id Software's first Doom 4 project "didn't have the passion and soul"

Now-scrapped first version of Doom 4 "had a bit of schizophrenia, a little bit of an identity crisis. It didn't have the passion and soul of what an id game is," said id Software.

Bethesda and id Software have spoken about the now-cancelled version of Doom 4, saying that the studio's original attempt at the game didn't feel like a Doom game.

A leaked image of Doom 4, believed to be from the now-scrapped version.

A new version of Doom 4 is now underway at id Software, but in an interview with IGN studio director Tim Willits spoke about why it cancelled its first attempt.

"It wasn't one thing," explained Willits. "It wasn't like the art was bad, or the programming was bad. Every game has a soul. Every game has a spirit. When you played Rage, you got the spirit. And [Doom 4] did not have the spirit, it did not have the soul, it didn't have a personality. It had a bit of schizophrenia, a little bit of an identity crisis. It didn't have the passion and soul of what an id game is."

"Everyone knows the feeling of Doom, but it's very hard to articulate," added Willits.

Doom 4 was originally confirmed in May 2008 via a press release, though the project was scrapped in late 2011. Bethesda confirmed in April 2013 that development on the game had been rebooted, after sources at the time claimed the original version of Doom 4 borrowed many of its creative elements from modern shooters such as Call of Duty.

Bethesda vice president of marketing Pete Hines added that Doom 4 needs to be worth the wait. “If it was like the quintessential, 'yup, that’s Doom 4,' then we wouldn’t be having this conversation," he said.

"But, it was something that we looked at and the id guys looked at and said, look, it’s not even that something is necessarily bad. But is it good enough? You can make a game and say, 'that's not a bad game, but it's not as good as an Elder Scrolls game should be,' and there's a difference…it's not great. It's not amazing. It's not what people have waited all this time for. It needs to be like ‘this was totally worth the wait.'"

"I think what the guys at id are working on is…they're pushing the boundaries and challenging themselves. I don’t want anybody to look at id’s next project and have this reaction that it's still stuck in the '90s," concluded Hines.

While images of Doom 4 have surfaced online, these are believed to have been from the now-scrapped version. "Those images have nothing to do with what you're gonna see in Doom 4," said id Software design director Matthew Hooper.

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212 comments
charlievo
charlievo

look like Fallout Vegas with no mods and with crappy graphics. 

jgarbuz
jgarbuz

I loved the original Doom in the 1990s and played the Hell out of it and with hundreds of mods as well. Played it with mods for two years straight. But I was thrilled with DOOM 3. I did not expect Doom 3 to be like Doom and Doom 2. Time moves on. Half Life and Half Life 2 had come and gone. How can you go back nearly 20 years? Nostalgia run amok. If all you want is mindless gun 'n run or slash 'n bash there are hundreds of Jap games that provide that.  Doom 4, if it develops, has to be some kind of continuation of Doom and Resurrection but at an even more intense level.  Why would I even want to buy yet a another new so-called "next gen" console to play 1994 graphics in 2014?

joefb
joefb

argh, forgot one other thing, sorry:  for the luvva God, come out with a PC version above all.  Not all of us are teens/20somethings with a fancy "video box" - but pretty much all of us have PCs.

joefb
joefb

PS we don't really need a "story."  Honestly did anyone ever pay much attention to that in DOOM?  This isn't an RPG, it's an FPS.  Or it SHOULD be.

Twiztid-Maddox
Twiztid-Maddox

Rage was a terrible game, sounds like Doom 4 was going to be better than Doom 3 atleast!

shymph
shymph

Doom 3 was by far the best in the series.  It had all the action you needed, with focus on strategy in a realistic manner.  4 Guys in a room, you gotta think quick to survive.  The graphics were amazing and the horror aspect scared me way more than the original doom series, which was barely scary at all most of the time.  Think realistically people, Doom 3 shattered our concept of horror style gaming while keeping it loaded with action, an excellent story that unfolds as you play, and graphics that were revolutionary in their time, and are still pretty kick ass by todays standards.  I hope Doom 4 follows in the footsteps of Doom 3, keeping the action well placed and critical, not just waves of enemies.  This isn't Diablo. (also an amazing series, 1, 2 and 3. More so 1 and 2.)

Slagar
Slagar

"... 'that's not a bad game, but it's not as good as an Elder Scrolls game should be,"

Wait, they're using Elder Scrolls games as their quality benchmark? That says a lot.

