Why Japan doesn't have a bright future in video games

Which has been debunked on numerous websites.

2. The problem is the Japanese language is used in only one country. The English language covers a wide network of many countries. Now you're using the term "Asian." You have to include Korean, Chinese, and other Asian languages to match the English-speaking world? I'm talking about Japanese here. Compared to the English-speaking population of the world, the Japanese-speaking population is so small. Chinese, Spanish, and other languages have wider networks which is why knowing the Japanese language alone makes you insular instead of knowing English alone because English is spoken and used in a lot of countries and organizations. Get it?

3.. I've heard of doujin games. I've been to TGS but aside from that I haven't gone to manga and anime-related events. I'm not crazy about anime you see. Puzzle & Dragons isn't really indie. I think I should have made it clear that I was talking about indie games on consoles and PCs.

4. I think you should read the article Kojima: Japanese games behind in "technology, gameplay and world view"

TigerSuperman:

Link?

lordlors:

2. So you basically mean language barrier? That's not exactly the same thing as insular.

3. Most Japanese developers have abandoned consoles (and PC) in favour of handhelds and mobiles, so of course most of their indie developers would focus on the latter rather than the former.

4. That article is from March 2012, three years ago. Much has changed since then. Back then, they didn't have cutting-edge engines like they do now, with Mizuchi, Luminous Studio, Fox Engine, etc. In the last three years, Japanese tech has more-or-less caught up with the West.

Ummm if you only know the Japanese language, how can you be exposed to anything from outside that's not translated to Japanese? How can you understand culture outside of Japan if you only know Japanese? You're already insular in that nature. Knowing English alone gives you the ability to understand the cultures of Ireland, Scotland, England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the Philippines, etc.

Japanese indies will stay in Japan so it really doesn't contribute anything to the video game industry as a whole.

Precisely what I'm saying. Japan will always play the catch up game. Because latest technologies like DX, Nvidia video cards, etc. are from the West.

1. Google Translate? While it's not known for accuracy, it has at least broken down a lot of language barriers by letting you instantly translate anything on the net. Either way, language barriers don't necessarily lead to insularity. Just from browsing the Japanese movie & music charts, you could see a lot of foreign stuff there, whereas the American movie & music charts are usually dominated by just American (and sometimes British) stuff.

2. Not sure what this has to do with your previous point?

3. Right now, it's the other way around, since the latest in real-time graphics tech is Silicon Studio's Mizuchi engine from Japan.

You can understand foreign culture by using google translate? lol Now you're just embarrassing yourself. If a Japanese is interested in foreign culture, he/she must learn a language aside from Japanese. An American doesn't need to learn a new language if he/she wants to learn British, Canadian, Filipino, etc. cultures because they are all part of a big network that is the English-speaking world. It seems you remain quiet on my notion that the English language is more important, more influential, and more relevant than the Japanese language. I don't understand why you bring up the top charts. You mean to generalize a population base on the top charts? lol Count all books, music, movies, video games, etc. that are in English and compare it to those that are in Japanese. And you will also see that most of those Japanese stuff come from only one country, Japan. Those English-language books, music, movies, video games, etc. come from different countries, backgrounds, etc. You have no idea how much the Philippines churn out English novels and music. Who cares if not all of them are in the top charts? If they aren't on the charts does that mean they don't exist?

You keep talking about this awesome game engine and yet it has no power to dethrone UE and Unity. Give me some big games and indie games that will use this engine. This notion that this game engine is superior isn't really important because another will come out and it becomes a cycle. Technologies and techniques in making game engines still come from the West through DX and OpenGL. AMD and NVIDIA are American companies. Autodesk and Adobe are American companies. Japan doesn't make graphical video cards. Japan doesn't have software like Maya, NUKE, MODO, etc. So it stands to reason the Westerners know more about Computer Graphics.

Yet the majority of well-designed games in terms of the actual game still consistently come from Japan. Don't even try to argue otherwise.

depends on the genre.

