Official Project Natal Sticky - KEEP IT HERE

Natal works 100%.

Link.

Natal works 100%.

Link.

dreman999

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

Natal works 100%.

Link.

RockyNando

Actually, notice the lag after the kid finishes the ball rebound game and dances. It's the fastest he's moved and the cam ends up buffering his movements, and he didn't really move that fast.

Natal works 100%.

Link.

dreman999

Good article and nice read. However, "The first thing I noticed was a slight lag I hadn't intended. It's not horrible, but my avatar moved a hair more slowly than I did." is hardly 100%. I also noticed this lag on the simple painting demonstration.

Actually, your most critical motions very often involve fast movements. This is a bit of downer

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

[QUOTE="2beers_in_hand"]Um two eyetoys combined is not impressive scout. Who really wants to hop up and down in their living room we play games to escape reality and relax. Not look like we are having a seizures to make are character move.

2beers_in_hand

Gee , should I beleive in the game journelists actually impressed that actually saw the NATAL in use or should I beleive in the bitter cow :question:

Answer: The people that have actually tried NATAL out. No use to continue to feed the trolls here...

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

[QUOTE="2beers_in_hand"]Um two eyetoys combined is not impressive scout. Who really wants to hop up and down in their living room we play games to escape reality and relax. Not look like we are having a seizures to make are character move.

2beers_in_hand

Gee , should I beleive in the game journelists actually impressed that actually saw the NATAL in use or should I beleive in the bitter cow :question:

[QUOTE="2beers_in_hand"]

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

Gee , should I beleive in the game journelists actually impressed that actually saw the NATAL in use or should I beleive in the bitter cow :question:

ChartTopper93

[QUOTE="ChartTopper93"][QUOTE="2beers_in_hand"]Give it a couple of months and teh magic will have worn off. Sorry but playing on one plane is a joke. Since you think you know it all how do you suppose you'll walk in a 3d world?

2beers_in_hand

Its not his or our job to figure out how to do anything you're asking. It's the delevopers working on the games for Natal job to. No one here has answers for you. We saw what you saw of it n don't know how it will be implemented...we're just all speculating about the possibilities and having a good time. Relax.ChartTopper93

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

Natal works 100%.

Link.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

Natal works 100%.

Link.

flazzle

Good article and nice read. However, "The first thing I noticed was a slight lag I hadn't intended. It's not horrible, but my avatar moved a hair more slowly than I did." is hardly 100%. I also noticed this lag on the simple painting demonstration.

Actually, your most critical motions very often involve fast movements. This is a bit of downer

[QUOTE="flazzle"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

Natal works 100%.

Link.

dreman999

Good article and nice read. However, "The first thing I noticed was a slight lag I hadn't intended. It's not horrible, but my avatar moved a hair more slowly than I did." is hardly 100%. I also noticed this lag on the simple painting demonstration.

Actually, your most critical motions very often involve fast movements. This is a bit of downer

yes. I definitly read the burnout part. Motion on a driving game is hardly as demanding as other games, such as a FPS or even a rail shooter.

Watch the demos more closely, specifically the ones MS is using to promote it in their highly produced ads. If you watch the kid play the ball game and flail around faster at the end, there is noticable and considerable lag. Even in the less demanding painting game, there is a noticible lag from when she throws the paint and her avatar follows. This is even noticable in the charade part.

It's quite a bit more than a 'hair' lag, and if you don't think a hair lag is something to be concerned about, good luck playing against someone using the option of a real controller.

Then take that hair lag a bit further : think about playing online where there might be lag. You are going to get lag on lag.

My guess is this is because the cam can only accept so many frames per second, and when you move fast, it has to catch up.

Watch those videos closer. Once you see it, you can't help notice it.

I really have no idea why people were skeptical about this. 3D camera tracking is nothing new, and it's proven to be extremely accurate. The eye toy, a 2002 (?) product featured 1:1 product and it's even 2D. Seriously, I'm not so keen on the whole motion camera idea, but it will work 100%nintendo-4life

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]I really have no idea why people were skeptical about this. 3D camera tracking is nothing new, and it's proven to be extremely accurate. The eye toy, a 2002 (?) product featured 1:1 product and it's even 2D. Seriously, I'm not so keen on the whole motion camera idea, but it will work 100%dreman999

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]I really have no idea why people were skeptical about this. 3D camera tracking is nothing new, and it's proven to be extremely accurate. The eye toy, a 2002 (?) product featured 1:1 product and it's even 2D. Seriously, I'm not so keen on the whole motion camera idea, but it will work 100%nintendo-4life

I think "Natal" is a horrible name for it. Just my 2 cents.RotaryRX7

Probably not the final name.

