Uncharted graphics, cows have low standards or bad eye sight?

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mrfrosty151986

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#1 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

Nice detailed wall..

What the hell happened?

Nice and detailed

A flat mess in reality

Looks bump mapped doesnt it?

Oh... it's actualy not

And the worst thing is? You get camera angles while playing that show these faults off....

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Badosh

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#2 Badosh
Member since 2011 • 12772 Posts
UC looks good, shut up you.
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GamerwillzPS

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#3 GamerwillzPS
Member since 2012 • 8531 Posts

Do you have a clue what the screen resolution is?

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Maneil99

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#4 Maneil99
Member since 2012 • 842 Posts

j9kSZ.jpgWhat is this.... Maybe I should go check out some of those amazing Halo 4 textures eh... :P

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mrfrosty151986

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#5 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts
UC looks good, shut up you. Badosh
So what is it for you? low standards or bad eye sight?
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BPoole96

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#6 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts

It doesn't look that good close up but when you're actually playing the game it looks quite remarkable, especially considering the weak hardware it is running on.

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Maneil99

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#7 Maneil99
Member since 2012 • 842 Posts

[QUOTE="Badosh"]UC looks good, shut up you. mrfrosty151986
So what is it for you? low standards or bad eye sight?

Off screen Pics + High Sharpness Level on TV = Any game looks bad

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freedomfreak

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#8 freedomfreak  Online
Member since 2004 • 52079 Posts
Yup. Those totally ruined the game for me. Like totally.
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mrfrosty151986

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#9 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="Badosh"]UC looks good, shut up you. Maneil99

So what is it for you? low standards or bad eye sight?

Off screen Pics + High Sharpness Level on TV + Any game looks bad

So high sharpness and off screen remove polygons from walls now? :lol:
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#10 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 58510 Posts
9.0 AAAE Editors Choice Award.
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NEWMAHAY

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#11 NEWMAHAY
Member since 2012 • 3824 Posts
its consoles in general.
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mrfrosty151986

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#12 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

j9kSZ.jpgWhat is this.... Maybe I should go check out some of those amazing Halo 4 textures eh... :P

Maneil99
Ewwww..... I think lemmings have bad standards too!!
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Maneil99

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#13 Maneil99
Member since 2012 • 842 Posts

[QUOTE="Maneil99"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] So what is it for you? low standards or bad eye sight?mrfrosty151986

Off screen Pics + High Sharpness Level on TV + Any game looks bad

So high sharpness and off screen remove polygons from walls now? :lol:

Even some PC games have awful textures if you go looking for them. Crysis' rocks for instance and even some ground textures.

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#14 DaBrainz
Member since 2007 • 7959 Posts
Low standards-Its the best looking game on their system.
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mrfrosty151986

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#15 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="Maneil99"]

Off screen Pics + High Sharpness Level on TV + Any game looks bad

Maneil99

So high sharpness and off screen remove polygons from walls now? :lol:

Even some PC games have awful textures if you go looking for them. Crysis' rocks for instance and even some ground textures.

You didn't answer my question....
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#16 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

You should learn what parallex occlusion mapping is.A lot of PC games use it too.

They are flat textures that appear 3D when looked at it head on. On a really steep angle they look flat. Tessellations are replacing PoM. If Sony and Microsoft are smart, they'll put a decent tessellation unit in the next gen consoles so that console games can take advantage of it.

To anybody who thinks this is just "console tricks", you are extremely wrong and ignorant. Crysis 1 and 2 use PoM heavily as well as STALKER. STALKER really abuses the crap out of PoM. Brick walls and brick paved roads are actually flat texutres with PoM.

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#17 AdobeArtist  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25184 Posts

Uhhh yeah, most games use a texture fill on large flat surfaces. What? You actually expected a pattern of hundreds of bricks to be that many polygonal renders for each and every brick?

There isn't a facepalm big enough for this one :roll: :|

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Wasdie

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#18 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

Uhhh yeah, most games use a texture fill on large flat surfaces. What? You actually expected a pattern of hundreds of bricks to be that many polygonal renders of a large surface?

There isn't a facepalm big enough for this one :roll: :|

AdobeArtist

With tessellations those flat walls become nothing but tons of polygons. But that's the point of tessellations. Millions of polygons, very little performance hit.

