Why no Adolph Hitl*r in Civilization games ?

I love the civilization games and am hooked to Civilization IV for PC but I am just wondering why they don't put Hitler ? could it be because it's very controversial or they don't want to get sued.

even though I don't aprove of Hitlers acts it would be intriguing to build a german civilization with him in charge or to go to war against Hitler and the nazis and Germany.

I really don't think there would be that many people wanting to build concentration camps and torture and kill innocent Jewish people. If that would be your idea of "intriguing", you might be a sick, sick person.jalexbrown

I am not talking about concentration camps but history shows he was alive I am just saying to give the option to play him or play against him.

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]I really don't think there would be that many people wanting to build concentration camps and torture and kill innocent Jewish people. If that would be your idea of "intriguing", you might be a sick, sick person.drakecool1

I am not talking about concentration camps but history shows he was alive I am just saying to give the option to play him or play against him.

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]I really don't think there would be that many people wanting to build concentration camps and torture and kill innocent Jewish people. If that would be your idea of "intriguing", you might be a sick, sick person.drakecool1

I am not talking about concentration camps but history shows he was alive I am just saying to give the option to play him or play against him.

and another thing it's not like Salahadin, Napolean and leader of China were all saints themselves.

I can see where you're coming from here. While an absolutely horrible person, he still was an important historical figure.

Plus, they already let you play as Stalin and he was just as bad as Hitler.

Personally I wouldn't find millions upon millions of men, women, children experimented on, tortured, humiliated, brutalised and slaughtered as being intriguing.

Controversy. You said it yourself.

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]I really don't think there would be that many people wanting to build concentration camps and torture and kill innocent Jewish people. If that would be your idea of "intriguing", you might be a sick, sick person.jalexbrown

I am not talking about concentration camps but history shows he was alive I am just saying to give the option to play him or play against him.

I know and I am not condoning but most the dictators like Napolean and Saladin also killed many innocent people Hitler was a monster no doubt but so were many leaders that were put in the games.

Though yeah, the controversy wouldn't be worth it.

Personally I wouldn't find millions upon millions of men, women, children experimented on, tortured, humiliated, brutalised and slaughtered as being intriguing.

Vesica_Prime

where did I say that was intriguing im talking about playing him or against him in the game it's not like they will put those stuff you mentioned in the game .

so stalin and saladin are little angels who never hurt a fly ?

I can see where you're coming from here. While an absolutely horrible person, he still was an important historical figure.

Plus, they already let you play as Stalin and he was just as bad as Hitler.

waiter2

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler ? Way to trivialize the Holocaust and minimize the death of millions of people at the hands of Hitler.

[QUOTE="waiter2"]

I can see where you're coming from here. While an absolutely horrible person, he still was an important historical figure.

Plus, they already let you play as Stalin and he was just as bad as Hitler.

jalexbrown

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler ? Way to trivialize the Holocaust and minimize the death of millions of people at the hands of Hitler.

Do you know how many innocent Russians Stalin killed he was a brutal dictator himself.

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]

[QUOTE="waiter2"]

I can see where you're coming from here. While an absolutely horrible person, he still was an important historical figure.

Plus, they already let you play as Stalin and he was just as bad as Hitler.

drakecool1

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler ? Way to trivialize the Holocaust and minimize the death of millions of people at the hands of Hitler.

Do you know how many innocent Russians Stalin killed he was a brutal dictator himself.

I get your point. But basically, Hitler wasnt included because his acts are more widely knowned and would attract a hell of alot more controversy than Stalin.

Hitler was a great leader, but not a great objectives.LOXO7

truth be told if Hitler wasn't a racist he would have been known today as one of the most powerful leaders in history he had great charisma what he wanted was to remove the occupying russians and stop the treaty of versai which he didn't feel the germans should have paid after they lost the first war hishatred was his downfall.

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]

[QUOTE="waiter2"]

I can see where you're coming from here. While an absolutely horrible person, he still was an important historical figure.

Plus, they already let you play as Stalin and he was just as bad as Hitler.

drakecool1

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler ? Way to trivialize the Holocaust and minimize the death of millions of people at the hands of Hitler.

Do you know how many innocent Russians Stalin killed he was a brutal dictator himself.

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler ? Way to trivialize the Holocaust and minimize the death of millions of people at the hands of Hitler.

jalexbrown

When was I trivializing? Stalin killed milllions of Russians and Polish through the Gulags and Secret Police.

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler ? Way to trivialize the Holocaust and minimize the death of millions of people at the hands of Hitler.

jalexbrown

Do you know how many innocent Russians Stalin killed he was a brutal dictator himself.

look I am not trying to make anyone more moral I am just saying if they put a guy like Stalin and Saladin who killed millions of innocent people why not Hitler I am not minimising Hitlers killings I am just syaing he was a historical figure that cannot be ignored or pretend that he never existed.

You're actually going to try to play a numbers game to somehow try to walk away making Hitler look more moral than Stalin? The actual numbers are VERY close, perhaps less than a million deaths apart.jalexbrown

Nobody is saying one is worse than the other. They are equally evil people.

