PS3/360 exclusive games graphics comparison will show PS3 blows 360 away.

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Kennysolidsnake

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#1 Kennysolidsnake
Member since 2009 • 1068 Posts

this is in reference to the "Graphics comparison" Gamespot is doing and frankly its a utter joke.. Big deal, the wall looks a little browner on one version over another, how about we truely see who wins this argument by comparing exclusives! lets get real, comparing multiplatform graphics for the same game on the 2 consoles is very redundant.. Sure one version might have sligthly brighter walls and grass, but if you really want to know which console reigns supreme in terms of graphics you need to compare graphics of EXCLUSIVES.

The reason this is so important is becasue with multiplat games devs are forced to not max out either consoles so the game can be the same for all gamers.. With exclusive games this is when Sony and MS really pump out the time and money to maximize the console's potential.. I mean seriously, comparing grass and wall textures on games like Batman AA and AC2 is frankly a joke and small time..

You dont need to compare the same exact game to see which console is really superior in terms of graphics.. Anyone can compare a mutliplat game on both systems and point out grass and walls that might be slightly different colors.. Thats just lame..

How about for a change people compare the graphics of high end 360 exclusives VS high end PS3 exclusives.. I think we should start by comparing Killzone 2 VS Halo 3, its a very fair comparison considering both are flagship AAAE titles from the same genre and are exclusives.. Yea We all know Killzone 2 clearly blows Halo 3 out of the water in terms of graphics.

Next up lets compare Uncharted 2 VS Gears 2.. Yep, Gears 2 while might have slightly better character models, the scope, lush jungle and super smooth graphics easily put Uncharted 2 over the top and easily beats out gears.

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Yankees718

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#2 Yankees718
Member since 2009 • 1033 Posts

Cool! This is coming from the cow that switched to a lemming and now is a cow again. Also you're late.

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savetehhaloz

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#3 savetehhaloz
Member since 2007 • 2373 Posts
If you put both consoles together, you'll see that both of them have their own strengths and flaws. Both consoles are equal in my eyes as the hardware specs are about equal across the board. However, from the developers point of view, the PS3 is architecturally inferior.
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AAllxxjjnn

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#4 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts
They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.
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racing1750

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#5 racing1750
Member since 2010 • 14567 Posts
Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.
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racing1750

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#6 racing1750
Member since 2010 • 14567 Posts
They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.AAllxxjjnn
Very true.
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Kennysolidsnake

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#7 Kennysolidsnake
Member since 2009 • 1068 Posts
If you put both consoles together, you'll see that both of them have their own strengths and flaws. Both consoles are equal in my eyes as the hardware specs are about equal across the board. However, from the developers point of view, the PS3 is architecturally inferior. savetehhaloz
You need to correct that to "the lazy devs perspective its inferior" ok so IW, Dice, EA all which make amazing versions for the PS3, what are they? the PS3 is vastly superior to the 360, its not the PS3 fault devs are lazy.. thats like taking a crappy driver, putting him behind the wheel of a Ferrari and he wrecks it within seconds then saying the Ferrari was a inferior car.. Same prinicipal here, crappy sloppy devs rush PS3 games.. its the Devs that are the problem not the console
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chikenfriedrice

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#8 chikenfriedrice
Member since 2006 • 13561 Posts

I just think Sony has better 1st party devs and Sony supports them....I think the 360 is capable of anything the PS3 can do

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skinny_man_69

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#9 skinny_man_69
Member since 2005 • 5147 Posts
They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.AAllxxjjnn
So true. Silly consoles, fighting over second place :P
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Stevo_the_gamer

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#10 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 49596 Posts
I do believe comparing exclusives--when they're different games across different genres/platforms--adds subjectivity to the role. One might believe Killzone 2 looks the best, but another might believe Gears of War 2 looks the best. Thus, the argument won't go anywhere. Comparing multiplatform games not only makes sense, but is readily available to be analyzed objectively.
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Doolz2024

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#11 Doolz2024
Member since 2007 • 9623 Posts

I also think exclusives are what should be compared in these graphics comparisions, but instead GS picks multiplats that are better on the 360 for the most part.

I bet the next time they do a graphics comparison, Bayonetta will be on the comparison list too. :roll:

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Mogotoo

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#12 Mogotoo
Member since 2009 • 1826 Posts

Wait...so you admit that graphical comparisons between multiplats is redundant, and then you go on to say that Killzone 2 blows Halo 3 out of the water?

I really can't see how any same-gen graphical comparison is not redundant. They all look great.

