Is Sony simply behind the times?

Sony is not behind the times.. not yet anyway.. their traditional console market strategy is working for them..

will that always be the case (particularly after the ABK deal is in full stride)?.. No.. I think Sony sees the writing on the wall and are slowly, but surely, embracing PC and bolstering their subscription/cloud services..

but for now, "if it ain't broke" is Sony's attitude and rightfully so..

I wouldn't say behind the times.....it's more that they are in dominant player in a specific business model and have been so for 20yrs.

Of course they don't want to industry to shift, they have more to lose than to gain.

The industry is moving to digital and so I think MS is getting ahead of it with Game Pass because people are playing less and less on consoles and more on PC, mobile and handheld.

The console business model has been stagnating for a while and pricing out indies and creativity.

The industry is shifting, I'm just not sure I agree with HOW it's shifting since it seems that we are moving to the model of the movie industry.

I voted no. Was debating between no or maybe, but ultimately decided that it is Sony's right to embrace whatever policy which can (and likely would) change when deemed unprofitable.

I was also turned away from the yes option stating that it hurts gamers; which feels to me like a sense of entitlement, like gamers "deserve" to play any game on any system. Don't get me wrong, I like that idea, but I also like when developers are able to focus on a clear, concise version of their game that fully utilizes the platform it is made for. Nintendo does this well, and I think it helps promote new system specific ideas that separates them from their competitors and advances gaming.

9th gen is being treated as a catch up phase for Sony certain ways.

Their scoffing at Microsoft's focus on BC 8th gen came from an arrogance like - oh, we're winng, why would we have to do anything like that if it's not going to matter. And gamers echoed that sentiment, so they've some complicity there. I myself though Sony had done an exceptional job building a catalog of PS1 and PS2 classics on PS3 and not bringing those over to PS4 with user entitlements was more about trying to push their streaming BC service. Has. Nothing to do with BC functionality as PS1 and PS2 games would run on BC emulation and and they had working emulators on PS4.

Microsoft also introduced their UWP ecosystem design 8th gen and got mocked for it, and now that Sony's trying to do something similar with releasing games on PC too. And in many ways it still seems like they don't know how they wanna do this part of their growth.

As for their staggered release strategy, I mean I get it, prioritizes PS5 over PC in hopes to sell consoles, then release on PC. But it also bogs down their developers who can't move right onto making new games and thus affects their output. Re-releasing older titles too is having a similar effect. They release games on PC but also haven't managed to bridge their ecosystem into entitlements so players have to double dip between console-PC platforms. There's no cross system progression for game saves or achievements either.

Then there's the issue how their games are mostly offline SP experiences and they want more live service games. They're still figuring that out. I think it's a waste of time because it means supporting everything they put out regardless of whether it flounders or else everything they release runs of big risk of having its life support yanked prematurely and people might avoid them as a result.

Then there was the whole PS Plus rebranding pivot, which is still the same service it was before, PS Plus and PS Now. And was supposed to be Sony's answer to Game Pass but it's still the same service just different name. It mainly lacks the day one releases Game Pass offers for 1st and 3rd party content. So, the service didn't make a major overhaul, just a branding pivot. There's still room to grow like offering their 1st party games day one and making the service available on PC and with more localized support for those titles and that's going to be a lot of work to get there.

Nonetheless they still seem like many's console of choice this gen by default so that buys Sony time to figure it out.

No, what Sony is doing is working out fine for them. They are in a dominant position so they can do this and get away with it.

Had they been in a worse spot however, this could have gone badly for them.

They'll end up being the only company with an old traditional and stationary console in the market.

Well, they better come up with revolutionary ideas in that space.

Nice write up.

Gaming is in an interesting space and while the changes are pretty apparent, the shift is slow. Consoles haven't been growing as a market and the numbers are just shuffling between manufacturers (last I checked). The move to a non platform specific(hardware) is the inevitable. We are now in the phase of fighting this inevitability because of old heads and nostalgia to traditional console gaming. In the meantime I will wait for the inevitable.

No, Sony is ahead of it times. Problem with consoles its still small market compare to PC and mobile. Console market didn’t grow at all, combined about 300 million consoles are sold each generation and prices for developing games is increasing.

i hesitate to even ask but how is "Sony ahead of [the] times" if you admit that the console market is relatively small and there is no growth despite increasing development costs?..

i think this closing remark pretty much sums it up.. Sony can continue to slow walk for now but i think some hard decisions are going have to be made as we head into the PS6 and Xbox Next generation..

