Mouse & keyboard not so superior.

Sigh.

For shooters gamepads suck next to the KB/M combo.

Wahoo you get analouge movement - there is the shift key to 'walk' for PC gamers. Everything else is vastly superiour.
How about the annoyance of face buttons on controlers? If I want to Melee in GeOW or Halo 3 - I have to take my thumb off the right joystick - fun! At least on a keyboard my 5 fingers are used, let alone can quickly hit other keys.

Dont get me started on the superiorily of the mouse.

And no WSAD is fine for movement. in any game. If anything its better in many instances, as its quick response - Quake, UT, Half Life, Counter Strike - hell any fps - not to mention the fine movement of the mouse counters the keys movement - making it much better than an analouge stick

Still this thread is grasping for straws.

Shooters Mouse and Keyboard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gamepad = fact

Otherwise its an opinion.

-

every game ive played on 360 and PC - that is multiplat shooter - the PC version kills the 360 one - defitnaly in controls.

Its noticeable how much better m/kb is in Bioshock, COD4, COD2, FEAR ect. ect.

Also the direction control os much better than using keys such as w,s,d,a. Trashface

Directional control in KB+M games is a combination of keys + mouse. For instance, holding W to move forward while swinging the mouse around changes direction of movement via the mouse input.

WASD keys are thrust/vector keys as opposed to true directional keys. It's like having the WASD hand for rough movement input and the mouse hand to fine-tune that input.

You don't need to take your thumb off to use another face button (melee). I don't at least.

Sigh.

For shooters gamepads suck next to the KB/M combo.

Wahoo you get analouge movement - there is the shift key to 'walk' for PC gamers. Everything else is vastly superiour.
How about the annoyance of face buttons on controlers? If I want to Melee in GeOW or Halo 3 - I have to take my thumb off the right joystick - fun! At least on a keyboard my 5 fingers are used, let alone can quickly hit other keys.

Dont get me started on the superiorily of the mouse.

And no WSAD is fine for movement. in any game. If anything its better in many instances, as its quick response - Quake, UT, Half Life, Counter Strike - hell any fps - not to mention the fine movement of the mouse counters the keys movement - making it much better than an analouge stick

Still this thread is grasping for straws.

Shooters Mouse and Keyboard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gamepad = fact

Otherwise its an opinion.

-

every game ive played on 360 and PC - that is multiplat shooter - the PC version kills the 360 one - defitnaly in controls.

Its noticeable how much better m/kb is in Bioshock, COD4, COD2, FEAR ect. ect.

skrat_01

Grasping at straws implies that I have a bias and agenda which I didn't i was being honest on both sides. You seem like a fanboy. Also, I never said one was better than the other overall. You're agreeing with me that the mouse is better.

It's fairly obvious your challenged when it comes to directions and how easy it is to use a keyboard but whatever. I'll let it go. But next time who knows what I'll do.Tiefster

Well what you should do is actually back up words instead of trying to insult me baselessly. You might not look as silly.

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]It's fairly obvious you're challenged when it comes to directions and how easy it is to use a keyboard but whatever. I'll let it go. But next time who knows what I'll do.Trashface

Well what you should do is actually back up words instead of trying to insult me baselessly. You might not look as silly.

Wow, I didn't know there would be such fangirl responses.I guess i should have figured there would be. Toggeling the shift is much worse than using natural force with a thumbstick. Hot keys don't really matter much with shooters which is what it's about , there are ususally only a few weapons you can keep in inventory. Anyone with common sense knows just putting pressure in the direction you wanna walk in is more natural than keys. Even when I'm truthful and say they both have an advantage, fangirls can't take it. Saying I must be "directionally challenged" is just a sad kiddie attempt to insult me because your feelings got hurt. Hermits really can't accept that the pc is not superior in every single way which is sad.Trashface

Expect fangirl responses for a fangirl topic. Argue it anyway you want, it's all opinion. I used to hate M&K because when I first started getting into PC games I was an experienced console gamer and was not used to looking for keys...now I am more than used to it and find it significantly better than any controller in recent memory, save perhaps the Wiimote/nunchuck. Of course, that is just my opinion, and if you didn't want to hear it in the first place, why'd you make this topic?

