's what Jaffe would have to compete against. He's going to have a tough time getting Sony to pour millions of dollars into another exclusive again.

God of War 3 looked fantastic, but it also had a budget of $44 million. With no online component. Imagine God of War on the PS4. How expensive would that be?

S0lidSnake

Let's do some quick math here.

Last numbers I had LTD on GOW 3 was around 5 million copies.

At JUST the price increase from last gen to this gen, they covered the entire cost of development and still had six million left over. Remember, that's JUST from the $10 price increase, it doesn't include the other $50 each copy of the game brought in... they're making a fuc* ton of money, dude.

Here is my math:

$10 (price increase from last gen to current gen) x 5,000,000 copies = $50 million dollars. Essentially leaving the other $50 on each of the 5 million copies as gravy.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

God of War 3 looked fantastic, but it also had a budget of $44 million. With no online component. Imagine God of War on the PS4. How expensive would that be?

Shame-usBlackley

Let's do some quick math here.

Last numbers I had LTD on GOW 3 was around 5 million copies.

At JUST the price increase from last gen to this gen, they covered the entire cost of development and still had six million left over. Remember, that's JUST from the $10 price increase, it doesn't include the other $50 each copy of the game brought in... they're making a fuc* ton of money, dude.

Here is my math:

$10 (price increase from last gen to current gen) x 5,000,000 copies = $50 million dollars. Essentially leaving the other $50 on each of the 5 million copies as gravy.

YES! SONY is making a s*** ton of money. Sony has been in this business for years. You are confusing David Jaffe with Sony. David Jaffe is an indie dev now. He doesn't work for Sony anymore. For David Jaffe to fund a next gen game by himself is virutally impossible. He cant just start up a 5 man company and start creating a core title. He's gonna need a big team of at least 25 people, 25 extremely talented people to take advantage of next gen tech and he's gonna need to pay them all. This time without his sugar daddy, Sony.

He simply cant afford it. Hell, even a established studio like obsidian couldn't afford it. MS pulled the plug on the next gen exclusive they were funding, and Obsidian had to lay off 30 people the next day. That's more than Jaffe's old team.

I am trying to rationalize David Jaffe's resoning of not wanting to develop on next gen hardware. I couldn't care less about Sony the publisher. Hell, as a first party studio, i think Sony should be taking a loss and funding expensive projects to show off/sell their system. I'm just saying that guys like Jaffe are finding it harder and harder to do smaller games.

YES! SONY is making a s*** ton of money. Sony has been in this business for years. You are confusing David Jaffe with Sony. David Jaffe is an indie dev now. He doesn't work for Sony anymore. For David Jaffe to fund a next gen game by himself is virutally impossible. He cant just start up a 5 man company and start creating a core title. He's gonna need a big team of at least 25 people, 25 extremely talented people to take advantage of next gen tech and he's gonna need to pay them all. This time without his sugar daddy, Sony.

He simply cant afford it. Hell, even a established studio like obsidian couldn't afford it. MS pulled the plug on the next gen exclusive they were funding, and Obsidian had to lay off 30 people the next day. That's more than Jaffe's old team.

I am trying to rationalize David Jaffe's resoning of not wanting to develop on next gen hardware. I couldn't care less about Sony the publisher. Hell, as a first party studio, i think Sony should be taking a loss and funding expensive projects to show off/sell their system. I'm just saying that guys like Jaffe are finding it harder and harder to do smaller games.

S0lidSnake

He is an indie developer by choice. Regardless, the numbers are not as devastating as you might think. If you hire 25 coders at $150k for four years, your hard costs are 15 million. 15 million in a market that has demonstrated the capacity for returning that investment a hundred-fold. Add in Jaffe's resume as the original developer behind God of War, and it shouldn't be too hard to put some investors together. Now, Jaffe could release a title on high-end hardware, or he could make a game on Live Arcade, PSN, or iOS, which he elected not to do. So excuse me if my ass doesn't bleed for the guy when he's bitc*ing about costs now after making a CONSCIOUS decision to limit his market.