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alextherussian

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#13 alextherussian
Member since 2009 • 2642 Posts
I never get the graphics fighting occurring on this board, simply for the irony of it. Last gen the PS2 was clearly the weakest of the two consoles, had a much weaker online structure and was more probably to break. Despite that it had some amazing games, and this is what made the console such a beauty to own. . Add in that for the vast majority of the time PC versions look considerably better, and PC exclusives are miles better then consoles (graphically speaking) Why argue graphics at all, if arguing over a second place that doesn't in and of itself depict a better experience?
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iKINGBOBi

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#14 iKINGBOBi
Member since 2009 • 1083 Posts

Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.racing1750

despite what lems say about MGS4, it looks better than Gears 2. So thats 3 ps3 games that look better than Gears 2.

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TheSterls

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#15 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts
They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.AAllxxjjnn
Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that.
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chikenfriedrice

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#16 chikenfriedrice
Member since 2006 • 13561 Posts

[QUOTE="racing1750"]Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.iKINGBOBi

despite what lems say about MGS4, it looks better than Gears 2. So thats 3 ps3 games that look better than Gears 2.

yeah according to GS MGS4 looked better than Crysis Warhead :roll:

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TheSterls

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#17 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts

[QUOTE="racing1750"]Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.iKINGBOBi

despite what lems say about MGS4, it looks better than Gears 2. So thats 3 ps3 games that look better than Gears 2.

Agreed , I own both and overall mgs4 looks better. Hell id say RE5 on the 360 looks better then Gears 2.
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skinny_man_69

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#18 skinny_man_69
Member since 2005 • 5147 Posts
[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.TheSterls
Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that.

Nice first post :P
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Doolz2024

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#19 Doolz2024
Member since 2007 • 9623 Posts

[QUOTE="racing1750"]Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.iKINGBOBi

despite what lems say about MGS4, it looks better than Gears 2. So thats 3 ps3 games that look better than Gears 2.

idk about all that. Gears 2 looks much better than MGS4.

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TheSterls

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#20 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts

[QUOTE="iKINGBOBi"]

[QUOTE="racing1750"]Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.chikenfriedrice

despite what lems say about MGS4, it looks better than Gears 2. So thats 3 ps3 games that look better than Gears 2.

yeah according to GS MGS4 looked better than Crysis Warhead :roll:

Considering Crysis Warhead at the time ran like horribly on about 99% of the pc rigs that were out no wonder it didnt win any awards. It doesnt matter how great it looks when it runs horribly.
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delta3074

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#21 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts
[QUOTE="savetehhaloz"]If you put both consoles together, you'll see that both of them have their own strengths and flaws. Both consoles are equal in my eyes as the hardware specs are about equal across the board. However, from the developers point of view, the PS3 is architecturally inferior. Kennysolidsnake
You need to correct that to "the lazy devs perspective its inferior" ok so IW, Dice, EA all which make amazing versions for the PS3, what are they? the PS3 is vastly superior to the 360, its not the PS3 fault devs are lazy.. thats like taking a crappy driver, putting him behind the wheel of a Ferrari and he wrecks it within seconds then saying the Ferrari was a inferior car.. Same prinicipal here, crappy sloppy devs rush PS3 games.. its the Devs that are the problem not the console

where i come from, it's rude to insult someones work unless you can do better, can you develope games as well as they can? no, of course you can't, your not a developer, lets not blame SONY, even though they admitted deliberately making there console an absolute pig to develope on,let's blame the devs instead, because apparently, they are either lazy, or they can't do there job properly, i'm sorry mate, i can't subscribe to that theory, it's the PS3's fault it's a pig to develope on, not the dev's fault, it's an awesome little machine,but don't blame the devs for it's shortcomings, blame whoever put those shortcomings into the machine
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tehsystemwarior

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#22 tehsystemwarior
Member since 2009 • 1812 Posts
Why do you feel the need to make 987439852450 new topics every day?
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chikenfriedrice

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#23 chikenfriedrice
Member since 2006 • 13561 Posts

[QUOTE="chikenfriedrice"]

[QUOTE="iKINGBOBi"]

despite what lems say about MGS4, it looks better than Gears 2. So thats 3 ps3 games that look better than Gears 2.

TheSterls

yeah according to GS MGS4 looked better than Crysis Warhead :roll:

Considering Crysis Warhead at the time ran like horribly on about 99% of the pc rigs that were out no wonder it didnt win any awards. It doesnt matter how great it looks when it runs horribly.

hmmm I must have been in that lucky 1%

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AAllxxjjnn

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#24 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts

[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.TheSterls
Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that.