Tessellations are better than PoM because they don't just simulate depth, they are physical polygons. A tessellation unit can run millions of tessellations easily allowing you to throw 100k polys on a wall with no performance hit. Actually you gain performanceby replacing PoM textures withtessellations as PoM requires some pretty math heavy stuff that has to run through the pipeline instead of rendering on the dedicated unit.

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#19 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 10645 Posts
For **** sake, textures are always flat. Consoles can't pump out a lot of polygons considering they can't do things like tessellation. Not to mention that looks like MP and MP in Uncharted 3 is pretty downgraded from its SP. Not to mention those are terrible quality images to even use to come up with an conclusion.
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1080pOnly

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#20 1080pOnly
Member since 2009 • 2216 Posts

All of the consoles look awful unless played on a 15" screen from 6 feet away. Roll on next gen.

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Wasdie

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#21 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

For **** sake, textures are always flat. Consoles can't pump out a lot of polygons considering they can't do things like tessellation. Not to mention that looks like MP and MP in Uncharted 3 is pretty downgraded from its SP. Not to mention those are terrible quality images to even use to come up with an conclusion. Nonstop-Madness

Textures are flat, but with PoM and bump mapping you can give them a lot of depth and have lighting calculations applied to them. Neat tricks to save on a lot of polygons that could be used for more important things.

That's all graphics are on ALL platforms. Tricks to make your game look as good as possible. Even PC games work on a resource budget. Gotta make the best use of what you have.

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#22 Ly_the_Fairy
Member since 2011 • 8541 Posts

Nathan Drake from a distance

uncharted2a11.jpg

But get a little closer and you'll see

MEJa7.jpg

But then get EVEN closer, and you'll see...

[spoiler] JKCkH.jpg [/spoiler]

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mrfrosty151986

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#23 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

You should learn what parallex occlusion mapping is.A lot of PC games use it too.

They are flat textures that appear 3D when looked at it head on. On a really steep angle they look flat. Tessellations are replacing PoM. If Sony and Microsoft are smart, they'll put a decent tessellation unit in the next gen consoles so that console games can take advantage of it.

To anybody who thinks this is just "console tricks", you are extremely wrong and ignorant. Crysis 1 and 2 use PoM heavily as well as STALKER. STALKER really abuses the crap out of PoM. Brick walls and brick paved roads are actually flat texutres with PoM.

Wasdie
POM in stalker looks fine and in many ways looks better then the tessellated walls in Crysis 2...
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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#24 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts
I'd like to see the TCs artistic talent in 3D modeling. TC comes across as a fckng btch, IMO--quit fckng whining.
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#25 1080pOnly
Member since 2009 • 2216 Posts

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Uhhh yeah, most games use a texture fill on large flat surfaces. What? You actually expected a pattern of hundreds of bricks to be that many polygonal renders of a large surface?

There isn't a facepalm big enough for this one :roll: :|

Wasdie

With tessellations those flat walls become nothing but tons of polygons. But that's the point of tessellations. Millions of polygons, very little performance hit.

Tessellations are better than PoM because they don't just simulate depth, they are physical polygons. A tessellation unit can run millions of tessellations easily allowing you to throw 100k polys on a wall with no performance hit. Actually you gain performanceby replacing PoM textures withtessellations as PoM requires some pretty math heavy stuff that has to run through the pipeline instead of rendering on the dedicated unit.

I thought this was funny. Technically you could argue it's correct (it's more physics than physical) but it made me think of some kid running to his mom because he just cut himself on a bunch of tessellated polygons.

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mrfrosty151986

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#26 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts
I'd like to see the TCs artistic talent in 3D modeling. TC comes across as a fckng btch, IMO--quit fckng whining.Heirren
Swearing and insults in a single post? I must of hit a nerve... :lol:
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#27 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

If you could some how run Uncharted 3 at native 1080p, with more AA, AF, and at 60fps, it would be one of the best looking games on the market. Naughty Dog did what they could with the limited hardware they have.

I also believe Naughty Dog doesn't use any software upscaling in the PS3. So the game is forced to be run in 720p even if you've set your PS3 to 1080p. This helps the screen stay very clear as the software upscaler in the PS3 makes the image a bit blurry, more so than if your just let the TV handle the upscaling to 1080. Remember, you're always seeing the native resolution of your TV depsite what the signal is, so the picture is getting upscaled at a point.

