Not once did i say that we should be seeing 16 times better graphics!! Did I??

I made a simple point that we are not seeing anything much better than the XBOX 360 DESPITE HAVING 16 TIMES THE RAM. That's all i said. Thus to clarify, we should be seeing at least 4 times better graphics from 16 times more ram; that was my point! But we are not even seeing 2 times better graphics. Feel me??

SD on the older consoles moved to HD with PS2 and XBOX 360, how is that a reason for seeing the jump in quality? We now have FHD, the same resolution jump from the previous gen. All i hear is excuses, but i'll say it again... "The graphical prowess of the 17 year old Dreamcast console has disproved the sentiment that we have under-powered hardware specs on PS4, quite the contrary, the specs in the PS4 have everything needed to display state-of-the-art amazing graphics, but we are not seeing amazing graphics, therefore the skill-level of the programmers is to blame."

No matter what your excuses are, the quality of graphics on the 17 year old Dreamcast disproves EVERYTHING YOU SAY. That's a fact!

You're not serious, right? Did you think properly before you made that statement?? The hardware specs on the PS4 are in a closed proprietary environment able to be highly optimized, and frankly not to be compared to a PC at all.

And if you read my previous posts in this thread then you will know why i don't agree with you. IMO today's programmers are the problem, not the PS4 hardware or the developers' financial wherewithal. Activision spent $500 million making COD: Advanced Warfare, and yet the graphics in that game were not next gen, so who or what is to blame?

The graphical prowess of the 17 year old Dreamcast console has disproved the sentiment that we have under-powered hardware specs, quite the contrary, the specs in the PS4 have everything needed to display amazing stunning graphics, but we are not seeing stunning graphics, therefore the skill-level of the programmers is to blame.

There seems to be mistaken opinions out there saying that Killzone and The Order1886 having amazing graphics... that's not true! Neither of those two games display anything even close to amazing, they both display something close to the same old garbage we were seeing on the XBOX 360.

Also, as more proof I'll say it again for the hard-of-hearing around here... The PS4 has SIXTEEN TIMES MORE RAM than the XBOX 360, and far better hardware GPU/Compute Units/Execution pipelines etc etc and a low-level API, so how is it that we are seeing only a token gesture increase in visuals on the PS4??? Doesn't make sense! The programmers are the problem, mark my words! The Dreamcast console proves my point.

To many misnomers in this world, and excuses, get your facts straight before making arbitrary non-truths. The PS4 hardware specs are stonkingly good, it's the programmers who are incompetent, trust me.

I already played Killzone and never saw anything with a wow-factor, so you're exaggerating or deliberately lying or blind; which is it?

Nothing so far on PS4 is displaying next gen graphics.

Problem is, on the PS4, some of the graphics actually do look ugly, and that's the crying shame about all this.

But concerning many of the replies in this thread, there have been quite a few people in different forums too, who have been mildly to 'very' disappointed with the graphics performance on the PS4, and now, 2 years after it was released, where's the magic everyone was hoping for? The great next-gen visuals we would be seeing??? But then we got all the peeps saying to wait a little while longer and the graphics would improve, but not once have we seen anything that looks impressive, i mean truly impressive, so i might as well go back to my Sega Dreamcast console.

If we be honest about the graphics performance on the PS4, we're getting a 'slight' improvement over the XBox 360, let's be honest! That's all we're getting. The graphics programmers are fucking useless idiots. SIXTEEN TIMES THE RAM as the X Box 360, and 15 more sophisticated compute units, and yet look at this mess they give us!

There's no excuse for it, except that the programmers are lazy, useless and incompetent.

Just do one thing, go look at the graphics on the Dreamcast console for the game "Headhunter" (Youtube it), and then ask yourself how all these years later with exponentially superior specs and ram and processor speed and compute units, that the PS4 'barely' looks any better with games like "The Last Of Us: Remastered" and "The Old Blood".

And why on earth are people gushing about "The Order 1886"? They say it has stunning visuals... i say, bullshit! What a load of bullshit! I've got "The Order 1886", and either there's something wrong with my 2015 Sony FHD 55inch state-of-the-art new generation 'quantum dot' television, or Game companies are paying people to go into forums and hype the crap out of these games.

Some people come in here claiming 20fps games on the Dreamcast console, but how wrong they are... here's a list of Games on the Dreamcast console that were running at 60fps... Virtua Tennis, Alien Front Online, Crazy Taxi, DOA2, Soul Calibur, Vanishing Point, Daytona USA, Super Magnetic Neo, Red Dog, Head Hunter, Quake 3, and Tokyo Extreme Racer 2 all ran at or close to 60fps.

