Video Games should not have stories

The problem with story telling in games is for the most part developers resort to breaking the gameplay to tell the story. Games usually resort to two methods to tell stories either text or cutscenes. Both these methods stop you from playing and it ceases to take advantage of the medium. Not only does it no take advantage of the games but its ceases to be a game. Its a game that uses movies or novels to tell stories. Games will never come into their own if they continue to play second fiddle to film and literature.

Another issue with medium when it comes to story telling is pacing. In a game Final Fantasy Tactics you read text for 30 minutes then battle for 30 minutes. This is terrible for the story and gameplay and destroys the flow of both. Then there is the issue of difficulty. You don't wanna make the game too hard and ruin the pacing but at the same time you need to keep it hard enough to keep up tension. The video game medium is inherently flawed when it comes to story telling.

Limited range of story is a issue do to the need of gameplay due to gameplay. When you right a story you have to write it with gameplay in mind which makes the writing harder and then gameplay comes secondary. The other option is to create the mechanics and write a story around it but then the story is just tacked on with no purpose. Stories in games take away from the story and the gameplay takes away from the story.

What games do well is not story telling but but world building and immersion. I think a story can be used to strengthen those aspects but they can be done through other aspects. You can still tell a story that strengthens things do well like in Portal 2. All the story telling is done with the player in control. The actual story telling is minimum but there is enough there to immerse you in the world. The reason the game is so great is that it fully realizes the world it set out to create. Its the same reason a game like Bioshock is so great. The gameplay is nothing special but Rapture is just a place you want to explore.

Maybe games one day will be able to tell good stories and take advantage of what games have to offer but I don't see it happening any time soon. Developers need to learn how to blend gameplay and story. The best example I can see is Bioshock because it kinda tells a lot through the enviorment. Also Ico, Journey, Portal 2, and Shadow of The Colossus are good examples. Although I have only play a little bit of bastion I think its approach to story telling could be beneficial for the industry.Planescape Torment is not because when you spend more time reading then you do playing its a terrible example of how to tell stories in games

The problem with story telling in games is for the most part developers resort to breaking the gameplay to tell the story. Games usually resort to two methods to tell stories either text or cutscenes. Both these methods stop you from playing and it ceases to take advantage of the medium. Not only does it no take advantage of the games but its ceases to be a game. Its a game that uses movies or novels to tell stories. Games will never come into their own if they continue to play second fiddle to film and literature.

Another issue with medium when it comes to story telling is pacing. In a game Final Fantasy Tactics you read text for 30 minutes then battle for 30 minutes. This is terrible for the story and gameplay and destroys the flow of both. Then there is the issue of difficulty. You don't wanna make the game too hard and ruin the pacing but at the same time you need to keep it hard enough to keep up tension. The video game medium is inherently flawed when it comes to story telling.

Limited range of story is a issue do to the need of gameplay due to gameplay. When you right a story you have to write it with gameplay in mind which makes the writing harder and then gameplay comes secondary. The other option is to create the mechanics and write a story around it but then the story is just tacked on with no purpose. Stories in games take away from the story and the gameplay takes away from the story.

What games do well is not story telling but but world building and immersion. I think a story can be used to strengthen those aspects but they can be done through other aspects. You can still tell a story that strengthens things do well like in Portal 2. All the story telling is done with the player in control. The actual story telling is minimum but there is enough there to immerse you in the world. The reason the game is so great is that it fully realizes the world it set out to create. Its the same reason a game like Bioshock is so great. The gameplay is nothing special but Rapture is just a place you want to explore.

Maybe games one day will be able to tell good stories and take advantage of what games have to offer but I don't see it happening any time soon. Developers need to learn how to blend gameplay and story. The best example I can see is Bioshock because it kinda tells a lot through the enviorment. Also Ico, Journey, Portal 2, and Shadow of The Colossus are good examples. Although I have only play a little bit of bastion I think its approach to story telling could be beneficial for the industry.Planescape Torment is not because when you spend more time reading then you do playing its a terrible example of how to tell stories in games

_Judge_Gabranth

Go die in a hole.

Riadon2

You mad cause I right?

^

THIEF!

As much as these shallow cinematic brofests are something that don't really interest me, I don't see what we gain from all games having no story. That would be boring.

The problem with story telling in games is for the most part developers resort to breaking the gameplay to tell the story. Games usually resort to two methods to tell stories either text or cutscenes. Both these methods stop you from playing and it ceases to take advantage of the medium. Not only does it no take advantage of the games but its ceases to be a game. Its a game that uses movies or novels to tell stories. Games will never come into their own if they continue to play second fiddle to film and literature.