Can't think a single great racer, 2D platform or first person shooter from Japan, for example.

That is right; it does depend on the genre. Indy developers in the west have put out some good platformers recently, while the volume of 2d platformers from Japan has steadily decreased over the years.

For FPS or racing, you're right as well. Racing sims don't really feature video game design elements though; they chase realism for the most part. Japanese developers also don't really delve into first person games of any sort, so there are next to no titles there.

Can't say i agree with that. Different genres call for difference design decisions. A racer can also be more sim or arcade, depending on which approach they go for.

That's like saying that fighters from the arcades don't feature video game design elements either. They're simply a different format.

Bayonetta 2 is an amazingly well crafted stage action game (thank you Platinum), but it doens't have to project the massive world detail a game like The Wicther 3 has to. How CDPR interconnects the quests, characters, storylines, dungeons, skill progressions, etc, into one solid game is still game design. And yes, the combat will still fall behind many japanese devs, sadly. (Dragon's Dogma is da shit)

However, should they manage it, the game will be amazing and something i haven't seen from a JRPG, or jp game, on a similar front in terms of open world design.

The game will be amazing... unless it's like all their other games which definately aren't amazing.

lordlors:

Language has little to do with technology. Most Japanese didn't know English back in the '90s either, but that didn't stop them from dominating in gaming tech back then. The arcade games from Japanese companies like Sega and Namco, for example, graphically blew away Western games in the '90s. Nor did the lack of English ever prevent the German-Turkish studio Crytek from dominating graphics tech last gen, for that matter. Stop confusing language with technology.

Silicon Studio's Mizuchi engine is still way more powerful than UE4 and Unity, whether you like it or not. Besides, it's not like that's the only cutting-edge Japanese engine. Even Square Enix's Luminous Studio engine looks more impressive than UE4 and Unity, with the Agni's Philosophy tech demo from back in 2012 still looking better than Western games released today. And then there's the Fox Engine, which is at least on-par with the latest Western engines. Right now, Japan more-or-less has the lead in graphics tech.

This thread is bad, TC should feel bad.

TheJapanese, with their games and tech, are currently keeping what little interest most people have in gaming alive.

Titanfall disappointed as a super hyped multi-million dollar advertised multiform western game that what was supposed to be a the best game of the new generation,but Japanese created "niche" Bloodborne caused a firestorm of buzz and excitement among the entire gaming community and internet.

Go to sleep, you are drunk TC

Where's your link it's this more powerful engine because I've never see that anywhere ever.

It actually means the exact opposite. Japan's birth rate has plummeted and the population has become increasingly top heavy in terms of an aging population. Fairly basic economics will lead you to realise that to have a healthy economy you need more young people than elderly in order to support a retired community (those elderly people for the most part are retired or will retire soon and so are a drain on the economy rather than a boon). Without writing a treatise on it here (I quickly realised that even writing some basics would take forever) just read an article on why its bad on google.

The difference between previous gens and this one is that Japanese developers dominated the hardware market both in consoles and hardware. Moving their focus to mobiles doesn't help in them in the scheme of things worldwide because now their is vast competition for those consumers from western and other eastern markets which there never was before, both in software and hardware. Handhelds are now in direct competition from phones and tablets and losing that battle.

I'm not relating language to technology. Language creates a network. English isn't exclusive and is an international language. When technology is developed and is shared and/or collaborated with different nations, it is much better. It is pretty much why a lot of the tech we use today is designed from the West. Intel i7, keyboard and mouse, ASCII code, etc. Crytek used DirectX right? And is DX a tech from the Japanese? No. The Japanese focused on arcade while the West focused on PCs. Does Japan have anything like Commodore 64? No. Again this is because of cultural differences because the Japanese favored the arcade while Westerners favored the freedom of PC game development. Man, you seem to have a very hard time understanding things.

