Pillars of Eternity: The White March Part 2 Review

At the end of eternity

Pillars of Eternity comes to an end in The White March Part 2. This second chapter to what will apparently be the only expansion for Obsidian’s epic RPG resolves a couple dangling plot threads and tacks on a cataclysmic conclusion that ties into the greater mythology of the world of Eora. But while the add-on works by providing the apocalyptic story players expect, it fails due to heavy, dreary combat, a main storyline that runs on rails, and the absence of many little things that tend to make RPGs memorable.

As expected, The White March Part 2 picks up right after its predecessor ended. Rest once outside of the White March district on your map and the action begins with an ominous dream about the entire area being wiped out by an invading army. Head back up to the town of Stalwart and you discover that this dream may be something of a prophecy: an actual army under the name of the Iron Flail is encamped outside the ancient Durgan’s Battery fortress with a plan to seize the mystical White Forge for their own sinister purposes.

But all that sounds better than it actually plays. Your trials begin by going over old ground in Durgan’s Battery and the Stalwart mines. The Battery’s cannons need to be fired up to help against the inevitable attack from the enemy army, and the mines are being plagued by some kind of mysterious plague that is turning men into crazed killers. Both quests are fairly enjoyable, although it is more than a bit disappointing to start this new expansion by heading right back to places that you already apparently scoured of villainy.

There aren't many new features outside of the story to draw you in, either. The hub for all of your northern activities remains Stalwart, which looks pretty much the same as it did before. Just a few side quests are offered, mostly uninteresting fare like searching for a runaway little girl and killing a few more outlaws for bounties, along with some stronghold assignments that world-build while you’re dungeon delving. The level cap has been bumped up to 16 from the previous 14. Both the menu and skill systems have been slightly tweaked, although not in any headlining fashion. The only new party member here is a barbarian named Meneha, whose bleak past is oddly matched with the voice of a hillbilly housewife. Her backstory and personal quest ties nicely into the main plot, although she’s only in for the ride, as you both wind up having to visit the Abbey of the Fallen Moon, site of some interesting happenings in the far-distant past.

There's no shortage of beautiful environments in The White March Part 2
There's no shortage of beautiful environments in The White March Part 2

That main plot leading to the abbey is pretty intriguing. The first part of The White March focused on the local story of Stalwart and the isolated dungeon of Durgan’s Battery, but this second part goes all-out. It is a tale of the gods, towering automaton enemies called Eyeless that seem to have been pulled right out of old Thor comics, and--surprise--the potential end of the world. Art in the new locations matches this larger-than-life feel, too. The abbey is a haunting ancient ruin, like something you might see if you had a time machine and a hankering to visit Crete. And the poignant music interplays with everything to make for some truly memorable moments.

As with the first part of The White March, the second hammers you with battle after battle. Even worse, you face the same collection of foes over and over again in each section of the map.

Still, the plot becomes a negative because the game places too much emphasis on it. The preamble side quests and bounty tasks can be wrapped in just a few hours. Then you charge right into the main quest and stay there for another seven or eight hours until the conclusion of the game. Everything is a little too relentless, with the story pushing you forward on a one-way track rather than opening up and drawing you in. There's too little time to take in the world and events on your own terms, be it by engaging in optional chit-chat with NPCs or by venturing off the beaten path in search of unexpected surprises.

Another significant drawback is the preponderance of combat. As with the first part of The White March, the second hammers you with battle after battle. Even worse, you face the same collection of foes over and over again in each section of the map. As the game plods on, though, repetition and monotony take over. When storming back into Durgan’s Battery, you duke it out with nearly identical mobs of Skuldrak. When in the mines, you face a succession of nearly identical mobs of Radiant Sporelings and Vithrack. When in the abbey, you face off with nearly identical mobs of monks and warriors. And so on.

Battles are incessant and chaotic to a fault.
Battles are incessant and chaotic to a fault.

There isn’t much imaginative game design on display here, and many of common fights are overly difficult. You can get wiped out a few times by random gangs of goons, then steel yourself for an epic boss and wind up flying through it in a single try. As a result, combat gets rather annoying and regularly drags the game down. Everything is pretty chaotic, too, with it being very tough to track which character is which when massed together in melee combat with the foes in the aforementioned mobs.