Another issue with medium when it comes to story telling is pacing. In a game Final Fantasy Tactics you read text for 30 minutes then battle for 30 minutes. This is terrible for the story and gameplay and destroys the flow of both. Then there is the issue of difficulty. You don't wanna make the game too hard and ruin the pacing but at the same time you need to keep it hard enough to keep up tension. The video game medium is inherently flawed when it comes to story telling.

Limited range of story is a issue do to the need of gameplay due to gameplay. When you right a story you have to write it with gameplay in mind which makes the writing harder and then gameplay comes secondary. The other option is to create the mechanics and write a story around it but then the story is just tacked on with no purpose. Stories in games take away from the story and the gameplay takes away from the story.

What games do well is not story telling but but world building and immersion. I think a story can be used to strengthen those aspects but they can be done through other aspects. You can still tell a story that strengthens things do well like in Portal 2. All the story telling is done with the player in control. The actual story telling is minimum but there is enough there to immerse you in the world. The reason the game is so great is that it fully realizes the world it set out to create. Its the same reason a game like Bioshock is so great. The gameplay is nothing special but Rapture is just a place you want to explore.

Maybe games one day will be able to tell good stories and take advantage of what games have to offer but I don't see it happening any time soon. Developers need to learn how to blend gameplay and story. The best example I can see is Bioshock because it kinda tells a lot through the enviorment. Also Ico, Journey, Portal 2, and Shadow of The Colossus are good examples. Although I have only play a little bit of bastion I think its approach to story telling could be beneficial for the industry.Planescape Torment is not because when you spend more time reading then you do playing its a terrible example of how to tell stories in games

_Judge_Gabranth

.

.

no thanks. I like stories in videogames.campzor

You dont like video games

[QUOTE="campzor"]no thanks. I like stories in videogames._Judge_Gabranth

You dont like video games

Did no one read his post? He presents a valid arguement. Throw in Majora's Mask, Metroid Prime, and Mother 3 into the small pile of games that do story well.

Go die in a hole.

Riadon2

Did no one read his post? He presents a valid arguement. Throw in Majora's Mask, Metroid Prime, and Mother 3 into the small pile of games that do story well.

nintendoman562

I agree with all those. Mother 3 does have dialogue but its few and far between as far as I remember. Thanks for being constructive and for reading

All true.

Games are by far the worst medium for story telling.

But don't worry, you're just going to get a bunch of angry ignorant responses from people who won't read the topic.

Story telling is a joke in video games, but most people have just grown comfortable with how bad it is and as soon as you point that out they get all uncomfortable and scared.

story is the main reason I play games...

story is the main reason I play games...

josephl64

I am here to tell you, you have wasted your life

Stick to Tetris.

[QUOTE="josephl64"]

story is the main reason I play games...

_Judge_Gabranth

I am here to tell you, you have wasted your life

tell that to The Walking Dead or Heavy Rainultraking

The Walking Dead made me cry. "Sad" scenes in movies are usually unintentionally funny. Video game stories have a HUGE amount of potential.

tell that to The Walking Dead or Heavy Rainultraking

I haven't played TWD, but I wouldn't use heavy rain as a positive example of story telling in video games. HR had an awful story, full of plot holes and bad acting. Plus it's story was so obtrusive to the game's "interactivity" that you could argue HR isn't even a video game at all.

The problem with story telling in games is for the most part developers resort to breaking the gameplay to tell the story. Games usually resort to two methods to tell stories either text or cutscenes. Both these methods stop you from playing and it ceases to take advantage of the medium. Not only does it no take advantage of the games but its ceases to be a game. Its a game that uses movies or novels to tell stories. Games will never come into their own if they continue to play second fiddle to film and literature.

Many games use this well though. DXHR allows for the story to have its more poignant moments through cutscenes while filling in a lot of it during gameplay. Cutscenes, as movie-like as they may be, never disturbed in something like Batman: Arkham City. While I see what you mean about using other mediums to tell a game's story, that's perfectly fine as long as the mix is good and the gamers are informed about this, like when a significant event happens and cannot be told through gameplay at this point. Also, look at games like MGS Peace Walker that have cutscenes that often require the gamer to interact with.

Another issue with medium when it comes to story telling is pacing. In a game Final Fantasy Tactics you read text for 30 minutes then battle for 30 minutes. This is terrible for the story and gameplay and destroys the flow of both. Then there is the issue of difficulty. You don't wanna make the game too hard and ruin the pacing but at the same time you need to keep it hard enough to keep up tension. The video game medium is inherently flawed when it comes to story telling.