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

You want hypocrisy, how about cows always slamming the idea, then slamming MS's, when it's obviously more advanced and then trying to sell Sony's off as impressive?

Wow, the cowism is stong in this guy. For some reason you just can't believe that microsoft would make something that worked the way it was meant to be made, unlike that sixaxis crap sony tried blowing up your skirt. For someone who hasn't tried it yet, you sure have a lot of hate on for it. Natal is nto designed for all current games, its a new form of control and will spawn new types of games and gameplay mechanics. It will allow for more fine detailed control of games such as driving, changing a tire, refuelling the car, perhaps thigns like putting on a seatbelt and helmet... and these are just the 'car' related things. This puts sony's little motion light sticks to shame.Phazevariance

I totally agree! I can't stand the prejudice!

But it's not much different than was said about the Wii from Day 1 by BOTH Lemmings and Cows.

However, I disagree about the light sticks. I thought those were impressive as well, and there was ZERO lag, as can be seen in this vid:http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/controller-free-fun-on-xbox/319651

The Natal does seem to have some lag as I stated in my previous post. Hopefully that can be worked out.

Not to compare this to the Wii, but I can see the novelty wearing off of "Natal" fairly quick after using it. I imagine there's only so many times you can steer with your hands, jump up and down in your living room, and wave your arms around before you start to feel like, "meh".

Dont get me wrong, the technology looks incredible, but as for what it's going to add in terms of fun... I'm skeptical. Sure, Milo is fascinating, but is that really going to be fun for very long? How are achievements going to be incorporated into stuff like that? I can see it now...

Achievement Unlocked: Make Milo Cry - 20G

Not to compare this to the Wii, but I can see the novelty wearing off of "Natal" fairly quick after using it. I imagine there's only so many times you can steer with your hands, jump up and down in your living room, and wave your arms around before you start to feel like, "meh".

Dont get me wrong, the technology looks incredible, but as for what it's going to add in terms of fun... I'm skeptical. Sure, Milo is fascinating, but is that really going to be fun for very long? How are achievements going to be incorporated into stuff like that? I can see it now...

Achievement Unlocked: Make Milo Cry - 20G

Keltoid

Yeah, it depends on the game. MS would be foolish to make this the main control, which is why i always appreciated the flexibility of the Wii remote.

I like the possibilitys of NATAL, but i can see it being easily overused

[QUOTE="TBoogy"]

[QUOTE="2beers_in_hand"]Um two eyetoys combined is not impressive scout. Who really wants to hop up and down in their living room we play games to escape reality and relax. Not look like we are having a seizures to make are character move.

2beers_in_hand

You have been spewing that "two eyetoys" crap for a couple of days now. Are you starting to believe it yourself?

I don't remember the skateboard question. You will have to ask again. I will be sure to come back to this thread again.

As for the eyetoy comment, as I have said before I am sure, the eyetoy did not detect distance by measuring the time light takes to return to the camera. If you look at the Natal camera, you can see all the little senors surrounding the lens.

One trick pony? Voice recognition, face recognition, and 3d motion detection. Thats is 3 tricks in one device. ;)

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"][QUOTE="2beers_in_hand"]I'm just pointing out the inherit flaws of Natal that's all. Due to the fact I'm not blinded buy MS loyalty, everything they showed has been done in one shape or form. An Alpha you can't even answer a simple question I posed to you before you hype something to the moon make sure it doesn't have gaping flaws that will make it an instant fail form the starting gates.

2beers_in_hand

Wrong AGAIN.

In the live demo, when the girl on stage would step forward, her character would to. Up/down. Side to side. Forward and backwards. What else do you want?

Honestly, your "Thats just BS!" staements make it seem like you are just sticking your fingers in your ears while screaming to avoid hearing what you don't want to hear. You seem to have a MS grudge, as opposed to just being a fan of new technology like most people who like the project are. It has nothing to do with "MS loyalty" as you mentioned earlier. Sony fans have been able to admit the tech is impressive. Why can't you?

The Natal will take teabagging your fallen foes to another level.

I think it looks pretty sweet. Lets hope MS incorporates Natal into some main stream games (Gears, Halo, etc).

[QUOTE="2beers_in_hand"][QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"] Tracking full body 3D movement has never been done before. Period. Brand. New. Tech.TBoogy

Wrong AGAIN.