Yet, it still can't beat a game from 2 ****ing years ago.

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TheSterls

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#25 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts
[QUOTE="TheSterls"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.skinny_man_69
Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that.

Nice first post :P

Its true, Ive read these boards and im tired of hermits brining in the pc in all there graphical arguments. Im running a GTX285 with 6 gigs of ram i know what a good looking pc game is. But the fact is consoles are holding up very well this genearation and nothing came out on pc this year that touched UC2 visually. Hence the fact every gaming website has gave UC2 best visuals.
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Yankees718

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#26 Yankees718
Member since 2009 • 1033 Posts

[QUOTE="TheSterls"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.AAllxxjjnn

Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that.

Yet, it still can't beat a game from 2 ****ing years ago.

Lol thats a sig worthy quote....so much fail

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TheSterls

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#27 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts

[QUOTE="TheSterls"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.AAllxxjjnn

Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that.

Yet, it still can't beat a game from 2 ****ing years ago.

Nor can any pc game for that matter.
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TheSterls

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#28 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts

[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]

[QUOTE="TheSterls"] Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that. Yankees718

Yet, it still can't beat a game from 2 ****ing years ago.

Lol thats a sig worthy quote....so much fail

Do it all you want what pc games won best visuals this year? Link me to one website where a pc game won best visuals this year? You cant because it doesnt exist im sorry its a simple fact.
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awdxfv

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#30 awdxfv
Member since 2010 • 331 Posts
Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.racing1750
MGS4 also, it beat Crysis, something that i cannot understand, but Crysis was beaten in the GOTY 2008 awards in tech.
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TheSterls

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#31 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts

[QUOTE="TheSterls"][QUOTE="skinny_man_69"] Nice first post :P Yankees718

Its true, Ive read these boards and im tired of hermits brining in the pc in all there graphical arguments. Im running a GTX285 with 6 gigs of ram i know what a good looking pc game is. But the fact is consoles are holding up very well this genearation and nothing came out on pc this year that touched UC2 visually. Hence the fact every gaming website has gave UC2 best visuals.

Wow, time to use this:

Im sorry but you just show why hermits are the most desperate fanboys on systemw wars. Beat pc gaming? No I just want it to live up to my expecations and its simply not doing that.
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AAllxxjjnn

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#32 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts
[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]

[QUOTE="TheSterls"] Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that. TheSterls

Yet, it still can't beat a game from 2 ****ing years ago.

Nor can any pc game for that matter.

What's your point, here's 4 games that came out recently that beat anything on consoles: Arma II, STALKER Clear Sky, STALKER Call of Pripyat, Shattered Horizon.
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skinny_man_69

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#33 skinny_man_69
Member since 2005 • 5147 Posts
[QUOTE="racing1750"]Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.awdxfv
MGS4 also, it beat Crysis, something that i cannot understand, but Crysis was beaten in the GOTY 2008 awards in tech.

Yeah well Sims 3 won Best Strategy Game of 2009 so...I wouldn't take Gamespot's awards too seriously :P
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AAllxxjjnn

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#34 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts
[QUOTE="Yankees718"]

[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"] Yet, it still can't beat a game from 2 ****ing years ago.

TheSterls

Lol thats a sig worthy quote....so much fail

Do it all you want what pc games won best visuals this year? Link me to one website where a pc game won best visuals this year? You cant because it doesnt exist im sorry its a simple fact.

Here's your problem, you look to "best visual" awards for evidence.
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Phoenix534

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#35 Phoenix534
Member since 2008 • 17774 Posts

The PC is the only thing blowing crap out of the water. The graphics on the PS3 and Xbox 360 are too close. Also, what the hell? First you're a cow, then a lemming, then a cow, then a lemming, then a cow, etc. WTF? Can't you make up your mind?

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alextherussian

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#36 alextherussian
Member since 2009 • 2642 Posts
[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]

[QUOTE="TheSterls"] Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that. TheSterls

Yet, it still can't beat a game from 2 ****ing years ago.

Nor can any pc game for that matter.

Stalker and Arma 2 tend to disagree. A modded stalker is a beauty to behold, as is a maxed out Arma 2. Throw in that both games have much larger scale, throw in Arma 2's dynamic AI (yes it can be wonky, but when it works it works amazingly). U2 is a fantastic game, but I find it hard to believe that with a good computer you fail to see that it looks inferior to such games...
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awdxfv

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#37 awdxfv
Member since 2010 • 331 Posts
[QUOTE="awdxfv"][QUOTE="racing1750"]Both consoles are very similar, the only PS3 games that look better than Gears 2 is Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2.skinny_man_69
MGS4 also, it beat Crysis, something that i cannot understand, but Crysis was beaten in the GOTY 2008 awards in tech.

