Reggie says Third Parties Dont Get it

"Nintendo of America president and COO Reggie Fils-Aime has explained that third party publishers are failing to deliver their best content for the Wii because they don't fully understand the console itself.

Speaking to Forbes, Fils-Aime conceded that the Wii hosts a range of third-party titles which, with a few exceptions, largely do not exemplify quality software for the platform. The reason for this, he says, is that certain developers and publishers still don't 'get' the Wii's design philosophy.

"I will be able to say our licensees 'get it' when their very best content is on our platform," he says. "And with very few exceptions today, that's not the case."

Some observers note that a shortage of compelling third-party software has been a blight of a number of Nintendo TV consoles across the years, such as the GameCube and N64, with Nintendo's own output traditionally showcasing what those consoles can offer to a consumer."

Source: http://www.edge-online.com/news/fils-aime-third-parties-don%E2%80%99t-%E2%80%9Cget-it%E2%80%9D

dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.Fizzman

What's the point of putting colorful, artistic games like de Blob, Valkyria Chronicles, and Viva Pinata on a system where only latchkey teenagers with too much adrenaline and moronic frat boys want to kill things?  See, I can play the system stereotype game too!  I do feel dirty now typing something that narrow minded.

I do wonder if Reggie along with the rest of Nintendo have considered, oh, I don't know, reaching out to a few third party developers about using the system?  Perhaps helping them along with concepts?  They have great first party games, and quite a few gems in the third party department, but it could be so much better.

When I see the man who created the master piece Super Mario Galaxy waste his efforts on Wii Music while also seeing that Disaster Day of Crisis may not come out in the U.S coupled with the fact that we don't know who Retro Studiios is doing, with the addition of not getting anything exciting for Christmas.

I say Reggie is right in the same boat with the rest of the 3rd Parties. 

dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.Fizzman

Because that's not true at all. Dev's think that, but the demographics are totally diffrent. 

It's not that they don't get it, it's just that they

I heard something today which basically awnseres this question.

I was t work today and 2 women were talking, one says "I just got wii fit a few days ago for the wii, its really good and my husband likes it"

And there we have it, middle aged women, thats what nintendos attracting, well they said they were creating a new market.

Middle aged woman... violence...

You just cant put those two things in the same sentence really can you? :|

 

 

"Nintendo of America president and COO Reggie Fils-Aime has explained that third party publishers are failing to deliver their best content for the Wii because they don't fully understand the console itself.

Speaking to Forbes, Fils-Aime conceded that the Wii hosts a range of third-party titles which, with a few exceptions, largely do not exemplify quality software for the platform. The reason for this, he says, is that certain developers and publishers still don't 'get' the Wii's design philosophy.

"I will be able to say our licensees 'get it' when their very best content is on our platform," he says. "And with very few exceptions today, that's not the case."

Some observers note that a shortage of compelling third-party software has been a blight of a number of Nintendo TV consoles across the years, such as the GameCube and N64, with Nintendo's own output traditionally showcasing what those consoles can offer to a consumer."

 

Source: http://www.edge-online.com/news/fils-aime-third-parties-don%E2%80%99t-%E2%80%9Cget-it%E2%80%9D

Kratos_OMEGA

That's exactly what I've been thinking for the past year.

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.Nirron

What's the point of putting colorful, artistic games like de Blob, Valkyria Chronicles, and Viva Pinata on a system where only latchkey teenagers with too much adrenaline and moronic frat boys want to kill things?  See, I can play the system stereotype game too!  I do feel dirty now typing something that narrow minded.

I do wonder if Reggie along with the rest of Nintendo have considered, oh, I don't know, reaching out to a few third party developers about using the system?  Perhaps helping them along with concepts?  They have great first party games, and quite a few gems in the third party department, but it could be so much better.

They have.  Before the Wii launched, Reggie was at Take Two HQ talking to them about the system and asking them to put GTA on the Wii.  Nintendo has gone to GDC to talk to developers and even Miyamoto has gone to several devs to give them help on their games.

What else are they supposed to do?  3rd party devs just aren't putting their best teams towards making games for the Wii.  

Middle aged woman... violence...