In the live demo, when the girl on stage would step forward, her character would to. Up/down. Side to side. Forward and backwards. What else do you want?

Honestly, your "Thats just BS!" staements make it seem like you are just sticking your fingers in your ears while screaming to avoid hearing what you don't want to hear. You seem to have a MS grudge, as opposed to just being a fan of new technology like most people who like the project are. It has nothing to do with "MS loyalty" as you mentioned earlier. Sony fans have been able to admit the tech is impressive. Why can't you?

As for the skateboarding question how will Natal understand the difference of a 360 flip and a lazer flip. A BS hardflip and a kickflip vareil? How is it suppose to understand different grabs or grinds beyond the most basic ones? Also how the bloody hell are they going to do either a Motocross or aBMX game release the MS stationary bike? I'll tell you what I wont rag on Natal like I've been doing instead I'll just talk about its limitations.

[QUOTE="TBoogy"]

[QUOTE="2beers_in_hand"] But thats the thing it's not tracking in 3D thats just a bunch of B.S. MS is trying to sell. 2beers_in_hand

Wrong AGAIN.

In the live demo, when the girl on stage would step forward, her character would to. Up/down. Side to side. Forward and backwards. What else do you want?

Honestly, your "Thats just BS!" staements make it seem like you are just sticking your fingers in your ears while screaming to avoid hearing what you don't want to hear. You seem to have a MS grudge, as opposed to just being a fan of new technology like most people who like the project are. It has nothing to do with "MS loyalty" as you mentioned earlier. Sony fans have been able to admit the tech is impressive. Why can't you?

As for the skateboarding question how will Natal understand the difference of a 360 flip and a lazer flip. A BS hardflip and a kickflip vareil? How is it suppose to understand different grabs or grinds beyond the most basic ones? Also how the bloody hell are they going to do either a Motocross or aBMX game release the MS stationary bike? I'll tell you what I wont rag on Natal like I've been doing instead I'll just talk about its limitations.

I watched the demo again before I wrote back. If you do the same, you will see that she took small steps forward and her character did the same. Watch it closely.

Your skateboard question is a good one, and one I wondered myself. Allequipment has potential limitations. But that does not mean the tech is not good.

MS is giving the tools to developers. It is their job to integrate it into their products. Just as they made a unified system for LIVE and told developers to put it in their games, they can now say "we have a voice & face recognition system that detects motion. Put it in your games if you want. We have done the hard part for you".

They stated today that Bungie and Epic have been working with the tech for a while. I have faith that they will find a good use for it. But if not them, someone will.

Here are certain problems that I see in Natal

1st: Motion Sensing suppose to make games fun and "simpler" than complicated. Natal full body motion plus facial recognition requires the participant to exert too much effort to control, that control can be complicated instead of simple. Using your body as controller is not as simple as you think

2nd: Full Body Motion Control can have inaccuracy in terms of the height, width, and base of the person playing if that person has different kind of clothing. Kinetics can be a problem in Natal as there are millions upon millions of variation of space of the human body and how they react

3rd: Full Body Motion sensing is more useful for browsing menu, files, and internet, not really for gaming.

4th: Voice Recognition itself is very problematic especially with people who have different accents. In addition, face recognition can have a different input in the game than the participants intends, as pyschology proves that one facial expression means different meaning to different people depending on scenario which is not controlled.

5th: Motion Sensing without controller limits movement of play of simpler commands of movement and action. Some say that the X360 controller can be used, but what's the point of FULL body motion sensing if you just hold the controller. Sure you can add features of voice recognition and facial expression, but whats the point of your hands and feet if you hold the XBox 360 controller. Thus, Natal's FULL funtionality is very limited to certain games like party games, and using it for hardcore game like Halo, only is useful for some features that are not really enhance gameplay.

The big difference the between the concept of NATAL and Wii is that NATAL wants games to be played more realisitic; Wii on the other hand, just want games to be played for fun to everyone. Same thing with the concept of graphics, Realistic VS Fun Factor which both enhance gameplay.

The impressions from Kotaku have been very postive. I think it will be great for certain games but horrible for others. I will wait for support software to actually pass judgement. I will probably get it just for UI though.

spinecaton

If the demo video is true and it does whatthey say it can do..especially being able to motion scan objects for the game your playing. Tiger Woods would finally be fun again. If you have clubs at home...just grab them and scan them and use them while your playin the game. I rather use a real club in a game than a remote. I've tried with Tiger Woods 08' for the Wii and it blows. Just make sure tighted up your grips on your clubs so they wont slip and knock someone out lol. What I saw on monday was the first real step towards virtual reality in videogames. Win or fail...we might be witnessing the first small step towards the future of videogames beyond the barriers of controllers and remotes...Damn again, I just love the whole idea about scanning objects and using them for props for your videogames, if you wanted too. I've been playing videogames for 20+ years and I have too say that Project Natal is one of the best and most exciting innovations I've seen in videogames...period! If only it just does what they say it can do andthen the whole Milo demo freaked me out...I only say this because I still remember playing the Atari 7200 and that Milo thing seemed like some sort of weird scifi/skynet end of the world **** .