Yeah well Sims 3 won Best Strategy Game of 2009 so...I wouldn't take Gamespot's awards too seriously :P

I agree with that more, than i do with MGS4 winning graphics, it was GOTY that year and deserved it, but seriously, with a high-end pc nothing even compares to crysis.
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ShadowriverUB

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#38 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts

[QUOTE="TheSterls"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]They hardly 'blow the 360 away'. The only thing that's blowing anything away is the PC.skinny_man_69
Yet Uncharted 2 looked far better then anyhting to come to pc this year . Imagine that.

Nice first post :P

lol, yet valid :P

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awdxfv

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#39 awdxfv
Member since 2010 • 331 Posts
But yes TC i agree, PC blows PS3 away, PS3 blows XBOX 360 away and 360 blows Wii away in terms of graphics from exclusives.
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Hanass

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#40 Hanass
Member since 2008 • 2204 Posts

It's been said a million times in this thread, but I'll just add my post to it: "NO GAME ON THE PS3 'BLOWS AWAY' the Xbox 360, that's just cow drivel." Uncharted 2 may look better than GeoW2, but there's not a "huge difference". I think I'm gonna bookmark this thread in case anyone accuses PC gamers of being graphics whores here in the future.

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TheSterls

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#41 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts
Nor can any pc game for that matter.

What's your point, here's 4 games that came out recently that beat anything on consoles: Arma II, STALKER Clear Sky, STALKER Call of Pripyat, Shattered Horizon.

LOL sorry your wrong. Stalker? Horrible character model sand the geometry is terrible. Theo only area it tops UC2 is Scale . Shattered Horizon? Really dude? Do you know how easy it is to render objects on screen when the entier backround is a black skybox. And Arma 2 looks bland. The fact is we can argue this all day but you have no case. UC2 won best visuals on EVERY WEBSITE. The games you mentioned didnt even get nomiated. Do you own a PS3? Have you palyed these games? I doubt it are you wouldnt be arguing with me. And Crysis a 2 year old game blows everyone of those pc titles out of the water from a visual perspective.
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DethSkematik

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#42 DethSkematik
Member since 2008 • 3900 Posts
No, I say multiplats would determine which one is more superior (in that case, the 360 wins, majority of the time). Let's face it, the PS3 is one powerful machine, but if its multiplats are "weak," that leaves exclusives, which pale in comparison to the abundance of multiplats (unless some only play exclusives, then...well, they must get bored real fast :P). Personally, I favor multiplats over any exclusive...most of my top games are also on other systems as well ;).
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awdxfv

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#43 awdxfv
Member since 2010 • 331 Posts

It's been said a million times in this thread, but I'll just add my post to it: "NO GAME ON THE PS3 'BLOWS AWAY' the Xbox 360, that's just cow drivel." Uncharted 2 may look better than GeoW2, but there's not a "huge difference". I think I'm gonna bookmark this thread in case anyone accuses PC gamers of being graphics whores here in the future.

Hanass
erm...uncharted 2 blows gears 2 away...are lemmings in denial now. It is bad enough that cows cannot accept crysis beating UC2 since it won recent awards on graphics, but seriously lemmings...
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AAllxxjjnn

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#45 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts

LOL sorry your wrong. Stalker? Horrible character model sand the geometry is terrible. Theo only area it tops UC2 is Scale . Shattered Horizon? Really dude? Do you know how easy it is to render objects on screen when the entier backround is a black skybox. And Arma 2 looks bland. The fact is we can argue this all day but you have no case. UC2 won best visuals on EVERY WEBSITE. The games you mentioned didnt even get nomiated. Do you own a PS3? Have you palyed these games? I doubt it are you wouldnt be arguing with me. And Crysis a 2 year old game blows everyone of those pc titles out of the water from a visual perspective. TheSterls
STALKER beats it in scale, textures, lighting, shadows etc. You're damage controlling now. And still using video game award shows as evidence. I could also argue Empire Total War is technically better than Crysis or Arma II is considering it's scale is far larger.

