Rant Topic: iPhone 4 vs. Nintendo 3DS

Today, as the title suggests, I'm comparing the 3DS and the iPhone 4. I've heard a few comments that the Resident Evil games and MGS3 on the 3DS look better than anything on the iPhone 4. Let's see if that's true. I'll start by comparing Epic Citadel and the best looking titles for the 3DS. As you can see in the screenshots below, Epic Citadel has fantastic textures as well as normal mapping. The stones appear to pop out of the walls and street and the textures are very clean. Looking at the grass texture, you can see fine blades of grass, clumped dirt, and small pebbles complete with per-pixel effects to highlight them.

Now let's look at the 3DS. You don't need to have the camera pressed against the wall/ground to see that there isn't nearly as much detail. Don't get me wrong, the textures are good, but they pale in comparison to Epic Citadel's. As you can see in these RE and MGS3 screenshots, there isn't much in the way of fine details.

Now let's get away from the textures and actually look at the environments. Epic Citadel has a massive, open, meticulously detailed environment. Taking a look around, it's pretty smooth, too. There's a ton of rocks, cliffs, trees, tents, etc- All of which are well rendered.

There's flags, banners, and trees which blow in the wind. Water falls realistically and flows around obstructions. Rocks are great in number and have enough polygons that they aren't blocky. The cliffs are complex, yet they hold up very well. In fact all round objects in Epic Citadel are surprisingly smooth and even objects that would normally be flat have rounded edges.

I don't have any 3DS screenshots that would give a good enough example of environmental detail, so you'll just have to use the previous ones. Basically, things are pretty well rendered, but some objects are kinda blocky and the textures can are kinda muddy in comparison. For lighting, they both do a pretty good job and I'm not sure who to give it to. Epic Citadel has very natural lighting and employs HDR effects and Resident Evil's lighting is very striking with it's usage of bloom.

There's still more things to compare, but I don't feel like doing so and it wouldn't change the verdict. As you can see, Epic Citadel has significantly better visuals than the current top-of-the-line 3DS games. The level of detail is so high that even if the visuals had to be compromised to add NPC's or whatever, you'd still be left with a game that would be head and shoulders above any 3DS game. Not only that, but the iPhone 4's screen resolution is over 2.5 times greater than both of the 3DS' screens combined. One could argue that the 3DS has 3D to worry about, but as Crytek has demonstrated, if 3D is done correctly, it should have almost no impact on performance. I highly doubt Nintendo would make a powerful handheld then lock off half of it's power for an optional feature. More than likely, they put some good R&D to find a very efficient means of doing 3D. Nintendo may not always make choices that you like, but there's no arguing that they're smart.

tl;dr: the iPhone 4 can output notably higher resolution textures, exponentially more polygons, and in general output better visuals than the 3DS

at over 2.5 times the screen resolution.

Epic Citadel (watch all of it)

Yeah, the iPhone 4 even iPod Touch(gen4) are much more powerful systems than the 3DS. I would be disappointed if the 3DS was $250-300 since the Touch offers much more horsepower than the 3DS for only $229. I still consider the 3DS to be a vastly superior gaming system, I just want a decent pricepoint.

why the hell people considers iphones as gaming system?

why the hell people considers iphones as gaming system?

quebec946

What do u people not understand about PREBAKED!!!!!!!!!!!! idk how many times i have to point this out, but the iphone is NOT capable of Global Illumination. Almost everything in Epic Citadel is prebaked. Its alot like 360/PS3 vs PC. The 360 uses fixed hardware from 2005, but its visuals is comparable to that of the PC. Obviously the PC looks better, but its comparable. With smartphones, devs have to worry about the OS, and background stuff. Epic has to make sure the demo runs on at least the 3GS which has 256mb of ram. They have to leave at least 40% free for the OS then another 30% for possible background procceses. That leaves 30% which is 76mb. thats not that much farther from the 3DS 64mb of ram. Even then people complain that it runs slowly. Some have to restart their phone just to kill all the background apps. With that siad think of the iphone as a PC & the 3DS as a dedicated console. thats enough to run UE3 mobile. The 3DS doesn't have to worry about a large OS hogging everything as i already pointed out. If Apple jsut created a dedicated gaming device with the current specs of the iphone 4 then maybe the situation would be different, but thats not the case.

