Miyamoto: 'I'm Creatively Satisfied'

Mario, Zelda creator Shigeru Miyamoto discusses how he stays creatively inspired when making sequels, Wii U struggles, and eventual retirement.

Shigeru Miyamoto, the 60-year-old developer behind iconic franchises like Mario, Zelda, and Donkey Kong is “definitely creatively satisfied.” Though some of his time is now spent working on new entries to existing franchises, namely Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon and Pikmin 3, the developer told GameSpot today that he’s content with his work. Gamers shouldn’t shrug off sequels over thoughts that they lack innovation, because this is not the case, he argued.

GameSpot sat down with Miyamoto today, speaking with the longtime industry veteran on a range of topics. In addition to stating his creative satisfaction, Miyamoto opened up on his eventual retirement, the struggles of communicating the Wii U’s message, Pikmin 3’s recent multi-month delay, and why Luigi is akin to a salad entrée by contemporary convention.

Given that many of the games you’re working on now are new entries in existing series, do you feel creatively satisfied?

I think from the outside, if you look at it, it certainly appears that all we're doing is making sequels to the main franchises. But in recent years, I've worked on projects like Wii Fit, and other smaller projects like the Louvre museum guide that we did for Nintendo 3DS. And so, amongst all of the sequels that we do, certainly I have other projects that I'm working on that I'm having a lot of fun with. So I'm definitely creatively satisfied, but even when it comes to how we approach creating sequels for our mainline franchises, there's a great deal of research and development that goes into that and we've got a team that’s focused on how we can continue to evolve those franchises.

Do you think Nintendo is putting its best foot forward, creatively, with Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon and Pikmin 3? What aspects of those games can you point to and call "uniquely Nintendo."

Well, of course, when it comes to what Nintendo does, we create both hardware and software and so the software uniqueness in particular tends to rely on the uniqueness of the hardware. So with Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, one thing that's particularly unique about that game is the way that it relies on the bottom screen--the touchscreen--for the map. And the ability to play with that map and how you use it to explore the mansion adds a lot to the uniqueness to the game, compared to the previous version. In the case of Pikmin 3, we've taken an approach with that game where we really want to take what made the original Pikmin game unique and really simply go deeper with that experience.

"And so, amongst all of the sequels that we do, certainly I have other projects that I’m working on that I’m having a lot of fun with. So I’m definitely creatively satisfied."

And so what we've done is by taking advantage of the GamePad--the second screen there--and the HD graphics that are capable with Wii U and the higher processor--we've really been able to take that original Pikmin experience and do something that is much deeper and more fleshed out this time around. I think the other advantage that we have is the attention that we pay to interface. For example, Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, that's a game that uses really almost all of the buttons on the 3DS.

But the way that we introduce that to people; you start off with just a couple of actions and gradually you learn the different actions of the game over the course of the game. By the end of the game, you feel like you've gotten very good and you're then using all these different actions to battle the ghosts and solve the puzzles. And so it adds a great deal of depth and growth for the player through that experience. Similarly, with Pikmin 3, really where we've put the energy is on improving that interface for the player. By taking advantage of the gyro functionality, we feel that we've managed to give the player a much easier route to achieving the things they want to achieve in the game through that control interface;gs and so what that does is it really lets them get in a take advantage of the strategic elements of that game.

With regards to Pikmin 3, what's one point of gameplay you can point to and say "that's only possible because of what the Wii U can do?"

When I create a game, I don't necessarily always try to approach it from the idea of leveraging every feature or every ability of that new piece of hardware. In the case of Pikmin in particular, the approach that we took was really less of an approach of how can we […] take advantage of what the Wii U is doing, per se, and instead how can we take what was that Pikmin experience and really make it a deeper experience for players.

So of course we're taking advantage of the graphics and improving the play control and whatnot and I guess if you were to look at it more broadly, you might not necessarily say that it would be impossible to do it on another system. But I guess speaking plainly, the idea is really that Wii U is the best system to be able to achieve all of the different things that we're trying to do with this new Pikmin game. One of the biggest features of Pikmin 3 is the fact that you have the map on the GamePad at all times and because Pikmin is a strategy game, it's the type of game that you might play the same levels over and over again. Having that map--and the fact that you have the three different leaders that you switch between to command your Pikmin--and having the touchscreen on the map will allow you to change perspective or jump to a specific leader and quickly give orders.It makes it much more efficient for you to achieve the goals that you have strategically within the game.

Pikmin 3 was recently delayed a couple of months. Can you talk about the reason for that delay and what's happened in the time since?

"And in my mind, there's really two kinds of games: games that get delayed and then there’s games that sort of shift [laughs]."