TheWatcher000
TheWatcher000

Neither Did Rage, But You Released That Piece Of Shit Anyway.

skyx26
skyx26

PC Players are sometimes a bunch of bitches. For real. When COD MW came out  everything was "Ohhh what a nice game", but when MW 2 & 3 came out, everybody was upset because it was a rail shooter... ORLY??? Don't blame the developers, they only give what players want. Take Halo for example, people likes to talk shit about Halo shield system "but it's so unnatural, nobody heals like MC in Halo...", well it's true, but at the end players should remember that:

1. MC is using a combat suit, so what gets deplenish is the energy for the combat suit shield, so, once the shield is gone is MC life what's at stake. 2 shots and MC is dead.

2. Halo is a futuristic FPS so it's ok to try such things.

Implementing an unnatural way of healing is STUPID, and it was SO STUPID using such system in a game like COD MW.

So, what's the solution?. Let's get back to the past, in Doom and Quake you recover health by taking medikits scatter around. Is it natural?, of course not, and if developers do such a thing right now, every player will bitch about it. I think Half-Life take a more "realistic" approach: medical stations and shield stations for the HEV suit, and medikits placed where the soldiers are or where someone died.

I'm saying this because health management and combat are tied together. If Doom 4 returns to huge waves of enemies, iD will implement an unnatural healing system and players will bitch about it. And that's the point: the soul of Doom is constant battle against waves of hell demons, it's that satanic ambient of pentagrams, blood coming out of walls, walls made of flesh, etc, etc, etc. It's having 7 fucking weapons with you at all times and choosing WHEN using them...

I really, REALLY hope iD resurrect Doom 4 in THAT way, and NOT in a COD MW way. Don't get me wrong, I think MW series was a good game with a very nice story, and so is Halo, but Doom it's not like those games and should NOT imitate them.

predatorGS
predatorGS

Some people say they didn't like Doom 3 because it was too much like Doom 1 and 2... Other don't like it because it was not like Doom 1 and 2....


I'm confused (happens a lot)

karloss01
karloss01

I hope it follows Doom 1 and 2 gameplay and not Doom 3. don't get me wrong doom 3 was good but it didn't feel like a doom  game at all as it was never about horror.

Meta-Gnostic
Meta-Gnostic

I'm a huge Doom fan. What I've always wanted is a Doom in the style of the 2 original games, but updated in visuals, features, and game play. It would be perfect for XBLA/PSN.

Detriiment
Detriiment

I really hope they do a good job on this game... I want to like it!

Vodoo
Vodoo

I'm glad that id finally realized that they were, essentially, "stuck in the 90's." I didn't even like Doom 3 all that much because it was more of the same old walking down dark hallways with the same monsters and the same [metal- all-around-me] levels. It was just tired and over done, especially when it wasn't that exciting in the first place. 

Even though Rage failed in a lot of areas, it was a step in the right direction... outside. The shooting mechanics and controls were top-notch. But everything in the static environment was nailed down and unmovable. You could drive a truck into a milk carton and the truck would be totaled. An exaggeration, but you get the point. It would've been much better if they gave the environment some life as well. 

So I'm hoping id takes what it has learned from these past games and comes out with something incredible.... But I don't think it's gonna happen. Once they made levels that could be seen, as opposed to everything in the dark in Doom, they had issues. I also feel that they're too stuck in their ways to enforce the real change that's needed. Hopefully I'm wrong, but only time will tell.

arc_salvo
arc_salvo

As long as they can afford to wait I think it's a good thing.  Not releasing something that's bad takes integrity, which is something a lot of developers and publisher's don't have these days.

Kusann
Kusann

Take your time id, and make the "a "NEW" sequel every year" bitches cry in a corner. I'd rather have a game that takes years to develop and delivers a great experience, than a rushed sequel with almost nothing new but a few weapons. Also id are the masters of FPS. 

Selim Aslan
Selim Aslan

After that RAGE disaster, after what Carmack did (and said) about tech issues and complaints about RAGE (literally, they did nothing) i am not sure of the quality of anything they produce will be anywhere near Quake III or Doom III.

محمد عمرو
محمد عمرو

اما الهياط 4 سنين وتلغوها بهي البساطة

Litchie
Litchie

Hope it'll be as good or better than Doom 3. Cause no matter what people say, Doom 3 was an awesome game. Rage could've been awesome if it was longer, but as long as it lasted, it was nice. id are masters of making shooting things fun. 

digits52
digits52

Well this can mean only one thing, G-man is on the prowl and we will soon hear a HL3 announcement

midnightworld
midnightworld

I told you Doom 4 was in the desert next to E.T.

mischiefmeerkat
mischiefmeerkat

so much strife over Rage. I thought Rage was an awesome shooter. great graphics, great animation, great music, and the setting had so much potential.