What I'm saying is that as an indie developer, Jaffe has a responsibility to stop and do a little math -- see how and where his dollars and cents pan out. If it makes sense on one platform, fine. If it doesn't then he has a responsibility to his team to decide which publishing environment is viable for him (most people do this PRIOR to forming their own studio, I would imagine).

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

YES! SONY is making a s*** ton of money. Sony has been in this business for years. You are confusing David Jaffe with Sony. David Jaffe is an indie dev now. He doesn't work for Sony anymore. For David Jaffe to fund a next gen game by himself is virutally impossible. He cant just start up a 5 man company and start creating a core title. He's gonna need a big team of at least 25 people, 25 extremely talented people to take advantage of next gen tech and he's gonna need to pay them all. This time without his sugar daddy, Sony.

He simply cant afford it. Hell, even a established studio like obsidian couldn't afford it. MS pulled the plug on the next gen exclusive they were funding, and Obsidian had to lay off 30 people the next day. That's more than Jaffe's old team.

I am trying to rationalize David Jaffe's resoning of not wanting to develop on next gen hardware. I couldn't care less about Sony the publisher. Hell, as a first party studio, i think Sony should be taking a loss and funding expensive projects to show off/sell their system. I'm just saying that guys like Jaffe are finding it harder and harder to do smaller games.

Shame-usBlackley

He is an indie developer by choice. Regardless, the numbers are not as devastating as you might think. If you hire 25 coders at $150k for four years, your hard costs are 15 million. 15 million in a market that has demonstrated the capacity for returning that investment a hundred-fold. Add in Jaffe's resume as the original developer behind God of War, and it shouldn't be too hard to put some investors together. Now, Jaffe could release a title on high-end hardware, or he could make a game on Live Arcade, PSN, or iOS, which he elected not to do. So excuse me if my ass doesn't bleed for the guy when he's bitc*ing about costs now after making a CONSCIOUS decision to limit his market.

What I'm saying is that as an indie developer, Jaffe has a responsibility to stop and do a little math -- see how and where his dollars and cents pan out. If it makes sense on one platform, fine. If it doesn't then he has a responsibility to his team to decide which publishing environment is viable for him (most people do this PRIOR to forming their own studio, I would imagine).

Who is gonna loan him $15 million? A bank?

You think he wanted to limit his team to one platform? He had no choice. He needed someone like Sony to fund his game, and Sony only funds exclusives. After this one Sony game, look at what his former studio is doing now... making facebook games. Because they are nice and cheap and dont require $15 million from Sony.

Who is gonna loan him $15 million? A bank?

You think he wanted to limit his team to one platform? He had no choice. He needed someone like Sony to fund his game, and Sony only funds exclusives. After this one Sony game, look at what his former studio is doing now... making facebook games. Because they are nice and cheap and dont require $15 million from Sony.

S0lidSnake

Investors, dude. Look, my little brother put together a hundred grand to make his thesis project to graduate with a film degree. That was a project with no guarantee of return -- just investors willing to back someone who may (or may not) become a successful director one day. With a guy like Jaffe, who has all the aptitude, contacts, and know-how, along with a winning record of game development, investors would be there, TRUST ME.

I call total BS on the single platform line. Many third parties make games on numerous platforms. He didn't HAVE to shop it just to Sony. He could've shopped it to Ubisoft, or Konami (God knows those fuc*ing clowns need a hit), EA, I mean the list goes on and on. That's part of what being an INDEPENDENT developer means.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

Who is gonna loan him $15 million? A bank?Shame-usBlackley

Investors, dude.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

Who is gonna loan him $15 million? A bank?

You think he wanted to limit his team to one platform? He had no choice. He needed someone like Sony to fund his game, and Sony only funds exclusives. After this one Sony game, look at what his former studio is doing now... making facebook games. Because they are nice and cheap and dont require $15 million from Sony.

