Batman Arkham City = Overrated

  • 88 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Phantom_Leo
Phantom_Leo

7090

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#51  Edited By Phantom_Leo
Member since 2002 • 7090 Posts

Just gonna put this here:

____________________

dreck

noun

\ˈdrek\

: something that is of very bad quality : trash or rubbish

____________________

Let's use it in a sentence!

"Unoriginal, uninspired, attention-seeking people with no stand out qualities of their own make a lot of list and ' ________________ game is Overrated' topics, filling the forums with dreck."

Very good!

____________________

That was your forum-etiquette / vocabulary lesson for the day!

Avatar image for Black_Knight_00
Black_Knight_00

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#52  Edited By Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts

@Grammaton-Cleric said:

Firstly, you can’t play the game without looking at the screen. Just because some dipshit mashes a few buttons for a video to prove a specious point about modern gaming doesn’t mean the game can be played without actually paying attention and it certainly doesn’t denote the combat as automated or simplistic. (Do we even know what the difficulty setting of the game is in that video?)

Secondly, the inability or unwillingness by some to mine the deeper nuances of something does nothing to negate the fact that the challenge is there for the people who want it. Not only does the difficulty ramp up as you progress but the higher difficulty settings remove the counter prompt entirely so that this game can become something entirely different in the hands of skilled players. You seem to think that the inclusion of a difficulty slide denotes it as shallow and easy but clearly, most titles can be played as such.

For example, I could just as easily play Tekken Tag 2 on the “Very Easy” setting and probably blow through the entirety of the arcade mode blindfolded as a character like Eddy Gordo. By your metric, that would denote the combat as shallow and easy but clearly, that would be an asinine conclusion to reach based on such flimsy evidence.

And that intersects with your question: why somebody would bother to learn the nuances of the combat when they are not required for success?

As a core enthusiast I would think that question beneath you given that we tend to play games for more than the superficial and immediate thrill and rather probe those depths for advanced techniques that test our respective gaming acumen.

You can play AC (and many other games) in such a shallow manner but clearly, that is not how they were intended to be experienced, save for the casual consumer.

It matters little that higher difficulties remove the parry promt, since you don't need to look at the screen in a fight against normal enemies in order to win. The guy who made the video simply taped what I have known for 3 years, since I've played Arkham Asylum. I play on normal and I have noticed this very issue way before seeing this video. The hyperbolic blindfold is also redundant, as the problem is the simplest way to achieve success here is mashing two buttons like mad.

What I denounce is the double standard at work in the gaming community: Assassin's Creed is shat upon as having insultingly easy combat (which is true) but Batman gets a free pass and, in my opinion, that's highly unfair. Just like batman, Assassin's Creed also has multiple weapons and gadgets you can whip out and use to spice up the fight and different types of enemies which require different weapons to kill. That doesn't excuse combat being mostly a two-button job (one-button in AC3) and it doesn't excuse Batman from being often winnable by button mashing.

What would you say to an RPG where you have the option to 1) play a long and well designed questline in order to acquire a powerful magic item, or 2) just buy the item from a store for dirt cheap? I'd say the game wasted its potential on a feature that few people will bother with.

Avatar image for ZZoMBiE13
ZZoMBiE13

22934

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 32

User Lists: 0

#53  Edited By ZZoMBiE13
Member since 2002 • 22934 Posts

If you want to be reductive enough, every game is just button mashing. Every movie is just flickering images on a wall and every book is just ink stains on a page. But a connoisseur knows the difference between Shakespeare and Twilight, between Casablanca and Honey Boo-boo, and between button mashers like old coin-op arcade beat-em-ups and deep mechanics like Arkham Asylum. The fine details are really all that differentiate the dreck from the good stuff, and the good stuff from the great stuff.

Avatar image for Phantom_Leo
Phantom_Leo

7090

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#54 Phantom_Leo
Member since 2002 • 7090 Posts

@ZZoMBiE13 said: The fine details are really all that differentiate the dreck from the good stuff, and the good stuff from the great stuff.

Bonus Points!

Avatar image for ZZoMBiE13
ZZoMBiE13

22934

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 32

User Lists: 0

#55 ZZoMBiE13
Member since 2002 • 22934 Posts

@Phantom_Leo said:

@ZZoMBiE13 said: The fine details are really all that differentiate the dreck from the good stuff, and the good stuff from the great stuff.