You being quiet about AMD, Nvidia, Autodesk, and Adobe, says much about being unable to process into your brain that Japan isn't an advanced country as much as America. The British has The Foundry making MODO, NUKE, etc. while America has Autodesk making Maya, 3DS Max, etc. Do you even know how important these software are? Imagine if they don't exist how can the Japanese create games? How can the Japanese create a game engine if DirectX and OpenGL don't exist? Tell me if Japan has software as advanced as Flash, Maya, Photoshop, etc. A lot of the great technologies on computer come from the West. Japan doesn't create operating systems. Japan doesn't design and create video cards. There's lots more. Apparently, you're blind to this and keep talking about game engines which is made using Western tech. lol Your argument only consists of game engine because you know that the Japanese are reliant on Western technology.

"When technology is developed and is shared and/or collaborated with different nations, it is much better. It is pretty much why a lot of the tech we use today is designed from the West."

You do realize "the West" consists of several entire continents, including dozens of different countries, right? Are you seriously comparing several entire continents to a single island nation?

"The Japanese focused on arcade while the West focused on PCs. Does Japan have anything like Commodore 64?"

MSX, NEC PC-88, PC-98, Sharp X1, X68000, FM-7, FM Towns, etc. Ever heard of these? Japan had many PC platforms in the '80s and '90s, when Japanese PC tech was more advanced than Western PC tech for much of that era. As for the arcades, that's where you'd find the most advanced technology throughout the '80s and '90s. Western PC tech didn't catch up to Japanese arcade tech until the early 2000s.

"Imagine if they don't exist how can the Japanese create games?"

How do you think they created games up until the PS2 era? Japan didn't need AMD/Nvidia cards or Autodesk/Foundry software to create great games back then. They didn't start widely adopting Western tech until last gen. And that's only for financial reasons, because it's more affordable and less time-consuming than creating their own tech.

"Your argument only consists of game engine because you know that the Japanese are reliant on Western technology."

Regardless of what tech or software they use, the fact remains that Japan is currently creating the most advanced real-time graphics...

...When the West starts catching up to Japan and producing photo-realistic graphics like this, then you might have a point. Until then, your arguments are meaningless.

The West is united by a single language, English. That's what I've been trying to tell you. Unlike Japan which is isolated and in turn insular.

Young and Global Need Not Apply in Japan

The article shows how truly insular Japan is and why Japan is lagging and playing the catch up game. A society that is wary of a globalized person really is a decadent one.

It appears you always go back to that single game engine which apparently isn't even being used. Give me a Japanese film CG that can match the West? Nothing. Give me big games and indie games that use that engine and trump all video games. Nothing. GTA V just got released for PC. The Japanese have nothing that compares to GTA. You're all about that single game engine. lol

Japan can't catch up not just because of financial reasons but that they can't match the collective network of the English-speaking world in creating technologies. That is why you've got Maya, MODO, etc. today while the Japanese have no software to show. Japan doesn't create video cards.

BTW, the Super FX chip of SNES was a collaboration of a British company. Even way back then, without Western support, I don't think Japan would have progressed. The RTS genre and the FPS genre are created by Westerners. Apparently, the Japanese weren't creative enough to have created these two genres if they had very advanced PCs back then. In the end, the American Windows PC and Mac prevailed and influenced the tech world while British and Japanese PCs faded,

A PC only future with no japanese games? No thanks. I like a little variety in my gaming. If you want to game on a PC only and buy all your western games on Steam, go ahead. But that shouldn't be the only option in the world. Quit it with the wishful thinking.

lordlors:

"Give me a Japanese film CG that can match the West? Nothing."

Wrong. Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within had the best CGI ever seen when it came out in 2001, and was unsurpassed by any Hollywood movie up until Avatar in 2009. And just a few years after that, in 2013, Japan once again surpassed Hollywood in movie CGI with Captain Harlock, which still hasn't been beaten yet by any Hollywood CGI movie. Even Avatar director James Cameron was blown away by Captain Harlock's CGI.