Looking at the extremes will always make something look wrong. Gears of War 1 had very small cutscenes yet managed to keep its flow of constant stop-n-pop shooting because they led directly into each other. In fact, cutscenes in the entire trilogy have often affected which route the gameplay takes.

Limited range of story is a issue do to the need of gameplay due to gameplay. When you right a story you have to write it with gameplay in mind which makes the writing harder and then gameplay comes secondary. The other option is to create the mechanics and write a story around it but then the story is just tacked on with no purpose. Stories in games take away from the story and the gameplay takes away from the story.

This is true, but when you don't have ludo-narrative dissonance between story and the gameplay (like DXHR sort of has with its boss fights and stealth-based gameplay), the gameplay can reflect the story quite well. 999 has an amazing story with the perfect gameplay to suit it, if you want to call it gameplay at all. Sure, there's a lot of reading, but that leads to clever extrapolation of the characters and the environments that you must use to escape.

What games do well is not story telling but but world building and immersion. I think a story can be used to strengthen those aspects but they can be done through other aspects. You can still tell a story that strengthens things do well like in Portal 2. All the story telling is done with the player in control. The actual story telling is minimum but there is enough there to immerse you in the world. The reason the game is so great is that it fully realizes the world it set out to create. Its the same reason a game like Bioshock is so great. The gameplay is nothing special but Rapture is just a place you want to explore.

DXHR builds an amazing world, has some of the best immersion ever in a game, and tops it off with a great story. Look at Sleeping Dogs from this year.

Maybe games one day will be able to tell good stories and take advantage of what games have to offer but I don't see it happening any time soon.Developers need to learn how to blend gameplay and story. The best example I can see is Bioshock because it kinda tells a lot through the enviorment. Also Ico, Journey, Portal 2, and Shadow of The Colossus are good examples. Although I have only play a little bit of bastion I think its approach to story telling could be beneficial for the industry.Planescape Torment is not because when you spend more time reading then you do playing its a terrible example of how to tell stories in games

Games, when going for linear stories, will never be as good as movies. But just because this industry is good for leading the player to make their thoughts rather than defining them like other genres do doesn't mean we always have to in the aforementioned examples. Games that allow for more than one route to an action, like DXHR or 999, are what makes gaming split off into its own path and allow for the genre to flourish most.

_Judge_Gabranth

IMO in red.

[QUOTE="ultraking"]tell that to The Walking Dead or Heavy Raingoblaa

I haven't played TWD, but I wouldn't use heavy rain as a positive example of story telling in video games. HR had an awful story, full of plot holes and bad acting. Plus it's story was so obtrusive to the game's "interactivity" that you could argue HR isn't even a video game at all.

I've played Heavy Rain and it isn't really a good example.

Go die in a hole.

Riadon2

atleast half life 1 told a story through gameplay and not cutscenes.youpieceopoo

Heweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

If everyone thought the way the OP thinks, we wouldn't have games like Planescape: Torment, The Walking Dead, To the Moon, Spec Ops: The Line, or Dear Esther.

OP is therefore wrong.

The hell is this forum coming to? O.o Anyway, I disagree very strongly. Games are developing into the next level beyond film, as film was a level beyond literature. I don't mean that it's superior, but that it adds a whole other level of depth and immersion. That doesn't make literature second fiddle to film, and thus games are not second fiddle to either of those. Some games go for the game play as the ones you listed did, and that's perfectly fine, but what's wrong with developers telling a story? What if it does have characteristics of movies, if those elements are implemented correctly? I don't think the issue is that games need to tone down the stories, but rather, need to stop telling generic bad ones. Yes, that is obviously harder then ignoring that element entirely, but many a game, such as Far Cry 3, Witcher, etc. have proven that it is certainly worth it already when implemented correctly, and overall it isn't as hard to get it within acceptable levels as you seem to make it out to be. But hey, if you don't care about the story, most games skip cut-scenes and text when you press start or something.hexashadow13

The problem is when developers try to tell stories they take out the game part to tell a story. JRPGs are the worst offenders. They would be better off with no gameplay most the time. FIghting a bunch of random rats adds nothing to the story and ruins the pacing. I think if games are going to go that route they should go like Shadow of the Colossus and have every battle very important.

Hyperbole aside, yes, story should take the backseat while everything else is polished to hell and back. Then, a story can be introduced in a way that works with the already polished gameplay. If that's not possible, just toss it aside and release the game with a shell of a story.