You just cant put those two things in the same sentence really can you? :|

NinjaMunkey01

->Insert PMS or Menopause joke here

I believe that 3rd party developers believe that Wii owners don't expect much out of their games, in other words very high Q games. This is why they put very little effort into their games. Every system has its level of acceptable games. There is also the fact that third party developers feel like their games will sell really bad when put against nintendo games. Heck, no more heroes only sold 250K and got a 9.0, Wairo ware which can be finished within one day sold 2.5Million. Even the game 50 cent sold 1.5M and it was just released within the USA.zaku101

No More Heroes sold 400k worldwide and was Suda 51's best selling game ever.  Please stop talking out of your behind.

[QUOTE="NinjaMunkey01"]

Middle aged woman... violence...

You just cant put those two things in the same sentence really can you? :|

fugwit

ok... if you say so...

What Reggie speaks here is truth.

For the most part, third parties just don't try on the Wii. If we had more developers putting an effort into their Wii games like Suda 51 did with No More Heroes, or Treyarch did with World at War (it looks really good for a Wii game), then maybe the Wii would have a third party line-up to match it's first party offerings.

Though to be fair, this Christmas Nintendo is in the same boat as third parties when it comes to quality titles being released.

[QUOTE="Nirron"]

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.Zhengi

What's the point of putting colorful, artistic games like de Blob, Valkyria Chronicles, and Viva Pinata on a system where only latchkey teenagers with too much adrenaline and moronic frat boys want to kill things?  See, I can play the system stereotype game too!  I do feel dirty now typing something that narrow minded.

I do wonder if Reggie along with the rest of Nintendo have considered, oh, I don't know, reaching out to a few third party developers about using the system?  Perhaps helping them along with concepts?  They have great first party games, and quite a few gems in the third party department, but it could be so much better.

They have.  Before the Wii launched, Reggie was at Take Two HQ talking to them about the system and asking them to put GTA on the Wii.  Nintendo has gone to GDC to talk to developers and even Miyamoto has gone to several devs to give them help on their games.

What else are they supposed to do?  3rd party devs just aren't putting their best teams towards making games for the Wii.  

Ah ok, well, then I guess I can't say much else to fault them.  If they're actually talking to some developers, and they aren't getting anything, I guess the only thing I might critcize them for is somewhat of a lack of quality control. Banning anything branded Data Design Interactive and Popcorn Arcade would be a good start.

reggie is an idiot....ever since he refused to release the awesome game called disast day of crisis.

what an ass.

[QUOTE="zaku101"]I believe that 3rd party developers believe that Wii owners don't expect much out of their games, in other words very high Q games. This is why they put very little effort into their games. Every system has its level of acceptable games. There is also the fact that third party developers feel like their games will sell really bad when put against nintendo games. Heck, no more heroes only sold 250K and got a 9.0, Wairo ware which can be finished within one day sold 2.5Million. Even the game 50 cent sold 1.5M and it was just released within the USA.Zhengi

No More Heroes sold 400k worldwide and was Suda 51's best selling game ever.  Please stop talking out of your behind.

Well it's actually 360K, my bad. I tried remembering it off my head the last time I looked at it. But that has to be the lowest sales ever for a 9.0 game. 50Cent a 4.8 game sold 1.5Million and it was only released in the USA unlike no more heroes.

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

[QUOTE="zaku101"]I believe that 3rd party developers believe that Wii owners don't expect much out of their games, in other words very high Q games. This is why they put very little effort into their games. Every system has its level of acceptable games. There is also the fact that third party developers feel like their games will sell really bad when put against nintendo games. Heck, no more heroes only sold 250K and got a 9.0, Wairo ware which can be finished within one day sold 2.5Million. Even the game 50 cent sold 1.5M and it was just released within the USA.zaku101

No More Heroes sold 400k worldwide and was Suda 51's best selling game ever.  Please stop talking out of your behind.

Well it's actually 360K, my bad. But that has to be the lowest sales ever for a 9.0 game. 50Cent a 4.8 game sold 1.5Million and it was only released in the USA unlike no more heroes.

Best selling Suda 51 game ever!  That includes all the games that he released on the PS2, a console that has an install base that is 3-4 times bigger than the Wii's install base.  That is impressive.