So, to drive home my point, we had 60fps on the Dreamcast, and visuals that were extremely good, so something is very wrong when SEVENTEEN YEARS LATER, and 480 times more ram yields barely any increase in visuals, SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG! Seventeen years people, and nothing! Inefficient try-hard programmers who simply don't know what is what, they're amateurs!

The Dreamcast had visuals that surpassed the PS2 for goodness sake, can you explain that? How can that be??? And yet the PS2 could barely manage 30fps, and Dreamcast was a honeywagon of 60fps. Do you see people, see what i'm saying? The guys who coded the games for the Arcades (of which many of those games got ported to the Dreamcast by Sega themselves) those guys were 'true' geeks, computer nerds of the finest ilk, but now we have a bunch of wannabes who learn MAYA API because they don't actually have a clue how to get down and dirty into the silicon and how to use the ram efficiently.

One response in this thread dared to say that even modern CGI from the movies doesn't look 100% convincing, but i don't agree; a few years ago it was questionable depending who did it, but the Star Wars prequels looked convincing and the first prequel was released in 1999. but now, most if not all CGI as of late is utterly convincing to the point where we can't pick it 90% of the time. And again, depending who did the CGI, many times now it's impossible to tell. The only time it doesn't look real is when they're trying to depict fluid motion capture of a person, which is more a physics thing that a graphics thing.

I maintain my assertion (which i think really i have proved thanks to the legendary Dreamcast console graphics and it's FPS all that time ago) that something is definitely wrong with today's game programmers, something IS VERY WRONG!! Wake-up people, let's call a spade a spade, they're API fiddlers, NOT PROGRAMMERS! Get it right!

@xantufrog: you're not hearing me. I didn't say the AmigaCD32 had graphics that looked 'as good', i said "they looked 'nearly' as good as games we are getting today". That was a generalization, but i was making a point; however, neither of your replies have been game (no pun intended) enough to retort me about the Sega Dreamcast, so i stand by my comments, i wasn't generalizing about the Sega Dreamcast. Any Youtube video of the top ten games on that system will show you just how good the graphics were on that console, no two ways about it, thus my comments are justified, the graphics coming off the Sega Dreaqmcast were astonishingly good, well not really, they were on-par with what was expected from that spec in those days, but IF the programmers were the real deal, which evidently they were. That goes to show you that the programmers back then were true old school, the real deal, and 17 years later with umpteen times the power and take a look at this mess. 16mb/s on the Dreamcast, 8000 mb/s on the PS4, and yet we're barely getting beyond the Sega Dreamcast visuals, thus, like i said, something is very wrong with today's programmers, that's a fact! We have on the PS4 over and above the Dreamcast... 480 times the ram, stonkingly faster GPU with many more compute units, and a CPU with 8 cores. So tell me, WTF do these modern day programmers need?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Fucking tell me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No excuses, they are incompetent. 480 times the ram, that is an exponential increase in specs, so where's the corresponding increase in graphics performance??? Where is it?? We should be getting at least 5 times better visuals from 480 times the ram. Don't tell me i'm wrong, because i know i'm right!

It's sort of like many so-called chefs these days, that's what these modern programmers are like. Many Chefs today don't know shit! Many of them plate a steak with some salad and dribble some fancy sauce around the plate for presentation and call themselves a chef, you have to be kidding me! But the chefs i trained under could perform the task of a specialist baker and patissier, plus carve-up a carcass of lamb or a pig better than a butcher, plus make all the specialist requisite fine-dining sauces from scratch, and do every form of fine consomme soups, plus true A La Carte menus, these were 'real' chefs. But the chefs today order in the bread buns, order in the sauces, and they can't bake Gateau cakes, they can't make true nouveau soups or special classic dishes, they're just useless. That's my point. The programmers today are not old school programmers, and the guys who made the games for the Sega Dreamcast SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO have proven that.

How come with the meager specs in the Dreamcast (16 measly mbs of ram) there was near zero aliasing in the games on that system? Can you answer me that? I don't think you can; Well the fact is that the programmers done everything by hand the long hard way, they put-in the hard yards and coded the aliasing out of the onscreen image, but the programmers today resort to API/s to do it for them, and those API's take-up huge amounts of ram for minimal benefit by comparison with an old school programmer, and even then today's API/s still don't do a decent job. Programmers today are trained in the art of using API/s, they are not old school programmers, they don't actually have the skill required, and that's where this problem stems from.