Bonus Points!

HA! I didn't even notice your post until coming back in here to see the updated post list. How funny.

Great minds think alike? :)

Avatar image for UpInFlames
UpInFlames

13301

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 41

User Lists: 0

#56  Edited By UpInFlames
Member since 2004 • 13301 Posts

I've been playing Arkham City for about 5 hours now and I'm not digging it as much as Asylum. I'm not sure that the game has gained much with the open city. The level design seems weaker so far and the city is actually kind of lame in comparison to the asylum. Traversing it is a bit of a drag as well. And the CONSTANT chatter is downright annoying. And the pacing definitely took a hit.

Arkham Asylum just felt so fresh and new, this is merely a retread with more stuff thrown in. And sometimes, less really is more. Still, I'm enjoying it.

Avatar image for El_Zo1212o
El_Zo1212o

6057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#57 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

@UpInFlames: Less is more. It's a good phrase more often than not, but here it doesn't apply. From Asylum to City, they dropped one move and gave you 10 others. Each served a purpose based on an enemy type and as far as the city is concerned, as empty and wasted as some of it may have been, it still beat 'zoning' 2 and 3 times every time you needed to get across the map.

Avatar image for ZZoMBiE13
ZZoMBiE13

22934

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 32

User Lists: 0

#58  Edited By ZZoMBiE13
Member since 2002 • 22934 Posts

@UpInFlames said:

Traversing it is a bit of a drag as well.

I'm certainly not going to argue your opinion. That is a fool's errand.

But I would like to ask if you've been awarded the Grapnel Boost upgrade yet?

EDIT: Woohoo! 22,000th post! YEEEEEEEEEEAH!

Avatar image for Lulu_Lulu
Lulu_Lulu

19564

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#59 Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

@ Black_Knight_00

All Right Black Night I have to step in because you are way off base. Truth be told hack n' slash games have the exact same problem, espically Bayonetta (equip Shuraba and you can punch,kick,punch through the entire game,) its pretty fucking simple. However to counter this, they added a scoring mechanism that awards how stylish and creative you were in combat. Batman's only problem is it doesn't evaluate your performance so most people don't have any incentive to use the robust combat system. In a way its like Minecraft, you can't say its average because you lack the imagination to build something I awesome, like a giant jiggling boob. This goes for the stealth aswell, sneaking up behind enemies is pretty easy, and boring, the game is not gona force you to use your other tools, you gotta be a big boy and make the decision lure an enemy to a weak wall and crush him with explosive gell, or disarm with electro magnets.

Avatar image for Lulu_Lulu
Lulu_Lulu

19564

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#60 Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

oh and Assassin's Creed pronlem is not that its easy, theres litteraly nothing to experiment with.

Avatar image for branketra
branketra

51726

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 9

#61 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@UpInFlames said:

Traversing it is a bit of a drag as well. And the CONSTANT chatter is downright annoying.

Get the grapple boost and incapacitate the inmates. You can traverse Arkham City much faster once you learn how to glide and the grapple boost speeds things up as well. Incapacitating inmates will decrease the noise somewhat.

Avatar image for Randolph
Randolph

10542

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#63  Edited By Randolph
Member since 2002 • 10542 Posts

I agree. At first as I booted it up and played it, I was intrigued. Then he donned the batsuit, and to my dismay, the cape and cowl of the suit was purple. I immediately threw up and chunked my Wii U into a creek.

Avatar image for drekula2
drekula2

3349

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#64 drekula2
Member since 2012 • 3349 Posts

Should I make a list thread or an "_____ is overrated" next?

Avatar image for Randolph
Randolph

10542

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#65  Edited By Randolph
Member since 2002 • 10542 Posts

@drekula2 said:

Should I make a list thread or an "_____ is overrated" next?

Your next thread should be "Overrated threads are overrated".

Avatar image for Lulu_Lulu
Lulu_Lulu

19564

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#66 Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

@ drekula2

I want you to take a crack at Portal 2 or Left 4 Dead 2

Avatar image for MirkoS77
MirkoS77

17683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#67  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17683 Posts

@Randolph: Paff Daddy makes his return!

@Lulu: "like a giant jiggling boob"? I have to say each one of your posts are pure gold.

Avatar image for c_rakestraw
c_rakestraw

14627

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 64

User Lists: 0

#68  Edited By c_rakestraw  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 14627 Posts
@MirkoS77 said:

@Randolph: Paff Daddy makes his return!