I don't know how far I should go in explaining this, but at Nintendo, there is often sort of a notion that the games I'm working on always get delayed. And in my mind, there's really two kinds of games: games that get delayed and then there's games that sort of shift [laughs]. And in the case of Pikmin, we were working on Pikmin in advance of [the Wii U launch] and I was spending a lot of time focusing on placement of items and enemies and things like that and levels. And so from my perspective, Pikmin gradually just became one of those games that sort of shifted [laughs]. I'm sorry. I know everybody is waiting for it.

On top of Luigi's Mansion and Pkimin 3, Wind Waker for the Wii U is supplementing that lineup. Is Nintendo considering giving Wii U treatment to any other games, potentially older games like Metroid Prime?

Of course I can only talk about the titles we've announced publicly. We are thinking about the possibilities around that, but there's nothing I can share today. I guess I can say from my perspective, I’m more interested in creating new titles.

Going back to Luigi's Mansion, the franchise is one that has seen a dedicated following throughout the years. Why do you think that is?

The first thing I want to say is I'm very grateful to everybody who feels that way. There are actually quite a number of Luigi supporters internally, as well. And in fact the reason that we were able to do the Year of Luigi this year is because there were so many people who wanted to work on Luigi titles and it just, by coincidence turned out all of the projects they were working on ended up releasing this year.

When you have a meal in front of you, and you have people who eat meat or you have people who eat vegetables, there's sort of the main dish and then you might have a dessert or a salad. Luigi is green, so maybe he's kind of like a salad and right now it seems like people tend to like lighter fare. [Luigi] is a little weaker and timid and maybe people like timid things these days. I guess Link's green, too [laughs].

On the other hand, I do think that the world of Luigi's Mansion and sort of the kind of "scary feel" to the mansions and whatnot is something that has a big contrast to the Mario games, which obviously are very bright and more action-focused. So having that nice story that wraps around the Luigi games is something that perhaps lingers with people a little bit longer and when they think back and remember it, they think 'Oh, I want to experience that again.'

Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon was a co-development between Next Level Games here in the West and Nintendo’s studios in Japan. Can you talk about what that relationship was like, working across the world?

The background for that is we've worked with Next Level Games for a number of years now and there's another producer internally at Nintendo who I've also worked with for a long time: Kensuke Tanabe. And he's been working with Next Level Games and has also worked on the Donkey Kong series. He was able to find Next Level Games and start working with them originally and help build that relationship that allowed us to work with them all these years.

Were there any challenges in the fact that you're working all the way across the world; logistically, things like that?

We actually have a lot of experience working with overseas developers. We work with [Nintendo Software Technology] over in the Seattle area, we work with of course Retro Studios in Texas. And back when we worked with Rare, they were of course in the United Kingdom. And so what we've found now, particularly with the enhancements like video conferencing and just with the ability to instantly send versions of games back and forth across great distances; we're used to working in great distances and it's not very different from how we operate in terms of working with our Tokyo studios. Where we tend to have bigger challenges is just ensuring that the development team has a clear understanding of Nintendo philosophy and how we do things. But because we've worked with Next Level Games for so long, we don't have any issues there.

Two major absences so far for the Wii U have been dual GamePad support and support for NFC technology. Can you give an update regarding the status of both these?

With regard to NFC, I think we'll be able to share some products this year, but I have to ask you to wait until we formally announce them. But the technology itself has been finalized, and the development libraries have been shared with development teams, so you can look forward to seeing something with NFC soon. With that, we can do things that use figures or with chips in cards. We can do either of those.

"I think Wii U certainly has a little bit more of a challenge [than the Wii] because it doesn’t have that ‘looking-fun' element to it. "

Perhaps a Pokemon game?

[laughs] We'll leave that up to your imagination.

With regards to the Wii U, conveying the message of the Wii U seems a bit more difficult than the original Wii. With the original Wii you could pick up a Wii Remote and play tennis and you would instantly get it. Do you think this has potentially impacted sales?

I think it's very common for Nintendo products to be the type of thing that until you play it, you don't really understand how fun it is. Wii had an advantage, because watching people play it looked interesting. When you saw other people playing a game that looked interesting. But even then, it was still the type of thing that you had to play it for yourself to confirm. And once you played Wii, people had instantly a lot of fun. And what that did was reinforce for them that what they had seen was in fact true. Certainly, I think that helped Wii.