[QUOTE="Trashface"]

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]It's fairly obvious you're challenged when it comes to directions and how easy it is to use a keyboard but whatever. I'll let it go. But next time who knows what I'll do.Tiefster

Well what you should do is actually back up words instead of trying to insult me baselessly. You might not look as silly.

Quote where I said a contrller was better than the mouse. I said the mouse was better. One thumb to move in the direction you want that also includes sensitivity is more natural than using 4 fingers on keys. Also, the only way that I see strafing asnetter on the keyboard is that it's a set and locked direction, but I have the ability to hold my thumb steady right or left, so that doesn't apply to me.

I just lol'd a bit.

[QUOTE="15th_archangel"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Wow, I didn't know there would be such fangirl responses.I guess i should have figured there would be. Toggeling the shift is much worse than using natural force with a thumbstick. Hot keys don't really matter much with shooters which is what it's about , there are ususally only a few weapons you can keep in inventory. Anyone with common sense knows just putting pressure in the direction you wanna walk in is more natural than keys. Even when I'm truthful and say they both have an advantage, fangirls can't take it. Saying I must be "directionally challenged" is just a sad kiddie attempt to insult me because your feelings got hurt. Hermits really can't accept that the pc is not superior in every single way which is sad.Trashface

Expect fangirl responses for a fangirl topic. Argue it anyway you want, it's all opinion. I used to hate M&K because when I first started getting into PC games I was an experienced console gamer and was not used to looking for keys...now I am more than used to it and find it significantly better than any controller in recent memory, save perhaps the Wiimote/nunchuck. Of course, that is just my opinion, and if you didn't want to hear it in the first place, why'd you make this topic?

Wow , you're ignorant. There was nothing fangirly about the topic. Read the original post. There was nothing whiny or biased. Obviously, your feelings got hurt again which is why you made a trily whiny/ fangirly response. I guess I made a respectful post and wanted the same types of replies. Thought I might get them. guess I over estimated your intelligence. Anyway, maybe you could read the original post and make a worthy response. Probably not. I game on console and PC. I have no bias in this area. There was no hidden attempt to insult anyone. Nice job at failing and doing it hard.

lol, you may have hurt someone's feelings but certainly not mine. You said the responses to your topic were fangirl responses and I merely tried to point out that mine was simple opinion. I game on both console and pc as well and I suppose labeling your topic as fangirly was a bit rash, but I suppose I only said that because of your response to our replies. There was no hidden attempt to insult anyone like you say, but in your reply you insulted all of us that replied...and you continue to insult in your further responses.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="15th_archangel"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Wow, I didn't know there would be such fangirl responses.I guess i should have figured there would be. Toggeling the shift is much worse than using natural force with a thumbstick. Hot keys don't really matter much with shooters which is what it's about , there are ususally only a few weapons you can keep in inventory. Anyone with common sense knows just putting pressure in the direction you wanna walk in is more natural than keys. Even when I'm truthful and say they both have an advantage, fangirls can't take it. Saying I must be "directionally challenged" is just a sad kiddie attempt to insult me because your feelings got hurt. Hermits really can't accept that the pc is not superior in every single way which is sad.15th_archangel

Expect fangirl responses for a fangirl topic. Argue it anyway you want, it's all opinion. I used to hate M&K because when I first started getting into PC games I was an experienced console gamer and was not used to looking for keys...now I am more than used to it and find it significantly better than any controller in recent memory, save perhaps the Wiimote/nunchuck. Of course, that is just my opinion, and if you didn't want to hear it in the first place, why'd you make this topic?