By the time The White March Part 2 wraps up, you will probably be ready to say farewell to Pillars of Eternity.

One saving grace is the new Story Mode difficulty setting. This option is even easier than Easy, to the point where you can pretty much zip through fights on auto-pilot. Granted, this isn’t an ideal solution as it removes the challenge of the game almost entirely. But it is still a good way to skip past the drudgery of the constant scraps with duplicate foes, especially if you just want to see how the White March saga ends.

By the time The White March Part 2 wraps up, you will probably be ready to say farewell to Pillars of Eternity. While this is undoubtedly a great RPG franchise, both parts of this expansion feel more like leftovers bulked up with unnecessary combat than anything really crucial to the overall experience provided in the core game. Too much emphasis on battles and too tight a focus on the main story--as interesting as it can be at times, especially if you’re interested in the mythology of Eora--makes the game something of a forced march that removes the wonder of exploring an open world.

The Good

  • Epic conclusion
  • Beautiful environments
  • Brilliant soundtrack

The Bad

  • Monotonous combat sequences

About the Author

Brett spent around 12 hours trudging through the snowy wastes of the White March.
178 Comments  RefreshSorted By 
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Gelugon_baat

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Edited By Gelugon_baat

@Verenti: Oh, you are one to say that I don't know what I am talking about. After all, you didn't know about the mines before you read the review, don't you?

Yet, here you are, criticizing the review, even though the reviewer knows more of the game than you do.

I will admit that I have mistaken the mines and caves for connecting areas, that much I will do because I did not double-check my research in my haste to poke at a gap in your statements - but your knowledge of the game is not complete either.

Also, knowing more about your position now, I get the impression that in your first playthrough, you rushed through the so-called main storyline, specifically "The Forgotten Army". Before this review, your knowledge is limited to the main areas. After all, what you have described of the game thus far in specific detail are these places, and it's not like the side areas don't have plot-related stuff.

On the other hand, I will say that I can't be sure about what you did either - because there is no place known as "Durgon's Hold" - and this is a phrase you said - in the game. The place that you were supposed to refer to is "Durgan's Battery". You can't even get the names right.

Yet here you are making an argument in favor of the game when you don't completely know about what you are talking about.

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RogerioFM

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@Gelugon_baat: Did he mean Chauvinistic? Because I feel really dumb for not knowing what Chavenistic means.

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Gelugon_baat

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@RogerioFM: Yes, I believe he meant that. If it's a real word, then I think it's similar to the made-up phrases like Bush-ism. Maybe it has something to do with a certain late Venezuelan leader.

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Verenti

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@Gelugon_baat: are you for real? I didn't know about an optional side quest and got the name of a fortress wrong versus you, who have fundamental gaps in your knowledge of the basic content of this expansion, the form and layout of said content and completely rely on second hand sources to base this intrinsically faulty knowledge on.

This chavenistic streak is completely irrational and ridiculous that it verges on parody.

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Gelugon_baat

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Edited By Gelugon_baat

@Verenti: What the f*ck, really? "Chavenistic"? "Verges on parody"?

You have used these phrases without explaining why you used them, you misspelled one of them, and on top of these, you get the names of places in the game wrong. Yet, you had the audacity to say to me earlier "that's just how language works"?

You have no more arguments, really, and I will rub this in again: you played the game, but you didn't know about some content in the game before coming over to knock on this review, and what you know, you made mistakes in recalling them.

Also, I will own up to the mistakes of not doing my research properly, but if you are implying that first-hand experience trumps second-hand research, that's just a temporary advantage. What you know, I can know, sooner or later. It's the age of the Internet, in case you need the reminder.

The only mistake that you have caught me on is my remark about the connecting areas. I would like to see you point out any other "intrinsically faulty knowledge", especially considering what I know now came from people who played the game.