The tech is there, however those who are supporting it will have to go through exactly what sheep were going through with the Wii-mote: 3rd parties supporting it for casuals only.

Honestly people... we have games like:

1. Ricochet
2. Paint Party
3. Driving with hands (like Wii-wheel)
4. A dino game where you wave your arms around....
5. Real soccer
6. and scanning skateboards!!
7. AND CLOTHES SWAPPING!
8. Gameshows.

And then we have Microsoft saying that controllers are barriers and you have a complete recreation of everything Nintendo. If you don't remember them saying this, just go to Microsoft's conference and start at 87 minutes or so. It's obvious that Microsoft is going for what Nintendo has.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="dreman999"]The eyetoy is 2d. Natal is 3d.dreman999

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] yeah and i stated that :|nintendo-4life

exactly, i find it a bit desperate that people are still not convinced Natal isn't accurate enough. It's insane!nintendo-4life

I don't think accuracy is the issue. I think it's quite accurate. However, if you watch the commercial of the family watching the kid play the ball game and the paint demo, there is a small, but signficant amount of lag, and you can notice the game 'catching up'. For example, note when game is over and kid is jumping around. the cam cannot keep up. Same when the woman throws paint. She's done throwing and her avatar is still finishing.

[QUOTE="spinecaton"]

The impressions from Kotaku have been very postive. I think it will be great for certain games but horrible for others. I will wait for support software to actually pass judgement. I will probably get it just for UI though.

gellis1981

If the demo video is true and it does whatthey say it can do..especially being able to motion scan objects for the game your playing. Tiger Woods would finally be fun again. If you have clubs at home...just grab them and scan them and use them while your playin the game. I rather use a real club in a game than a remote. I've tried with Tiger Woods 08' for the Wii and it blows. Just make sure tighted up your grips on your clubs so they wont slip and knock someone out lol. What I saw on monday was the first real step towards virtual reality in videogames. Win or fail...we might be witnessing the first small step towards the future of videogames beyond the barriers of controllers and remotes...Damn again, I just love the whole idea about scanning objects and using them for props for your videogames, if you wanted too. I've been playing videogames for 20+ years and I have too say that Project Natal is one of the best and most exciting innovations I've seen in videogames...period! If only it just does what they say it can do andthen the whole Milo demo freaked me out...I only say this because I still remember playing the Atari 7200 and that Milo thing seemed like some sort of weird scifi/skynet end of the world **** .

What? are you talking about sony's eyetoy? lol. Thats a shame. I'm just saying if it works as advertised...then it would be a first in videogames.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="dreman999"] That the main difference, it only has object tracking, Natal is controller free for now. All it needs is away to make your character none stationary and it set. Think of what it can do, adventurer games, puzzle games, driving, sports, and etc. This also means that our current controller will stay the same, too.Odrec

What? are you talking about sony's eyetoy? lol. Thats a shame. I'm just saying if it works as advertised...then it would be a first in videogames.

gellis1981

[QUOTE="Odrec"][QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] exactly, i find it a bit desperate that people are still not convinced Natal isn't accurate enough. It's insane!gellis1981

[QUOTE="Phazevariance"] Wow, the cowism is stong in this guy. For some reason you just can't believe that microsoft would make something that worked the way it was meant to be made, unlike that sixaxis crap sony tried blowing up your skirt. For someone who hasn't tried it yet, you sure have a lot of hate on for it. Natal is nto designed for all current games, its a new form of control and will spawn new types of games and gameplay mechanics. It will allow for more fine detailed control of games such as driving, changing a tire, refuelling the car, perhaps thigns like putting on a seatbelt and helmet... and these are just the 'car' related things. This puts sony's little motion light sticks to shame.flazzle

I totally agree! I can't stand the prejudice!

But it's not much different than was said about the Wii from Day 1 by BOTH Lemmings and Cows.

However, I disagree about the light sticks. I thought those were impressive as well, and there was ZERO lag, as can be seen in this vid:http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/controller-free-fun-on-xbox/319651

The Natal does seem to have some lag as I stated in my previous post. Hopefully that can be worked out.