Wow , you're ignorant. There was nothing fangirly about the topic. Read the original post. There was nothing whiny or biased. Obviously, your feelings got hurt again which is why you made a trily whiny/ fangirly response. I guess I made a respectful post and wanted the same types of replies. Thought I might get them. guess I over estimated your intelligence. Anyway, maybe you could read the original post and make a worthy response. Probably not. I game on console and PC. I have no bias in this area. There was no hidden attempt to insult anyone. Nice job at failing and doing it hard.

lol, you may have hurt someone's feelings but certainly not mine. You said the responses to your topic were fangirl responses and I merely tried to point out that mine was simple opinion. I game on both console and pc as well and I suppose labeling your topic as fangirly was a bit rash, but I suppose I only said that because of your response to our replies. There was no hidden attempt to insult anyone like you say, but in your reply you insulted all of us that replied...and you continue to insult in your further responses.

I only meant a few of the responses. The ones that said I was grasping at straws and the one that said I was directionally challenged. If your original response wasn't of that nature, it didn't apply to you. Like the guy who said he LOLed alittle. Notive how he has the Portal avatar? Someone said PC controls are dumbed down for consoles. Howso? I don't meant HUD's and such. I'm talking pure directional/ aiming.

thing better about k/m

1 much quicker to change wepons with either scroll wheel or num keys

2 quick save/qucik load buttons

3 more presis aiming, try and play fear on pc with a gamepad and you wont have much fun when you keep dying

4 more keys = more actions which make for better gameplay

5 mouse button 4/5 and spacebar are easily the quickes buttons for jumping and throwing grenades

6 right mouse is much faster for aiming than anything on the controler

7 you don't have to toggle walk run, you can just hold one button to runs and most console fps have a run button anyway so it makes not difference except in games like sc/hitman which aren't fps

8 you have much quicker to use lean keys in the form of q and e and the f key for action is faster in many cases than on a controler

For me a con for useing the keyboard is that my hands get freezing.Shomb22

i hate that. you know i saw a painkiller tourney on mtv with some swede against fatality and he kept having to blow on his hands because they were freezing. think about it we are like the pros!

My Logitech G5 is much more accurate than an analog stick.

I prefer controller for sports, racing and platformers though. And that's why you can use 360 or any of the controllers on PC.

I was thinking and the mouse & keyboard combo is not as superior to controllers as hermits like to think. I game on the PC and 360 and I might get a Wii for Mario Galaxy. The controller has a distinct advantage and so does the M & K. The advantage the console controller has over the M & K with shooters is the thumbstick used for walking/ running. With a keyboard, you have to toggle the walk/ run with a key whereas with a controller, you can shift from walk to run by the sensitivity of the thumbstick. This is much better than toggeling. Also the direction control os much better than using keys such as w,s,d,a. The M&K advantage s definitely the mouse. It's much better for intuitive looking around. Trashface

If a game-pad is so much more superior, then why (pray tell) do all console shooters require Auto-Aim?

Also, have you ever played a RTS on a console? How about a true Flight Sim? Saying that a game-pad controls those better is utter blasphemy.

[QUOTE="Trashface"]I was thinking and the mouse & keyboard combo is not as superior to controllers as hermits like to think. I game on the PC and 360 and I might get a Wii for Mario Galaxy. The controller has a distinct advantage and so does the M & K. The advantage the console controller has over the M & K with shooters is the thumbstick used for walking/ running. With a keyboard, you have to toggle the walk/ run with a key whereas with a controller, you can shift from walk to run by the sensitivity of the thumbstick. This is much better than toggeling. Also the direction control os much better than using keys such as w,s,d,a. The M&K advantage s definitely the mouse. It's much better for intuitive looking around. Madsucktion

If a game-pad is so much more superior, then why (pray tell) do all console shooters require Auto-Aim?

Also, have you ever played a RTS on a console? How about a true Flight Sim? Saying that a game-pad controls those better is utter blasphemy.

Reread and find where I EVER said a controller is superior. I said each had advantages. Also, not every FPS on consoles use auto aim.

I'm guessing you have a 360, why don't you plugthe padinto your PC & challenge one of the hermits here to prove your point :).