He in only is only questioning why one can be in a game and not the other.

I really don't think there would be that many people wanting to build concentration camps and torture and kill innocent Jewish people. If that would be your idea of "intriguing", you might be a sick, sick person.jalexbrown

mao zedong? genghis khan? stalin? at what point do you tip the scales where your atrocities become significant enough to be discluded from a video game roster? or is it a question of public knowledge of what youve done?

nm, this thread clearly demonstrates the latter is it

[QUOTE="waiter2"]

I can see where you're coming from here. While an absolutely horrible person, he still was an important historical figure.

Plus, they already let you play as Stalin and he was just as bad as Hitler.

jalexbrown

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler ? Way to trivialize the Holocaust and minimize the death of millions of people at the hands of Hitler.

Learn your history. Joseph Stalin initiated the great purge, killing roughly 1.2 million political opponents. Roughly 14 million of his own people starved to death while he refused to respond to their needs. Roughly nine and a half million were imprisoned or sent to concentration camps, which is extremely close to the number the Nazi's managed to hit. Some of the more extreme estimates put his kill count near 30 million, far more than the Nazi genocide.

Stalin was a madman. Stalin was easily as evil as hitler was. The circumstances surrounding the two were, however, very different. For starters, the USSR was essentially an invincible military force. Far more than Nazi germany could ever claim. The only reason you can't play as hitler in the Civ games is the huge taboo upon them, and the fact that the Nazis lost WWII and became the 20th century face of "the bad guy".

Stalin also intentiously started famines, did not come to aid the Poles in the Warsaw uprising to get rid of as many anti communist Poles as possible,etc. He was just as bad as Hitler.

Edit: The post above is a better one about this argument than mine. Read that instead,

What do you think would have been Hitlers characteristics if he was included in Civ? I would guess Agressive/Organized and Charismatic.

There was also made a really good WWII mod for Civ IV: Beyond the sword, but Hitler was not in that one either, he was replaced by Vise Chancellor Von Papen.

Stalin also intentiously started famines, did not come to aid the Poles in the Warsaw uprising to get rid of as manyanti communist Poles as possible,etc. He was just as bad as Hitler.

Edit: The post above is a better one about this argument than mine. Read that instead,

What do you think would have been Hitlers characteristics if he was included in Civ. I would guess Agressive/Organized and Charismatic.

There was also made a really good WWII mod for Civ IV: Beyond the sword, but Hitler was not in that one either, he was replaced by Vise Chancellor Von Papen.

Backbonesalsa

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"]

[QUOTE="waiter2"]

I can see where you're coming from here. While an absolutely horrible person, he still was an important historical figure.

Plus, they already let you play as Stalin and he was just as bad as Hitler.

semianonymous

Stalin was just as bad as Hitler ? Way to trivialize the Holocaust and minimize the death of millions of people at the hands of Hitler.

Learn your history. Joseph Stalin initiated the great purge, killing roughly 1.2 million political opponents. Roughly 14 million of his own people starved to death while he refused to respond to their needs. Roughly nine and a half million were imprisoned or sent to concentration camps, which is extremely close to the number the Nazi's managed to hit. Some of the more extreme estimates put his kill count near 30 million, far more than the Nazi genocide.

Stalin was a madman. Stalin was easily as evil as hitler was. The circumstances surrounding the two were, however, very different. For starters, the USSR was essentially an invincible military force. Far more than Nazi germany could ever claim. The only reason you can't play as hitler in the Civ games is the huge taboo upon them, and the fact that the Nazis lost WWII and became the 20th century face of "the bad guy".

Germany has some laws about representing Nazis in media and for the most part it isn't allowed. PC gaming is HUGE in Germany, therefore, do the math.

It the same reason the swastika flags disappeared from Day of Defeat when it when from beta to retail. It's the same reason most games use the German 'Iron Cross' instead of the swastika.

See here for more information:

"In the official lists, these three sections are always bundled, so that action games where the object is to kill Nazis (and thus contain swastika flags and/or any depiction of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler) are listed alongside racist propaganda pieces."

the controversy surrounding such a decision would be enormous.Im sure there are mods that fit the bill i know they exist for Civ3.

Its a matter of controversy he did do some good like the autobahn and the idea of the peoples car but was dragged down by his fanatical extremism..if he wasnt so extremist and hell bent on the ayrian race thing then he would be considered a good leader not a faschist dictator cause some of the most modern advancements came from his rule like for example the motorway.

Not in any way do i support Nazism but a lot of people do forget things before the war even tho there was krystal nacht.Oh yeah my specialised subject when i did history at school was the interwar period of germany so i know a fair bit bout it.Best laugh is his hatred for jewish people stems from something extremely trivial.If he didnt hold that said grudge who knows.

But anyway this decision would be met with anger and most likely a ban in Germany due to the depiction of Nazi signs/emblems etc which im sure is a federal offense unless its for educational purposes which i can bet civ is not :P

Civilization has a tendency to only list great rulers.