Well of course the citadel has much better textures...you're talking 512MB of RAM vs. 64MB. That's like going from Xbox to Xbox 360.

Two words. Finger prints. 3DS wins:P

Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added.Merex760

Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added. Same with Rage. I'm sure the 3DS graphics could be bumped up too if they took away all the essentials and left nothing but a map to walk around. This is coming from an iPhone 4 owner. Silly topic.Merex760

Epic Citadel is a tech demo, tech demos always look MUCH better than the actual game. There were no NPCs, no active environments (other than scripted water and flag movements), no physics, no enemies, it was in first person so the character wasn't even modeled because their movement would've made it look worse.

All it took was some very careful designing to make Epic Citadel look great. The framerate chugs in the demo too, was just showing my friend who's obsessed with Apple on my iPhone, he was impressed but we both saw the framerate dropping significantly when there were a couple things on screen.

Also we seem to forget the 3DS is outputting on two screens, one of which is 3-D.

The 3DS is the more powerful system.

[QUOTE="Merex760"]Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added. Same with Rage. I'm sure the 3DS graphics could be bumped up too if they took away all the essentials and left nothing but a map to walk around. This is coming from an iPhone 4 owner. Silly topic.SakusEnvoy

[QUOTE="Merex760"]Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added.windsquid9000

Epic Citadel is a tech demo, tech demos always look MUCH better than the actual game. There were no NPCs, no active environments (other than scripted water and flag movements), no physics, no enemies, it was in first person so the character wasn't even modeled because their movement would've made it look worse.

All it took was some very careful designing to make Epic Citadel look great. The framerate chugs in the demo too, was just showing my friend who's obsessed with Apple on my iPhone, he was impressed but we both saw the framerate dropping significantly when there were a couple things on screen.

Also we seem to forget the 3DS is outputting on two screens, one of which is 3-D.

The 3DS is the more powerful system.

oldkingallant

[QUOTE="oldkingallant"]

Epic Citadel is a tech demo, tech demos always look MUCH better than the actual game. There were no NPCs, no active environments (other than scripted water and flag movements), no physics, no enemies, it was in first person so the character wasn't even modeled because their movement would've made it look worse.

All it took was some very careful designing to make Epic Citadel look great. The framerate chugs in the demo too, was just showing my friend who's obsessed with Apple on my iPhone, he was impressed but we both saw the framerate dropping significantly when there were a couple things on screen.

Also we seem to forget the 3DS is outputting on two screens, one of which is 3-D.

The 3DS is the more powerful system.

windsquid9000

[QUOTE="quebec946"]

why the hell people considers iphones as gaming system?

windsquid9000

[QUOTE="windsquid9000"][QUOTE="Merex760"]Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added.oldkingallant

[QUOTE="oldkingallant"][QUOTE="windsquid9000"] I'm aware of that. Read the last paragraph. The level of detail is not just better than the 3DS, but SIGNIFICANTLY better. Cutting detail to add NPCs/more structures would still leave you with a much better looking game.windsquid9000

[QUOTE="windsquid9000"][QUOTE="quebec946"]

why the hell people considers iphones as gaming system?

oldkingallant

[QUOTE="SakusEnvoy"]

[QUOTE="Merex760"]Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added. Same with Rage. I'm sure the 3DS graphics could be bumped up too if they took away all the essentials and left nothing but a map to walk around. This is coming from an iPhone 4 owner. Silly topic.oldkingallant

What I don't get is the argument people make that Epic said this simply out of a grudge against Nintendo. It seems like a real knee-jerk response from the Nintendo fanbase to just flat out assume Epic is trolling the 3DS for the lolz. In an interview, I recall them gushing about the amount of memory available on the iPhone, as well as having access to up to "16 gigs of flash memory, which is way better, faster memory than what most people have generally on a home PC." Perhaps that is the reasoning behind their statements?

i dont wanna be harsh but iphone games are games you pay that can be found anywhere around the webs for free

Argh.. you do know you can take actual screenshots/screencaptures on the iPhone/iPod Touch by pressing both the Home-button and the Lock-button at the same time, right?