Randolph was PaffDaddy all along! What a twist!

Avatar image for Black_Knight_00
Black_Knight_00

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#69  Edited By Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@ Black_Knight_00

All Right Black Night I have to step in because you are way off base. Truth be told hack n' slash games have the exact same problem, espically Bayonetta (equip Shuraba and you can punch,kick,punch through the entire game,) its pretty fucking simple. However to counter this, they added a scoring mechanism that awards how stylish and creative you were in combat. Batman's only problem is it doesn't evaluate your performance so most people don't have any incentive to use the robust combat system. In a way its like Minecraft, you can't say its average because you lack the imagination to build something I awesome, like a giant jiggling boob. This goes for the stealth aswell, sneaking up behind enemies is pretty easy, and boring, the game is not gona force you to use your other tools, you gotta be a big boy and make the decision lure an enemy to a weak wall and crush him with explosive gell, or disarm with electro magnets.

That's what I'm saying: you need to make a conscious effort to play the game right ignoring the easy exploit. It's like Splinter Cell Conviction: sure it's easier to just shoot everybody in the face with a shotgun, but it's clearly more rewarding to sneak around. That's a clear design flaw: when a game offers you two courses of action, they should be balanced alternatives, the choice should not be a no brainer, because it raises the question of how many people will bother taking the long and winding road instead of the short and easy one, especially in this age of achievement whoring.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
MirkoS77

17683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#70 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17683 Posts

@c_rakestraw said:
@MirkoS77 said:

@Randolph: Paff Daddy makes his return!

Randolph was PaffDaddy all along! What a twist!

I'm looking forward to Origins as we will inevitably witness the return of the true Randolph..... PaffDaddy!

Avatar image for byshop
Byshop

20504

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#71 Byshop  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 20504 Posts

Yeah, you can button mash your way through the entire game! Well, except for:

Knife thugs
Cattle prod thugs
Venom thugs
The Russian (formerly) conjoined twin body builders
Thugs with guns
Armored thugs
Freeze
Grundy
Penguin
League of Shadows assassins
Ras
etc
etc

I actually -did- button mash my way through Batman AA although I still enjoyed it, but then on a subsequent replay I learned the combo system and found the game to be a lot more fun because now it was about elegantly racking up my combo meter while never being hit and pulling off crazier, more damaging moves.

The op complains that it's a button mash fest -and- that it has unfair difficulty spikes, not realizing that the reason the difficulty spiked for him is because he's trying to button mash instead of learning how to play.

-Byshop

Avatar image for byshop
Byshop

20504

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#72  Edited By Byshop  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 20504 Posts

@BranKetra said:

@UpInFlames said:

Traversing it is a bit of a drag as well. And the CONSTANT chatter is downright annoying.

Get the grapple boost and incapacitate the inmates. You can traverse Arkham City much faster once you learn how to glide and the grapple boost speeds things up as well. Incapacitating inmates will decrease the noise somewhat.

Yeah, flying around the city actually becomes quite fun once you get the grapnel boost. It was one of my favorite parts of the game.

-Byshop

Avatar image for Grammaton-Cleric
Grammaton-Cleric

7515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#73 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

@Black_Knight_00 said:

@Grammaton-Cleric said:

It matters little that higher difficulties remove the parry promt, since you don't need to look at the screen in a fight against normal enemies in order to win. The guy who made the video simply taped what I have known for 3 years, since I've played Arkham Asylum. I play on normal and I have noticed this very issue way before seeing this video. The hyperbolic blindfold is also redundant, as the problem is the simplest way to achieve success here is mashing two buttons like mad.

What I denounce is the double standard at work in the gaming community: Assassin's Creed is shat upon as having insultingly easy combat (which is true) but Batman gets a free pass and, in my opinion, that's highly unfair. Just like batman, Assassin's Creed also has multiple weapons and gadgets you can whip out and use to spice up the fight and different types of enemies which require different weapons to kill. That doesn't excuse combat being mostly a two-button job (one-button in AC3) and it doesn't excuse Batman from being often winnable by button mashing.

What would you say to an RPG where you have the option to 1) play a long and well designed questline in order to acquire a powerful magic item, or 2) just buy the item from a store for dirt cheap? I'd say the game wasted its potential on a feature that few people will bother with.