Incidentally...

GREATEST LEADERS OF GERMANY:

Otto von Bismarck

Frederick II

Oh, wow, both of those are in the game.

WORST LEADERS OF GERMANY:

Wilhelm II

Adolf Hitler

Wow, look at that, neither of those are in the game.

silly fear of controversy.

I mean..Stalin is in Civ games and he was at least as evil as Hitler if not actually worse

Civilization has a tendency to only list great rulers.

Incidentally...

GREATEST LEADERS OF GERMANY:

Otto von Bismarck

Frederick II

Oh, wow, both of those are in the game.

WORST LEADERS OF GERMANY:

Wilhelm II

Adolf Hitler

Wow, look at that, neither of those are in the game.

Brownesque

It's really a double standard. While I don't really care either way if he was in there or not, personally wouldn't play with him, but other emperors/leaders in the Civ games have done some pretty brutal acts against civilians such as Stalin who killed how many of his own citizens? Way more than Nazi Germany ever did. KukicAdo

Civilization has a tendency to only list great rulers.

Incidentally...

GREATEST LEADERS OF GERMANY:

Otto von Bismarck

Frederick II

Oh, wow, both of those are in the game.

WORST LEADERS OF GERMANY:

Wilhelm II

Adolf Hitler

Wow, look at that, neither of those are in the game.

Brownesque

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]

Civilization has a tendency to only list great rulers.

Incidentally...

GREATEST LEADERS OF GERMANY:

Otto von Bismarck

Frederick II

Oh, wow, both of those are in the game.

WORST LEADERS OF GERMANY:

Wilhelm II

Adolf Hitler

Wow, look at that, neither of those are in the game.

AdrianWerner

Hitler brought all of Europe nearly to ruin. Hitler was a brilliant and shrewd diplomat, but a horrible politician. He could have stalemated all the world and taken what he wanted, but instead he chose the option of greed and brought some of the most fantastic odds on a crippled and beleagured nation.

Germany was great before Wilhelm and Hitler immediately after the unification around Prussia, which was ENTIRELY the work of Frederick II and Otto von Bismarck. Germany was easily a top candidate for the most powerful nation in the world during World War 1. But any imbecile could see that what you do in that situation is not breaking non-aggression pacts and engaging in wars of aggression with multiple great powers on two fronts simultaneously. Hitler was a fantastically stupid ruler, and let's not get into his domestic policy.

He's simply not in Civilization IV because he brought a shadow over the entire world in every way and destroyed Germany more thoroughly than perhaps any man conceivably could have. You can count his blunders and contrive "what if" scenarios for every one of them, and the better options are always obvious.

silly fear of controversy.

I mean..Stalin is in Civ games and he was at least as evil as Hitler if not actually worse

AdrianWerner

He's simply not in Civilization IV because he brought a shadow over the entire world in every way and destroyed Germany more thoroughly than perhaps any man conceivably could have. You can count his blunders and contrive "what if" scenarios for every one of them, and the better options are always obvious.

Brownesque

I can see where you're coming from here. While an absolutely horrible person, he still was an important historical figure.

Plus, they already let you play as Stalin and he was just as bad as Hitler.

waiter2

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]Hitler was a great leader, but not a great objectives.drakecool1

truth be told if Hitler wasn't a racist he would have been known today as one of the most powerful leaders in history he had great charisma what he wanted was to remove the occupying russians and stop the treaty of versai which he didn't feel the germans should have paid after they lost the first war hishatred was his downfall.

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]

He's simply not in Civilization IV because he brought a shadow over the entire world in every way and destroyed Germany more thoroughly than perhaps any man conceivably could have. You can count his blunders and contrive "what if" scenarios for every one of them, and the better options are always obvious.

AdrianWerner

I don't wan't to start anything but Hitler is overrated. The only reason Hitler gets so much hate is because he killed Jews, it doesn't matter how many, noone would have cared had they been buddhist, muslim or christian. The sole reason why we(US) have troops in the M.E. is because of Israel not to fight terrorism;seriously WTF did Irap have to do with 9/11?Rockman999

a

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]

He's simply not in Civilization IV because he brought a shadow over the entire world in every way and destroyed Germany more thoroughly than perhaps any man conceivably could have. You can count his blunders and contrive "what if" scenarios for every one of them, and the better options are always obvious.

Brownesque

[QUOTE="Rockman999"]I don't wan't to start anything but Hitler is overrated. The only reason Hitler gets so much hate is because he killed Jews, it doesn't matter how many, noone would have cared had they been buddhist, muslim or christian. The sole reason why we(US) have troops in the M.E. is because of Israel not to fight terrorism;seriously WTF did Irap have to do with 9/11?jalexbrown

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="Rockman999"]I don't wan't to start anything but Hitler is overrated. The only reason Hitler gets so much hate is because he killed Jews, it doesn't matter how many, noone would have cared had they been buddhist, muslim or christian. The sole reason why we(US) have troops in the M.E. is because of Israel not to fight terrorism;seriously WTF did Irap have to do with 9/11?AdrianWerner