From that perspective, I think Wii U certainly has a little bit more of a challenge because it doesn't have that 'looking-fun' element to it. But I think that as people bring it into the living room and begin to play it, particularly when you experience with five people, you really do get a sense for how fun Wii U is. And I think that's the key; to try to get as many people to try it out as possible. Even with Wii, if people played a game, but it wasn't fun, it would't have had the result that it did. So I think the key for us is continuing to focus on the fun of our products.

Can you talk specifically about how you’re going to go about do that? How you’re going to go about conveying that message more clearly to consumers.

[laughs]. Ask these guys [points to public relations and marketing executives sitting in the room].

I think the key thing is to give more people more opportunity to come in contact with the system and play it. One of the things in Japan that we had been doing, is we had been careful because we wanted to make sure people understood it properly. We had been giving as many opportunities for people to try it out at demo units, at retail, or ensuring that there was somebody there to demonstrate and make sure that they were getting a proper understanding. But I think what we're finding now is we really just need to get as many people as possible to get their hands on the system so that they can see how fun it is.

Last year you said it was too soon to retire, but that preparations were underway for your eventual retirement. Given how many projects you're working on now, is your retirement on your mind now, or not at all, given how many things you're currently juggling?

This year I'm past 60; I’m going to be turning 61 this year. So for me to not be thinking about retirement would be strange. But in fact, the number of projects I’m involved in--and the volume of my work--hasn't changed at all.

"This year I'm past 60; I'm going to be turning 61 this year. So for me to not be thinking about retirement would be strange. "

Instead, what we're doing internally is, on the assumption that there may someday be a time when I'm no longer there, and in order for the company to prepare for that, what I'm doing is pretending like I’m not working on half the projects that I would normally be working on to try to get the younger staff to be more involved.

And this actually has nothing to do with any kind of retirement planning or anything of that sort, it's really more of simply the fact that people have a tendency, certainly when you're in an organizational structure, they have a tendency to always look to the person that gives them direction. And really, for a long time I've been thinking that we need to try to break that structure down so that the individual producers that I'm working with are really taking responsibility for the projects that they’re working on. I think that they are gradually beginning to understand and certainly they’re taking on more of a kind of leadership role or responsibility with their projects.

And as I like to say, I try to duck out of the way, so that instead of them looking at me, they're looking at the consumer and trying to develop their games with the consumer in mind rather than me in mind. So it's really more of looking at this as sort of an opportunity to really try to help develop them and bring them up.

Discussion

342 comments
DirtyAl
DirtyAl

I purchased this system with the thought that Nintendo was going to aim at a more hardcore type of gamer. The launch titles showed this promise although they completely dropped the ball with NBA 2K13 and Madden 13 being horiffic ports. I feel like I wasted my money with this purchase. I am being patient as I await new releases but the thought of playing a GTA style game as a lego is simply not moving me the way I would like it to. I have a 3 year old daughter who I am introducing to video games but I refuse to let her touch a the game remote due to its size in touchscreen. This system has very little identity and I hope that the next 6 months gives me some surprises. The roster list that I read at my nearest gamestop store worries me.

vivelesjeux
vivelesjeux

Even though Nintendo has got tons of cash in the Bank, once Miyamoto is gone, Nintendo as we know it will be gone with him. This is why Nintendo is struggling big time to come up with something that appeal and keeps using the Same old franchise over and over again. they just do not have any ideas beyond what Myamoto comes up with. I mean, which other  guy at Nintendo has even a quarter of Myamoto's vision? no one. Myamoto is Nintendo thats about it. The day the Guy's gone Nintendo will just be some company having enough cash to come up with gimmicky consoles with the eventual strike of luck like the Wii where they will be able to make some more money nothing more... unless another young genius of a creator comes along. What about Myamo's Kids?? :o)

Luizao2779
Luizao2779

@CHROMEFLAMIN They were indeed, but I'm not sure if you remember but there was a severe crisis on the 80's that almost brought the industry down, Nintendo helped the industry survive and get to what it is today. Hence my previous comment

titus30075
titus30075

The irony is, Nintendo has become Sega. Once PS4 and the new Xbox is released, most people are going to be shoving the Wii U aside just like the Sega Dreamcast. 

Kyanzaki
Kyanzaki

Yeah Mr. Miyamoto, after you finish these new IP, time to retire, although it's been a great 35+year (Trivia:  Miyamoto started at Nintendo in 1977 for Yamamuchi's new VG experiment with late game designer, Gunpei Yokoi...but it is time to go and retire gracefully!!

racerxgundam
racerxgundam

This interview was pure fluff...i give G and eddie a pass here because videogame interviews anywhere are usually garbage as is, so i won't call them tools per se, but they definitely brought out the knee pads. Its amazing how sensitive and protective this industry is, and no one has that mentality more ingrained as Nintendo. the first question that should have been asked is "what makes you think anyone gives a rat's ass about luigi's mansion or yet another pikmin in this day and age?" but integrity here is about as common as unicorns. Although the two that signed off on this will prolly never admit it, this prolly had to be proofread and ok-ed by NOA pr's department before it comes to our consumption. 

