Neil Druckmann will do more movie-games, next game is structured "more like a TV show"

@ConanTheStoner: People back in 2000 complaining they were playing as an effeminate man. Now complaining about a burly, manly woman. It's like poetry or something, they rhyme.

Could be gamers are homophobic as ****, to the point Valve deliberately designed Halflife monsters at the time to look like gay sex acts to get a repulsive response from teenagers and that very little has changed. But i'm an optimist.

ngl though, do hate these "Finally GAMING HAS GROWN UP! BLA BLA BLA citizen bla bla" dumbasses.

It's like you were saying, apparently the aspiration of gaming isn't to be a game but to emulate movies.

Can understand movie influence, not necessarily a bad thing. Look at any top tier game, chances are influenced by movies. But if this is the pinnacle them off to live in the 90s.

@hardwenzen: Abyzilla It's pretty funny.

I forgot just how good gaming was before we had pompous writers and big name actors that have no place in good games, whatsoever, thanks for reminding me.

Or even better: how dare gamers criticise something that was put out to subvert expectations yet:

- Plays the exact same as its predessor with the exact same combat, fighting the exact same enemies

- Introduces a new character that is badly written but kills off an exisiting liked character just to make the player feel something

- Stands and falls entirely on Druckmanns writing, which I personally do not think is as good as everyone else seems to think

I liked TLOU 2 purely because its gameplay is more of the same, purely because exploring the world that other Naughty Dog artists have made was beautiful and engrossing.

I do not consider it art because Druckmann is a poopy writer that everyone seems to glorify. Just like I think the Marvel Cinematic Universe has very poopy writers, yet every time I look another Marvel movie managed to gross 800+ million dollars

Woop-dee fucking doo.

I never even considered that, hilarious lol.

Yeah, think TLOU2 brought out the phobes of all types. Lots of room temp IQ identity "politics" bickering. As with a lot of entertainment today, the more nuanced criticisms are typically drowned out by people shouting about dumb shit. Was watching Rings of Power, not a fan at all. Went online for confirmation bias to see what others think. Holy shit lol.

Obviously not throwing all TLOU2 critics in with that crowd, have seen plenty of critiques with merit.

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On the movie bit, yeah. Plenty of my gaming favs obviously pulling inspiration. Even going back to gamey af classics of the 90s.

But now we're at this point where it's like a lot of gamers seem like they're ashamed of playing games, likewise studios embarrassed to make them.

It's funny, I remember when I was much younger, thought how cool it would be if games got closer to being like movies. Nope, turn it around, please stop.

Didn't say you can't. Matter of fact, specifically said it's not above criticism, though should really go without saying.

What?

Well I'm certainly not doing that man.

As an aside, saying something is or isn't art, based on whether you like or not, seems a bit silly. Bad art exists. Art you won't like exists.

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Damn Ragnarock, this topic has you all out of character lol.

@ConanTheStoner: It's not me, man. As soon as I criticise a person or game that's being glorified a lot of people just like putting their fingers in their ears and go "lalalala it's not true, I can't hear you"

It's hard to have a conversation about topics these days. I swear to god. As soon as you say something bad, and there is bad stuff to be said (like all of Abby's flashback scenes contain retconning or leave a lot of holes) you get called sexist, homophobic, etc etc and it's just very hard to have a conversation about these topics.

At least you were all grown up about it, not calling things or people poopy; I dig that!

Also here is a funny meme about art:

Hope that is more in character for me :)

I dont know if some of you understand that these types of video games use cut scenes to tie the story better. It's a genre in the video game industry. It is a different type of video game from a pac man or Mario or Pokemon or zelda. Although it can be overused like in mgs4 for example but I don't see many games overuse it.

@R4gn4r0k:

That's the Ragnarock I know!

Yeah man, people can be shitty to each other in gaming discourse. Guilty of it myself, though I try to be more chill these days.

Add in something that's ripe for culture wars though, and yeah, unfortunately people are quick to assume on either side of the fence. Some topics I all out avoid, because even if I don't cosign with a certain idea or group, might just get lumped in anyways. Things like nuance, understanding intent, increasingly hard to come by. Easier to sit back and watch tribes go at it.