Reggie has been saying basically nobody gets Nintendo anymore, 3rd partys don't get them, game site editors dont get them even gamers dont get Nintendo anymore apparently, when somebody claims its the rest of the world thats wrong its a safe bet they need to re-examine themselves shall we say...SapSacPrime

How is the rest of the world saying that they're wrong?  The Wii is the most accepted console in the world right now as evidenced by the sales.  It's more like the devs and gamers don't understand what the rest of the world wants.

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.Nirron

What's the point of putting colorful, artistic games like de Blob, Valkyria Chronicles, and Viva Pinata on a system where only latchkey teenagers with too much adrenaline and moronic frat boys want to kill things?  See, I can play the system stereotype game too!  I do feel dirty now typing something that narrow minded.

I do wonder if Reggie along with the rest of Nintendo have considered, oh, I don't know, reaching out to a few third party developers about using the system?  Perhaps helping them along with concepts?  They have great first party games, and quite a few gems in the third party department, but it could be so much better.

 Why should they do that? nintendo have already provided templates to demonstrate how to do alot fo things on wii, from a FPS to a golf game. they did it with their own games. they have shown that a) its doable B) it works well when done right and C) theres nothing wrong with the wii thats stopping them from doing it. what more can they do? make the game for them? hell last gen they even gave some 3rd parties access to their own IPs and they just mucked em up mostly (starfox adventures especially was masaquered last gen...howevert fzero GX was ace...sega really delivered with that).

i agree with reggie on this one. there not making wii games..there making 360 and PS3 games and trying to clobber that design philosophy onto the wii. its like trying to make a PS3 game run on a 360 without properly porting it..the game will fall apart. 3rd parties have failed to learn that it wont work, it doesent work and it will never work. the game just falls to pieces, every time, without fail.

but, and heres the really sad thing, devs have completly missed the platform where its design philosophies will fit...mostly. afterall 3rd parties wouldnt want to get the leg out and start building new ideas from scratch now would they? cant go makign a new rule book of game design..thats silly talk. but yeah. the PC. a RTS. DUH! u dont necessarily need the latest and greatest tech for a RTS. a game like warcraft 3 would be great on the wii. i am astonished that not a single dev has even tried to make a RTS on the wii...really i *face palm* when i think of it. basic common sense. there finally makign some point and click adventure games...finally. not rocket science. what about a game like freelancer. could use the wiimote and nunchuck to great effect and provide more depth than most next gen games can dream of.

really...3rd parties are just shocking with not just their complete lack of imagination (all platoforms have that problem) but their complete lack of just thinking something through on wii. there asking all the wrong questions like "how do i make this game work on wii?". they should be asking "what would work on wii?".

ninty cant be held responsibe for that just like MS or sony cant be help responsible for 3rd parties going multiplat and exclusives going out the window. its not something they can control.

nintendo doesnt get it.

Maybe if you release a console with the hardware expected by gamers and developers, devs. and gamers would both profit, The thing is that its like a developer making a game for wii is like telling a taxi cab driver in new york that he cant drive a cab anymore he has to deliver people on horse back 

[QUOTE="SapSacPrime"]Reggie has been saying basically nobody gets Nintendo anymore, 3rd partys don't get them, game site editors dont get them even gamers dont get Nintendo anymore apparently, when somebody claims its the rest of the world thats wrong its a safe bet they need to re-examine themselves shall we say...Zhengi

How is the rest of the world saying that they're wrong?  The Wii is the most accepted console in the world right now as evidenced by the sales.  It's more like the devs and gamers don't understand what the rest of the world wants.

The rest of the world was a figure of speech :| I wouldn't call the percentage of Wii owners the rest of the world. But Wii owners are getting games suited to the Wii or a flash player on a PC, traditional gamers are getting a 360/PS3 everybody is happy except Nintendo because they thought 3rd parties would be falling over themselves to release games for the Wii (as did I early on I must admit), but they are not and this does this look like it will change.

The Wii is a big risk to 3rd parties, when they see crap like carnaval and Wii music selling through the roof I would imagine they would think very few core gamers own a Wii, and it is a safe bet they are correct.

Well... every american games were really bad on the Wii. On the other hand, the japanese devs seem to know where to go.

At least, Capcom, Atlus and Nintendo are making great games on the Wii.