"Give me big games and indie games that use that engine and trump all video games."

Since Mizuchi was only revealed late last year, there aren't any games announced for it yet. But FFXV for Luminous Studio and MGS5 for Fox Engine are some of the best-looking games out there. FFXV in particular is the most technically advanced open-world game to date, according to Digital Foundry.

"GTA V just got released for PC. The Japanese have nothing that compares to GTA."

Wrong again. Yakuza Zero and especially Final Fantasy XV completely blow away GTA5 in terms of technology. The GTA characters in particular look like cartoon characters compared to Yakuza or FFXV. And technically, GTA5 is almost a generation behind FFXV.

"BTW, the Super FX chip of SNES was a collaboration of a British company. Even way back then, without Western support, I don't think Japan would have progressed."

The SuperFX chip was very weak compared to the older Namco System 21 arcade board from 1988, let alone the far more powerful Sega Model 2 arcade system which released the same year in 1993. Western PCs didn't catch up to the Sega Model 2 until the late '90s, or Sega arcade tech in general until the early 2000s. Also, Western PCs didn't surpass Japanese PC tech until 1999, when Nvidia introduced hardware T&L to Western PCs two years after Fujitsu released it for Japanese PCs.

"The RTS genre and the FPS genre are created by Westerners. Apparently, the Japanese weren't creative enough to have created these two genres if they had very advanced PCs back then."

Wrong once again. The RTS genre was created in Japan back in 1989. Herzog Zwei for the Sega Mega Drive inspired Dune II and is the grandaddy of all RTS and MOBA games today. As for the FPS genre, Japanese PCs in 1988 had Star Cruiser, which not only anticipated the gameplay and strafing controls of Wolfenstein 3D by 4 years, but also featured fully 3D polygon graphics long before Quake as well as RPG elements long before System Shock. Also, the Sharp X68000 version of Star Cruiser in 1989 had the most advanced 3D graphics for a home system in the '80s.

Nope. I've seen Harlock. It doesn't look better than Hollywood CGIs. Who deems a CG movie as the best anyway? By your authority? SE had problems with that precious engine that Kingdom Hearts III is going to use UE4 instead. FFXV isn't released yet. Previews and impressions are less accurate than reviews when it really releases. sigh... This is why battle of the graphics and unreleased games are tiring. I talk about tools. You have nothing to show for the Japanese that can match Maya, 3DS Max, Photoshop, After Effects, etc. The internet and the modern computer (not abacus) are invented by Westerners. Without them, would the Japanese have achieved anything at all?

Before I continue, it seems you're quiet on the article I posted. You're also quiet about my response about the insularity of Japan. Did you read the article? It's so sad to see how much Japan has fallen. And its future isn't bright.

Man I'm so impressed by your being a weaboo. You should come here and "work" in Japan to see all its glo... ahem... It's still amazing how most Japanese gamers don't know what an RTS and MOBA is. It's laughable.

Who says that should be the only option? I'm saying Japan doesn't have a bright future. It has lots of problems. It isn't an open-minded country that immigration laws are very tight and strict even with the aging and shrinking population. I'm quite sad to be honest. Seriously man. Living here long in Japan you get to experience lots of shit just like any other country. It's not the country most weaboos paint it to be.

"Nope. I've seen Harlock. It doesn't look better than Hollywood CGIs. Who deems a CG movie as the best anyway?"

Captain Harlock was marketed as having better CGI than Hollywood. And judging by how impressed he was with its CGI, it seems Avatar director James Cameron agrees with this. You only hurt your own argument by bringing up CGI, because that's an area where Japan is still leading. The CGI from Square Enix's Visual Works studio also looks more impressive than Hollywood CGI, like the CGI trailers they created for the Tomb Raider and Hitman games, for example.

"SE had problems with that precious engine that Kingdom Hearts III is going to use UE4 instead."