Its hard, real hard actually to sorta judge Miyamoto. On the one hand you have the man that pretty much BIRTHED console gaming as we know it by HIMSELF, no one before and no one after him has climbed the mountain like he has. He is the REASON why we have the hobby that we have. 

And yet...he seems so lost. So out of it. He may be "creatively" satisfied but he is also pathologically delusional. Forget the loss of sense he has on the american/european gaming market...which he lost some time ago..he seems to be like losing touch on the Asian/Japanese market, a market that pretty much venerates him as a God. The first half of his career was unparalleled brilliance, and now.......i hate to even say this but now he is mediocre at best, bad at worst, and in reality meaningless in the landscape of game design other than being the "face" of nintendo. 

Its really sad in a way. Kinda like watching a great pitcher lose his fastball. I will always be thankful to this dude, he has given me my favorite hobby;  so as his pitches fail to even reach the box and the manager comes to take the ball out of his hand..i will be there cheering my heart out giving the dude a standing ovation even though i know he throws like a girl now.


firstclassgamer
firstclassgamer

His retirement means the rise of "shooters" and "beat'em ups" and a few games that stray from the pack and are called unique inthe end "the day gaming died"

jose2390
jose2390

I will go so far as to say....Without Mr. Miyamoto, there wouldn't be no games. 

Wild_Card
Wild_Card

he def has done some great things for gameing, but i have to say IMO i think maybe he has been slipping the last 5 or more years. iv not played any thing from him or nintendo  that has wowed me like SM64,oot,ww in a long ime. gallaxy was really ood but it lacked that WOW lv of greatness and freshness that 64 had same with the past zelda games ect. of course he set the bar very high with said games but for thne most part, with a few exceptions its almost like he or at least nintendo as a whole has gotten a bit lazy. and i do not mean that in some trollish way. just how i se it.

Joedgabe
Joedgabe

60.. he looks younger than me and people think i'm still in hs... 

Takeno456
Takeno456

I have the highest respect for Miyamoto. I am not looking forward to the day that Legendary man retires.

Tyaj
Tyaj

Just think about it, this man created some of the greatest, most well known game characters of all time. That's just not something you do everyday.

mariokart64fan
mariokart64fan

badwedgie wrong ,snes sold on super mario world fzero pilotwings top gear final fantasy and super mario rpg along side donkey kong country kirby super mariokart ,  top gear 3000 the lion king doom mortal kombat 3 etc and dont forget rock n roll racing and zombies ate my neighbors and super castle vania iv , earthbound etc 

Getbacktogaming
Getbacktogaming

"Gamers shouldn’t shrug off sequels over thoughts that they lack innovation, because this is not the case" I have tremendous respect for the man but seriously... I doubt most studios (perhaps with a few rare exceptions) are making sequels because they seem more opportunities for innovation... but rather because they know those tend to sell better (they have to earn a living too)!!! If only they could do their marketing properly and inform people not about the existence of a sequel but rather the creation of an entirely new masterpiece from the makers of a great and nostalgic IP! Hopefully The Last of Us proves my point later this year = D!

badwedgie00
badwedgie00

Back in 1992, the system seller that made Nintendo triumph over the Genesis was not one of their first-party titles, it was Street Fighter 2!  This highly-anticipated game complemented the SNES's six-button controller scheme. SNES systems flew off the shelves so people wouldn't have to plunk any more quarters down, and instead play SF2 in the comforts of their own home. Now in 2013, with DWINDLING third-party support, it will need several, EXCLUSIVE blockbusters in order to move systems off the shelves.

SavoyPrime
SavoyPrime

I wonder if Miyamoto will really be able to retire. He seems like the kind of guy that would want to be attached to gaming in some form as long as he lives. A consultant role or something similar perhaps.

SloganYams
SloganYams

Really people's complaints on Wii U are unjustified. It does need better marketing, that's for sure. But it had a good launch and with all the game's Nintendo has announced these past couple of months, it looks to have a great future.

chun-IDGAF-li
chun-IDGAF-li

the video game god just became and old geezer.