@Antwan3K: Well of course. Sony is the only console that supports VR, 1st in the console market to invest in Subscription Services for games PSnow, include the fast SSD possible at the time

@gotgames: but only 1.5% of PS5 owners have a current VR headset, Sony's subscription service is way behind the comparable Game Pass service in both subscribers and Day One content, and the SDD hasn't really made a tangible difference (ie Ratchet & Clank can run on a HDD)..

beyond that, this conversation is about their current traditional console market strategy versus their reluctance to embrace PC, mobile, and cloud..

Sony is the clear market leader in the console market but (as you pointed out) the console market is relatively small and isn't growing.. that doesn't seem to equate to being "ahead of the times"..

@adsparky: #1. The clip is great. The amount of subtle intelligence in the Simpsons is staggering. Something modern entertainment severely lacks.

#2. The 'grandpa effect' clearly has some truth to it, but I simply can't fully embrace it as the sole reason I, and many others have a problem with modern entertainment.

Firstly, we have to realize that this argument isn't as timeless as many claim. Our concept of how we interact with entertainment (music, movies, games) has really only existed for a few decades. So to claim parents have always hated their children's music seems a little hyperbolic. Maybe I'm wrong, and they totally did, but I highly doubt parents in 1570 were going "thine bards doth not embrace a candle to those in the year of our Lord 1540!". So I don't buy that argument in total, but I also wonder why the disdain mostly only goes forwards and not backwards. Why do I have so little interest in modern entertainment, but I don't feel nearly as strongly with entertainment before my time? Surely some of it is because that older entertainment was still available while I was growing up. And that vibe still came through the creators from my childhood, that brought their childhoods and values to the modern entertainment for my childhood. But even with all of that, I still think a lot of the, let's say music of the past, was objectively better than the drivel being sputtered out these days. Which is in no way an indictment of modern artists talent, but rather the consequence of how we've devalued entertainment. I've seen musicians on YouTube that a fucking amazing! And instead of using that immense talent to create new music, share their own personal experience and feelings, or push the boundaries of the medium... they just play covers, or teach others how to play, so they can continue the same regurgitative loop. And in some ways it's hard to blame them, when that's the only way they can get attention, and some become millionaires. But if the future of entertainment is to only do what already exists... What's the point?

Now for Sony (after that diatribe), I find their current model extremely boring as well. And I don't see putting their games on PC as anything interesting either. I think the Jim Ryan era is the worst in Playstation's history, but it's one of the most successful, so why would they change it? Until they can make VR non erp inducing, I couldn't care less. I haven't bought a new game in 4 years, I still don't want a PS5, they just aren't offering anything I want. It wouldn't matter if they put everything on PC anyway. I don't want it.

@Antwan3K: No R&C can’t run on HDD, you ignore what is required to run R&C on HDD, Ram, Direct Storage etc. i don’t care about numbers sales or Subscribe. I just provided a list that Sony is ahead of its time. I left out a lot BluRay for games,DvD etc. that’s thinking ahead of its time not Sales and other BS. MS included the 1st HDD when they released Original Xbox that is thinking ahead of its time.

It factually can run on HDD. Now try to truth... for once.😊

@Pedro: @Antwan3K:

I think as far as Sony's growth on PC evolves they'll have to figure out a way to bridge entitlements with their platform, either making their own distribution service, or partnering with an existing one, I suspect that would be EGS because they have very similar focus on certain titles and making similar exclusivity deals, that would also help with their ability to offer localized PC support for PS Plus subscription services. They'd probably have to make a concession to EGS, either royalties but my guess possibly giving them 1 year first crack at PC exclusivity for 1st party games over other digital PC platforms like Steam or GoG and such. I've no reason to think they're doing anything to make this happen, just seems the most natural and effortless way to get there when they eventually do try to create a console-PC ecosystem bridge.

I don't see them creating their own distribution service though. Just because the PS Plus catalog has a ton of already published games from third parties and it would be a tall order to get those games on PC withn their own distribution service. Partnership would seem far more expedient.

It would no doubt be better for their bottom line to figure out how to handle PC distribution themselves.

Steam has also been open to entitlement bridging with other digital platforms, they did so for a while with GoG but I believe GoG pulled the plug on that one. I suspected Sony and Valve were working toward something like that years back when Portal 2 released on PC, giving PS3 copies a Valve digital code, but that sort of went nowhere.