M+K is vastly better than controlers for FPS games. It's obvious, in a game where accuracy depends on input precision that using your whole arm (ie mouse) would be far superior. The benefit of a large number of keys is also a big help when dealing with things like weapon selection or misc commands. Ever notice how in console shooters especially the enemies always come from right in front of you? It's because turning on consoles is crippled.

I like FPS games on consoles, and I don't play them on PC, but its obvious that as far as input precision goes, M+K is way better. There's a reason why the #1 COD 4 PS3 player uses a fragFX.

[QUOTE="Madsucktion"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]I was thinking and the mouse & keyboard combo is not as superior to controllers as hermits like to think. I game on the PC and 360 and I might get a Wii for Mario Galaxy. The controller has a distinct advantage and so does the M & K. The advantage the console controller has over the M & K with shooters is the thumbstick used for walking/ running. With a keyboard, you have to toggle the walk/ run with a key whereas with a controller, you can shift from walk to run by the sensitivity of the thumbstick. This is much better than toggeling. Also the direction control os much better than using keys such as w,s,d,a. The M&K advantage s definitely the mouse. It's much better for intuitive looking around. Trashface

If a game-pad is so much more superior, then why (pray tell) do all console shooters require Auto-Aim?

Also, have you ever played a RTS on a console? How about a true Flight Sim? Saying that a game-pad controls those better is utter blasphemy.

Reread and find where I EVER said a controller is superior. I said each had advantages. Also, not every FPS on consoles use auto aim.

well it's called Aim Assist. You're fooling yourself if you think that FPS on consoles do NOT have it.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Trashface

Grasping at straws implies that I have a bias and agenda which I didn't i was being honest on both sides. You seem like a fanboy. Also, I never said one was better than the other overall. You're agreeing with me that the mouse is better.

I think w, s, d, a is better than using the analog stick and who the heck walks in an FPS game other than FPS stealth games, which is a rare sighting itself on all platforms and I could just bind toggle walk/run button on my shift key.Supafly1

what? hermits go on and on about a mouse being more accurate for aiming, yet when it comes to movement suddenly clunky left, right, up, down is superior?

As long as you play against someone who uses the same controller or is using a keyboard - mouse too.

Who gives a crap? Honoustly, who the hell cares, singleplayer is adjusted among multiplats and in multiplayer everyone has the same control scheme anyway. :roll:

I'm just much more comfortable on my couch with a controller than with a laptop on my lap.

I was thinking and the mouse & keyboard combo is not as superior to controllers as hermits like to think. I game on the PC and 360 and I might get a Wii for Mario Galaxy. The controller has a distinct advantage and so does the M & K. The advantage the console controller has over the M & K with shooters is the thumbstick used for walking/ running. With a keyboard, you have to toggle the walk/ run with a key whereas with a controller, you can shift from walk to run by the sensitivity of the thumbstick. This is much better than toggeling. Also the direction control os much better than using keys such as w,s,d,a. The M&K advantage s definitely the mouse. It's much better for intuitive looking around. Trashface

I completely agree. Whereas console controls are slowly innovating(Wii), PC gamers are still PAINFULLY using the blocky keyboard (not designed for games, but for TYPING) and mouse. The mouse is fine as it's accurate and comfortable...but the keyboard?? Sorry guys, but Keyboard and Mouse is just GHETTO to use at this point. There is a reason why the vast majority of people game on consoles and not PC.

Walking in an fps why? why would I do this anyway? its daft .. keyboard for movement does the job, twitching run around a corner is more effective than walking. you then also have the 5 buttons on the mouse and the keys around WASD which make other actions equicker.