Many if not most games of this type of contain “normal” enemies who pose little to no threat and the presence of those types alone prove nothing. Given the various enemy types who appear in this game and actually require a more concerted strategy to defeat, the fact that a handful of lower-level goons can be felled using two buttons is meaningless within the larger context of the game and rather demonstrates how selective your criticism actually is.

And my Tekken blindfold analogy is only redundant because it perfectly illustrates the paucity of logic being utilized when deconstructing a game based on sliding difficulty and selective components. The removal of the counter prompt makes a HUGE difference in how the game is played just as playing Tekken on higher difficulties or against other people radically changes the skillset needed to win.

As to Assassin’s Creed, I personally love the series and have always adored the combat so in this particular instance you are preaching to the choir. I can’t be held responsible for other people’s feeble attacks on the combat system which, while a tad easy and not quite as smooth and malleable as the Batman games, is still very good and has kept me engaged with each and every installment.

The only problem with this comparison is that the combat difficulty in the "Assassin" games is not really scalable and implements disparate design conventions and functionality when contrasted with the Arkham series, which emulates old school brawlers while mixing things up considerably with the counter feature and the ability to fuse gadgets into melee attacks.

What you fail to grasp is that the presence of ease manifested in button mashing doesn’t negate depth and it doesn’t matter that many people won’t exploit the deeper nuances of the engine anymore than it matters that most people who buy Tekken (or any other fighter) won’t ever utilize the full breadth of technique available to them. Most games of this nature, including titles like DMC, can be played at easy settings where most of the advanced techniques will be ignored by the casual consumer but that doesn’t mean the depth is not there and that certainly doesn't constitute a design flaw.

Avatar image for darkrayne
Darkrayne

103

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#74 Darkrayne
Member since 2013 • 103 Posts

I just got this cheap on steam. Loved the first.. looking forward to playing it soon.

Avatar image for Godly_Cure
Godly_Cure

4293

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#75 Godly_Cure
Member since 2007 • 4293 Posts

It's got a good score because it's a good game. If you don't like it don't play but that does not mean the game is over rated.

Avatar image for Black_Knight_00
Black_Knight_00

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#76  Edited By Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts

@Grammaton-Cleric said:

Many if not most games of this type of contain “normal” enemies who pose little to no threat and the presence of those types alone prove nothing. Given the various enemy types who appear in this game and actually require a more concerted strategy to defeat, the fact that a handful of lower-level goons can be felled using two buttons is meaningless within the larger context of the game and rather demonstrates how selective your criticism actually is.

And my Tekken blindfold analogy is only redundant because it perfectly illustrates the paucity of logic being utilized when deconstructing a game based on sliding difficulty and selective components. The removal of the counter prompt makes a HUGE difference in how the game is played just as playing Tekken on higher difficulties or against other people radically changes the skillset needed to win.

As to Assassin’s Creed, I personally love the series and have always adored the combat so in this particular instance you are preaching to the choir. I can’t be held responsible for other people’s feeble attacks on the combat system which, while a tad easy and not quite as smooth and malleable as the Batman games, is still very good and has kept me engaged with each and every installment.

The only problem with this comparison is that the combat difficulty in the "Assassin" games is not really scalable and implements disparate design conventions and functionality when contrasted with the Arkham series, which emulates old school brawlers while mixing things up considerably with the counter feature and the ability to fuse gadgets into melee attacks.

What you fail to grasp is that the presence of ease manifested in button mashing doesn’t negate depth and it doesn’t matter that many people won’t exploit the deeper nuances of the engine anymore than it matters that most people who buy Tekken (or any other fighter) won’t ever utilize the full breadth of technique available to them. Most games of this nature, including titles like DMC, can be played at easy settings where most of the advanced techniques will be ignored by the casual consumer but that doesn’t mean the depth is not there and that certainly doesn't constitute a design flaw.

I wasn't referring to your comment when speaking of hyperbole, rather to the guy in the video, who used a blindfold to drive the point home when I think the video speak for itself.

It's been a while since I played Arkham CIty, but I seem to remember normal enemies outnumbering special ones by a very significant margin. That to me translates to the possibility to button mash for most of a fight and simply vary your button presses a little when it's a shockstick guy's turn. I can't speak for hard mode, as I never tried it, but does it make the button mashing not work anymore?

