[QUOTE="mattbbpl"] He's right, though. Even in my own circle of friends and acquaintances I know several atheists who are against gay marriage and homosexuality in general for various reasons. The most common ones I hear are, "It's against nature," and, "It sets a bad example."Likewise, I know many religious people (inlcuding Christian) who are for gay rights. Both those groups share something in common, they are both extreme minorities in this struggle. Take out the religion, and some people would still be bigoted against homosexuals for some lame reason or another, atheist or not, but homosexuals would have their full equal rights, and would have had them for some time now. This is, by and large, a religious issue. All an atheist being opposed to gay rights for that reason proves is that bigotry is not exclusive to religion. But it's the religious with the well funded and organized political machine who can actual write their beliefs into law, and are actively doing so right now.
Don't believe me? Fine, but don't expect that people should believe you ether.alexside1
Why would someone not believe me? I say "X group is opposed to gay marriage for X reason" and hey! There they are! You say "X is also opposed for another reason" then you notice where you are pointing is empty and tell me "go find them yourself".
[QUOTE="AndromedasWake"][QUOTE="turtlethetaffer"]You can go ahead and doubt it. While religion does make it easier to justify, I think people will always frind something to kill eachother over.turtlethetaffer
Sure they will, but it's a known fact that introducing religion into the equation makes all the bad stats go way up in any community, not down. More than 90% of our prison population is made up of the religious.
I'd be perfectly willing to beleive you if you had some stats or whatever to back it up.
This has been brought up so many times I thought it was already widely known. But here is a decent article on the correlation between increased religiosity and rates of crime, and othet unpleasant things. You can simply google "crime stats between religious and nonreligious" to get more results, I was able to get several other promising well researched articles as well. Studies are available that also show higher rates of divorce and abortion for the religous! (so much for marriage and life being sacred, then again the god of the bible directly or indirectly perormed many abortions himself, many more gruesome than partial birth abortions)
This is not religious issue due to the fact that there are atheist are also against it. If the reasons were entirely religious, then they would be no atheist just as there no atheist creationist. If people need to know what their reasons are they should ask them, not me, because I do not claim that I know it.alexside1
Your reference to a vague non-religious minority of people with a non-religious opposition to gay marriage proves nothing. Nor does your "go ask them yourself" (aka the "go google it yourself" stance, which is an admission of defeat in internet debate) stance.
You can go ahead and doubt it. While religion does make it easier to justify, I think people will always frind something to kill eachother over.turtlethetaffer
Sure they will, but it's a known fact that introducing religion into the equation makes all the bad stats go way up in any community, not down. More than 90% of our prison population is made up of the religious.
[QUOTE="alexside1"] How about the fact that are atheist out there who are against gay marriages? Whatever is a "good" reason or a "bad" reason is something you two talk it out. Well then, what is their logic? Just saying their is an atheist who is against it means nothing to me. Not the least of which because I do not claim to be an atheist at all. (people should be defined by what they do believe in, not by what they do not) Do they present a valid reason beyond the mind numbingly simplistic "because it's always been that way" argument that has been destroyed a thousand times already?
[QUOTE="AndromedasWake"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]I don't think religion should be held accountable for everything that happened in the past.turtlethetaffer
I don't either! I only want it to be held accountable for it's own wrongdoings, which is the murder of untold numbers of people and the stunting of the human race. We could be on Mars now, we could still have the Twin Towers! We are not on Mars, and the Twin Towers are gone. Why? Religion.
I think that those events would have happened even if religion weren't present. People will always find something to kill eachother over.
I sincerely doubt it. Their is a reason the Dark Ages happened, and why it's true full title is "The CHRISTIAN Dark Ages".
Hypothetical: My religious beliefs dictate that mixing of the races is sinful and thus isn't allowed. Thus my stance on interracial marriage is against. I constantly say, "I'm not against black people, I just don't want them marrying white people!".
Am I a bigot?
alexside1
Poor hypothetical scenario, because it assumes that this is a religious issue. What is a good non-religious reason for opposing gay marriage aside from the whole (insanely flawed and hysterically awful) logic of "because that's how it's always been"?
You are basically calling me ignorant for what I think. How is that not being offensive? Saying that people pray to the magical fairy in the sky or whatever. You clearly hate religion, and that's fine. More power to you. But, I want you to know, I feel bad for you. I have felt the presence of God before. But you wouldn't understand that.turtlethetaffer
Look, I'm not saying your ignorant for what you think. The fact of the matter is that fairies, unicorns, and the FSM are all just as credible as your god is. That's just a stone cold fact. I'm just pointing out that your invisible friend is no more important or special than any other. Because he isn't. If you want to believe in a deity that hates gay people for being exactly what he supposedly made them to be, then go right ahead and believe that way. But no one who holds that position should be allowed to present it as a valid counter argument to gay rights, because it very plainly is not. I am a former Christian of 25 years myself, I "felt the presence of god" as well. I can still replicate that "feeling" to this day when I want to. That feeling is not caused by an external source of any sort, least of all a giant invisible man in the clouds who watches us and dictates who we get to sleep with.
Log in to comment