He's not wrong. Both RE games on the Wii sold over a million copies. NMH and Zack and Wikki both put up very respectable numbers. When 3rd party devs put up good games generally they sell very well. There are exceptions like Okami (but that didn't sell on PS2 either which leads me to believe that the entire world is stupid, not just Wii owners), but overall when 3rd parties take the time to put a known franchise on the Wii it does excellent.

Capcom in particular confuses the hell out of me. They had a lot of success with the Wii during the first year and a half. Their Wii releases met and usually beat their expectations, and then. . . they started more REmakes for Japan and did nothing else. WTF??

I think part of the reason for the lack of solid support is developers following Nintendo's own lead. When a first party isn't supplying their own console with games directed at the hardcore audience, it's reasonable to assume that 3rd parties would follow their direction. Hopefully Nintendo will once again take the lead and show how games like Punchout, Kid Icarus, etc. can put up strong sales numbers just like Brawl, Galaxy, Zelda, and Kart did.

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

[QUOTE="SapSacPrime"]Reggie has been saying basically nobody gets Nintendo anymore, 3rd partys don't get them, game site editors dont get them even gamers dont get Nintendo anymore apparently, when somebody claims its the rest of the world thats wrong its a safe bet they need to re-examine themselves shall we say...SapSacPrime

How is the rest of the world saying that they're wrong?  The Wii is the most accepted console in the world right now as evidenced by the sales.  It's more like the devs and gamers don't understand what the rest of the world wants.

The rest of the world was a figure of speech :| I wouldn't call the percentage of Wii owners the rest of the world. But Wii owners are getting games suited to the Wii or a flash player on a PC, traditional gamers are getting a 360/PS3 everybody is happy except Nintendo because they thought 3rd parties would be falling over themselves to release games for the Wii (as did I early on I must admit), but they are not and this does this look like it will change.

The Wii is a big risk to 3rd parties, when they see crap like carnaval and Wii music selling through the roof I would imagine they would think very few core gamers own a Wii, and it is a safe bet they are correct.

What the hell are you talking about? The best selling games on Wii are SMG, MK and SSBB... I don't call these games cheap flash games.

Funny to see that Shinji Mikami first game is exclusive to the Wii... Mad World is looking more insane than anything I can think of on ps3 and 360.

By the way, I got a PC so I played all the big games since the only safe way for devs when developing on ps3 and 360 is to release their games on PC to maximize sales.

[QUOTE="Nirron"]

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.osan0

What's the point of putting colorful, artistic games like de Blob, Valkyria Chronicles, and Viva Pinata on a system where only latchkey teenagers with too much adrenaline and moronic frat boys want to kill things?  See, I can play the system stereotype game too!  I do feel dirty now typing something that narrow minded.

I do wonder if Reggie along with the rest of Nintendo have considered, oh, I don't know, reaching out to a few third party developers about using the system?  Perhaps helping them along with concepts?  They have great first party games, and quite a few gems in the third party department, but it could be so much better.

 Why should they do that? nintendo have already provided templates to demonstrate how to do alot fo things on wii, from a FPS to a golf game. they did it with their own games. they have shown that a) its doable B) it works well when done right and C) theres nothing wrong with the wii thats stopping them from doing it. what more can they do? make the game for them? hell last gen they even gave some 3rd parties access to their own IPs and they just mucked em up mostly (starfox adventures especially was masaquered last gen...howevert fzero GX was ace...sega really delivered with that).

i agree with reggie on this one. there not making wii games..there making 360 and PS3 games and trying to clobber that design philosophy onto the wii. its like trying to make a PS3 game run on a 360 without properly porting it..the game will fall apart. 3rd parties have failed to learn that it wont work, it doesent work and it will never work. the game just falls to pieces, every time, without fail.

but, and heres the really sad thing, devs have completly missed the platform where its design philosophies will fit...mostly. afterall 3rd parties wouldnt want to get the leg out and start building new ideas from scratch now would they? cant go makign a new rule book of game design..thats silly talk. but yeah. the PC. a RTS. DUH! u dont necessarily need the latest and greatest tech for a RTS. a game like warcraft 3 would be great on the wii. i am astonished that not a single dev has even tried to make a RTS on the wii...really i *face palm* when i think of it. basic common sense. there finally makign some point and click adventure games...finally. not rocket science. what about a game like freelancer. could use the wiimote and nunchuck to great effect and provide more depth than most next gen games can dream of.

really...3rd parties are just shocking with not just their complete lack of imagination (all platoforms have that problem) but their complete lack of just thinking something through on wii. there asking all the wrong questions like "how do i make this game work on wii?". they should be asking "what would work on wii?".

ninty cant be held responsibe for that just like MS or sony cant be help responsible for 3rd parties going multiplat and exclusives going out the window. its not something they can control.