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awdxfv

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#46 awdxfv
Member since 2010 • 331 Posts

[QUOTE="awdxfv"][QUOTE="Hanass"]

It's been said a million times in this thread, but I'll just add my post to it: "NO GAME ON THE PS3 'BLOWS AWAY' the Xbox 360, that's just cow drivel." Uncharted 2 may look better than GeoW2, but there's not a "huge difference". I think I'm gonna bookmark this thread in case anyone accuses PC gamers of being graphics whores here in the future.

Hanass

erm...uncharted 2 blows gears 2 away...are lemmings in denial now. It is bad enough that cows cannot accept crysis beating UC2 since it won recent awards on graphics, but seriously lemmings...

You need top stop ****ing your PS3 for a sec and look at my sig. If anyone can be more impartial in this manner, it's someone who owns one.

I know fanboys who own all systems...
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TheSterls

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#47 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts

[QUOTE="TheSterls"] LOL sorry your wrong. Stalker? Horrible character model sand the geometry is terrible. Theo only area it tops UC2 is Scale . Shattered Horizon? Really dude? Do you know how easy it is to render objects on screen when the entier backround is a black skybox. And Arma 2 looks bland. The fact is we can argue this all day but you have no case. UC2 won best visuals on EVERY WEBSITE. The games you mentioned didnt even get nomiated. Do you own a PS3? Have you palyed these games? I doubt it are you wouldnt be arguing with me. And Crysis a 2 year old game blows everyone of those pc titles out of the water from a visual perspective. AAllxxjjnn

STALKER beats it in scale, textures, lighting, shadows etc. You're damage controlling now. And still using video game award shows as evidence. I could also argue Empire Total War is technically better than Crysis or Arma II is considering it's scale is far larger.

Stalkers textures are horrible without mods, no it does not have better lighting then UC2 and what about the far superior character models, animations and enviormental effects. You fail to mention that in any of your comparison. I have no need for damage control as the game Im arguing for won best visuals on nearly every website you are just a fanboy on a forum arguing about something that didnt even get a nomination. If I was talking about the rewards on one sight then yes you would have a point but Uc2 has won EVERYWHERE.
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awdxfv

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#48 awdxfv
Member since 2010 • 331 Posts
Crysis with texture packs can look better than real life *drools* I am never playing real life again :P
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TheSterls

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#49 TheSterls
Member since 2009 • 3117 Posts

[QUOTE="awdxfv"][QUOTE="Hanass"]

It's been said a million times in this thread, but I'll just add my post to it: "NO GAME ON THE PS3 'BLOWS AWAY' the Xbox 360, that's just cow drivel." Uncharted 2 may look better than GeoW2, but there's not a "huge difference". I think I'm gonna bookmark this thread in case anyone accuses PC gamers of being graphics whores here in the future.

Hanass

erm...uncharted 2 blows gears 2 away...are lemmings in denial now. It is bad enough that cows cannot accept crysis beating UC2 since it won recent awards on graphics, but seriously lemmings...

You need top stop ****ing your PS3 for a sec and look at my sig. If anyone can be more impartial in this manner, it's someone who owns one.

UNC2 does blow away Gears 2. Check my gamertag its the same as my gamespot account I own both a PS3 and 360. Does that mean Gears 2 looks bad? No it looks better then most games on hte market to this day . But UC2 beats it from every perspective visually.
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AAllxxjjnn

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#50 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts
[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]

[QUOTE="TheSterls"] LOL sorry your wrong. Stalker? Horrible character model sand the geometry is terrible. Theo only area it tops UC2 is Scale . Shattered Horizon? Really dude? Do you know how easy it is to render objects on screen when the entier backround is a black skybox. And Arma 2 looks bland. The fact is we can argue this all day but you have no case. UC2 won best visuals on EVERY WEBSITE. The games you mentioned didnt even get nomiated. Do you own a PS3? Have you palyed these games? I doubt it are you wouldnt be arguing with me. And Crysis a 2 year old game blows everyone of those pc titles out of the water from a visual perspective. TheSterls

STALKER beats it in scale, textures, lighting, shadows etc. You're damage controlling now. And still using video game award shows as evidence. I could also argue Empire Total War is technically better than Crysis or Arma II is considering it's scale is far larger.

Stalkers textures are horrible without mods, no it does not have better lighting the uc 2. And what about the far superior character models, animations and enviormental effects. You fail to mention that in any of your comparison. I have no need for damage control as the game Im arguing for won best visuals on nearly every website you are just a fanboy on a forum arguing about something that didnt even get a nomination.

Horrible textures?  Why do you keep using game award shows as evidence?