Even with the law of diminishing returns and exponential increases in specs needed to see appreciable differences, when comparing the spec of the Sega Dreamcast with the PS4, we should be seeing 'astonishing' graphics from the PS4, like the ATI exec said, we ought to be seeing AVATAR grade CGI from the PS4, but no, too many chefs, umm programmers, that ain't the real deal, they don't have the skill to take the code down to the metal. Call a spade a spade and stop trying to controvert me just for the hell of it, we have a legitimate complaint...

I already gave specifics... as i said, in the year 1993, the "Amiga CD32 had only 2mb/s of ram and 640x400 resolution, but the games on that console looked marvelous, nearly as good as the games we are getting today. Are these programmers telling me that 22 YEARS LATER with high-grade specs (as in the PS4) and oodles of ram they are under-powered??? You have to be kidding me!!!

Go look at some of the games that were on the Sega "Dreamcast" console mid nineties 20 YEARS AGO, the programmers had barely anything to work with on that console and yet they pulled-off superb results graphically; but now, here we are all these years later with 8000mb/s of ram for programmers to work with < do i need to say that again?? And yet look what we're getting! Hardly any improvement! This clearly shows that something is wrong with today's programmers.

With the specs on the PS4 and 8 gig of dedicated GDDR5 and 18 high-end on-chip compute units we should be looking at CGI level graphics.

ATI before the release of the PS4 said we would be getting graphics on-par with Avatar from the movies LOL; too many execs talking out of their ass!

The guys doing the programming for XBOX 360 said they had their hands tied by the low-spec hardware and DIRECTX 10, they said it was extremely inefficient and cumbersome, and they only had 512 mb/s (half a measly gig) of ram to work with, so how is it that they managed to give us games which looked almost as good as the PS4 which has SIXTEEN TIMES THE RAM and a far superior graphics chip???????????

That is self-evident that something is wrong with today's programmers, they're all mid-twenties amateurs who learned how to program on MAYA, the software that does all the work for them but doesn't allow customization and tweaking down to the metal. MAYA requires no old-school knuckles to get a result, so these modern programmers haven't learnt to innovate and really get into the pipeline of the latest GPUs even with SIXTEEN TIMES MORE RAM THAN THE XBOX 360 < read that again!!!

Call a spade a spade matey, and start being honest! I don't give a frog's ass if someone is happy with what they currently see, that's not the point, i'm talking where we should be by today's standards and specs in comparison to the past, and we are not seeing what we should be, so be honest.

The OP was right, and i have the same sentiment as him. I understand exactly what he is saying. We have no wow-factor, but we should be, so where is the wow-factor?? The PS4 has been out 2 years now, so WHERE ARE THE SOUPED-UP GRAPHICS everyone was talking about?????????????????????????

The OP is correct. The PS4 graphics are a disappointment, and were not what everyone was expecting, whether you bought the PS4 for it's graphics or not. Anyone saying they didn't buy the PS4 for it's graphics is a liar. All we ever hear is the debate between XBOX ONE and PS4 and which is most powerful, so 90% of people who bought the PS4 did so because it was deemed more powerful, and yet many have questioned it now that we see basically garbage graphics, quite far behind what we were expecting, that's a fact! So cut talking shit and start admitting the truth... the PS4 graphics are definitely not what it was hyped to be, and Sony and Microsoft clearly agreed on a similar spec and price-point, which is disgusting for them to collude like that to our detriment. I'm on a top-of-the-line 55inch FHD screen with all settings perfect and by the book, and what i'm seeing mostly from PS4 is very average graphics to sub-par smudged blurry garbage and low texture low polygon shit, to the point where it looks barely better than the old XBOX 360!!

In 1993 i had a console called "Amiga CD 32" (not sure if many of you have heard of that), and it had 2mb/s of ram, and the games from that were excellent, and lovely smooth graphics; i say again, it had a measly 2mb/s of graphics, but now with 8000mb/s of ram and humongous GPU ability, and look at the pure fucking garbage coming off the PS4. No excuses, today's programmers are amateurs and incompetent, and the games on the Nintendo 64 and ancient "Amiga CD32" prove that something is very wrong with today's programmers...

So much for so-called next generation; utter bullshit!!

Enjoy your simulation! LOL I took this game back today and got my money back. What a mess! You call PCars a simulation? Check the quality of your cocaine matey, because you're imagining things. Playability, that's what we need, not this imaginary shit which is neither classic smooth arcade or sim. It's a money grab! Wake-up and stop rewarding them with your money for putting-out garbage!

@hyksiu: Sniper 2. Brilliant game!