KB/Mouse superior genres:

Shooters ( all kinds )

Simulation ( All kinds )

WRPG ( Yes it is by a mile ... )

MMORPGs ( No brainer )

Adventure ( PROPER adventures )

KB/Mouse equal genres:

Racing ( Im sorry but if you cant twitch a key as good as an analog thats YOUR problem not mine )

Controller superior genres:

fighting

Arcade Simulators

Platformers

Hell even the Grand Theft Auto games are easier on the PC ... except flying :P

Walking in an fps why? why would I do this anyway? its daft .. keyboard for movement does the job, twitching run around a corner is more effective than walking. you then also have the 5 buttons on the mouse and the keys around WASD which make other actions equicker.

KB/Mouse superior genres:

Shooters ( all kinds )

Strategy ( all kinds )

Simulation ( All kinds )

WRPG ( Yes it is by a mile ... )

MMORPGs ( No brainer )

Adventure ( PROPER adventures )

KB/Mouse equal genres:

Racing ( Im sorry but if you cant twitch a key as good as an analog thats YOUR problem not mine )

Controller superior genres:

fighting

Arcade Simulators

Platformers

Hell even the Grand Theft Auto games are easier on the PC ... except flying :P

Meu2k7

lol, so keys are equal to analogue sticks for racing games?!! but analogue sticks arent equal to a mouse for aiming in shooters?

Walking in an fps why? why would I do this anyway? its daft .. keyboard for movement does the job, twitching run around a corner is more effective than walking. you then also have the 5 buttons on the mouse and the keys around WASD which make other actions equicker.

KB/Mouse superior genres:

Shooters ( all kinds )

agree with this

Strategy ( all kinds )

agreed

Simulation ( All kinds )

WRPG ( Yes it is by a mile ... )

ME plays perfectly on controller oh wait its not on pc so we cant compare this game what a shame

KOTOR plays equally well on xbox pc

MMORPGs ( No brainer )

agreed

Adventure ( PROPER adventures )

dont see how K/M has the advantage here

KB/Mouse equal genres:

Racing ( Im sorry but if you cant twitch a key as good as an analog thats YOUR problem not mine )

no way in hell controller is far better than K/M, pressure sensitive triggers say hello

Controller superior genres:

fighting

Arcade Simulators

Platformers

Hell even the Grand Theft Auto games are easier on the PC ... except flying :P

Meu2k7

Hermits really can't accept that the pc is not superior in every single way which is sad.Trashface

I think your argument about walking and running on a stick is most definately over-rated. It just doesn't matter. Using pressure on an thumbstick just doesn't add that much to gameplay. Either you need to run, or you need to walk. With todays modern mice, you could simply either toggle run/walk with a mouse button, or use the scroll wheel ala Splinter Cell.

Either way,it is an extremely minor or no advantage at all for FPS style games.

There are just way too many advantages of mouse/key. As you said, the mouse for aiming is great. But also, all the keys available to a PC game allows developers to put more into the game, or makes inventories and such much easier to navigate.

For RPG, RTS, Adventure and FPS games, the mouse and keyboard thoroughly trounce a gamepad.

/topic.

*Goes off and play's Medal of Honor Heroes 2...poor hermits, they really don't know what their missing out here when I play this game...thank god I get the best of both worlds...*-CheeseEater-

If anything - my cousin has told me Crysis with a Wiimote is amazing - on his 42" LCD screen.

[QUOTE="Meu2k7"]

Walking in an fps why? why would I do this anyway? its daft .. keyboard for movement does the job, twitching run around a corner is more effective than walking. you then also have the 5 buttons on the mouse and the keys around WASD which make other actions equicker.

KB/Mouse superior genres:

Shooters ( all kinds )

agree with this

Strategy ( all kinds )

agreed

Simulation ( All kinds )

WRPG ( Yes it is by a mile ... )

ME plays perfectly on controller oh wait its not on pc so we cant compare this game what a shame

KOTOR plays equally well on xbox pc

MMORPGs ( No brainer )

agreed

Adventure ( PROPER adventures )

dont see how K/M has the advantage here

KB/Mouse equal genres:

Racing ( Im sorry but if you cant twitch a key as good as an analog thats YOUR problem not mine )

no way in hell controller is far better than K/M, pressure sensitive triggers say hello

Controller superior genres:

fighting

Arcade Simulators

Platformers

Hell even the Grand Theft Auto games are easier on the PC ... except flying :P

Thebettertwin

Mmkay first off - WRPGs. No seriously Mouse and Keyboard makes a huge difference. Being able to Macro abilities ona keyboard - let alone have mouse aim would be a godsend in ME, and I played Kotor on PC and Xbox, and the KB/M setup was much more efficent. ANd then there are all those other WRPGs. Be it point and click (Witcher) or direct control (gothic, oblivion).