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/controller-free-fun-on-xbox/319651

In addition to it looking incredibly lame.....the technology doesn't worry me, but the software they've shown to demo this thing is terrible.

Here's what's a joke about the cows arguments: The Natal is total garbage, even though this is a new technology shown for the 1st time, yet Sony's 2nd rate Wiimote wannabe with a lit ball at the end is teh greatest. I guess gaming on a PS just weens you on accepting 2nd rate copies of everyone else...

[QUOTE="gellis1981"][QUOTE="Odrec"] Mark my words. M$ would have to add a motion controller ala Sony or Nintendo when they realize that their completely free motion detection system is worthless for any kind of real gaming. Odrec

[QUOTE="Odrec"][QUOTE="gellis1981"] What r u the Guru of motion detection? "Mark my words" ooohhh! what r u scared of? Change? ....Chillax!AlphaGamer469

Here's what's a joke about the cows arguments: The Natal is total garbage, even though this is a new technology shown for the 1st time, yet Sony's 2nd rate Wiimote wannabe with a lit ball at the end is teh greatest. I guess gaming on a PS just weens you on accepting 2nd rate copies of everyone else...

AlphaGamer469

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

Here's what's a joke about the cows arguments: The Natal is total garbage, even though this is a new technology shown for the 1st time, yet Sony's 2nd rate Wiimote wannabe with a lit ball at the end is teh greatest. I guess gaming on a PS just weens you on accepting 2nd rate copies of everyone else...

2beers_in_hand

Here's what's a joke about the cows arguments: The Natal is total garbage, even though this is a new technology shown for the 1st time, yet Sony's 2nd rate Wiimote wannabe with a lit ball at the end is teh greatest. I guess gaming on a PS just weens you on accepting 2nd rate copies of everyone else...

AlphaGamer469

Any one remember Johnny Lee?

http://kotaku.com/5279512/wii-remote-wizard-working-on-project-natal

Did a quick search and found thisfrom October 31st of last year.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26655452

@TheGrat1

I dont' see what facts you have to support that the PS motion is more sensitive than the Wii Motion Plus, both are capable of one-to-one, as shown in demos.

And it is of course obvious that Microsoft Natal is a product that is intended to compete with the Wii for the casual gaming audience that the Wii has most of the market share in. There are two main questions we should focus on:
(1): will there be enough first party support, and games developed with Natal for traditional analog gamers?

(2): will it be capable of competing with the Wii.

This is what I think:

(1) The Natal's games will probably not be as focused on traditional gamers for obvious reasons. There probably won't be HALO NATAL, although there might be a 'Link's Crossbow training' equal, (A traditional game stripped down to be more casual) but the majority of the games will be targeted towards casual audiences, like Breakout and such. Milo, while it could be a breaktrhough technical achievment, (or abysmal failure) isn't really targeted towards traditional gamers. And I cannot imagine a Fable or Gears of War Natal, it just doesn't seem like it's worth the developing effort, or would add unneccesary hassle to traditional gamers, kinda like how it wasn't worth adding motion control to Twilight Princess on the Wii. (Although since they did put it on the wii, might as well add motion support) I enjoyed it a lot more on the Gamecube, because my wrist hurt a lot fr omthe wii version.

(2) It really depends on the games released for the Natal. It carries a heftier price tag than the Wii, seeing as how you have to purchase a 360 before you can use the peripheral, butthe price gap is not as hugewhen you consider the purchase of a lot of Wii motes. (4 motes, 160 + 250=410) But overall, the Wii will have the 'cheaper' advantage, it's percieved as cheaper by the general public, also buying 4 motes is not mandatory. The wii has the advantage there.

That means that the Natal will not be able to succeed financially if it merely intends to be a Wii clone, which means it has to literally leap in front of the Wii in terms of providing a better casual gaming experience. The keyword here is casual. Milo, was a demonstration of how they would do that. The Wii was hailed by many for Wii Sports, which allowed you to simulate sports, if Natal is able to simulate a boy, then it will standout on it's own. But can it? When I saw Milo, personally I thought it was very sketchy. It's one of those things that I won't believe works unless I see someone from Gamespot or G4 demoing it live on TV.

I aprecaite intelligent discussion, without the use of the words cows, lemmings, sheep, or hermits. (Infact, I think Hermit makes the least sense, seeing as how you mostly play Halo or Killzone from your home with your friends online anyway, PC gamers do the same)