Hells_rebelion
Hells_rebelion

Wii U and nintendo in general needs more 3rd party  support.  Plain and simple.

abHS4L88
abHS4L88

@DirtyAl

Get a screen protector for your Wii U GamePad if you haven't :D anyways, here's a list of confirmed (and some rumored) games for the Wii U to look forward to this year and next: http://nintendoenthusiast.com/12568/upcoming-wii-u-games/

As for the ports, that's actually not Nintendo's fault so much as is the developer's considering that there are a handful of successful ports on the system, there's no reason why the rest couldn't pull it off, even if they had to delay the game a bit. Like all new systems, the Wii U is simply suffering from a slow first year and I do believe Nintendo's gearing up to make the Wii U huge during/after summer (since the summer update is supposed to optimize the system and hopefully include some more features like the DVR function). 

levigutt
levigutt

@titus30075 Why would people do that? They didn't do that with the Wii, even thouogh it had inferior graphics and odd controls. This time we have great graphics (it runs all next-gen engines), not AS good as PS4 and neXtbox will have, but I don't think we will really notice. AND the controls are more traditional again. 

The Wii U will definetly be an even bigger success than the Wii, which beat PS3 and Xbox360 bigtime. More consoles sold, more games made, more exclusives made, better games, more gams sold and more satisfied gamers. The Wii U will follow this tradition of Nintendo - and they will actually make money, unlike Sony and Microsoft. 

The company that's actually making money could never turn third-party!

abHS4L88
abHS4L88

@titus30075 

Very true, which is why many of the best selling exclusives are from Nintendo, because once people see "pretty graphics" they push aside everything else. What about the PS4 and next XBox makes you think these systems will launch at a reasonable price along with a slew of amazing games? In fact, what about gaming history makes you think this is going to happen? SEGA doomed themselves and the Dreamcast could've easily held its own had SEGA not tarnished their reputation leading up to the Dreamcast's launch, which is one of the few consoles to be released with a killer line up of games. 

abHS4L88
abHS4L88

@racerxgundam 

Who gives a rat's ass about Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin in this day and age? People who like gaming for different experiences rather than the bloody violent "mature" clusterfuck of games that flooded the market this generation. Loss of what sense? What brainless people want? Sure his games aren't as widely popular as they used to be but they still VERY much have a solid place in the gaming industry around the world and just because he's one of only people doing what he's doing, all the more power to him.

I think it's flat out stupid when people say "Oh they're out of touch" because they're not doing what everyone else is doing, no how about "They're being themselves rather than mindless drones who only follow trends." There's a reason why Nintendo has set so many trends, because they create them, not follow them. Not saying everything they do is amazing or perfect, but of all the videogame companies, Nintendo has undoubtedly set more standards and created more trends than any other company, primarily due to their philosophy of always trying to find new ways to interact and use technology instead of relying on it. 

I do appreciate that you still respect Miyamoto but I do not agree with most of what you say. 

BosoxJoe5
BosoxJoe5

@racerxgundam Those are sequels that should sell very well. People really enjoyed both series. Have you seen the price for a used copy of LM? Do you know LM:DM is ranked 19 in video games on Amazon? That is extra impressive when you realize 10 of the items ranked higher in video games are either a subscription card, controller, or Skylander figure. Did you really think people don't care about LM?

Mariuk
Mariuk

@racerxgundam I know what you're talking about.... Super Mario Galaxy, the last real project he was involved into was such a disgusting game, it's so sad to think how he lost is touch.... O_O

nonfanboygamer1
nonfanboygamer1

@Getbacktogaming Yeah it's sad that the current state of gaming is in a never ending circle of sequels, except for the low budget indie games which are little more than cell phone games.

CTM161
CTM161

@badwedgie00The SNES didn't top the Genesis in sales until fairly late in its life cycle. Times vary depending on various studies, but concur that SEGA's console was more popular early on and definitely had a larger head start considering its debut years earlier, so saying it "triumphed" as early as a year or two after its debut is ignorant. I also don't know what you're talking about with Street Fighter 2, because not only was that a multiplatform title, it sounds like you're describing the advantages the Genesis had with its later-released 6-button controller (which in my opinion was fairly superior to the SNES version). The SNES didn't have six buttons; not for controlling direct gameplay, that is (i.e. ignoring Start and Select, which if you included would mean calling the later Sega controller an 8-button), and ignoring the directional pad as a button in this definition. Also, I'd say it was more likely for people to play games like Street Fighter on the Genesis rather than SNES, because as SEGA was an arcade title publisher at the time they ended up porting many of their titles to the Genesis, so that people could do exactly what you brought up. Racing games are a good example of this in addition to fighting games.

badwedgie00
badwedgie00

@SavoyPrime Maybe he'll go work for Sony.  It would be awesome seeing a new Metroid for both PS3 and PS4.