The biggest problem for me was the "fetch quest" story was so boring.

hadlee73
hadlee73

If their intention was to throw out what they had already done and make something that has a similar feel to Rage, then they may have just thrown out an award-winner.

Curt Sonnet
Curt Sonnet

DOOM 3 was crap, so if it was going at all in the same direction then it's no loss at all.

DarkReign2552
DarkReign2552

I think there's a point they need to cross where they admit that DOOM needs to stop being DOOM. Obviously we still want it to be the one-man army taking on hordes of demons from Hell, but beyond that, what is DOOM anyway? It's a mindless First-Person shooter with big guns. We've got enough of those already as it is. TIme to start changing things up. i want DOOM 4 to be a DOOM 2 remake like DOOM 3 was a remake of the original. By that, I mean I want it to be set on Earth. 

What I want to see, however, is enormous outdoor environments. I want to be able to traverse entire cities and destroy buildings as I fight to take Hell down. I want skyscrapers collapsing around me and portals warping in sections of hell as it grafts itself into our realm (similar to DmC's limbo perhaps) to be able to use any vehicle in the environment, be it the tank left behind by the military or the little Prius in the dealership lobby. I want to be able to use everything in my environment as a weapon (not like Dead Rising, but more like Condemned and Half-Life 2.) I want to see different locales like Banks, casinos, suburban neighborhoods, restaurants, malls, etc...) For a good idea of what I'm expecting, watch the original 2001 Duke Nukem Forever trailer. I want that level of involvement with the world minus the cheesy parodies and humor (That just wouldn't fit DOOM at all.)


Most of all, I actually want a strong narrative. No more nameless space marine. I want an actual protagonist and I want support characters and a reason to fight besides just surviving. What this narrative will be, I don't know as I haven't taken the time to think about it, but DOOM 3 started pushing in that direction and I want them to push harder.

platypusfriend
platypusfriend

@joefb I'm in my mid-30's, and all I have are a couple consoles any more. PC gaming is too expensive for the average middle-class family to have more than one PC, and overall it's often difficult for those same family members to all know how to competently operate that same PC. We should all be smart enough to do it, but right now we aren't. In my opinion, the Xbox One managed experience is how good coders write user experiences--- the interface was shipped with bugs, I admit, but the potential is clear. I can play games while my wife watches TV on the same screen. And if you don't think I know what I'm talking about, fine. But I used to be a hardcore, peltier-crazed, circuit-board-building, case-modding, PC-or-nothing gamer, and I'm currently a software developer. It was all great until I discovered that real life gaming is about budgeting wisely, not going all-out on a narrow hobby. I appreciate PC gamers and those years of my life will always be special to me; however, they were from a time when I had a single-minded focus and didn't understand all of life's complexities. So, no, I don't have a PC; yet, I hope I speak with the authority of someone who has legitimately "been there and done that" to the highest level. The reality is that PC gaming is the fringe, and I just couldn't see the bigger picture when I, myself, was on that fringe.

theCCyberDDemon
theCCyberDDemon

@shymphEven the good old Doom had more strategy than doom 3. You could kill an IMP with a shotgun but not with a plasma gun. You just use the chaisaw on the melee enemies only etc and etc... I don't know what the hell happened to Doom but I hope this time they do it right.

theCCyberDDemon
theCCyberDDemon

@Slagar A lot like what? You mean, comercially right? Even people who don't play games knows about Skyrim. Bethesda is the kind of devs who strongly believe that bugs don't need brushings and care before launch... because their game are so fantastic great and big so they have a hundreds of excuses.

theCCyberDDemon
theCCyberDDemon

@skyx26They don't give what the players want... how naive of you man. Also, this is a flawed opinion since COD is a consolite favorite for years now. So how can this be a PC fault? They just do what the tendecies says it is right, so they can make their money. Developing is a job and they do not really care for your love, not all of them... maybe the smaller companies but not the big ones anymore. PC will never be brought back to his former glory but I'm sure it will always remains with the smaller companies (smaller doesn't mean poor but short on staff like Id) doing reboots or creating curious new things. Anyway, I feel like this platform is being slowly abandoned for the sake of consolites companies sellings so if you have to put the blame on something, you blame that.

quakke
quakke

@skyx26 

I have never liked CoD and never will. Halo 1&2 were good but now it has also suffered CoDification and no PC version.

If some people were to cry for DooM 4 being a real shooter, they would only be non other than the CoD casuals and the kids mass. They are the shit-rolls that have been raised by CoD and all ridiciolous handholding and therefore they don't even stand a chance in a real shooter.