Well yes they are behind in QoL features (cross play/save/license, very limited integration with other platforms, spotty backwards compatibility). They rely on exclusives to get people in their ecosystem (which I think has had a negative impact on gaming as a whole). As someone who doesn't use Sony hardware as my main gaming platform, they don't have a lot of compelling reasons for me to participate. I don't want their subscription because I don't want to play games on that platform. There is nothing of value on offer other than overpriced online access.

All this plus the style of games they have been focused on don't appeal to me means I find the whole PS brand pretty boring.

I have learned that gamers HATE when companies do things that are consumer friendly and prefer anti-consumer practices.😂

I mean they’re massively successful, until that changes, I don’t think Sony changes lol

@Pedro: No, it can’t you are ignoring what is required to run it on PC HDD. Can you run it on PS4 HDD?yes you can?is it playable NO. Without Direct Storage and Ram it runs and plays like crap. Try it great game and is as smooth as butter.

Ratchet & Clank can indeed run on an HDD.. that's just a plain fact.. it can even run on a SD card on Steam Deck..

beyond that, again, you are missing the entire point of the conversation and deflecting from the fact that even you recognize that the current console market that Sony is dominating is both relatively small and isn't growing despite ever increasing development costs..

that dynamic doesn't equate to the statement that "Sony is ahead of the times"..

@dimebag667: I think the grandpa effect is a big part of our opinions on modern music. When we talk about older musicians being better, we are comparing the worst modern bands to old ones that stood the test of time. There was shit music back then, we just don't have to think about it anymore.

That said, there are other factors at play here. A generation ago, music was changing fast as technology advanced. Acoustic guitars gave way to electric, and it opened doors for creative people to explore. Then we got effects pedals to play around with (remember when Frampton Comes Alive blew everyone's mind?). Synthesizers came about after that, and new genres were invented yet again. Then people started making music on computers, opening up all kinds of new avenues for everyday folks. But there hasn't been a big advancement since then. New artists are using tools that have existed on some level for 30 years at this point. It's hard to come up with something completely new in that situation.

All that said, this may be the best time for music we have ever had, but you have to search for good stuff. Anything you could possibly want to hear, is being made by someone somewhere, and they will post it on Bandcamp any minute now.

Ah! I now get where you are coming from, you don't understand the meaning of "can't". Now, everything makes sense.

I don't know...maybe?

They're a Japanese company, which means they're often resistant to change and traditional.

With that said, things seem to be working pretty well for them, so why change?

I don’t know if Sony is ahead or behind the times but I do however think it’s completely foolish to to weigh their presence of the present solely on their refusal to support the PC market as much as one of it’s competitor is currently.

I’m in complete belief that the main reason MS branched out from the console war wasn’t because they “saw the bigger picture“ but because they were/are failing behind their major competitor (Sony) in the console race, and acknowledging this, there were no need to try and compete in a sinking ship, so their next plan was to branch out from the “console“ market and since MS software exclusively run on PC(Windows ), why not go there? While the console market is smaller than PC/mobile, I don’t see the console market going anywhere soon, least of all by next generation console cycle. With the console generation selling better than the previous while costing more initially doesn’t spell “console market declining” to me.

I think Japanese companies in general have a tendency to be behind the times because they seem to stick to their comfort zones too much. PSN wouldn't exsist if Microsoft didn't blaze a trail with Xbox live, and in 2023 Nintendo still doesn't understand the internet and online play. While Japanese game development has some great gems, it's no secret that western developers stole the crown years ago.

In 10 years when all MS owned studios' games (they're going to buy more, trust me) go GamePass exclusive, Sony simply won't be able to afford to compete. They be begging big trillion dollar tech companies to buy them out or to merge.

@Pedro: dude I wished I cared about your opinion. All you do is going in circles like every troll. Go watch DF

It is not just Japanese companies that are behind the times, it is the country overall. Japan is falling behind China economically and geopolitically. Even neighboring South Korea is more relevant than Japan through its culture and Samsung as one of the top mobile phone makers.

You think going in circles is pointing out the facts? That is interesting. First you made an objectively false claim and when corrected by myself and others you cry trolling. I guess it is true that you all hate being fact checked.🤷🏽‍♀️

No.