Elem187
Elem187

@SloganYams I'm completely happy with it... I logged hundreds of hours in 360/ps3, and nothing over 6 years has made me decide to pick up a PS3/360.. My PC runs the multiplat games far better, and looks much better. The only selling point about 360/ps3 was according to its fangirls was graphics, but I never saw that as a strength in the ps360.... Nintendo never bills itself as cutting performance and graphics, so its unfair to ding them on something that isn't a priority for them. PS360 on the other hand, thats all they have. Everything else they do is copied from Nintendo.

I got the Wii U for Christmas, and I haven't had this much fun with console in a LONG time... more than a decade.... it might not compare to my PC for shooter/graphics, but its by far the most innovative system I have used in the last 10 years.

alrepairs
alrepairs

@chun-IDGAF-li LOL,

I can't wait until you turn 60...see if you can swallow that statement.

Don't worry...you'll be there very quickly.

Elem187
Elem187

@Hells_rebelion I didn't buy the Wii U to play multiplat games. I have a PC that does that better than any console could ever hope to do. I bought the system primarly for Nintendo games and for the other 3rd party exclusive gems that might come out (Xenosomething, bayo2, wonderful 101)

I don't need multiplat games on it, my PC already runs circles around what Sony showed us last month.

racerxgundam
racerxgundam

@abHS4L88 @racerxgundam First off, read my response to the guy above you. now some pts: 

1.) Having a variety of good titles is better than just a trickle of  titles, especially when that trickle is shovelware sequels. Your soooo against mindless clusterfucks? hey guess what..so am i..but how about some GREAT rpg's? opps seems like nintendo doesn't even TRY

Nintendo fanboys want to act as if they are the sole inheritors of quality, dude u are getting spoonfed the SAME slop those FPS and Sport game masses you decry...how many freaking pokemon and kart games can you play in your life?

2.) Its more than them being "themselves", the truth of the matter is NOA has pretty much giving up on the American market as a whole, and publish what succeeds in region 4 as opposed to Region 1. They are not downplaying "FPS" for instance because they are these great visionaries and defendants of videogames, they don't because "FPS" is a DEAD genre in japan. 

3.) Past successes does not mean you should blindly forgive NOA's deficiences. If you don't demand for more, guess what? you get less.

So pretty much dude, take off the knee pads.

racerxgundam
racerxgundam

Sell well?...lemmie respond here. This will be long....

1.) well first party titles have usually sold well to the five people that have bought Nintendo hardware the last few iterations since pretty much Nintendo's only consistent software publisher is Nintendo itself.

2.) To use the re-sale market to gauge the "popularity" of a game is truly not understanding how that market truly works. Its too long to get into, but VARIOUS factors, oftentimes variables that seem contradictory in nature affect pricing. Some games that weren't even popular far exceed their initial cost. The fact that LM might have a high re-sale value on Amazon is meaningless since that site and ebay tend to have peeps that try to gouge the consumer. Its pretty meaningless to say "hey look...LM at 50 bucks! Win!" when say statistically, less than 1% of the units sell at that price. I dont' know much concerning the ranking of the items on Amazon, but that can be affected acutely by availability as opposed to popularity and it DEFINITELY doesn't track selling prices, so its quite possible that under cutting by sellers could be at work there as well. Plus collector's throw a monkey wrench in the whole equation. A better picture, although it can get skewed, is using gamestop's resale prices. Like i am going to take a guess here and say that you arent a hardcore JRPG fan because that genre more so than others, illustrate how that market sways..so for ur own enlightment, read up on the following:

Panzer Dragoon Saga = Scarcity + Great reputation/Word of mouth + failed system + Expected fail in the US market by publisher/developer ...look at the prices..and before you go to cardiac arrest seeing how gross it is, REALIZE that its been a stable price for like the last 8 years or so, notice how condition affects price...notice how region affects price. This game was for all intents and purposes a commercial failure, even in japan because it came just before the tsunami which was FFVII.

The daytona game on the dreamcast that has some sort online component enabled (i dont remember what the deal was, but it resulted in the game having a black sticker thing on the inside of the package), the "black label" preference for PS1 games as opposed to "greatest hits" labeling regardless of commercial or critical success, the metal gear 3 that had some online junk in it that was eventually disabled, it had a "red cover" i believe, these are prime examples of the collector's effect. Remember that collectors tend to be older and nostalgic, so it is logical that some of the nintendo titles are affected by this heavily. 

