FPS Zelda?

i dont think its just me but i have never seen guns in zelda. but anyways a first person zelda could be quite good could be a complete disaster 

he meant a first person...sworder

thrubeingcool13

Nice one

Well the jury's still out on this one, I suppose. I was expecting more apprehension from most people at the thought of this. Sorry if i don't have my lingo down; what does one call a game in first person perspective that doesn't use guns? What genre do games like Wizardry and Oblivion fit into? I have absolutely no idea. As far as the concept of a first person perpective Zelda game, Nintendo has done some things in the past that sounded stupid in theory but turned out to be pretty fun, (like that stylus controlled Phantom Hourglass game), so maybe there's some way they could make this idea work, but to mean it seems like doing this would take away alot from the spirit of the game.ShootTheCore

FPA: First Person Adventure

I think a FPA game would be an interesting twist to the series. I've been saying that going first person and making it have a lot in common with Oblivion would be a good idea. Something refreshing to the series. The traditional Zelda formula won't last much longer. I was feeling the formula getting old in Twilight Princess. I think it would be a wise idea to switch it up before it dies completly.

I'm not sure I like the idea.

What the series need right now is more diversity, people are getting tired of doing the same old thing, finding/using the same items over and over. The camera angle has never been much of a problem, I don't see what benefits changing it would bring, not to mention that it will make the Zelda games' key gameplay elements (Platforming, fighting and puzzle-solving) a lot harder.

I I've been saying that going first person and making it have a lot in common with Oblivion would be a good idea. Something refreshing to the series. The traditional Zelda formula won't last much longer. 

metroid_dragon

I have to disagree. Whenever game designers start thinking the core mechanics of a series are getting stale it seems that they end up botching it. Just look at FF XII, Bomberman Act Zero, Phantasy Star Universe, Megaman X7 and Dawn of Mana. Metroid was an exception, but that's probably because no fully 3d Metroid had been made prior to the GC game, whereas Zelda already had two 3d titles on the 64. Let the Oblivion franchise make games "that have a lot in common with Oblivion". I do agree with you that parts of TP felt stale, but I think that was partially due to the outcries of fans for Nintendo to make a new Zelda game that more resembled OoT then MM and WW did, and it may have ended up resembling OoT a bit too much; this is not to say that it wasn't an amazing game, it was; however, unlike TP, I don't think MM and WW felt stale at all. MM and WW both forced the player to look at world exploration in a new way and introduced two worlds very different from the typical Hyrule, they both introduced a lot of new inventory and gadgets as well. So it's not the game mechanics that need to be changed, I think, but just the overall content of the game; and I'm not talking about a huge overhaul here, just mixing it up a little bit; like if they rehashed a few less boss' and enemies, and introduced some more new inventory and some new type of explorative device (like the time system in MM or the boat in WW) that would be plenty to keep the game experience from feeling stale.

I have to disagree. Whenever game designers start thinking the core mechanics of a series are getting stale it seems that they end up botching it. Just look at FF XII, Bomberman Act Zero, Phantasy Star Universe, Megaman X7 and Dawn of Mana. Metroid was an exception, but that's probably because no fully 3d Metroid had been made prior to the GC game, whereas Zelda already had two 3d titles on the 64.ShootTheCore

And yet so many titles have made succesful transfers of the core game mechanics.

The success depends on the team working on the game and what they are capable of. Metroid made a great Transfer, Fallout made a great transfer, Zelda has already done 1 great transfer. As for games that didn't just transfer from 2d to 3d: The new Prince of Persia is very different from the old ones, it's doing well. Advance Wars: Days of Ruin changed up the formula a decent amount, it did good. Grand Theft Auto did an amazing transfer.

However, for the best example, you need to look no further than the Final Fantasy series. With only a few exception, nearly every game with Final Fantasy in the title has had significantly different core gameplay mechanics than every preceding game in the series. Yet it's still universally considered to be one of the greatest series of games ever made.