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On the games/art bit, personally don't care either way. Little interest in the "what is art" convo.

Do think it's a pick a lane thing though. If someone thinks of games as art, then they all are. If Shadow of the Colossus is art, so is Call of Duty.

It's like how some people rage about Thomas Kinkade paintings not being art. Disagree. Might not be my thing, commercialized af to boot, but still art all the same.

These games are not meant for us. They're meant for the folks that play COD or Halo 90% of the time and want a break.

Well, yeah, the video game industry seems to have an inferiority complex. I would say it dates back to the times when video games were seen as children's toys like legos or Hot Wheels cars. At the time, games were meant to solely entertain and not much else.

Later on when we became able to make games that were genuinely artful, there was still resistance over their merit as a medium with guys such as Roger Ebert scoffing at the notion that video games could be art. This was further exacerbated by the older folks who didn't grow up with them and simply saw them as something that kids wasted their time on.

Fast forward to this day, many are still trying to legitimize games as an art form and want to be taken as seriously as books or movies. They piss and moan when outsiders dismiss games as nothing more than shallow entertainment and try desperately to get validated by guys in Hollywood.

Funnily enough, this behavior reminds me of kids wanting to be perceived as adults who avoided doing "kiddy" things such as gaming. You've probably seen it yourself like when back then, publishers were pushing for M-rated games and kids only wanted that. The cool ones played violent and mature games, not kiddy stuff like Mario or Pokémon. The irony of course was that Mario and Pokémon absolutely shat on most of those M-rated games which were often utter trash. Then these kids outgrew caring about other people's perception of them and embraced the stuff aimed at a younger audience. Kinda like a 13-year-old wouldn't be caught dead playing with legos but a 40-year-old will pester everyone to look at their 12,000-piece Millenium Falcon.

Back in the late 80s and all throughout the 90s we had simplistic graphics. Games were seen as kiddy in the eyes of a lot of adults or people out of the loop, but a lot of these games were deep and offered meaningful gameplay.

Flash forward to today and we have hyper realistic graphics, games looking kiddy or simplistic is no longer a factor, but now we have either games that try super hard to be exactly like a B-tier TV show along with passable writing and a ton of actors. And secondly we have games like A Plague Tale requiem, that have insane looking graphics but offer no exploration or diverging paths. The game is a prime example of wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle.

And as graphics keep improving, I see more and more games just going for the ultra linear route. With barely any input required, other than the player pushing the forward button.

@ConanTheStoner: Yeah, TLOUp1 was predictable, to anyone who has seen any similar movies that inspired it in the past. TLOUp2 however, often put players in a position to make the player uncomfortable and challenged expectations.

I am not a big fan of either, but... TLOUp2 had more artistic merit than the predecessor.

But gamers have shown themselves to possess a really thin skin. Just look at some of the criticism aimed at Disco Elysium. Which is a game which will criticize you no matter what you do.

Seen it since people whined about Zarya.

Mangy, what a bunch of hipster doofus going on here.

lol :P

Yup.

Video games are better off focusing on mechanics over cinematics and storytelling, and even then. I would sooner have them tell stories or a message via level design or game mechanics.

There are plenty of novels that have changed how I see the world. Through providing excellent insight, there are movies that left a strong sentimental touch on me. But video game stories? Nah, barring a few adventure games and VN's they are all fairly trite and banal stuff that have been said better a hundred times before in both movies and literature.

But there is one piece of gaming whose story left its mark on me: Rimworld. And stories in that game arise entirely through game mechanics. No pre-written characters, dialogue or plot to speak of.

So none then?

@Maroxad:

I forgot about the Zarya whining.

Which is wild because

1. Why would you even want to, and

2. They'll never get such validation.

Would think that those in the position to make the big decisions would feel comfy in their own skin. Own their craft. Use their medium to do what Hollywood can't.

In fairness there are "cinematic" games that have gameplay on par with or greater than their film like aspirations. Still have their eyes on the prize, flexing with game design. But of course there's those games where the gameplay is treated like an unwelcome nuisance. And at their worst, the segments where interactivity is straight up compromised.

lol yeah. Saw the first push of that general idea with the Genesis, even took that bait myself for a brief period. My friends and I were the target age group for that way of thinking. Funny enough, their older bros were still happily playing Nintendo stuff.