When I see the man who created the master piece Super Mario Galaxy waste his efforts on Wii Music while also seeing that Disaster Day of Crisis may not come out in the U.S coupled with the fact that we don't know who Retro Studiios is doing, with the addition of not getting anything exciting for Christmas.

I say Reggie is right in the same boat with the rest of the 3rd Parties. 

Blackbond

What the hell are you talking about? The best selling games on Wii are SMG, MK and SSBB... I don't call these games cheap flash games.

Funny to see that Shinji Mikami first game is exclusive to the Wii... Mad World is looking more insane than anything I can think of on ps3 and 360.

By the way, I got a PC so I played all the big games since the only safe way for devs when developing on ps3 and 360 is to release their games on PC to maximize sales.

Redgarl

SMG, MK and Brawl are all first party, we all know Nintendo deliver the goods that is yet another thing 3rd party's have cowered away from for years. I was referring to the god awful 3rd party efforts on the Wii, many of which are out done by flash games :|.

By the way, that PC you have is the reason you played the big games which is my complaint, you need one more system and I don't care which it is either way the Wii is not a stand alone system.

I think 3rd party devs get it, they just don't want to make their games on the Wii (well most don't). 

It's not that they don't know HOW to, they just don't WANT to.

[QUOTE="Nirron"]

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.osan0

What's the point of putting colorful, artistic games like de Blob, Valkyria Chronicles, and Viva Pinata on a system where only latchkey teenagers with too much adrenaline and moronic frat boys want to kill things?  See, I can play the system stereotype game too!  I do feel dirty now typing something that narrow minded.

I do wonder if Reggie along with the rest of Nintendo have considered, oh, I don't know, reaching out to a few third party developers about using the system?  Perhaps helping them along with concepts?  They have great first party games, and quite a few gems in the third party department, but it could be so much better.

 Why should they do that? nintendo have already provided templates to demonstrate how to do alot fo things on wii, from a FPS to a golf game. they did it with their own games. they have shown that a) its doable B) it works well when done right and C) theres nothing wrong with the wii thats stopping them from doing it. what more can they do? make the game for them? hell last gen they even gave some 3rd parties access to their own IPs and they just mucked em up mostly (starfox adventures especially was masaquered last gen...howevert fzero GX was ace...sega really delivered with that).

i agree with reggie on this one. there not making wii games..there making 360 and PS3 games and trying to clobber that design philosophy onto the wii. its like trying to make a PS3 game run on a 360 without properly porting it..the game will fall apart. 3rd parties have failed to learn that it wont work, it doesent work and it will never work. the game just falls to pieces, every time, without fail.

but, and heres the really sad thing, devs have completly missed the platform where its design philosophies will fit...mostly. afterall 3rd parties wouldnt want to get the leg out and start building new ideas from scratch now would they? cant go makign a new rule book of game design..thats silly talk. but yeah. the PC. a RTS. DUH! u dont necessarily need the latest and greatest tech for a RTS. a game like warcraft 3 would be great on the wii. i am astonished that not a single dev has even tried to make a RTS on the wii...really i *face palm* when i think of it. basic common sense. there finally makign some point and click adventure games...finally. not rocket science. what about a game like freelancer. could use the wiimote and nunchuck to great effect and provide more depth than most next gen games can dream of.

really...3rd parties are just shocking with not just their complete lack of imagination (all platoforms have that problem) but their complete lack of just thinking something through on wii. there asking all the wrong questions like "how do i make this game work on wii?". they should be asking "what would work on wii?".

ninty cant be held responsibe for that just like MS or sony cant be help responsible for 3rd parties going multiplat and exclusives going out the window. its not something they can control.

I actually had no idea they had provided templates and what not.  I already somewhat retracted my statement when zhengi corrected me, but thanks for completely obliterating my doubt.  I actually agree with what you wrote; well formed comparison of what's been wrong with developers on the Wii.  Said it better than Reggie did in his comments

Here's something I seriously don't understand. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this...