Naughty Dog uses pretty much every trick in the book to get Uncharted 3 to look like it did. They did a fantastic job considering the PS3 only has 512 mbs of total system RAM. If you could throw that game more hardware, it would really shine.

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nameless12345

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#28 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Wait, you're really looking for tessellation in PS3 games?

:lol:

Also, snapped console shots will always look like @ss.

There's a reason why you're supposed to play consoles at a distance and on a TV which smoothens out some of the edges...

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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#29 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts
[QUOTE="Heirren"]I'd like to see the TCs artistic talent in 3D modeling. TC comes across as a fckng btch, IMO--quit fckng whining.mrfrosty151986
Swearing and insults in a single post? I must of hit a nerve... :lol:

I'm not insulting you, personally. I'm simply pointing out how your post comes across.
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#30 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

You should learn what parallex occlusion mapping is.A lot of PC games use it too.

They are flat textures that appear 3D when looked at it head on. On a really steep angle they look flat. Tessellations are replacing PoM. If Sony and Microsoft are smart, they'll put a decent tessellation unit in the next gen consoles so that console games can take advantage of it.

To anybody who thinks this is just "console tricks", you are extremely wrong and ignorant. Crysis 1 and 2 use PoM heavily as well as STALKER. STALKER really abuses the crap out of PoM. Brick walls and brick paved roads are actually flat textures with PoM.

mrfrosty151986

POM in stalker looks fine and in many ways looks better then the tessellated walls in Crysis 2...

PoM does look fine, if you don't veiw the edges of the objects where PoM is applied too (then you can see how the surface is flat and the PoM simulates depth, but that's it).

Here's a great example. Notice on the bottom left picture the wall's corner is flat compared to the tessellated one on the bottom right. (View it in it's full size to see this the best)

ParallaxDemo.jpg

STALKER applies some pretty intense PoM while Crytek went a lot less liberal with the tessellations.

PoM costs more to run though. Tessellations are better than PoM in every way. You just need to have the hardware to run the tessellations. The Xbox 360 has a weak tessellations unit. OpenGL supports tessellations now too. I would expect the PS4 and next xbox to have a tessellation unit (they are cheap now).

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mrfrosty151986

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#31 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

Wait, you're really looking for tessellation in PS3 games?

:lol:

nameless12345
Who said that? :|
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#32 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 37752 Posts

TC just fired'em up....

3pcfi0.jpg

But yeah, overrated it is. :P

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#33 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

You should learn what parallex occlusion mapping is.A lot of PC games use it too.

They are flat textures that appear 3D when looked at it head on. On a really steep angle they look flat. Tessellations are replacing PoM. If Sony and Microsoft are smart, they'll put a decent tessellation unit in the next gen consoles so that console games can take advantage of it.

To anybody who thinks this is just "console tricks", you are extremely wrong and ignorant. Crysis 1 and 2 use PoM heavily as well as STALKER. STALKER really abuses the crap out of PoM. Brick walls and brick paved roads are actually flat texutres with PoM.

Wasdie

POM in stalker looks fine and in many ways looks better then the tessellated walls in Crysis 2...

PoM does look fine, if you don't veiw the edges of the objects where PoM is applied too (then you can see how the surface is flat and the PoM simulats depth, but that's it).

Here's a great example. Notice on the bottom left picture the wall's corner is flat compared to the tessellated one on the bottom right. (View it in it's full size to see this the best)

STALKER applies some pretty intense PoM while Crytek went a lot less liberal with the tesselations.

PoM costs more to run though. Tessellations are better than PoM in every way. You just need to have the hardware to run the tesellations. The Xbox 360 has a weak tessellations unit. OpenGL supports tessellations now too. I would expect the PS4 and next xbox to have a tessellation unit (they are cheap now).

I agree with tessellation being better then POM in every way but from a performance point of view POM is very very cheap and on slower cards is much easier to run then tessellation.
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#34 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] POM in stalker looks fine and in many ways looks better then the tessellated walls in Crysis 2...mrfrosty151986

PoM does look fine, if you don't veiw the edges of the objects where PoM is applied too (then you can see how the surface is flat and the PoM simulats depth, but that's it).

Here's a great example. Notice on the bottom left picture the wall's corner is flat compared to the tessellated one on the bottom right. (View it in it's full size to see this the best)

STALKER applies some pretty intense PoM while Crytek went a lot less liberal with the tesselations.