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Verenti

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@Gelugon_baat: I used them without explaining them because there is a book that does that for me. It is called a dictionary. And I'm sorry if my spelling at 5 am isn't flawless, but if that's your headline complaint, I really think you've very little in your argument as a whole. I have caught you almost repeatedly in your lack of knowledge. You didn't know that most of the combat in the game was avoidable, because you asked me "Can you describe how the combat is "optional", when the official description of the game clearly mentions that it harks back to Icewind Dale?" As if being inspired by Icewind Dale is somehow a guarantor that it would be a story minimal experience. Then, yes, you were unaware how the areas were connecting. These together demonstrate a lack of understanding in how the content is structured on both a micro and a macro level.

As such, I don't really feel the need to continue this exchange, because your biggest arguments are not based on ideas but on how terrible that I don't double check my late-night/early morning internet comments for spelling.

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Gelugon_baat

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@Verenti: I will, of course, have a limited knowledge of the game, because what I know is second-hand - but like I said, this will only be a temporary advantage for you.

Also, I made that query about you describing how "how the combat is "optional" " because i want to know how much you know. You twisted that query to imply that I think that "Icewind Dale is somehow a guarantor that it would be a story minimal experience", even though I have personally played Icewind Dale before and know that to be untrue.

Furthermore, do be reminded that by answering that query, you have revealed that your lack of knowledge of side areas prior to reading this review. You can't cover that with the excuse that you didn't double-check your spelling and recollection of your experience due to late-night hours.

For anyone else reading this, to recap, what you have said thus far about the game are the core areas which are critical to the main quest. You used those to make arguments against the review, when the review also included mention of side areas. Specifically, you argued that some of the fights in the core areas are avoidable, but you omitted the possibility that this argument may not apply to the side areas.

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Gelugon_baat

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@julianboxe: A few years ago, I would agree with you about the matter of having many reviews is better than a few reviews.

Now? No. I have since learned that user reviews tend to be loaded with trolls and sycophants, and Metacritic lists a lot of sites, with no certainty on the policies which are used to vet them.

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jepsen1977

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@Gelugon_baat:

Yes, I have read many of your reviews and the word "troll" and "sycophant" definitely came to mind. Now all your talk about second hand experience made me question how many of the games you review you have actually played and not just watched on YT.

Watching a game and playing a game are two VERY different things. But you being the troll that you are, naturally don't care - nor do you care about gaming but there you go.

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Edited By Gelugon_baat

@jepsen1977: Do point out which of my reviews are trollish or sycophantic then.

Also, I include screenshots from my own playthroughs in my reviews, at least after GameSpot allowed the attachment of pictures in user reviews. I doubt that you bothered to check their originality though.

Rather, I doubt that you even read any of them at all. After all, it seems that when you "review" the games that you play, you just spam numbers. When you don't have the patience to write any reviews, I doubt that you have the patience to read them either.

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Nightmare350

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Edited By Nightmare350

A 5? Really? LMAO

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mogan

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mogan  Moderator

@Nightmare350: Why would he remind you not to read his reviews?

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Nightmare350

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@Mogan:

shush

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mogan

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Edited By mogan  Moderator

@Nightmare350: You could always edit your original post, now that you've calmed down. : p

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r31ya

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@Nightmare350: Remember sequel rule on Gamespot.

if the original got 8, then the sequel have no changes in the gameplay they'll reduce the number to 7 or 6.

This one got sequel score reduction and gameplay problem, hence the score

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Nightmare350

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Edited By Nightmare350

@r31ya: lol you are right, forgot about that my bad : )

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Edited By Gelugon_baat

@Verenti:Oh, that statement of "the plot becomes a negative because the game places too much emphasis on it."

Did you read the passage that comes after it? The passage that comes after is supposed to add context to that statement, specifically that the pacing of the game supposedly rushes things along without giving enough of a breather to the player to appreciate anything else.

You, on the other hand, took that statement and twisted it into implying that the reviewer doesn't like complex story-telling.

As for avoiding combat, I believe that you are overstating the option to avoid combat.

I have come across other reviews, such as this one, which mention that not all fights can be avoided by smooth-talking or sneaking. Some fights are caused by dialogues eventually breaking down into hostilities too, like the one with a certain individual with a few constructs.

