Heels these days...

   have been booked horribly. The WWE is far too crowd pleasing to the point of having two Face vs. Face MEs at WM. Heels have lost almost all of their credibility jobbing week and week out cleanly. They are the true underdogs in the WWE not the faces.

The only show where Heels win is ECW, but on RAW and Smackdown especially in the ME, Heels have been jobbing for far too long. It's not so much as winning cleanly but so much as winning at all. Randy Orton has won one match to my knowledge so far this year.

Rated RKO has been jobbed out in handicap matches against Cena and HBK. Who is that helping out? The two who already have the crowd behind.

Edge went from WWE champ to Cena's ***** for most of 2006. I see the WWE had no choice but to give Edge the title and have Cena win it back at the Rumble. They were deadest on HHH vs. Cena. They didn't want Edge to ME Wm and thus forced him to job. Beating Foley brought him back to ME talent. Jobbing RVD wasn't nearly as bad as it was an even match until RVD came out on top.

But then Edge faced Cena. He got the crap beat out of him week after week until Summerslam where he barely won. Edge never beat really beat Cena in any way or form. He never bloodied him and left him in the ring while the show ended. Cena's theme became RAW's ending theme. They faced in the TLC where Edge lost the title. The odds stacked against Cena meant he was going to win. Edge was in the main event but he lost all the time.

When Rated RKO faced DX, they should have won cleanly Soear then RKO and yet HHH kicked out. The shenanigans at the end to have Rated RKO win was over the top

The only credible heel has been jobbed out in recent months. I am talking about Mr. Kennedy. He has been jobbed out to Tista, Taker, and Lashley. He is supposed to be the No. 1 contender to any title at the moment and yet he can't win a match.

The WWE has failed to build up its heels and that is why buy rates are down. Am I going to buy a show where I know the title isn't going to change hands? Maybe but if its the 8th PPV in a row then no.

Good vs. Evil works better when the two looks even going not one side being dominated

...Kennedy

This is where _muta's old rant on genuinity within this business comes into play..

Heels nowadays, moreover in the WWE are very hard to pull off. That's why you should try and purosely draw heat for that heel. With the element of kayfabe being physically broken in half by Mr.McMahon at the turn of the millenium, it is now more obvious than ever for people to work out the magician's code so to speak.

What I'm saying is, heels are being taken for real because of the lack or crowd hate behind them. For some heels it does work like Khali, Henry and Umaga because of the real heat they have for them for their genuine lack of abilities.

One hand, i agree with you. Heels aren't getting over. That's simply due to the lack of any real talent on the roster. On the other hand, you have to remember that the heels job is to ultimately get the babyface over. It really depends on what kind of heel we're talking about here in order for the booking to make sense. If we're talking about an HBK, CM Punk, or Larry Sweeney type heel, then jobbing him out all the time or having him win by screwjobs/questionable tactics WOULD make sense. This kind of heel isn't necessarily supposed to be taken seriously. He's just supposed to get as much heat as possible.

When you have a Brock Lesnar or Vader type heel, these guys MUST be taken seriously. They should get heat (a manager usually takes care of that), but it's a little different. The babyface who should already be over by now in this kind of scenario gets even more over by overcoming the odds and taking the heel down. (i.e. Eddie Guerrero/Brock Lesnar, Sting/Vader, etc.)

I always thought Heels gained more heat from winning cleanly such as HHH vs. Booker T at WMXIX. As a mark, I hated Heels who won cleanly, those who won through cheating I never got angry about it.

I always thought Heels gained more heat from winning cleanly such as HHH vs. Booker T at WMXIX. As a mark, I hated Heels who won cleanly, those who won through cheating I never got angry about it.

Kotenks

Well, in that particular scenario, alot of that had to do with the way the feud was booked, not just the fact that the heel won cleanly. Yeah, it got HHH heat, but more legitimate "same old, same old, big surprise, what else is on" heat than the "Damn, who's gonna take this guy down?!" heat. There was no reason for people to feel the latter, since there were no credible babyfaces. If the WWE had actually tried building up a pool of legitimate babyfaces (Booker at that point was the most over babyface on RAW, so not giving him the belt was ridiculous) then the loss wouldn't have been as bad.

It went against the formula of the business - the feud ultimately put the heel over instead of a babyface FOR NO REAL REASON, which is why 2003 ended up being such a crappy year. HHH was on top with no real counterpoint to his title reign (and no, Goldberg didn't count).

And you're right, heels can gain heat by winning cleanly. But when you look at heels like HHH and Ric Flair, it's not so much the fact that they win that makes someone hate them, but rather the fact that they win by the skin of their teeth, try to cheat, etc. A perfect example would be the classic Cactus Jack/HHH street fight where HHH had his ass handed to him for 80% of the match, only to come out on top.

The only arguement I want to make is that Orton is most likely being jobbed out for his own foolishness that makes the WWE look bad (ie., constantly failing drug tests, destroying hotel rooms, etc.).

However, it does seem like ECW is the only brand that has it right with the heels...but sadly I think that's because Vince hates everything associated with the old ECW, therefore the Originals get jobbed out more often than not.

The only arguement I want to make is that Orton is most likely being jobbed out for his own foolishness that makes the WWE look bad (ie., constantly failing drug tests, destroying hotel rooms, etc.).

 

However, it does seem like ECW is the only brand that has it right with the heels...but sadly I think that's because Vince hates everything associated with the old ECW, therefore the Originals get jobbed out more often than not.

MJ_at_the_Stop

Which heels are these...the New Breed? Vince? Explain, I don't watch ECW as often, but what are the other "good" heels? Punk is no longer a "heel."