I do disagree with the Planescape: Torment example, mainly because the Infinity Engine and the AD&D rules already made for very, very solid gameplay foundations that could allow for that kind of experiments to actually work.

Slap yourself in the face for me, thanks.

tell that to The Walking Dead or Heavy Rainultraking

I havent played TWD yet but Heavy Rain is a good example of how to tell a story if you are going to do it. Its a interactive movie sure but its still interactive and you have influence. They could have shoehorned in a crappy 3rd person shooter or something but they cut it down to the bare basics to keep it interactive while still telling a story. The quality of the story is a whole other topic though

[QUOTE="youpieceopoo"]atleast half life 1 told a story through gameplay and not cutscenes.Riadon2

Heweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[QUOTE="ultraking"]tell that to The Walking Dead or Heavy Raingoblaa

I haven't played TWD, but I wouldn't use heavy rain as a positive example of story telling in video games. HR had an awful story, full of plot holes and bad acting. Plus it's story was so obtrusive to the game's "interactivity" that you could argue HR isn't even a video game at all.

[QUOTE="_Judge_Gabranth"]

[QUOTE="campzor"]no thanks. I like stories in videogames.lightleggy

You dont like video games

I can see what your getting at, and understand if long cutscenes break up the pace. I got frustrated with final fantasy 13 (my first ff) because of long and annoying cut scenes. It's a game afterall, it should mainly focus on GAMEplay, and portal and bioshock do blend gameplay and story very well. If you wanted a good story, you would read a book or see a movie.

I think videogames sit in between the media however. Professor Layton, you read text for an interesting story, but play puzzles to advance. I dont see what the problem is; as long as it's a good story, why complain? You will want to continue listening or reading. It shouldnt break up pace unless it is an annoying script.

Many games use this well though. DXHR allows for the story to have its more poignant moments through cutscenes while filling in a lot of it during gameplay. Cutscenes, as movie-like as they may be, never disturbed in something like Batman: Arkham City. While I see what you mean about using other mediums to tell a game's story, that's perfectly fine as long as the mix is good and the gamers are informed about this, like when a significant event happens and cannot be told through gameplay at this point. Also, look at games like MGS Peace Walker that have cutscenes that often require the gamer to interact with.

Blabadon

If you are just going to tell the story through cutscenes why even tell the story cause it will always be inferior to film. Games should use their strengths. Maybe they will never be able to super copmlex narritives with deep characters but games can do things no other medium can do. Also I wouldnt say I am totally against text in game as long as it isnt forced and fits into the world. For example I think Braid is terrible cause all the sotry is done through mini novels that have nothing to do with the gameplay. Meanwhile a game like skyrim has optional text with NPCs that further flesh out the world without forcing the player to read it so it doesnt break immersion

Disagreed on all counts. There are many ways to tell a story in video games and some are more suitable for different genres. For RPGs, a lot of text works. For action-adventure, cutscenes work as does in-game storytelling a la Portal 2 or Bioshock.

Gamesshould have stories, not all of them but the industry should not shy away from having stories in games. There is room in this industry for games with no story, games with a Hollywood blockbuster motif, games with a minimalistic focus and games with a strong, poignant narrative with a profound message. To say that stories don't belong in this medium is detrimental to the industry and its growth.

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="_Judge_Gabranth"]

You dont like video games

Minishdriveby

The only good stories this year were The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line.

Mass Effect 3 was alright, but I wasn't really that big a fan of most of it.

[QUOTE="Blabadon"]

Many games use this well though. DXHR allows for the story to have its more poignant moments through cutscenes while filling in a lot of it during gameplay. Cutscenes, as movie-like as they may be, never disturbed in something like Batman: Arkham City. While I see what you mean about using other mediums to tell a game's story, that's perfectly fine as long as the mix is good and the gamers are informed about this, like when a significant event happens and cannot be told through gameplay at this point. Also, look at games like MGS Peace Walker that have cutscenes that often require the gamer to interact with.

_Judge_Gabranth

If you are just going to tell the story through cutscenes why even tell the story cause it will always be inferior to film. Games should use their strengths. Maybe they will never be able to super copmlex narritives with deep characters but games can do things no other medium can do. Also I wouldnt say I am totally against text in game as long as it isnt forced and fits into the world. For example I think Braid is terrible cause all the sotry is done through mini novels that have nothing to do with the gameplay. Meanwhile a game like skyrim has optional text with NPCs that further flesh out the world without forcing the player to read it so it doesnt break immersion

Film story is overrated.

The only good stories this year were The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line.

Riadon2

Username and post don't add up