A better gauge for the relative success of a game, and the statistic that game companies use is the month to month sales, and to a lesser extent, preorders. Now in the games in questions LM and pikmin might sell well relative to the hardware they are on...If you compare how other titles fare.. the GOW's, call of duty, halo, and say the Maddens of the world...those two titles ARE BLOWN out the water and rightly so, NO ONE should give a fuck because both games are average at best. THE REASON WHY MADDEN FOR EXAMPLE DOESNT HAVE A HIGH RESALE VALUE IS BECAUSE THEY SOLD IN INCREDIBLE NUMBERS...its WIDELY circulating,. Plus the series is updated. With LM, it didnt penetrate incredibly well...a sequel was just recently announced and like there might be some movement as of late, as pretty much there isnt alot to select to begin with. 

Its simultaneously noble and sad you defending NOA here, but jesus man, DEMAND more from the people you hand your money and like take off the damm kneepads. I grew up with Nintendo just like you, just because we share some fuzzy memories with mario and gang you don't have to apologize for their failures as a company as a whole.

CTM161
CTM161

Forgot to mention the SNES controller's shoulder buttons. Doesn't change what I say about SEGA's later controller, though, and I'd still argue its button configuration was superior when playing a fighting game like Street Fighter 2 considering the difference in button placement. This also, of course, doesn't change the fact that Street Fighter 2 most certainly wouldn't have been a system-seller for SNES, as a later commenter pointed out (though he also made a few rather reaching assumptions himself).

abHS4L88
abHS4L88

@racerxgundam @abHS4L88 

1. Who said anything about shovelware sequels? If you don't like it, fine, but it doesn't make it shovelware since obvious care and effort has been placed on these games. Like you stated in the other comment, Nintendo pretty much puts majority of the quality software on their consoles and considering that, they do an amazing job at it so yeah, they do try. Great RPGs? Could've sworn we just got the amazing Fire Emblem Awakening last month along with 2 new RPGs for the Wii U revealed in the January Nintendo Direct, only from Nintendo do far, not even showing what 3rd parties have in store yet. 

I love it when people generalize others based on pretty much no evidence. I've never owned a core Pokemon title (last one I played was Yellow and only Pokemon game I own so far is Pokemon Conquest). I'm perfectly fine with MarioKart (even though I only really got into it starting with Double Dash) since each new entry changes things up just enough to make it feel refreshing. Although after Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed, Nintendo really needs to take the genre to the next level. 

2. They're offering experiences that are not as common place in the industry as well as publishing games that have the potential to do great. With pretty much every other major developer doing their own FPS, why would Nintendo bother with the genre when they can be putting out something else. 

3. Who says I'm blindly forgiving anything? Unlike those who think Nintendo's infallible and those who thinks Nintendo can't do anything right, I recognize but at the same time understand Nintendo's faults and decisions. For the most part, it doesn't take that much business knowledge to understand what they're doing and why they're doing it. I'd much rather have companies do what they do best than have them succumb to the demands of idiots who don't know what they hell they want. That way, I rarely ever get frustrated and I'm almost always pleased with what I get and can make the most out of it. 

CTM161
CTM161

@racerxgundam The reason for the range of marks is because SEGA never released sales figures for its console, so people have had to make educated guesses. However, seeing as how I'd rather trust them than nothing at all (or make things up like the poster I responded to), it is why I said what I did. I can say, though, that your assertion appears rather odd, for it requires one of two unlikely scenarios: if it was a virtual tie shortly after the SNES was released, two years after SEGA's console, it would mean either massive sales in a short timeframe to catch up, or that the Genesis sold poorly in those two years. I know for a fact that the latter is not true because it's known to have been a hit almost immediately in places like Brazil and Europe, both of which had already been enamored with the previous Sega Master System and, as many of the sames studies I mentioned agree, briefly overtook Nintendo's market share in North America. The former is just ridiculous, especially when you consider many of the SNES' hits (the ones that weren't first-party, that is) were later titles. It makes more sense for the console to gain steam like a freight train, which is what I would use as an analogy to describe the SNES. SEGA, for instance, eventually changed focus in the mid-1990s towards the Saturn, and we all know how that turned out. Nintendo made no similar effort, which I think helped their console considerably in its late push.