By adventure he means point and click. with a mouse its far less akward than with an analouge stick (Sherlock Holms the Awakened, Sam and Max ect).

-Racing you are right. Keyboard works - but it is knowhere as good as a gamepad. I cant stress that enough. But a wheel does kill a gamepad also - unless the game is Burnout.

-------

The rest I cant dispute - exept - arcade - KB+M is better in many instances. Metal Slug, Street Fighter, 1946 - all feel much better without a 360 pad (Dpad and stick)- and just fine. Does depend on the pad though.

I'm guessing you have a 360, why don't you plugthe padinto your PC & challenge one of the hermits here to prove your point :).

tramp

Only high speed I can get here is satelitte. It's super weak. Too much latency for PvP. You gotta buy a special USB to controller cable?

[QUOTE="Meu2k7"]

Walking in an fps why? why would I do this anyway? its daft .. keyboard for movement does the job, twitching run around a corner is more effective than walking. you then also have the 5 buttons on the mouse and the keys around WASD which make other actions equicker.

KB/Mouse superior genres:

Shooters ( all kinds )

Strategy ( all kinds )

Simulation ( All kinds )

WRPG ( Yes it is by a mile ... )

MMORPGs ( No brainer )

Adventure ( PROPER adventures )

KB/Mouse equal genres:

Racing ( Im sorry but if you cant twitch a key as good as an analog thats YOUR problem not mine )

Controller superior genres:

fighting

Arcade Simulators

Platformers

Hell even the Grand Theft Auto games are easier on the PC ... except flying :P

marklarmer

lol, so keys are equal to analogue sticks for racing games?!! but analogue sticks arent equal to a mouse for aiming in shooters?

Yes thats exactly right? why is that funny? Racing requires alot less precision than Shooting..

[QUOTE="marklarmer"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"]

Walking in an fps why? why would I do this anyway? its daft .. keyboard for movement does the job, twitching run around a corner is more effective than walking. you then also have the 5 buttons on the mouse and the keys around WASD which make other actions equicker.

KB/Mouse superior genres:

Shooters ( all kinds )

Strategy ( all kinds )

Simulation ( All kinds )

WRPG ( Yes it is by a mile ... )

MMORPGs ( No brainer )

Adventure ( PROPER adventures )

KB/Mouse equal genres:

Racing ( Im sorry but if you cant twitch a key as good as an analog thats YOUR problem not mine )

Controller superior genres:

fighting

Arcade Simulators

Platformers

Hell even the Grand Theft Auto games are easier on the PC ... except flying :P

Meu2k7

lol, so keys are equal to analogue sticks for racing games?!! but analogue sticks arent equal to a mouse for aiming in shooters?

Yes thats exactly right? why is that funny? Racing requires alot less precision than Shooting..

Hey Marklarmer, Meu2k7 is right. You can't do flick shots on a console. Of course you probably didn't know that or don't know what that is.

Right now, the Wii-mote has proven that it's just as equal to the K&M in terms of precision on FPS, if not superior than it, due to also having an analog stick for movement. Just play games like Metroid Prime 3 and Metal of Honor Heroes 2, and you'll realize the full potential of FPS with the Wiimote.

I jumped on the Wii bandwagon when it first came out because I could envision it standing on even ground with the Keyboard and Mouse in FPS. I always loved the console, especially for racing and sports games, but I would never fully enjoy playing a FPS on a console without compromising the precise aim of a mouse. This is coming from a hermit who converted to the Wii.