Changing the formula of a series does not guarantee failure. Fanbases being afraid of changes, or even worse the teams that make the game being afraid of change, are what make a game fail. Change is not bad.

MM and WW both forced the player to look at world exploration in a new way and introduced two worlds very different from the typical Hyrule, they both introduced a lot of new inventory and gadgets as well. So it's not the game mechanics that need to be changed, I think, but just the overall content of the game; and I'm not talking about a huge overhaul here, just mixing it up a little bit; like if they rehashed a few less boss' and enemies, and introduced some more new inventory and some new type of explorative device (like the time system in MM or the boat in WW) that would be plenty to keep the game experience from feeling stale.ShootTheCore

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker did not feel stale because MM was only the second 3d Zelda, and WW was only the third. Wind Waker did still feel original, but a major contributor was that it threw a small twist on the core gameplay mechanics; Sailing. This completely changed the way you navigated the overworld, and was a decent change that refreshed the series. TP went back to the old mechanics, introducing nothing new except wolf form, which wasn't even that well done. Combat was rather unsatisfying in wolf form.

No, I don't see any way for them to continue the same formula and not make it seem like I've done all this before.

Perhaps changing the setting, Maybe a futuristic Zelda title? You could keep all the combat, perspectives, adventuring, interacting and core mechanics the same, while still refreshing the series.

EDIT: While reading the Wiki article, I also came accross this which was cited.

Hmm, maybe we have different defintion on core mechanics.

However, for the best example, you need to look no further than the Final Fantasy series. With only a few exception, nearly every game with Final Fantasy in the title has had significantly different core gameplay mechanics than every preceding game in the series. Yet it's still universally considered to be one of the greatest series of games ever made.

metroid_dragon

I see the Final Fantasy series as a success as well, at least up until recently.  But I view their success as a triumph of not changing core mechanics.  Sure, they added new bells and whistles (the job system in FFIII, Materia in FF VII) but the series has stayed true to its core game play mechanics, large world explorations, random encounters, and a turn-based fight system.  I think that when they began to deviate from this system, with FFXI and FFXII, the series started to get bad.  

I can't really comment on Fallout and GTA; I haven't played the new Fallout yet and I always hated GTA; but I agree with you on PoP.  However the re-inventing of that series may have been more possible because the original games did not draw such a committed and diehard fanbase as games like Final Fantasy and Zelda did.  I mean the old DOS PoP games are fun, but let's face it, they, certainly, don't have the depth of games like FF and LoZ.  However, the second generation of PoP games did draw an extremely diehard fanbase, to which I am, admittedly, part of, and when Ubisoft changed up the core mechanics of that series when it made the leap to PS3/Xbox 360 then many fans of the PS2/Xbox games, me included, were outraged.

Perhaps changing the setting, Maybe a futuristic Zelda title? You could keep all the combat, perspectives, adventuring, interacting and core mechanics the same, while still refreshing the series.

metroid_dragon

This seems like a decent idea though.  Maybe not a futuristic setting, but part of the reason why MM and WW didn't feel stale was, indeed, because they had such a different setting then previous games.  So changing the setting could certainly help things.

As for the Miyamoto's article, I read that one as well.  I'll see if I can find the one where he discusses FPS (or is it FPA?) possibilities.  I don't know what that guy is doing anymore, Nintendo is all over the map.  I've honestly lost a lot of respect for them, with the over emphasis on the Wii-mote and the excessive amount of time and money their spending on those Wii titles (WiiSports, WiiMusic) and their pattern of dumbing down game series to attract younger audiences (am I the only one who thought Mario Galaxy way to easy?).  Also the new SuperSmash came as a huge blow to me.  I didn't know how they could mess that up, but that game just felt like such an abortion.  I remember seeing an article with Igrashi, Castlevania creator, where he excessively criticized Nintendo and the Wii system, and discussed what a pain it was working with them to make Judgement.  Hopefully Nintendo will come to its senses soon.