We seem to agree with the arcade focus Genesis took so I won't say more on that subject (I'd previously retained what I said about it to remain relevant with the previous commenter's post). Same goes for the original Mortal Kombat, which anyone alive and playing games at the time would have known about (it paved the way for the ESRB, after all!). As for Street Fighter 2, what you say is true when you consider the original SEGA controller...which is why I referred to the later version (which was bundled with all Geneses/Mega Drives after its debut and also bundled with said game some places around the world). You seem wanting to argue (or assert) SNES superiority or dominance via this game and this subject, though, which isn't what I was doing: if you recall, I was stating personal preference, and gave the opinion that those who like arcade games would like SEGA's console more. Since you are, though, I'd like to point out that it's just as much of an opinion to say that this game was a "momentum swing" title. You base the whole argument on fighting games as a genre, for starters (which is a weak foundation to stand on considering the wide range that exist), and use examples that aren't facts by any means ("damage was done" when Mortal Kombat II was released? wrong use of the phrase aside, where's your proof of this?). I'd argue that SEGA's 6-button controller was much more intuitive to a fighting game than the SNES' ever was. I'd imagine the two shoulder buttons are too awkwardly placed for me to use as effectively when I have to rely on them constantly. I wouldn't know for certain, however, because I never used the SNES to play fighting games. Another thing you seem keen on is proving the original SEGA controller was flawed. However, it really wasn't; in fact, its simple design was great for what it was supposed to do. It just wasn't the best option for games like Street Fighter 2 or Mortal Kombat, which required more buttons.

racerxgundam
racerxgundam

@CTM161 Your only partially correct here. First off your dead on with the competition at the time...early on it was VERY close, closer than most people realize (which is amazing when you reflect on the libraries of both systems) and i will go so far as to say that genesis was winning in the US territory initially....although internet searches on the raw data are suspect, i have seen a WIDE range of sales marks...so like its impossible to say definitively but even with some clouded numbers it does seem like an early release moved systems to the point that it was a virtual tie between the systems as SNES began its cycle. 

One of the reason why Genesis was so successful was in part because Arcades were still viable and important in the industry. Thus Genesis's ability to port arcade favorites fairly well worked heavily into their advantage, it also explains in part the reasoning behind packing the system with "altered beast" by no means a great game, but it served to show that a popular arcade title could  more or less be faithfully done on the Genesis. This definitely spoke to the American "hardcore" (i use it here for convenience sake but i cannot tell you how much i hate this term in gaming lexicon) gamers of the time, who were the arcade heads gunning for high scores or bragging rights. Yes there were JRPG fans at the time, but they were not as prominent in the early life of the systems anywhere but in the Asian/Japanese market.

Fighting games, which existed before, definitely became a definable commodity in the heart of 16-bit era and soon became the game of choice for the "hardcore" American crowd, and Genesis scored a win fall when Nintendo censored the first Mortal Kombat. No real comparisons were made between the games (in terms of graphics, frames, speed, or controls) Genesis simply had the better port in the eyes of the gaming masses for its unadulterated fatalities. 

When Street Fighter 2 appeared on both systems its overall impact is undeniable. By no means was it a system mover as we understand it, both systems had established themselves by this time and essentially appealed to different crowds, but Street Fighter 2 demonstrated to the genesis base that true to arcade ports could be handled better by SNES. Its one of the few times that i can remember where both systems had a popular arcade port to compare, and here alot of the flaws of the genesis was brought to light namely the control the scheme. The SNES version allowed you to play with no major alterations to the control scheme. The three button genesis was not true to the port and requiring the purchase of a specialized controller to play the game simply meant a higher price point for a title that was rendered better on the SNES to begin with. Genesis sold itself on speed (anyone remember blast processing?) and faithful reproduction (e.g. strider) and here you had a mega popular game where direct comparisons could be made, and the net effect was that this won some of the genesis base to the super nintendo. By the time nintendo released MK II the damage had been done, and the Genesis never really recovered. Street Fighter 2 was a momentum swing at the time, and one of the reasons why the SNES eventually wins the sales number battle. 


Elem187
Elem187

@badwedgie00 @nintendoboy16 Myamoto doesn't own Mario/Zelda/Metroid. Nintendo does. So even if Myamoto were to work for Sony, he couldn't bring the IP's he created for Nintendo over.

But with Sony playstation with 95%% shooters, do you really think he would be happy designing shooters?  Its the only genre that really sells well on the PS3.. go look at the charts, 90-95%% is shooters.. you have a few rare gems like Ni No Kuni and Little Big Planet, but the rest are just dull, stale violent god of war games (do people really enjoy this garbage?)

wcwj26
wcwj26

 @badwedgie00 There's more change of Patcher joining Sony than Miyamoto!

badwedgie00
badwedgie00

@nintendoboy16 Don't be too sure. I'm only speculating, but I'll laugh if, days after alleged retirement, Miyamoto-san's singing the praises of PS4.  I'll laugh even harder if they make him design a game where Mario's blasting zombie heads off, and anticipate a much darker version of Zelda.