I did read it... but that's a load of crap. I don't think you understand who big a toll things like that take on graphics. Not having dynamic shadows since people don't move, not having any sort of physics since everything is pre-rendered, no action taking place and therefore the visuals onscreen not changing regardless of what you do, and of course the simple fact that rendering a bunch of people on screen takes quite a bit of power. I'm laying on my back with my iPhone 4 I waited in line at 2:30 AM for on my chest... and even I will tell you it will not be as powerful as the 3DS.oldkingallant

It's games are certainly not good enough. I will go through every game and tell you which of them I'd pay $35 for... Done. None. Fine I'll list all the legitimately good ones, no flash-esque games, real games only: Hero of Sparta (AKA downgraded God of War), Zenonia, Plants Vs. Zombies, N.O.V.A., Ragdoll Blaster 2, Castle of Magic, Maple Story: Thief Edition, and Civilization Revolution. I have about 100 games. So out of near 100 there are 8 games worth playing, and I'm being generous putting some of them on there. I have oldkingallant

[QUOTE="oldkingallant"][QUOTE="windsquid9000"] It may not first be a gaming system, but it get's enough support and good enough games that it can be considered one.red12355

[QUOTE="windsquid9000"][QUOTE="quebec946"]

why the hell people considers iphones as gaming system?

oldkingallant

wait, the tech demo dosent even have anything going on on screen o,o

no enemies, no npc, no nothing. This is almost on the level of a rail shooter

What do u people not understand about PREBAKED!!!!!!!!!!!! idk how many times i have to point this out, but the iphone is NOT capable of Global Illumination.

painguy1

Almost all games implement GI through prebaked lightmaps and irradiance volumes. So what's the problem?

3DS has buttons...'nuff said

wait, the tech demo dosent even have anything going on on screen o,o

no enemies, no npc, no nothing. This is almost on the level of a rail shooter

Half-Way

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

wait, the tech demo dosent even have anything going on on screen o,o

no enemies, no npc, no nothing. This is almost on the level of a rail shooter

windsquid9000

allow me to disagree, when they add enemies, npcs, and some real gameplay im actually expecting it to look as good or worse then RE 3Ds

but i agree that we dont know enough about the games yet to give an final conclusion, so my question would be, why would you make a thread on it then? o,o

Too bad Iphone 4 is terrible for games. Even if the 3DS was weaker than it is, I'd still buy it over the Iphone4.

[QUOTE="windsquid9000"][QUOTE="Half-Way"]

wait, the tech demo dosent even have anything going on on screen o,o

no enemies, no npc, no nothing. This is almost on the level of a rail shooter

Half-Way

allow me to disagree, when they add enemies, npcs, and some real gameplay im actually expecting it to look as good or worse then RE 3Ds

but i agree that we dont know enough about the games yet to give an final conclusion, so my question would be, why would you make a thread on it then? o,o

yep...in graphics terms theres no real doubt. the iphone 4 definately mops the floor with the 3DS. more ram, better processors and a more up to date (albeit still very basic) GPU. epic citadel is a bit flattering since it is a tech demo but the fact that it can even run UE speaks volumes. seriously ive said it before and i will say it again...if you want cutting edge mobile tech then dont get a 3DS. itll have nice graphics and itll certainly be a big step over the DS but anything with tegra, the i___ series and probably most android devices offer alot more grunt. i still know which im looking forward to more mind..the 3DS (buying somethiong from apple...the thought makes me feel dirty :P). but im very clear on why....the games. i know its not that powerful and i know the 3D will lose its wow factor pretty quickly (though if devs can think of clever ways to use it then kewl :) ) and i know its features are going to be lacking compared to a phone. but like the DS its going to have crackin games.osan0

Out of the 120 million or so iOS devices out there, only about 3 million of them are Japanese. Whereas out of the 132 million DS's out there, 31 million of them are Japanese. The iPhone is actually the leading smartphone in Japan, which makes it a rare Western success story I guess, but it is far away from challenging the DS or PSP over there.