Ok, Nintendo has ALWAYS released handhelds that are inferior in technology than other handhelds. Yet, 3rd parties have NEVER had a problem with Nintendo's handhelds having inferior technology than other handhelds. 3rd parties have made great games on Gameboy, GBA, Nintendo DS. Nintendo DS is spanking PSP in sales and getting a ton of great games. DS has lesser graphics, lesser tech, etc compared to PSP.

So then...WHY in the world is it such a big issue with 3rd parties that Wii has inferior technology inside it compared to PS3 and 360? Wii is outselling the competition big time, but 3rd party devs still won't take it seriously. They sure took Gameboy, GBA, DS seriously...all with inferior tech. Not so with Wii. It is like a double standard issue. I guess it is fine for Nintendo handhelds to have worse graphics, sound, etc compared to the competition. But apparently it is NOT ok for a Nintendo console to have inferior tech compared to the competition.

So, explain that logic to me. Why is their a double standard? Why is it perfectly fine for DS to be inferior to PSP in tech and devs will take DS very seriously? And why is it so horrible to devs that Wii is inferior in tech to the competition? Makes no sense to me.

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

[QUOTE="SapSacPrime"]Reggie has been saying basically nobody gets Nintendo anymore, 3rd partys don't get them, game site editors dont get them even gamers dont get Nintendo anymore apparently, when somebody claims its the rest of the world thats wrong its a safe bet they need to re-examine themselves shall we say...SapSacPrime

How is the rest of the world saying that they're wrong?  The Wii is the most accepted console in the world right now as evidenced by the sales.  It's more like the devs and gamers don't understand what the rest of the world wants.

The rest of the world was a figure of speech :| I wouldn't call the percentage of Wii owners the rest of the world. But Wii owners are getting games suited to the Wii or a flash player on a PC, traditional gamers are getting a 360/PS3 everybody is happy except Nintendo because they thought 3rd parties would be falling over themselves to release games for the Wii (as did I early on I must admit), but they are not and this does this look like it will change.

The Wii is a big risk to 3rd parties, when they see crap like carnaval and Wii music selling through the roof I would imagine they would think very few core gamers own a Wii, and it is a safe bet they are correct.

So you're saying the rest of the world are devs and gamers then? :)

As for 3rd parties, they're already admitting they made a mistake in ignoring the Wii.  EA has stated as much and has started more development for it.  Activision Blizzard made the most revenue during the last fiscal quarter on the Wii (based on consoles).  Also, what has convinced you that it's a safe bet that they are correct?  Is it the fact that companies like EA has lost $310 million or that companies like THQ are closing down studios?  I'm just curious to know as to how you think that might be a safe bet.

So, explain that logic to me. Why is their a double standard? Why is it perfectly fine for DS to be inferior to PSP in tech and devs will take DS very seriously? And why is it so horrible to devs that Wii is inferior in tech to the competition? Makes no sense to me.

AvIdGaMeR444

I can't really explain it, but I can offer up a little first hand story that at least suggests a theory.

I used to know the guys at Ensemble Studios back when they were still a new company and had just released Age of Empires II. A lot of the guys really prided themselves on making the best looking, most PC pushing game that they could "within reason" meaning they liked to push the envelope as far it could go without going past the current technology (ie. Doom 3). That philosophy is shared from what I've learned of other studios (which admittedly isn't many more).

The Wii doesn't allow developers to do this. Most talented devs like to work on a system that lets them push boundaries. Wii's boundaries have already long been explored. PS3 and 360 still have some ground to break on the other hand. As far as handhelds go, they offer their own set of challenges (cram as much in as you can) so I imagine they still offer a significant challenge in that respect. Plus I suppose when you go into making a handheld game you know you're not going to make a visual masterpiece with realistic physics and control, so a different mindframe is in place when you make one.

I don't know, it's just a theory. But I agree with you overall, it does seem to violate some basic business sense.

So, explain that logic to me. Why is their a double standard? Why is it perfectly fine for DS to be inferior to PSP in tech and devs will take DS very seriously? And why is it so horrible to devs that Wii is inferior in tech to the competition? Makes no sense to me.