Well the jury's still out on this one, I suppose. I was expecting more apprehension from most people at the thought of this. Sorry if i don't have my lingo down; what does one call a game in first person perspective that doesn't use guns? What genre do games like Wizardry and Oblivion fit into? I have absolutely no idea. As far as the concept of a first person perpective Zelda game, Nintendo has done some things in the past that sounded stupid in theory but turned out to be pretty fun, (like that stylus controlled Phantom Hourglass game), so maybe there's some way they could make this idea work, but to me it seems like doing this would take away alot from the spirit of the game.ShootTheCore

]actually i hated using the stylus in it , among a lot of other people..Al_Elric

I was opposed to the idea at first, but upon playing it I found that it didn't take away that much from the game.  The control's for that game were pretty basic, they were almost exactly like the controls for the classic Zelda games on the nes and snes and all the other handheld zelda games; so that's why the stylus control was capable of working, if they tried to introduce any new mechanics it might have been more of a mess.  I agree that the stylus concept was completely unnecessary, Nintendo just felt they needed to make use of their new gadget, I guess; but the issues I had with that game had nothing to do with the stylus; it was just way too short and too easy, and not enough sidequests; but it was still playable, it just could have been a lot better.

Okay, so this isn't Nintendo's actual test of a FP zelda engine; this is just someone's hack of TP; but it may give us some idea of what an FP Zelda game would looke like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dEJPl5ULS4 

Though I think all they really did was make Link invisible. 

Okay, so this isn't Nintendo's actual test of a FP zelda engine; this is just someone's hack of TP; but it may give us some idea of what an FP Zelda game would looke like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dEJPl5ULS4 

 

Though I think all they really did was make Link invisible. 

ShootTheCore

I think that with a lot of polish and if they built the game around the concept it would work just fine. There was nothing in that video that was too terrible (except for the floating wolf collecting pumpkins the size of buildings)

If they did that, then Elder Scrolls fans would call Zelda a ripoff of Elder Scrolls for the First Person gameplay.nintendoboy16

They can hardly patent a visual perspective. I'm surprised it hasn't been ripped off more. First Person Shooter is a massive genre, one of the biggest, so why does 1 series have a monopoly over First Person Adventure?

Yeah, games like Oblivion have been around since the days of DOS.  Anyone remember 'Heretic'? 

It's weird that it's just now catching on as a popular genre for major consoles, those games have been popular on the PC for awhile.  Speaking of which they released that PC game 'Wizardry' for the PS2; has anyone played it?  Is it worth getting?

nope never heard of it :) sorry but sure it might bring people to being fans of zedla but think of how many wouldnt like it and would stop being fansbrick_player

Yeah, I agree. Honestly, if Nintendo went through with this whole first person Zelda thing I would probably just give up on them and like never buy another Nintendo game again...well, unless they made a new Kirby game, I'd get that...unless it was like an FPA Kirby, that would suck, and that idea is just stupid enough for Nintendo to actually try it.

true bout the wepons they do need to make new ones like they kinda in TP with the ball and chain , doiom rod , and i think that was it but they need to keep the bow i love the bow but also change up the land and chartersbrick_player

Yes new weapons is a must! Both TP and WW had some awesome new weapons, but I wish they had more. They don't have to scrape all the old weapons, I mean, I'd miss bows, bombs, and bomerangs, but they need to try to have a larger catalogue of new items in the next games.

So what's everyones favorite new weapons from TP and WW? Mine were the Deku Leaf from WW and the Double Clawshot from TP. I wish they had explored more possibilities with the double clawshot though, some like swinging Spiderman type segment would have been cool or some Shadow of the Colosus type boss that can only be scaled with the double clawshot, or something like that.

[QUOTE="brick_player"]true bout the wepons they do need to make new ones like they kinda in TP with the ball and chain , doiom rod , and i think that was it but they need to keep the bow i love the bow but also change up the land and chartersShootTheCore

Yes new weapons is a must! Both TP and WW had some awesome new weapons, but I wish they had more. They don't have to scrape all the old weapons, I mean, I'd miss bows, bombs, and bomerangs, but they need to try to have a larger catalogue of new items in the next games.