I did get your point, that effort not being required to win doesn't equal lack of complexity but I believe exploits are a sign of poor design. In Zelda 2 you can defeat the final boss by crouching at the edge of the screen and mashing the sword button, in Splinter Cell Conviction you can shoot your way through the game, in SSFIV you can beat the game on ultra hard with all perfects just by spamming Zangief's one-button spinning lariat move. and in Batman you can "YXYX" you way through most of the enemies.

Is it playing the game wrong? Sure it is. Does it detract from the experience? Sure it does. Still, the flaw is there.

Avatar image for byshop
Byshop

20504

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#77 Byshop  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 20504 Posts

@Black_Knight_00 said:

I wasn't referring to your comment when speaking of hyperbole, rather to the guy in the video, who used a blindfold to drive the point home when I think the video speak for itself.

It's been a while since I played Arkham CIty, but I seem to remember normal enemies outnumbering special ones by a very significant margin. That to me translates to the possibility to button mash for most of a fight and simply vary your button presses a little when it's a shockstick guy's turn. I can't speak for hard mode, as I never tried it, but does it make the button mashing not work anymore?

I did get your point, that effort not being required to win doesn't equal lack of complexity but I believe exploits are a sign of poor design. In Zelda 2 you can defeat the final boss by crouching at the edge of the screen and mashing the sword button, in Splinter Cell Conviction you can shoot your way through the game, in SSFIV you can beat the game on ultra hard with all perfects just by spamming Zangief's one-button spinning lariat move. and in Batman you can "YXYX" you way through most of the enemies.

Is it playing the game wrong? Sure it is. Does it detract from the experience? Sure it does. Still, the flaw is there.

I don't agree with Black_Night necessarily, and even on Normal there were some truly tough and epic battles that you had to get through in order to beat the game. If I were to have one complaint, I would have preferred to see Hard mode available on the first playthrough (or at least a version of it, since it introduces many enemy types early).

Yes, normal enemy types are relatively easy to beat. But do you know why...?

BECAUSE HE'S BATMAN!!! ;)

-Byshop

Avatar image for Randolph
Randolph

10542

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#78  Edited By Randolph
Member since 2002 • 10542 Posts

Yeah, if Batman struggled with run of the mill thugs, he wouldn't really be much of a "the goddamn batman" now, would he? He outclasses ordinary muscleheads by leaps and bounds.

Avatar image for Grammaton-Cleric
Grammaton-Cleric

7515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#79 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts
@Black_Knight_00 said:

I wasn't referring to your comment when speaking of hyperbole, rather to the guy in the video, who used a blindfold to drive the point home when I think the video speak for itself.

It's been a while since I played Arkham CIty, but I seem to remember normal enemies outnumbering special ones by a very significant margin. That to me translates to the possibility to button mash for most of a fight and simply vary your button presses a little when it's a shockstick guy's turn. I can't speak for hard mode, as I never tried it, but does it make the button mashing not work anymore?

I did get your point, that effort not being required to win doesn't equal lack of complexity but I believe exploits are a sign of poor design. In Zelda 2 you can defeat the final boss by crouching at the edge of the screen and mashing the sword button, in Splinter Cell Conviction you can shoot your way through the game, in SSFIV you can beat the game on ultra hard with all perfects just by spamming Zangief's one-button spinning lariat move. and in Batman you can "YXYX" you way through most of the enemies.

Is it playing the game wrong? Sure it is. Does it detract from the experience? Sure it does. Still, the flaw is there.

I appreciate the clarification about the hyperbole but remember, whether we agree or not, I respect you so always assume my tone is part of the rhetoric and don’t ever think I am actually pissed at you.

That said, where you and I diverge is, as per usual, in regards to a finer point of classification. Personally, I don’t consider the ability to mash your way to success to be a flaw so much as a design choice that ensures everyone can enjoy the game on some level. Without this option many people simply would end up getting obliterated and cease playing so I appreciate that the game allows the casual to have some fun while rewarding players like us with something more profound and nuanced.

As to the higher difficulty, it does make mashing more difficult but also there are characters other than stun-baton enemies who make thrumming the buttons a less-than-viable option, such as the thugs carrying riot shields, those padded fellows, or anyone wielding a knife or a sword. To be fair the combat in the game truly shines in the challenge modes, where you are given increasingly difficult waves of enemies and where mashing will actually get you killed very rapidly, but that is technically an ancillary feature so perhaps the combat, as it appears in the campaign, would seem to be a bit easier when using exploits.