Shame-usBlackley

Investors, dude. Look, my little brother put together a hundred grand to make his thesis project to graduate with a film degree. That was a project with no guarantee of return -- just investors willing to back someone who may (or may not) become a successful director one day. With a guy like Jaffe, who has all the aptitude, contacts, and know-how, along with a winning record of game development, investors would be there, TRUST ME.

I call total BS on the single platform line. Many third parties make games on numerous platforms. He didn't HAVE to shop it just to Sony. He could've shopped it to Ubisoft, or Konami (God knows those fuc*ing clowns need a hit), EA, I mean the list goes on and on. That's part of what being an INDEPENDENT developer means.

lol. You dont think he knows about 'investors'? You dont think he went to EA and other third parties before deciding to work with Sony? The whole reason he split with Sony was to make his own games, to control his own IP, which he obviously did not end up doing. Why aren't you assuming he has tried all those things already? He's been in the industry for over 20 years. I am sure he knows about investors and third parties.

lol. You dont think he knows about 'investors'? You dont think he went to EA and other third parties before deciding to work with Sony? The whole reason he split with Sony was to make his own games, to control his own IP, which he obviously did not end up doing. Why aren't you assuming he has tried all those things already? He's been in the industry for over 20 years. I am sure he knows about investors and third parties.

S0lidSnake

I don't think that he did. It's just speculation on my part, but I just don't think he did. I don't think that if Jaffe approached other parties in the business that release games across multiple platforms they would've turned him down. So yeah, I believe Jaffe copped himself out basically because he never came up with anything that would've really benefitted from the split with Sony. I mean, at the end of the day, he ended up making a downloadable game and another Sony franchise. That's really what is most interesting about EatSleepPlay... what did Jaffe really gain from it? I mean, going all headless horseman only makes sense if you've got something to sell. If all he had was Calling All Cars and another Twisted Metal floating around in his head, why even split with Sony?

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

Who is gonna loan him $15 million? A bank?

You think he wanted to limit his team to one platform? He had no choice. He needed someone like Sony to fund his game, and Sony only funds exclusives. After this one Sony game, look at what his former studio is doing now... making facebook games. Because they are nice and cheap and dont require $15 million from Sony.

S0lidSnake

Investors, dude. Look, my little brother put together a hundred grand to make his thesis project to graduate with a film degree. That was a project with no guarantee of return -- just investors willing to back someone who may (or may not) become a successful director one day. With a guy like Jaffe, who has all the aptitude, contacts, and know-how, along with a winning record of game development, investors would be there, TRUST ME.

I call total BS on the single platform line. Many third parties make games on numerous platforms. He didn't HAVE to shop it just to Sony. He could've shopped it to Ubisoft, or Konami (God knows those fuc*ing clowns need a hit), EA, I mean the list goes on and on. That's part of what being an INDEPENDENT developer means.

lol. You dont think he knows about 'investors'? You dont think he went to EA and other third parties before deciding to work with Sony? The whole reason he split with Sony was to make his own games, to control his own IP, which he obviously did not end up doing. Why aren't you assuming he has tried all those things already? He's been in the industry for over 20 years. I am sure he knows about investors and third parties.

David Jaffe has always emphasized that his split with Sony and Santa Monica was amicable. However, one of the reasons he split with his team was they didn't share his enthusiasm for the direction he was going in. Jaffe was trying to make a PSP game which would make people cry, most of his teammates were interested in making a kickbutt action games,but they went along with him because he was David Jaffe and they weren't. However, many of those teammates hopped onto Warhawk (a more grounded game which was being made by the same studio) when given the opportunity. David Jaffe realized his project wasn't going anywhere because most of his current team didn't believe in it, and that is why he left. Of course, Jaffe of late has been loudly denouncing games with story...