In America, though, it will be interesting to see which device Western devs favor.

[QUOTE="Merex760"]Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added. Same with Rage. I'm sure the 3DS graphics could be bumped up too if they took away all the essentials and left nothing but a map to walk around. This is coming from an iPhone 4 owner. Silly topic.SakusEnvoy

[QUOTE="SakusEnvoy"]

[QUOTE="Merex760"]Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added. Same with Rage. I'm sure the 3DS graphics could be bumped up too if they took away all the essentials and left nothing but a map to walk around. This is coming from an iPhone 4 owner. Silly topic.King_Dodongo

[QUOTE="painguy1"]

What do u people not understand about PREBAKED!!!!!!!!!!!! idk how many times i have to point this out, but the iphone is NOT capable of Global Illumination.

Teufelhuhn

Almost all games implement GI through prebaked lightmaps and irradiance volumes. So what's the problem?

TC's original post made it seem as if he believes all that stuff was realtime. I used GI as an example

. Also I have to laugh at TC saying maybe I don't grasp how much detail there is :lol:. Maybe I don't grasp it? Yeah it's not like I looked through the whole thing and took tons of screenshots weeks ago, showed one of my friends it at lunch today, and another while I was hanging out at his house...oldkingallant

Who cares how good the Ipod looks when your fingers are covering the entire screen?

[QUOTE="oldkingallant"]. Also I have to laugh at TC saying maybe I don't grasp how much detail there is :lol:. Maybe I don't grasp it? Yeah it's not like I looked through the whole thing and took tons of screenshots weeks ago, showed one of my friends it at lunch today, and another while I was hanging out at his house...windsquid9000

Textures look decent, especially the textures on the big monster worm.

Compare a finisshed ''game'' on a new system that is a glorified movie which you can move around with, with nothing to strain on it's ram, cpu, gpu, NOTHING, except what you are seeing, is shown through OF SCREEN FOOTAGE, compared to a system which has yet to been released and games which are almost a year away from release, which might be in their alpha, by devs who are not known for making the best looking games in REAL SCREENSHOTS.

This thread is a fail, let devs master this 2 years from now and see who is the winner.

Compare a finisshed ''game'' on a new system that is a glorified movie which you can move around with, with nothing to strain on it's ram, cpu, gpu, NOTHING, except what you are seeing, is shown through OF SCREEN FOOTAGE, compared to a system which has yet to been released and games which are almost a year away from release, which might be in their alpha, by devs who are not known for making the best looking games in REAL SCREENSHOTS.

This thread is a fail, let devs master this 2 years from now and see who is the winner.

Sandvichman

^^^^Agreed

You can't compare 3DS screenshots with other systems really, as you need to take into account how the 3DS games will look in 3D.

Also I refuse to consider a device that has no analog stick, d-pad or buttons a gaming system.

What good is an iphone 4 as a gaming system if it dosent even have games that are on par with the ds, psp and the upcoming 3ds library?

epic failed thread

3ds all the way, even ds is better in the market then iphone that it was intended for lol

The Epic game wasn't rendering anything a real game would render. The 3DS games were and were doing so in 3D. The iphone is more powerful but one bull crap epic tech demo doesn't do much to convince me that the iphone 4 is sooo much better graphically. that and it lack buttons so its a piece of crap regardless.

The Epic game wasn't rendering anything a real game would render. The 3DS games were and were doing so in 3D. The iphone is more powerful but one bull crap epic tech demo doesn't do much to convince me that the iphone 4 is sooo much better graphically. that and it lack buttons so its a piece of crap regardless.

ActicEdge

2. As I stated in the OP, the iPhone's retina display is much more strenuous than 3D (unless Nintendo's locking away half the 3DS's power)

3. The tech demo is of an actual game. Here's more footage of it. I think this is one of the rare occasions where "destroys" is an accurate observation.

[QUOTE="Merex760"]Epic Citadel was a tech demo with empty environments. It won't look nearly as good once everything that a normal game has is added.windsquid9000

woah lately SW seethes with worms!