KH3 only switched to UE4 because Luminous is incomplete. It's simply to speed up the development, so they don't have to wait around for Squenix to finish up development on Luminous. And according to the KH3 team, they never had any issues with UE4, as Epic has a Japanese branch with great technical support, defeating your own argument about the language barrier being an issue for technology. Since Epic has a Japanese branch, there is no language barrier for UE4. And Epic has a Japanese branch because they view Japanese developers as valuable customers for their UE engines.

"FFXV isn't released yet. Previews and impressions are less accurate than reviews when it really releases. sigh... This is why battle of the graphics and unreleased games are tiring."

You do realize the FFXV playable demo was released last month, right? According to Digital Foundry, the "time of day cycling is truly above and beyond anything we've seen before in real-time", "the results stand as some of the most impressive we've seen in an open world experience", and "Compared to other sandbox fantasy games from the last few years, Final Fantasy 15 really feels like a true next-generation leap." And this is just for the demo running on an incomplete Luminous engine, yet it's still the most technically impressive open-world game to date. Yakuza Zero and MGS5 Ground Zeroes also look more impressive than GTA5. And Ground Zeroes was better optimized for PC than it was for consoles, despite being Kojima Productions' first PC game.

"I talk about tools. You have nothing to show for the Japanese that can match Maya, 3DS Max, Photoshop, After Effects, etc."

I already mentioned several game engines: Silicon Studio's Mizuchi, Square Enix's Luminous Studio, and Konami's Fox Engine. Silicon Studio also has 3D software like Orochi and the Yebis post-processing tools, which are used in games like FFXV and Bloodborne and incorporated by 3D software like Substance Designer and MODO. Then there's older Japanese 3D software which were popular a decade ago, like Shade 3D, Mikoto, Metasequoia, etc. And then there's 2D software still popular among Eastern & Western indie developers today, like the RPG Maker series, NScripter, etc.

"The internet and the computer are invented by Westerners. Without them, would the Japanese have achieved anything at all?"

Neither of those would have been possible in homes without the microprocessor, which was first conceived by the Japanese company Busicom in 1969.

"Did you read the article?"

What does it have to do with gaming?

"Man I'm so impressed by your being a weaboo."

In other words, any time you are proven wrong with facts, you resort to the "weaboo" strawman. That's just weak. What's worrying is your anti-Japan crusade, which is getting creepy. Did you get abused in Japan or something?

"It's still amazing how most Japanese gamers don't know what an RTS and MOBA is."

We already know PC gaming is unpopular in Japan. Nothing surprising about that. But there was a time when PC gaming was popular in Japan, up until its decline in the mid-90s, which was around the time PC gaming went mainstream in America.

"It isn't an open-minded country that immigration laws are very tight and strict even with the aging and shrinking population."

Mass immigration could resolve Japan's population crisis (like neighbouring South Korea which is slowly loosening its immigration laws), but most of the immigrants would naturally be from the developing third world (South & Southeast Asia, Middle East, Africa, Latin America), so I can imagine a lot of right-wing nationalists being opposed to that idea. A lot of Western countries have also started to tighten their immigration laws because of the rise of right-wing nationalism (due to the recession).

"Living here long in Japan you get to experience lots of shit just like any other country. It's not the country most weaboos paint it to be."

Maybe you shouldn't have had such high expectations before going to Japan? I've heard of so-called "weaboos" who went to Japan thinking it's going to be some kind of paradise, but ended up disliking the country because it didn't live up to their unrealistic expectations.

Aren't arcades still popular in Japan?

True. The arcades are still big in Japan, and are making more revenues than consoles there. However, just like consoles, the arcades are also on the decline in Japan, with mobile gaming slowly eating into the arcade market.