Regardless, I still consider the combat brilliant but then again, I’ve never been one to espouse an ideology that difficulty is crucial to this medium. (Though I fully empathize with those who do)

Avatar image for Black_Knight_00
Black_Knight_00

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#80 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts
@Grammaton-Cleric said:

I appreciate the clarification about the hyperbole but remember, whether we agree or not, I respect you so always assume my tone is part of the rhetoric and don’t ever think I am actually pissed at you.

That said, where you and I diverge is, as per usual, in regards to a finer point of classification. Personally, I don’t consider the ability to mash your way to success to be a flaw so much as a design choice that ensures everyone can enjoy the game on some level. Without this option many people simply would end up getting obliterated and cease playing so I appreciate that the game allows the casual to have some fun while rewarding players like us with something more profound and nuanced.

As to the higher difficulty, it does make mashing more difficult but also there are characters other than stun-baton enemies who make thrumming the buttons a less-than-viable option, such as the thugs carrying riot shields, those padded fellows, or anyone wielding a knife or a sword. To be fair the combat in the game truly shines in the challenge modes, where you are given increasingly difficult waves of enemies and where mashing will actually get you killed very rapidly, but that is technically an ancillary feature so perhaps the combat, as it appears in the campaign, would seem to be a bit easier when using exploits.

Regardless, I still consider the combat brilliant but then again, I’ve never been one to espouse an ideology that difficulty is crucial to this medium. (Though I fully empathize with those who do)

Don't worry, I always assume your responses are friendly, I was simply expressing myself better.

Back to Batman, as you said, I guess we perceive the matter differently: what I see as a design flaw you see as an accessibility feature. Fair enough, though I remain firm in my conviction that a game designer should make sure a feature of the game (in this case the depth of the combat system) is made the most of and is not hidden behind a wall of simplicity that only the most dedicated players will peek behind.

That's just me though.

Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#81  Edited By Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

@Randolph said:

Yeah, if Batman struggled with run of the mill thugs, he wouldn't really be much of a "the goddamn batman" now, would he? He outclasses ordinary muscleheads by leaps and bounds.

And then comes along villains like Bane that can pick up Batman and break his back. :P

Avatar image for ZZoMBiE13
ZZoMBiE13

22934

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 32

User Lists: 0

#82 ZZoMBiE13
Member since 2002 • 22934 Posts

@Metamania said:

@Randolph said:

Yeah, if Batman struggled with run of the mill thugs, he wouldn't really be much of a "the goddamn batman" now, would he? He outclasses ordinary muscleheads by leaps and bounds.

And then comes along villains like Bane that can pick up Batman and break his back. :P

Thankfully medicine men in most prisons have learned that the cure for a broken back is a simple length of rope.

Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#83 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

@ZZoMBiE13 said:

@Metamania said:

@Randolph said:

Yeah, if Batman struggled with run of the mill thugs, he wouldn't really be much of a "the goddamn batman" now, would he? He outclasses ordinary muscleheads by leaps and bounds.

And then comes along villains like Bane that can pick up Batman and break his back. :P

Thankfully medicine men in most prisons have learned that the cure for a broken back is a simple length of rope.

Not sure where that's coming from, your analogy or opinion or wherever...from the movie, I'm guessing?

Avatar image for El_Zo1212o
El_Zo1212o

6057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#84 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

I have to say I really have trouble buying this whole debate. But then, I never played the Arkham games for the story or the atmosphere. I figured I couldn't possibly be the only dude who ever played them solely for the combat.

Oh, and there is certainly a wealth of thugs, but unlike Arkham Asylum, The base thug has the ability to 'become' any kind of specialty thug when they pick up the right weapon- except an armored thug, of course.

Avatar image for stev69
stev69

161

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 28

User Lists: 0

#85 stev69
Member since 2006 • 161 Posts

Why does the core gameplay need to evolve? When you get something right and do it well then to be fair its only a fool changes a winning formula for no reason.

Avatar image for ZZoMBiE13
ZZoMBiE13

22934

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 32

User Lists: 0

#86  Edited By ZZoMBiE13
Member since 2002 • 22934 Posts

@Metamania said:

@ZZoMBiE13 said:

@Metamania said:

@Randolph said:

Yeah, if Batman struggled with run of the mill thugs, he wouldn't really be much of a "the goddamn batman" now, would he? He outclasses ordinary muscleheads by leaps and bounds.