So what's everyones favorite new weapons from TP and WW? Mine were the Deku Leaf from WW and the Double Clawshot from TP. I wish they had explored more possibilities with the double clawshot though, some like swinging Spiderman type segment would have been cool or some Shadow of the Colosus type boss that can only be scaled with the double clawshot, or something like that.

I concur.

Mixing some spiderman \ Prince of Persia like motion into the clawshots would have been awesome.

the double clawshots were used in a spider man way during the boss fight. you had to swing from plant to plant avoiding the dragon's fire breath.thrubeingcool13

And that was a great boss fight. The series needs more boss' like that. I think if we're discussing what needs to be changed about the series the boss' are the best place to start. The Zelda series might have the most recycled boss fight of any other single continous series. I don't even want to think about the number of games were you have to shoot the center of a pair of floating hands or throw a bomb into some monsters mouth. That dragon fight was memorable and fun because it was something completely new. The Zelda franchise needs more bosses like that. I think where the boss designs suffer the most is that there is very little physical interactions between Link and the boss. You stand from afar, avoid attacks and then hit them with some ranged weapon. Whereas with the Dragon boss in the Sky temple you could actually grab onto him and whack away at him, similair to bosses in Shadow of the Colosus, except a little less intricate.

There were two bosses in MC that were really good too. There was the one were you have to shrink yourself down and actually go into the boss and lay a bomb, and the other was the one where you're one some flying creature and you have to use the four sword to split link up and hit certain spots on his back simultaneously, then jump off, onto another flying creature and do the same. Does anyone remember these? I thought these were really cool boss battles as well, and would like to see something like this in the 3d Zelda games.

As far as the double clawshot is concerned. You can grapple to multiple targets with it, like in the dragon boss fight, but they didn't take it as far as the could have. Essentially all that the double clawshot really did was make it possible to grapple to another clawshot spot while you were already hanging from one. You couldn't even swing on the line like you could in WW. When I got the item I thought Link was going to be able to swing, and like grapple again while swinging and grapple mid jump or something, you know, like in Spiderman, but the double clawshot proved to be somewhat stiff, possibly even stiffer then in the previous game WW, and all it really offered was a way to get to certain spots in the game that you couldn't get to before; nothing new, really.

I think they could manage putting more advanced grappling mechanics in the game without it seeming too futuristic. I mean some of Links inventory already seem kind of futuristic, like the spinner thingy in TP.ShootTheCore

Agreed, just look at the Bombchu.

That's modern technology right there. I'm pretty sure Hyrule actually has ICBMs hidden somewhere.

[QUOTE="metroid_dragon"]

[QUOTE="ShootTheCore"]I think they could manage putting more advanced grappling mechanics in the game without it seeming too futuristic. I mean some of Links inventory already seem kind of futuristic, like the spinner thingy in TP.thrubeingcool13

Agreed, just look at the Bombchu.

That's modern technology right there. I'm pretty sure Hyrule actually has ICBMs hidden somewhere.

whats an ICBM?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_ballistic_missile

try that 

[QUOTE="metroid_dragon"]

[QUOTE="ShootTheCore"]I think they could manage putting more advanced grappling mechanics in the game without it seeming too futuristic. I mean some of Links inventory already seem kind of futuristic, like the spinner thingy in TP.thrubeingcool13

Agreed, just look at the Bombchu.

That's modern technology right there. I'm pretty sure Hyrule actually has ICBMs hidden somewhere.

whats an ICBM?

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=ICBM

[QUOTE="thrubeingcool13"][QUOTE="metroid_dragon"]

[QUOTE="ShootTheCore"]I think they could manage putting more advanced grappling mechanics in the game without it seeming too futuristic. I mean some of Links inventory already seem kind of futuristic, like the spinner thingy in TP.metroid_dragon

Agreed, just look at the Bombchu.

That's modern technology right there. I'm pretty sure Hyrule actually has ICBMs hidden somewhere.

whats an ICBM?

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=ICBM

lol, I've never seen this before; it's hilarious.