AvIdGaMeR444

PSP is doing a good job being an mini inferior PS2 and the DS is doing a better job being a handheld gaming device. Handhelds are not ment to be consoles.  It has nothing to do with graphics really. Handhelds from the beginning where never really about graphics. Heck there are people still playing the gameboys.

DS sells more because it is better at what it is. PSP is a dumbed down PS2 with a crappy analog stick and dead pixels. Lets be honest all the good games on the PSP like Crisis Core? They would of been better off on a gaming console.

More like Nintendo doesn't get it that third parties aren't interested in developing anything worthwhile for their console.

But it's not like Nintedo has ever acepted reality. Even with the almost null third party support for their N64 and GC consoles they always seemed to be on their own reality, so I'd guess it's even worse now with the Wii.

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.Nirron

What's the point of putting colorful, artistic games like de Blob, Valkyria Chronicles, and Viva Pinata on a system where only latchkey teenagers with too much adrenaline and moronic frat boys want to kill things?  See, I can play the system stereotype game too!  I do feel dirty now typing something that narrow minded.

I do wonder if Reggie along with the rest of Nintendo have considered, oh, I don't know, reaching out to a few third party developers about using the system?  Perhaps helping them along with concepts?  They have great first party games, and quite a few gems in the third party department, but it could be so much better.

Didn't Viva Pinata Sell 2 Million copies?

He doesn't get it.Michael324

QFT 

[QUOTE="AvIdGaMeR444"]

So, explain that logic to me. Why is their a double standard? Why is it perfectly fine for DS to be inferior to PSP in tech and devs will take DS very seriously? And why is it so horrible to devs that Wii is inferior in tech to the competition? Makes no sense to me.

Robio_basic

I can't really explain it, but I can offer up a little first hand story that at least suggests a theory.

I used to know the guys at Ensemble Studios back when they were still a new company and had just released Age of Empires II. A lot of the guys really prided themselves on making the best looking, most PC pushing game that they could "within reason" meaning they liked to push the envelope as far it could go without going past the current technology (ie. Doom 3). That philosophy is shared from what I've learned of other studios (which admittedly isn't many more).

The Wii doesn't allow developers to do this. Most talented devs like to work on a system that lets them push boundaries. Wii's boundaries have already long been explored. PS3 and 360 still have some ground to break on the other hand. As far as handhelds go, they offer their own set of challenges (cram as much in as you can) so I imagine they still offer a significant challenge in that respect. Plus I suppose when you go into making a handheld game you know you're not going to make a visual masterpiece with realistic physics and control, so a different mindframe is in place when you make one.

I don't know, it's just a theory. But I agree with you overall, it does seem to violate some basic business sense.

I kind of wonder about that.  I don't really think that the Wii's power has really been pushed yet, at least not by 3rd party devs.  There are definitely great games like SMG that do seem to push the envelope a bit, but I suspect that the power for it hasn't been completed used yet.  

My theory is that companies have a false perception of reality when they believe that they can't compete against Nintendo.  The problem with this perception is that they are already competing against Nintendo whether or not they make games for the Wii.  In the past, they were able to avoid this because Nintendo wasn't the market leader, but this gen, they are with the Wii being the most bought console on the market.  The casual crowd that made games so profitable on the PS2 last gen seemingly are going towards the Wii, so 3rd party devs don't have those casual gamers to help buy their games on those other systems.  Now they are being forced to go to the Wii as that is where a lot of money can be made right now.

So in terms of business sense, it's time that 3rd parties should get some and start making more games in that direction.  It just makes sense especially this holiday season where Nintendo leaves the holiday season wide open for them to really have some hits.

[QUOTE="Nirron"]

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]dev's do get it, but whats the point of putting games with violence, and other mature oriented themes on a system where only 80 year old grandpas, and soccermoms play.Locke562

What's the point of putting colorful, artistic games like de Blob, Valkyria Chronicles, and Viva Pinata on a system where only latchkey teenagers with too much adrenaline and moronic frat boys want to kill things?  See, I can play the system stereotype game too!  I do feel dirty now typing something that narrow minded.

I do wonder if Reggie along with the rest of Nintendo have considered, oh, I don't know, reaching out to a few third party developers about using the system?  Perhaps helping them along with concepts?  They have great first party games, and quite a few gems in the third party department, but it could be so much better.

Didn't Viva Pinata Sell 2 Million copies?

On what planet?