And then comes along villains like Bane that can pick up Batman and break his back. :P

Thankfully medicine men in most prisons have learned that the cure for a broken back is a simple length of rope.

Not sure where that's coming from, your analogy or opinion or wherever...from the movie, I'm guessing?

Yes. From DK Rises. Love the movie or hate it, there were some preposterous scenarios playing out in that film.

Not the least of which, was a man in a dirty prison who can heal Bruce's broken back by hanging him from the ceiling (using the rope) and punching him in the spine.

I mean I know the movie can't follow the comic verbatim. But still.

Avatar image for Planeforger
Planeforger

19592

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#87 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 19592 Posts

I do think the game was a little overrated, but it was still a fine game.

I don't think this one was better than Arkham Asylum. Something was lost in the transition from Metroidvania to open world game design - the pacing was off, the movement upgrades and interconnected level design took a huge hit, and encountering a different supervillain's plot on every second street corner felt...muddied/cluttered/unfocused.

Sure, the ability to fly around part of Gotham was fun, but I do think the game would have been much better of they had featured less of the city and bigger, more complex, and more focused buildings (and if they had spent more time developing each villain).

Avatar image for glimpus
glimpus

2306

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 17

User Lists: 0

#88  Edited By glimpus
Member since 2004 • 2306 Posts

nope.

Avatar image for Grammaton-Cleric
Grammaton-Cleric

7515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#89 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

@ZZoMBiE13 said:

@Metamania said:

@ZZoMBiE13 said:

@Metamania said:

@Randolph said:

Yeah, if Batman struggled with run of the mill thugs, he wouldn't really be much of a "the goddamn batman" now, would he? He outclasses ordinary muscleheads by leaps and bounds.

And then comes along villains like Bane that can pick up Batman and break his back. :P

Thankfully medicine men in most prisons have learned that the cure for a broken back is a simple length of rope.

Not sure where that's coming from, your analogy or opinion or wherever...from the movie, I'm guessing?

Yes. From DK Rises. Love the movie or hate it, there were some preposterous scenarios playing out in that film.

Not the least of which, was a man in a dirty prison who can heal Bruce's broken back by hanging him from the ceiling (using the rope) and punching him in the spine.

I mean I know the movie can't follow the comic verbatim. But still.

While I still doubt the medical veracity and viability of the cure, I do think the notion was that Bruce’s back in the film wasn’t broken so much as a vertebrae was dislocated.

Then again, his recovery in the comics isn’t particularly realistic either.

Avatar image for ZZoMBiE13
ZZoMBiE13

22934

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 32

User Lists: 0

#90 ZZoMBiE13
Member since 2002 • 22934 Posts

@Grammaton-Cleric said:

@ZZoMBiE13 said:

@Metamania said:

@ZZoMBiE13 said:

@Metamania said:

@Randolph said:

Yeah, if Batman struggled with run of the mill thugs, he wouldn't really be much of a "the goddamn batman" now, would he? He outclasses ordinary muscleheads by leaps and bounds.

And then comes along villains like Bane that can pick up Batman and break his back. :P

Thankfully medicine men in most prisons have learned that the cure for a broken back is a simple length of rope.

Not sure where that's coming from, your analogy or opinion or wherever...from the movie, I'm guessing?

Yes. From DK Rises. Love the movie or hate it, there were some preposterous scenarios playing out in that film.

Not the least of which, was a man in a dirty prison who can heal Bruce's broken back by hanging him from the ceiling (using the rope) and punching him in the spine.

I mean I know the movie can't follow the comic verbatim. But still.

While I still doubt the medical veracity and viability of the cure, I do think the notion was that Bruce’s back in the film wasn’t broken so much as a vertebrae was dislocated.

Then again, his recovery in the comics isn’t particularly realistic either.

Fair point.

But as someone who's lived with chronic back pain for over 10 years, I can tell you it's all a load of horse droppings. Both versions. I know film has to condense the idea for the medium it's using and the pacing should be most important. But at least the comics had Bruce out of commision for a long while. Intending on retiring and leaving Azreal as the functional Batman.

Avatar image for TheOSGVault
TheOSGVault

26

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#91 TheOSGVault
Member since 2013 • 26 Posts

As much as I enjoyed Asylum, City was just as good. I liked the added open world environment the game had flying everywhere. Looking forward to grabbing origins!