I've never heard him express an interest in working with another big company, let alone claim that he tried to do so and failed (given his resume, that is extremely unlikely). I have read interviews in which he talked about self-funding games with the other members of the programming team, taking all the risk and either winding up in debt (he joked his kids would have to grow up on ramen) or getting incredibly rich.

Sounds like he wants absolute control over his own destiny (which you don't get when you are asking people for money because they are always going to ask you what you want it for) and wants everyone around him to always agree with whatever direction he wants to go in (even before the breakup he hinted that perhaps no one group of people would always agree with what he wanted to do, which would mean him creating teams on a per project basis).

Even though I like David Jaffe, I can´t help to wonder If he has grown lazy with the years. I some how get his point (that super specs, advanced hardware doesent mean great gameplay), but I mean, come on. We can´t dwelle In the past technology forever, right?

Even though I like David Jaffe, I can´t help to wonder If he has grown lazy with the years. I some how get his point (that super specs, advanced hardware doesent mean great gameplay), but I mean, come on. We can´t dwelle In the past technology forever, right?

V-Act

[QUOTE="V-Act"]

Even though I like David Jaffe, I can´t help to wonder If he has grown lazy with the years. I some how get his point (that super specs, advanced hardware doesent mean great gameplay), but I mean, come on. We can´t dwelle In the past technology forever, right?

DarkCatalyst

Bastion is brilliant, but I don't see how its existence somehow proves that technological improvements could no longer benefit game designers. Every era has boasted some amazing games, but back in their day(s) the existence of say, Phantasy Star, Herzog Zwie, Gunstar Heroes, Gran Turismo, Soul Caliber, X-com, Virtua Fighter 2, Alexay, etc, weren't seen as proof that it was time to stop the tech train.

Also, Jaffe decrying tech and going mobile makes little sense. The tech on mobiles (and PCs) moves forward a couple times every year, whereas consoles stay the same (in terms of processing power) for years. Its worth noting that Apple is claiming the Ipad 3 is more powerful than the PS3 and the X360 (and the resolution is much higher than that of a 1080p tv).

Independent of what you may think of the guy his points are quite valid. Gamers expectations have reached hieghts that are not achievable or blatantly expensive. It seems most of gamers time are spent complaining about trivial stuff that adds no real value to the game like minor graphical glitches, animation, resolution of textures, the lack of online for offline games and the list goes on.

The reality is that there is no need for newer technology at the moment especially in graphics. More time and resources should be spent on more gamecentric features such as AI and gameplay mechanics. But the more stress folks/gamers place on graphics the more cinematic/partially interactive games are going to be made. Its almost as if gamers forgot what gaming is about and that interactivity is priority in this entertainment since it is NOT supposed to be passive. And just in case some did not know fancy graphics and the creation of it is TIME CONSUMING and cost a lot money.

In addition to that consoles have become less and less about games and more about an all in one device. Playing games on the consoles sometimes feel more involved than PC games at times.

[QUOTE="DarkCatalyst"][QUOTE="V-Act"]

Even though I like David Jaffe, I can´t help to wonder If he has grown lazy with the years. I some how get his point (that super specs, advanced hardware doesent mean great gameplay), but I mean, come on. We can´t dwelle In the past technology forever, right?

CarnageHeart

Bastion is brilliant, but I don't see how its existence somehow proves that technological improvements could no longer benefit game designers. Every era has boasted some amazing games, but back in their day(s) the existence of say, Phantasy Star, Herzog Zwie, Gunstar Heroes, Gran Turismo, Soul Caliber, X-com, Virtua Fighter 2, Alexay, etc, weren't seen as proof that it was time to stop the tech train.

Also, Jaffe decrying tech and going mobile makes little sense. The tech on mobiles (and PCs) moves forward a couple times every year, whereas consoles stay the same (in terms of processing power) for years. Its worth noting that Apple is claiming the Ipad 3 is more powerful than the PS3 and the X360 (and the resolution is much higher than that of a 1080p tv).