@Pedro: sure R&C can run on any PC using HDD. Direct Storage 1.2 not required and 64gb of Ram not required. It will run as smooth as PS5 version.🤷‍♂️

What false claims did i make

"No R&C can’t run on HDD," #16

Any more questions?🤔

@judaspete: Yes and no. I completely agree that there has been trash in every decade. Hell, I would say most entertainment that has ever been created is mostly garbage. Even the output from beloved systems like SNES and PS2 have somewhere around 10-20 amazing games, 20-30 good games, and hundreds of ok to trash. My point isn't that all music of the past was amazing, but that it's highs were higher than what we're getting now. And of course it's easier to pull the gems out after years of sifting, but even at the time, I was (or at least my brother did for me) able to find something I loved. These days I can pretty easily find decent singles, but almost never a album full of gold. And the sifting has become a thousand times harder than it used to be. At least for me. I'm assuming it's all singles because that's what matters most on Spotify, and that's where the industry is right now. That business model and what it's done to the industry is a whole other discussion.

You mentioned the speed at which music experimentation and technology changed, which I agree with. So is the problem that we've reached the end of creativity? Or is it that the true pioneers in music can't make a living at it anymore? Or that people are forgoing experimentation to follow tried and true trends, because that's safest play for success? Haha, I don't personally remember people's reaction to Frampton Comes Alive because I wasn't born yet :) But I can imagine it being awesome, seeing how I would rather listen to that than most modern stuff. I still think there are plenty of awesome songs to be written with the current tools, but people have to dig deeper and try harder. I always think of all the songs that people claim Stairway to Heaven ripped off. Even if they did, those other bands to a bucket of sand and made basic, generic sand castles. Then Zeppelin came along and turned that same bucket of sand into the Taj Mahal. More complex, more intricate, more beautiful... just more. I think too many artists/musicians aren't going deep enough with their craft. How often do you hear modern popular music with real dynamics, amazing production, or some interesting take? Many times it's quantized and robotically created, to where it's edges have all been sanded down, and it's soul removed. It's completely possible that you've heard something that I haven't, but with this amazing wealth of modern music people speak of, why can't I find it?

Every time I hear this argument I always ask for five bands/albums/songs that they think are great. And generally, they either don't reply, or they come back with something that is objectively mediocre. So I will ask the same of you, because I'm really not trying to win an argument. I actually just want to enjoy new music again. And if you have the answers sensei, I'm happy to be your grasshopper.

Here are some of the most recent albums I loved. Most are over a decade old.

Versus some of the newest old stuff I've found.

And here's a couple sillies... just for fun 😊

PS. This goes in the new oldies. I can't believe I overlooked it. This on shrooms is amazing!

The point is, you can still play R&C without an SSD. Even if it limits the settings it's playable, this proves the SSD hasn't changed much.

The PS3 used Blu Ray to win a format war against HD-DVD. Very few games use Blu Ray for anything more than fluff like uncompressed Audio. Most of the time games were not significantly bigger and textures weren't better, probably because they didn't want to waste RAM on that anyway.

Sony said the SSDs would eliminate loading screens and change the way games were built. I'm not seeing that. In fact we STILL have loading screens.

Imo, SSDs in consoles today, don't really give the seamless N64 like cartridge experience of the past, although much faster. I've just been unimpressed to be honest given the promises.

Sony has won 4 out of the 5 generations they have participated in. They are doing fine lol

They are outdated for my tastes because I'd like to be able to play all games on whichever machine I choose, but their practices seem to be working when looking at their profits. The 2 biggest selling systems are both driven by their exclusive libraries.

Sony is a very forward-thinking company and its management knows full well what they can get away with. It is loaned goodwill at this point - I'm sure they're aware of that too. They've always got options, such as those you've mentioned, which they can still lean on at any time.

yet sony software sales are way more then xbox. if sony but there first party day one on ps plus it would be way ahead of gamepass.

digital foundry proved it could not run on Hdd. it froze everytime. the only way is to use another type of storage with the hhd.

How is console market not growing? you know how many people bought ps4 and xbox and switch during covid.

you can't use a hdd for ratchet and clank. look up digital foundry video.

@gifford38: Factually false but I know you hate facts.😂

Voted No. OP's definition of behind the times is pretty bad and vague.

That stated, I definitely feel Sony could benefit from some changes.

@lebanese_boy: Facts don't work on him.

Um, what? Of course you can, lol. Massively slower, but you can do it.

Yes it can.

It's massively slower on low spec machines, 1-3 seconds on better machines. Works great.

@Pedro: I'm an optimist.