Also, I had been looking at the maps for the levels in White March Part 2 and reading some of the guides which had been coming up. I don't see a lot of opportunities to bypass groups of enemies.

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Verenti

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@Gelugon_baat: I did read the rest of the paragraph and know how paragraphs work. It's the topic sentence. It tells you what is in the paragraph. In this case, he says there is too much plot and that it "railroads" you (which again, not true. You aren't stuck doing those quests once you start them. You can literally do them at your own pace.) I twisted nothing. He said, very plainly, the the focus on plot is to the expansion's detriment. His meaning was not vague or in any way open to interpretation. I know you don't like this, but that's just how language works.

You clearly haven't played the game. It should be very obvious to anyone who played that that I am not overstating the extent you can avoid combat. I have beaten this expansion. I have talked my way through those two areas. Now you can call me a liar and cling to this idea you have despite not having first hand experience, but the White March Part 2 has three areas in the main line. The Iron Flail, the Monastery of the Deeps and the Last location. You can talk your way to the leader of the iron flail and then talk him down. You can talk your way into monastery and there are a few hostiles in there, but you can sneak by them. If you don't you have to do 2-5 small fights. In the final section of the expansion, it's pretty combat heavy, you could sneak by most of them, but the boss is a mandatory fight. I have no reason to lie to you about this. I don't care that much.

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Gelugon_baat

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@Verenti: Indeed, I haven't played the game - but I sure can do research on it.

For one, you have not mentioned the connecting areas in between the three areas that you have mentioned, such as the mines and caves. These indeed have combat encounters.

You may not be lying, but you are not telling everything.

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Verenti

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Edited By Verenti

@Gelugon_baat: There aren't connecting areas. You travel from one location to the next directly. I never knew the mines existed until I read this review. You have to talk to someone outside of Durgon's Hold, which asks you to do a sidequest (which you can ignore) and open up the iron flail. Once you beat iron flail you go back to town and they give you the location of the monastery. Once you beat the monastery, you get the location for the final area of the dlc and after going back to durgon's keep for a conversation (the game allows you to teleport directly into the room), the game lets you proceed to the final area -- again allowing you to teleport.

You don't know what you're talking about.

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Gelugon_baat

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@Verenti: Well, that is certainly what he meant in my eyes - and there is nothing wrong with that statement. Plot and pacing design can indeed affect the gameplay experience, and not always for the better.

Not everyone swallows what the game-maker intends for the game, and not everyone can give game-makers so much benefit of the doubt.

I know that you don't like this, but that's how differences in opinions work.

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lostn

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Only one minus point and it gets a 5.

There's been a mass exodus of talent at Gamespot and it shows.

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jecomans

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@lostn: If that's how you 'read' a review, good writing is wasted on you anyway. In the actual text of the review (you know, the actual review?), there are rather a few major issues pointed out.

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DocPhilgood

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@jecomans: Dang dude. The guy made some good points and you went total sperglord.

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berserker66666

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This is what happens when you get casual player to review an RPG game. Miss the days when Kevin VanOrd reviewed games. His reviews were honest and fair.

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Gelugon_baat

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@berserker66666: I would believe you if you actually took game reviews seriously, but you don't.

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maramot

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Edited By maramot

Just don't read reviews from this stupid site. Their reviewers can't play the games they are supposed to review. If Gamespot gives it a 5, then you know it's a must-have.

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THE GOOD: Epic conclusion Beautiful environments Brilliant soundtrack

THE BAD Monotonous combat sequences

Score: 5.

Hahahahahaha.

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esqueejy

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Edited By esqueejy

Disagree. The review sounds more like "I was expecting X and didn't get it, so here's me throwing poop."

1. UI tweaks - Subtle but very good quality of life changes. Shows they care, and hopefully is a hint that they're working on a follow up. It was intended to be nothing more than QOL stuff, so commenting that it's nothing "headlining," as if not being "headlining" is a negative, is a bit weird.