I think we should just force these real shooters for those casuals and if they can't deal with them, then too bad. Time to leave the gaming scene, since it has never been about any cinematic experience only and hell as sure still ain't about some cinematic experience only, it's about fun gameplay experience.

AC3R665
AC3R665

@skyx26 PC players? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but MW sold more on consoles and hence you think that console players were the ones bitching. "everything was "Ohhh what a nice game", but when MW 2 & 3 came out, everybody was upset because it was a rail shooter" You gotta realize AT THE TIME, it was kinda different now its just stagnate.

quakke
quakke

@Vodoo


"
Rage: The shooting mechanics and controls were top-notch "


Weird logic. When id finally cave to the pressure and made Call of Duty style gameplay, it's top notch? CoD gameplay is the worst ever. id should keep that what's in DooM 1-3. Challenging health management not some lame sitting in cover while health magically restores. Ironsights are the second factor just slowing down the gameplay and making it dumb. ADS in realistic simulator such as RO, OF or ARMA is okay but fastpaced actiongame like DooM should steer clear from any ADS or other modern nonesense.

joefb
joefb

@Kusann WERE the masters, you mean.  After DOOM2 it was all downhill, and quickly.

karenwen
karenwen

@Kusann The sad thing is that the longer a game takes to be made doesn't necessarily mean that it will be a better game because of the increased dev time. Sometimes you'll wonder what the hell the dev was doing for the past 4+ years why the game turned out to be so bad.

Hell there are games that were scrapped, redeveloped and when it finally came out, turned out to be a huge disappointment. I just hope D4 doesn't end up in that category(they have the scrapped  and are redeveloping it part down already) because Bethesda/Zenimax will see them as a liability and id's days as a developer will be surely numbered.


What matters most is what the devs do in the time given. 


arc_salvo
arc_salvo

@Litchie 

I never finished Doom 3, but I liked what I played.  The only thing that bugged me was the not being able to mount a flashlight to a gun thing.  Just seemed odd that far in the future. 

Yeah the duct-tape mod solved things, but only on PC.

arc_salvo
arc_salvo

@mischiefmeerkat 

I liked Rage, it was like a cross between Borderlands and Fallout, but with less inventory management and redundant weapons/items and its own spin.

I liked the fact that it included racing elements that was cut from Borderlands.  Not even sure BL2 has racing in it, even though I haven't finished it quite yet.

Kusann
Kusann

@mischiefmeerkat I liked Rage, but I didn't like the semi-immortal enemies, 1 whole clip to take 1 down, combat was a bit clunky IMO.

Namahsdrol
Namahsdrol

What you described there is 1 f@#king hardcore game. That would be really awesome!

Deadly_Nemesis
Deadly_Nemesis

@DarkReign2552

Here's the thing though. Carmack is still living in the early days of gaming and doesn't believe efforts should be spent on narrative. To him it’s all about the tech and programming and the game part of a game.

I would loooove to see Doom become what you pitched up there. But as long as Dino-Carmack is id. It's not going to happen.

skyx26
skyx26

@AC3R665 No, I did say PC players for a good reason. Console players are, and mostly will, fanboys. That's the way they are. It's like somehow Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft manage to brainwash them so they are ready to die for their consoles. Still today there are fanboys that belive that a PS3 or a 360 have games that looks better than their PC version. Come on!.

PC players behave like bitches because they can. If a user from PSN or Xbox Live behaves like a bitch Sony or Microsoft put him down for good. But PC world is an untamed best that NO ONE controls, so if someone can act like a bitch he will surely act like a bitch because he can and there will be no consequences. Look what happend when Jedi power battles didn't came out for PC, look what happend when HL2 came out. PC players are like a spoiled kid that is never happy, no matter what developers do. Look what happend with Fez 2...

Of course, when MW came out rail shooters where innovative, when MW2 came out it was still kinda fresh, when MW 3 came out it wasn't.

As @quakke points out below, problem is console players and their dominant position in gaming. They don't have a goddam mouse nor a keyboard, so they can't play as well as PC players, developers must then lower the standar of the game to match the posibilities of console players. The main problem here is, again, pc players and their attitude. "EA and Activision are evil companies, don't buy they games, pirate them instead", that way of thinking is taking the game industry right to console grounds, and what do PC players about that?, bitch about it... Geez, it's like the egg and the chicken dilema.

quantumtheo
quantumtheo

@arc_salvo @Litchie Doom 3 BFG edition adds a use any time flash light, but takes away the zoom button, go figure... I think the BFG edition is well worth it, widescreen support out of the box, and a lost chapter.

arc_salvo
arc_salvo

@Namahsdrol 

I agree, that sounds like a great pitch.  I recommend sending it to ID and seeing if they do something with it.