PoM costs more to run though. Tessellations are better than PoM in every way. You just need to have the hardware to run the tesellations. The Xbox 360 has a weak tessellations unit. OpenGL supports tessellations now too. I would expect the PS4 and next xbox to have a tessellation unit (they are cheap now).

I agree with tessellation being better then POM in every way but from a performance point of view POM is very very cheap and on slower cards is much easier to run then tessellation.

Actually PoM is not very cheap. It's quite expensive compared to tessellations. The only thing is that you don't need a special unit on your GPU to run PoM.

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#35 hippiesanta
Member since 2005 • 10301 Posts
someone cried in silence since last year VGA result ..... ain't that right MrFrosty151986?
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#36 platniumgamer
Member since 2011 • 3960 Posts

Low standards.

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mrfrosty151986

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#37 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

PoM does look fine, if you don't veiw the edges of the objects where PoM is applied too (then you can see how the surface is flat and the PoM simulats depth, but that's it).

Here's a great example. Notice on the bottom left picture the wall's corner is flat compared to the tessellated one on the bottom right. (View it in it's full size to see this the best)

STALKER applies some pretty intense PoM while Crytek went a lot less liberal with the tesselations.

PoM costs more to run though. Tessellations are better than PoM in every way. You just need to have the hardware to run the tesellations. The Xbox 360 has a weak tessellations unit. OpenGL supports tessellations now too. I would expect the PS4 and next xbox to have a tessellation unit (they are cheap now).

Wasdie

I agree with tessellation being better then POM in every way but from a performance point of view POM is very very cheap and on slower cards is much easier to run then tessellation.

Actually PoM is not very cheap. It's quite expensive compared to tessellations. The only thing is that you don't need a special unit on your GPU to run PoM.

I've turned POM on and off in Crysis and STALKER in the past and I only gained, literally, a couple of FPS... You can go crazy with the amount of steps usd in POM ( Steps determine the quality ) and really bring GPU's crashing down, however running correctly the performance cost is very low. It's also good to see hat Crytek have made a new 'Pixel Accurate' POM that can receive shadows, they had to create this new version as they were not happy with the tessellation performance in CryEngine 3
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#38 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts
someone cried in silence since last year VGA result ..... ain't that right MrFrosty151986?hippiesanta
Dude I game on a very high end PC.... my reason for crying would be exactly what? That I have better graphics in every way?
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#39 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
Still looks better than all 360 exclusives combined.
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#40 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

But then get EVEN closer, and you'll see...

[spoiler] JKCkH.jpg [/spoiler]

Ly_the_Fairy

lol

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#41 hippiesanta
Member since 2005 • 10301 Posts
[QUOTE="hippiesanta"]someone cried in silence since last year VGA result ..... ain't that right MrFrosty151986?mrfrosty151986
Dude I game on a very high end PC.... my reason for crying would be exactly what? That I have better graphics in every way?

too bad it doesn't deliver ....
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#42 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

I've turned POM on and off in Crysis and STALKER in the past and I only gained, literally, a couple of FPS... You can go crazy with the amount of steps usd in POM ( Steps determine the quality ) and really bring GPU's crashing down, however running correctly the performance cost is very low. It's also good to see hat Crytek have made a new 'Pixel Accurate' POM that can receive shadows, they had to create this new version as they were not happy with the tessellation performance in CryEngine 3mrfrosty151986

The same amount of tessellations to replace that PoM would cost less. It just would. PoM is more expensive. Relatively it's not that expensive, but tessellations are still less expensive.

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#43 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts
[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"][QUOTE="hippiesanta"]someone cried in silence since last year VGA result ..... ain't that right MrFrosty151986?hippiesanta
Dude I game on a very high end PC.... my reason for crying would be exactly what? That I have better graphics in every way?

too bad it doesn't deliver ....

Delivers well above consoles pal... let me know when you know what anti-aliasing is :lol:
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#44 AdobeArtist  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25184 Posts

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Uhhh yeah, most games use a texture fill on large flat surfaces. What? You actually expected a pattern of hundreds of bricks to be that many polygonal renders for each and every brick?

There isn't a facepalm big enough for this one :roll: :|

Wasdie

With tessellations those flat walls become nothing but tons of polygons. But that's the point of tessellations. Millions of polygons, very little performance hit.