2. No exploration/open-ended gameplay - White March is one of the funnels at the potential end of the game. Clearly, they intended the events to feel precipitous, somewhat beyond your control once begun and like you've been wrapped up in an escalating rush towards some unknown fateful encounter. The amount of combat plays directly into that. this is a very normal story device used in not just games like this, but other game genres, not to mention the stories told in books like Forgotten Realms, which clearly have a close relationship to all these isometric CRPG games. Keep in mind as well that you can play WM during a play-through at around level 7 or 8, meaning you actually do have more than enough exploratory adventuring going on and a buttload of options at that point in your story. It is not just for end game, but can provide a nice epic and exciting story thread to unravel in parallel with the other threads you're tugging on. In fact, I tend to think they intend you to do it in the middle (the level of the spell books you get seems to point to this), and that the level adjustment option for doing it end-game was more so that people with established end-game parties could experience the new content at an appropriate difficulty, rather than having to start a new game. So of course doing it end-game feels a bit like t's "tacked on." People play these games repeatedly for trying new classes and stories, so having an expansion that adds breadth to the middle of the game, rather than providing a new ending adventure, makes perfect sense.

3. Combat - I don't know what you built for a main character or party, but I'm having great fun with combat and like that they've given us plenty to deal with, especially with a dual-wielding flail Cipher as my main (sporting the Durgan enchantment on both flails of course). He attacks so ridiculously fast that Soul Whip rockets him to around 100 Focus at about the time I'm pausing again to issue instructions to everyone, allowing him to rip things apart or crowd control at will. It's silly powerful and super fun, and the more combat the merrier. It also opens up more opportunities for other toons in the party to play to their best. Also, the fact that difficulty of encounters is not predictable and on some smooth curve that makes trash mobs boring is a plus. Having the possibility of a particular group's class/type configuration or the lay of the land where they trigger make things much harder helps keep alive the feelings of tension and that you have to engage in at least some strategy to win. For example, if you position everyone wrong when the ice troll in the mines triggers with several archers and a couple mages up above flanking you along the path (where you might not be able to get to them if said troll is blocking said path), and you might deserve to wipe....not because difficulty was random or unfair or uneven, but because you failed to develop a correct response to the situation.

Also, you are aware that you can position your party however you want, right? Clumping is your own fault.

4. Meneha - I like her. I think the voicing is supposed to convey that she's a bit of a flake, which fits right in with her having bounced from thing to thing to thing in her past.

In any event, you clearly didn't put too much thought into this, especially in light of the complaint that there's no reason to explore, which is totally undermined by the fact that you can and probably were mostly intended to play WM in the middle of a playthrough. "I expected X, but got Y, so here's me throwing poop," is not a legitimate argument. The Pillars team was pretty clear about what you'd be getting and they delivered it. I say 7.5.

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mogan

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@esqueejy: I haven't played through either part of The White March yet, so I can't comment on your other points, but I'm not sure putting UI tweaks behind a $15 expansion you have to buy really shows they care. : \

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esqueejy

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Edited By esqueejy

@Mogan: I'm not sure I understand your point. Charging money for something doesn't automatically mean they don't care. Are you implying it has to be free to indicate they care about their customers and the integrity of their product?

Rather, charging money for something and delivering something worth that price shows they care. The expansion was more than worth the $15. Also, paying attention to the finer details of the user experience and enjoyment definitely shows they care.

As for attacking the price itself, here's some perspective: $15 will buy you 1.5-2 hours in a movie theater watching an overrated Hollywood brainfart ONCE, or it can buy you 10-12 hours of good gameplay that you can repeat as many play-throughs as you want.

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@esqueejy: I'm saying UI tweaks aren't really something I'd expect to need to pay for. That's the kind of thing I'd think would just be in a patch. I mean, I'm not complaining, since I bought the DLC ... but they're charging for UI tweaks here, so it seems weird to say it shows they care. : \

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julianboxe

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Reviewer does not like fights because:

1) He plays on story mode so they are all to easy?

2)He tryed on hard and got this ass wiped because he lacks any strategical thinking?

Chose below

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mogan

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@julianboxe: From the sound of it he didn't like the combat towards the end because there was just too much of it and the encounters were too similar. I didn't get the impression difficulty had anything to do with it.