But at least with that bit, more of a silly marketing campaign and the games were still fire.

Really got wack from gen 6 on into early gen 7. And as you said, often times the mature games were the lesser games. Even their idea of "mature" was pretty immature if anything lol. But yeah, many gamers wanted to fit some identity, seek validation.

Often say, don't entirely blame pubs/devs for all the bad. A lot of times they're really just feeding gamers what they ask for.

This is all so true and exhausting.

Great news for casual nongamers who only play 1 or 2 Sony movie games a year. Soccer moms need entertainment too.

Good lookin' out Sony.

Not being able to experience Ragnarok is hurting you guuuud. This is what you get for sticking to pc gaming🤷‍♂️I am sad for you

I didn't even mention Casual of War, you automatically assumed it was the movie game I was discussing. 🤣🤣🤣🤣. At least you know. You go girl, proud of what you are!

As for that new tangent you brought up, you are very protective about your 30 fps non gamer movie games. I will try it out when you are finished beta testing, in between real video games.

You have been doing nothing else but moan about this game. In fact, this game hit you so hard, you didn't even knew its a 60fps title that can run at over 100fps. But this is what happens when you have a lot of trouble finding anything negative to say about the ps5, you take the 30fps last gen standards, and pretend that's what everyone is playing at on a ps5. Wouldn't want to be in your shoes, you're clearly shook to the core.

I wasn't even talking about Casual of War, YOU brought it up. 😂😂😂😂

You automatically equated non gamer soccer mom casual movie game with GoW, and you owned yourself. 😂😂😂😂

It's 30 FPS on high, you god damn lying beta tester. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Shut the hell up and keep fighting for a distant second place at SW like the last 3 gens. PC is taking this one, again.

Not playing the far better version of 99% of PS4/5 games while having 100 more high scoring games and exponentially better online/competitive gaming?

At least you get your 1-2 timed exclusive movie games designed for non gamers every few years.

@zaryia: It annoys you that the PS5 is trashing its competition and their titles are getting all the attention. All of this while you have your Scam Citizen as the biggest pc exclusive for over 10 years. What a sad state that you're in. And horizon2 easily clapping the visuals of ANY pc title is also funny, and must be incredibly stressful.

honestly, I was hoping tlou2 was a one off thing and Neil would get back on track, now with this im not sure.

PC will win this gen and no timed exclusive casual movie game/tv-show will change this fact. Just like last gen.

PC is by far the best system and it is not even close.

Nintendo is a distant second. At least Nintendo, unlike Sony, still remembers what a video game is about. Third place usually goes to Sony, but with all the studios XBOX has obtained, it is possible that MS might actually grab second place in gen 9 over Nintendo. But even then, everything MS makes goes on PC.

As long as Sony keeps making games focused on the wrong things they will either be last or second last place.

Win with what? Unfinished kickstarted projects?🤡🤡🤡🤡You're such a clown.

With the most AAA, AA, and Indy (by a lot) like last gen all while having nearly all of the top 20-100 best looking games and the ending gfx king. And best online and competitive gaming.

Not going to trade all of that for 1 or 2 timed exclusive casual titles at 30 fps every few years.

You have an indie station that Nvidia is exploiting by charging $1000 for a 70 tier gpu. Devs are milking you with unfinished garbage, and gpu manufacturers are releasing the most overpriced gpu's in history. You truly are a beta test subject🤣

@Juub1990: LMAO

I explicitly said AAA, AA, AND Indy. It wins in all categories thanks to MS/Sony funneling it console exclusives on TOP of all general multiplats.

Nearly every game on PS5 is better on PC, the tiny % that aren't will soon be 😂

@zaryia: Nearly every game when you have like what 4-5 titles? Nice joke. You barely have anything on your system. You have nothing to look forward to. You're desperate for Ragnarok, but you're simply not getting it. Why? Because you don't deserve it.

@Juub1990: what’s a movie game?

Whose alt is this?

@Juub1990: I asked you a question have some manners and answer it

I personally have no problem with this because I find the movie 3 acts far too simplistic.

Having episodes will help make add more creativity than just be like a movie. If that's their plan.