Ummm no. Blizzard has the top spot for CGI in games not SE sorry. Problem with Blizzard is that they take so much time to make CG and release games. The teaser for LoV was a disappointment but it means they're holding off for the true trailer. Cameron doesn't have the authority on what is the top CG movie. Nobody does. There's tons of CG movies unlike games where high poly and pre-rendered CG is only for cutscenes. Of course he's impressed. Anybody will be impressed too. Who wouldn't be? But that doesn't mean it's the top CG movie.

You're still relying on previews and impressions. All hype. All videos of an unreleased game. Wait til it releases kiddo then we'll see what this FF XV is about.

This is becoming similar to Chinese inventions vs. Greek inventions. Going back and forth spewing inventions. Tiring. The fact is, right "now", the Japanese can't make anything if they won't use Western technologies. The West can do just fine without Japanese technologies. It speaks how much Japan has declined.

The article shows how hard it is even for Japanese with a Western education to get a job here in Japan. You have to study here in Japan to get a job. Talk about discrimination. No wonder Japanese game studios isn't as diverse as Western studios with people from different backgrounds. I'm hoping it will change in the future.

I didn't have high expectations of Japan. Seeing as it's a first world country, I thought it would also be kinda similar to other first world countries in the West. The infrastructure is amazing though just as I had expected.

Man your counter points are spot on and deadly.

You've thoroughly dismantled this guy in every exchange but it's time to stop because he either ignores your points or tried to create a new angle to make up for his failed/destroyed arguments.

I don't think there is a point in continuing to reply to this guy, I give you props for going as long as you did but when he resorts to saying stuff like:

"Man I'm so impressed by your being a weaboo."

You have to know you are just dealing with an individual who has an internal hatred/bias against Japan and will never concede that his original stance might have been wrong on the subject no matter what facts you provide--and you provided many (all of which made him look ignorant and silly).

lordlors:

"Blizzard has the top spot for CGI in games not SE sorry."

I haven't seen anything from Blizzard that comes close to the photo-realistic CGI of SE Visual Works' Hitman: Absolution trailer from 2012.

"Cameron doesn't have the authority on what is the top CG movie."

James Cameron's Avatar is still widely regarded as Hollywood's best CGI to date. He knows what he's talking about when he praised Captain Harlock's "magnificent visuals" as something "the world has never seen before." He clearly views Captain Harlock as being either equal to, or better than, his own CG work. And that's at a small fraction of Avatar's budget.

"You're still relying on previews and impressions. All hype. All videos of an unreleased game. Wait til it releases kiddo then we'll see what this FF XV is about."

Did you even read what I said? FFXV Episode Duscae is a fully playable demo. MGS5 Ground Zeroes is a fully playable game. Yakuza Zero is a fully playable game. None of these are just "videos of an unreleased game." All of these fully playable open-world games are technically more impressive than GTA5.

"This is becoming similar to Chinese inventions vs. Greek inventions. Going back and forth spewing inventions. Tiring."

And yet you're the one who started this contest.

"The article shows how hard it is even for Japanese with a Western education to get a job here in Japan. You have to study here in Japan to get a job. Talk about discrimination."

The article doesn't mention anything about the game industry. Just because some other Japanese industries might discriminate, that doesn't necessarily mean the game industry does the same. You're just generalizing.

playharderfool:

You're right, there's probably no point continuing this debate any further. I think I'll just call it a day after this post.

You can't use unproven engines we haven't seen, or only apply to an amount of developers you can count on one hand and ignore the fact the majority of japanese games aren't trying to push anything.

It's very shameful that it took Nintendo a long time to realize that the Internet exist, instead, they wasted their time trying to show off why 3D is still important.

Mobile gaming on the rise...

I hope they don't die out. There are companies that still produce great, worthwhile games (mostly Atlus, Axys and Nintendo). Is Platinum Japanese? I think so. Them too. All great companies that put their fans first and consistently deliver high quality products.

currently Japan takes more than 2 spots in top 10 games this year

wtf is this shit

Don't post in threads that have been inactive for over 30 days.