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esqueejy

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Edited By esqueejy

@Mogan: And yet in the same breath, the reviewer is complaining that the combat was diverse enough to have hard encounters where he didn't expect them. That difficulty variation is a result of the types of mobs mixed together in a given encounter and the formation in which the encounter triggers them....as I illustrated above. The fact that the mobs are all from a similar list from encounter to encounter is typical of any RPG like this, which usually tie the type of mobs you face to the location.

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Edited By julianboxe

@esqueejy: Look at his review on White March part 1. He lists combat as positive.

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/pillars-of-eternity-the-white-march-part-1-review/1900-6416238/

Coherence?

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Gelugon_baat

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Edited By Gelugon_baat

@rainmaker321: If you are going to call the "journo" inept for making use of terms in the wrong way, do explain how so.

Also, for everyone else reading this, this recently-registered GameSpot user thinks that 1998 is the "best" year for PC gaming - expect nostalgic bias from this person.

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Gelugon_baat

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Edited By Gelugon_baat

@rainmaker321: Then what do you think "game design" and "add-on" means, *hm*? You call another person out for not understanding them, so you must have an idea of what you think they mean. Do explain, because you have not done so.

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Gelugon_baat

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Edited By Gelugon_baat

@rainmaker321: No. If you are going to use this deflecting tactic, I would ask you this in turn: are you a puppet account for Obsidian?

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Calikidd86

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@Gelugon_baat: You are acting like the author's proxy. What are you getting out of debating this? It's sad that a random person in the comments has a better grasp on the terminology than the author, a critic, does. It is what it is.

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Gelugon_baat

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@Calikidd86: I don't think that this is "what it is". You don't even explain how it is so.

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Edited By FlorianGh

Gamespot does it again!They didn't have the interest to review one of the best CRPG's of last year (Underrail) and now are talking s**t about Pillars expansion. But damn, they noted 10 to Witcher 3. Were are the details regarding patch 3.0 and the fact that the encounters in TWM 2 are one of the best in the hole game? Obsidian made improvements to the entire game in part 2 not just another DLC. BTW gamespot did you know that Grim Dawn is now released? Where is the review since you write Fallout 4 and Witcher 3 reviews in the day they release?

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DEVILTAZ35

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@floriangh: i haven't played the expansions yet but i noticed you can save money buying the two together so i'll probably do that.

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FlorianGh

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Edited By FlorianGh

@deviltaz35: it's a really good game. It shows that the devs really learned from the vanilla game and made the encounters really good in the expansion plus you have soulbound items and are really great. But it does so much more: you get a quest to defend the Stronghold and you really get to fight in a new location, you also get a lot of improvements for the Stronghold in the main game. This options also apply with 3.0 and you don't need the expansion. Who loved Pillars will also love the entire White March experience : it's closer to Icewind Dale but with more re-activity.

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CC_the_White

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Aside from the combat issue, the main criticism appears to be the move away from an open approach to questing, towards a more linear and main-plot driven approach.

I can absolutely understand that this could be seen as a big problem. My own personal feeling, however, is that a change of structure within a game, particularly a fairly big RPG, can be quite useful. The game Pillars is (arguably) based on most heavily, BG 2, used this shift very well. There were some chapters where you had free reign to go around the world doing various quests, the plot reason being that you had to gather cash, and the practical effect being that those chapters feel really, really open. However, when you were ready to continue the plot, the next chapter or two would be really focused on furthering the main plot, e.g., the Spellhold chapter.

I'd argue that BG2 remains unsurpassed as far as engaging side-quests goes, as each felt on par with something from the main plot. However, having separate chapters for the big story events made the main quests feel distinct, and they felt like a big event with a lot of forward momentum. I have a feeling the creators of the expansion, particularly this part, wanted to do something like that here. For me, I feel it worked quite nicely and changed the pace, and I also felt that moving away from an open structure can help emphasize the stakes (i.e., it avoids the problem of some Bethesda games where your character should be trying to save the world, but goes off to do random unrelated activities).

Just my two cents, of course. All other perspectives are equally valid :)

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