Tessellations are better than PoM because they don't just simulate depth, they are physical polygons. A tessellation unit can run millions of tessellations easily allowing you to throw 100k polys on a wall with no performance hit. Actually you gain performanceby replacing PoM textures withtessellations as PoM requires some pretty math heavy stuff that has to run through the pipeline instead of rendering on the dedicated unit.

Ok, now it was my understanding that the reason devs used texture renders with added lighting effects to simulate a surface, was that more polygons resulted in more number crunching that in turn strains the CPU/GPU. Fewer polygons are preferrable, where texture renders are used to simulate uneven surfaces.

So how do tesselations which is comprised of even more polys, end up being more resource efficient than fewer polys with texture renders?

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#45 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

Ok, now it was my understanding that the reason devs used texture renders with added lighting effects to simulate a surface, was that more polygons resulted in more number crunching that in turn strains the CPU/GPU. Fewer polygons are preferrable, where texture renders are used to simulate uneven surfaces.

So how do tesselations which is comprised of even more polys, end up being more resource efficient than fewer polys with texture renders?

AdobeArtist

Tessellations are not normal polygons run through the GPU's pipeline. They are a different algorithm run through special hardware that is built for cramming millions of polygons really quickly. Tessellations are not run through the pipeline like standard polys so the GPU does less work there. Thus you get more surfaces for way less resources with tessellations.

PoM was used to reduce the amount of polys and free up the renderer before they had a tessellation unit that could cram millions of seemingly unecessary polygons.

Both PoM and tessellations are going to be faster than just having very high res meshes over everthing and cramming those calculations down the pipeline.

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1080pOnly

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#46 1080pOnly
Member since 2009 • 2216 Posts

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Uhhh yeah, most games use a texture fill on large flat surfaces. What? You actually expected a pattern of hundreds of bricks to be that many polygonal renders for each and every brick?

There isn't a facepalm big enough for this one :roll: :|

AdobeArtist

With tessellations those flat walls become nothing but tons of polygons. But that's the point of tessellations. Millions of polygons, very little performance hit.

Tessellations are better than PoM because they don't just simulate depth, they are physical polygons. A tessellation unit can run millions of tessellations easily allowing you to throw 100k polys on a wall with no performance hit. Actually you gain performanceby replacing PoM textures withtessellations as PoM requires some pretty math heavy stuff that has to run through the pipeline instead of rendering on the dedicated unit.

Ok, now it was my understanding that the reason devs used texture renders with added lighting effects to simulate a surface, was that more polygons resulted in more number crunching that in turn strains the CPU/GPU. Fewer polygons are preferrable, where texture renders are used to simulate uneven surfaces.

So how do tesselations which is comprised of even more polys, end up being more resource efficient than fewer polys with texture renders?

My guess, not working in this particular field, is that tesselations run on specific hardware dedicated to doing just that. If you have the correct hardware the overhead is lower. I could be wrong though.

Edit: *See above, I'll shut-up, wasn't too far wrong though :P*.

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mrfrosty151986

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#47 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

[QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"]I've turned POM on and off in Crysis and STALKER in the past and I only gained, literally, a couple of FPS... You can go crazy with the amount of steps usd in POM ( Steps determine the quality ) and really bring GPU's crashing down, however running correctly the performance cost is very low. It's also good to see hat Crytek have made a new 'Pixel Accurate' POM that can receive shadows, they had to create this new version as they were not happy with the tessellation performance in CryEngine 3Wasdie

The same amount of tessellations to replace that PoM would cost less. It just would. PoM is more expensive. Relatively it's not that expensive, but tessellations are still less expensive.

Depends on each card and the tessellation performance required, some mid-range cards might not have the tessellation performance to run it at an acceptable frame rate but might have the spare shader performance to run POM.
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ristactionjakso

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#48 ristactionjakso
Member since 2011 • 6118 Posts

Dude, KZ3 and Crysis graphics are the best on any console. Uncharted is good, but not the best.

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bobbetybob

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#49 bobbetybob
Member since 2005 • 19370 Posts
You have no idea how normal maps work do you?
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#50 hippiesanta
Member since 2005 • 10301 Posts

[QUOTE="hippiesanta"][QUOTE="mrfrosty151986"] Dude I game on a very high end PC.... my reason for crying would be exactly what? That I have better graphics in every way?mrfrosty151986
too bad it doesn't deliver ....

Delivers well above consoles pal... let me know when you know what anti-aliasing is :lol:

don't have too, I played games b4 u even born:twisted: