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:lol:
Basinboy
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"][QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]In gimmick: was a masterpiece. DarkLink77
Well said. Btw I was just playing some Deus Ex HR for the first time and I have two thoughts.
One, the intro level and cinematic was epic. Two, the AI is dumb as hell. When are we going to get a stealth game that delivers believable AI?
>Smart AI >Stealth Game Pick one.I want a stealth game where the AI is completely ruthless and persistent. I'm talking like flipping over tables and furniture, shooting at sh*t, grabbing innocent civilians and putting a gun to their head while calling you a b*tch and demanding that you show yourself, and if you don't they blow their head off. I'm talking checking each and every room for your ass, every nook and cranny, and never giving up. In most games when enemies spot you ya just gotta run and hide and then the dumbasses just magically forget they saw you. I'm sick of that. I want crazy mother f*ckers who hunt my ass down and beat me within an inch of my life.
[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]Chaos Theory and Thief exist.[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] >Smart AI >Stealth Game Pick one.DarkLink77
As far as AI and stealth games go, MGS is one of the better ones. They're still far from intelligent, but atleast they run some kind of search protocol.
It's that the PMCs in MGS 4 were fun as hell to mess with. The robots you deal with in Act 4 and 5? F*cking dull as hell. jg4xchampWell, Act 4 and 5 are pretty poor by comparison to the first three, which are really good. But messing with MGS enemies has always been fun. It wouldn't be MGS anymore if you couldn't do that.
This is true. That opening mission just conveys all the games many little nuances beautifully, and teaches the player how to properly play the game. It's brilliantly executed, well paced, and gets to the point effeciently. And the stage it sets for the rest of the game? Absolutely marvelous.[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]
One, the intro level and cinematic was epic.
jg4xchamp
Lol, you didn't have to agree with me on that one. I was just trying to derail the topic, because it sucks.
[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]It's that the PMCs in MGS 4 were fun as hell to mess with. The robots you deal with in Act 4 and 5? F*cking dull as hell. DarkLink77Well, Act 4 and 5 are pretty poor by comparison to the first three, which are really good. But messing with MGS enemies has always been fun. It wouldn't be MGS anymore if you couldn't do that. Act 4 has Shadow Moses and the Metal Gear Rex stuff. What does Act 3 have? A lame follow the whistle guy sequence, a stupid motorcycle chase sequence that is too busy being cinematic before being fun, and probably the 2nd worst boss fight in that game(mantis takes the cake, vamp doesn't really count). That act sucked balls. Act 4 had homage points. Can't hate on homage points.
[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]It's that the PMCs in MGS 4 were fun as hell to mess with. The robots you deal with in Act 4 and 5? F*cking dull as hell. DarkLink77Well, Act 4 and 5 are pretty poor by comparison to the first three, which are really good. But messing with MGS enemies has always been fun. It wouldn't be MGS anymore if you couldn't do that.
Blasphemy. Act 4 was the highpoint of the game. Except for Otacon crying. that kind of pissed on the awesomeness, but then a batsh*t crazy mech sequence breaks out and totally makes up for it.
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]It's that the PMCs in MGS 4 were fun as hell to mess with. The robots you deal with in Act 4 and 5? F*cking dull as hell. jg4xchampWell, Act 4 and 5 are pretty poor by comparison to the first three, which are really good. But messing with MGS enemies has always been fun. It wouldn't be MGS anymore if you couldn't do that. Act 4 has Shadow Moses and the Metal Gear Rex stuff. What does Act 3 have? A lame follow the whistle guy sequence, a stupid motorcycle chase sequence that is too busy being cinematic before being fun, and probably the 2nd worst boss fight in that game(mantis takes the cake, vamp doesn't really count). That act sucked balls. Act 4 had homage points. Can't hate on homage points. ...Damn I totally forgot what you do in Act 3. Guess it must not have been that good. So yes, I revise that statement. Act 4 was good. Act 3 and 5 suck.
I never really stopped being there. I thought those ads were really well done. I don't think you need the EU stuff to believe that the Chief can do anything. That's been made pretty obvious in the games. Well, that wasn't the intention at all. Sorry if came off that way. :(DarkLink77No, but it made them feel a little more meaningful, for me at least.
Thanks...
[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Well, Act 4 and 5 are pretty poor by comparison to the first three, which are really good. But messing with MGS enemies has always been fun. It wouldn't be MGS anymore if you couldn't do that.DarkLink77Act 4 has Shadow Moses and the Metal Gear Rex stuff. What does Act 3 have? A lame follow the whistle guy sequence, a stupid motorcycle chase sequence that is too busy being cinematic before being fun, and probably the 2nd worst boss fight in that game(mantis takes the cake, vamp doesn't really count). That act sucked balls. Act 4 had homage points. Can't hate on homage points. ...Damn I totally forgot what you do in Act 3. Guess it must not have been that good. So yes, I revise that statement. Act 4 was good. Act 3 and 5 suck.
Act 5 wasn't bad. The level opened up a little bit and gave you some more opportunities for doing super stealthy stuff, and ended with a cool boss fight.
In retrospect act 3 is the only one that doesn't hold up well.
[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]They won't challenge you much on a stealth level no. The game is awesome though.Is the AI in Dishonored any good? I'm thinking about trading Blops 2 for that.
jg4xchamp
That's... disappointing to hear. My dream of a stealth oriented game with awesome AI continues to just be a dream.
It was sad but not that sad. Now Dom's death...That was sad.dreman999I wouldn't say it was sad, it was hilarious. Seriously, the flashback,s Dom's constant 'wah wah my wife, my wife, my wife'; it was like watching space marines partaking in a highschool drama production.
I haven't played Gears 3's campaign, and I've only seen the infamous 'Daaaaaaaad' cutscene, but I've heard good things, and interviews with the writer that I read in Edge were absolutely fantastic - she seemed to get it. The problem with a game like Gears, is that there's only so much you can do with it; the mechanical premise and narrative context are pretty thick boundaries to write a story with characters that reach outside of the predictable lines; or carry emotional gravity.
Personally I liked Gears 1's no nonsense approach to story almost well aware it doesn't matter, but hey, I'll give 3 a go eventually.
I love me some Catherine. jg4xchampAh but how about some Katherine?
So just played the trial version of To the Moon..... and oh boy is the dialogue terrible. It feels like it's written by either a high school wannabe or a college freshman trying to get a sitcom going. I feel like the entire game simply aims to be emotionally manipulative, but if there's any merit, it's playing through the actual premise, which is quite similar to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, though a bit more simple and saccharine. Yeah, I do want to play Catherine, it looks absolutely legit from everything I've seen. Deadly Premonition too. What did you think of Thirty Flights of Loving?FrozenLiquidGaaah that's a shame. Maybe it picks up over time? I've found that can be the case often enough, but still that doesn't bode well. Had a feeling it would be like Enternal Sunshine, which is a great premise to tackle; but still I like to think it does something a bit more interesting with those ideas, without straying too deep into basic emotional manipulation. Who knows, it might work like that and be better for it. Interestingly enough I started playing through Gemi Rue again properly, and there's that same stigma; some just cringeworthy writing here and there - and why of all things did they name the protagonist Azriel Odin. But still, it can be overlooked.
Hopefully To the Moon turns out to be the same.
You really should, I think you'll get a kick out of them. Also, if you're interested in a pretty ballsy, unique approach to game narrative, that's full of glorious cheese (like a Saturday morning cartoon), and well aware of it - Driver San Francisco. I still haven't played much of it, but the way it's written in combination with the game mechanics is surprisingly sublime, and interestingly enough it had the writer Tom Jubert onboard who has a pretty excellent blog about this kind of thing. It's more or less a cartoon Life on Mars meets Bullit / X car chase film.
I thought Thirty Flights was pretty good. Didn't quite have the same kick as Gravity Bone, but it was trying to do very different things. Ireally like how it fragmented the story, and added in the jump cuts, but the finale didn't quite add up to Gravity Bone's climax in terms of how the story wrapped up (the whole end bit of Gravity Bone isgodamn sublime). That and I really didn't like the whole 'this is how flight works' thing at the end. I adore Brendan Chung's work and all, and know he's doing it justbecause for a chuckle, but gah, didn't gel.
That and the removal of game mechanics, despite having so much about the action and movement seemed to do more harm then good. I never got an impression of what my characterdid. The other twodid things you didn't. You weren't the guns and mechanical dude, or the sniper who bakes, or even a super sneaky super spy - like in Gravity bone. You just walk; which considering the whole spy premise and all the rushing and action didn't gel to me. Ain't a Dear Esther in that regard.
But otherwise I enjoyed it, quite a bit! Have you given it a burl? What did you think?
@Skrat
[spoiler] I thought the game almost made it too obvious she wasn't real or that she was a demon. I mean yeah totally free spirit vs order and balance and stuff was nice, but it kind of cheapens the decision making.
My personal favorite part of the game is how it never explains the morality thing, but you just naturally react to it because blue means good, red means bad right? pfft sike...it has nothing to do with morality what so ever. F*cking brilliant. The questions it asked were goofy, but some of them were really vague, and then out of nowhere the game gets more direct with it. I had my finacee watch some of that stuff, and I had to be careful about what I picked lol [/spoiler]
Game is legit though. Lots of great story stuff, I love its take on relationships, and the puzzles were really good in between some lame ones. Plus the game instantly had me hooked when it opens up with Vince looking at Catherines finger tapping on the table. Was like "Yep, I KNOW THAT FINGER BRO, I know your pain" :lol:
So just played the trial version of To the Moon..... and oh boy is the dialogue terrible. It feels like it's written by either a high school wannabe or a college freshman trying to get a sitcom going. I feel like the entire game simply aims to be emotionally manipulative, but if there's any merit, it's playing through the actual premise, which is quite similar to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, though a bit more simple and saccharine.Well, I take it you didn't like Neil.[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="skrat_01"] Still have to play To the Moon, constantly hearing praise about it, still to this day. I've been put off by enough horrible pretentious, angsty anime - as much as I've seen some really excellent stuff, and the same goes for games (though I never cared for Final Fantasy or have tried to touted Persona games), but I'd recommend Catherine. It falls into a few trappings, but it's honestly one of the best games I've played this year. It's Qubert with a theme of infidelity and some excellent writing and really memorable characters; and better yet it's a game that I've seen surprise people who aren't familiar with games, to people who know them back to front. Pretty good stuff. Also, Deadly Premonition. On a mechanical level there's so much wrong with it, and the climax is something else entirely - but that doesn't matter. It's that strong blend of a Japanese interpretation of North America and Twin Peaks, with their own sensibilities coursing right through it. It's great.PannicAtack
Well, that's a bummer.
Yeah, Neil was a dealbreaker. His character reminded me of what I use to write when I first got into screenwriting. I also didn't like the silly "hey I'll die so you can finish the house" idea. Honestly, it feels really inauthentic, and the nigh on intellectually offensive when someone says "You'd rather her live than let her die? You selfish, arrogant, prick!".
There are some cool moments however, like the early banter with the children. It almost feels as if the writer, Kan Gao, needs to live a little bit more to write some great stuff. I'll probably buy it a little later to see where it goes, though.
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Well, I take it you didn't like Neil.[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"] So just played the trial version of To the Moon..... and oh boy is the dialogue terrible. It feels like it's written by either a high school wannabe or a college freshman trying to get a sitcom going. I feel like the entire game simply aims to be emotionally manipulative, but if there's any merit, it's playing through the actual premise, which is quite similar to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, though a bit more simple and saccharine.FrozenLiquid
Well, that's a bummer.
Yeah, Neil was a dealbreaker. His character reminded me of what I use to write when I first got into screenwriting. I also didn't like the silly "hey I'll die so you can finish the house" idea. Honestly, it feels really inauthentic, and the nigh on intellectually offensive when someone says "You'd rather her live than let her die? You selfish, arrogant, prick!".
There are some cool moments however, like the early banter with the children. It almost feels as if the writer, Kan Gao, needs to live a little bit more to write some great stuff. I'll probably buy it a little later to see where it goes, though.
:? If you simply think the idea that they can't pay for a house and a medical operation is forced, I won't argue that, nor will I argue with you about the dialogue. I find the characters likeable and the dialogue largely solid, so to each his own I suppose.But don't you think you're being a bit hard on the game, to question the motivations of characters 1 hour in? Especially the characters you've barely met by the end of the first hour.
Just going to play through the campaign now and find out, I will post my findings.
tenaka2
Meh, was ok I guess.
tenaka2
lmao
[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]
Thanks...
DarkLink77
Oh, God. Why the ellipses?
Sorry, didn't know what I was thinking that time.
[spoiler] check PM [/spoiler]
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Well, I take it you didn't like Neil.[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"] So just played the trial version of To the Moon..... and oh boy is the dialogue terrible. It feels like it's written by either a high school wannabe or a college freshman trying to get a sitcom going. I feel like the entire game simply aims to be emotionally manipulative, but if there's any merit, it's playing through the actual premise, which is quite similar to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, though a bit more simple and saccharine.FrozenLiquid
Well, that's a bummer.
Yeah, Neil was a dealbreaker. His character reminded me of what I use to write when I first got into screenwriting. I also didn't like the silly "hey I'll die so you can finish the house" idea. Honestly, it feels really inauthentic, and the nigh on intellectually offensive when someone says "You'd rather her live than let her die? You selfish, arrogant, prick!".
There are some cool moments however, like the early banter with the children. It almost feels as if the writer, Kan Gao, needs to live a little bit more to write some great stuff. I'll probably buy it a little later to see where it goes, though.
I actually really like Neil, because he actually gets some surprising character development. I also find that the banter helps to relieve the "serious" moments to keep them from getting too overbearing.Essentially he was the UNSC's Superman.[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]
[QUOTE="dreman999"] And what symbol did they make MCDarkLink77
Finally, someone who was paying attention.
I'm sorry but you can take anyone with the same abilities and trade them with MC and know would know the difference. A symbol is not just epic acts alone. Sorry but how someone treats you don't make you a symbol. Also, it's not the case halo4 that no one gives a crap but it's the case the the Captin of the infinity was an ass and they have spartans to spares. Added, the had not time the throw you a party because you facing an alien invasion.[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"]But it does. What make an epic character is how he acts not how other treat him. A character does no become a symbolic because people solute him.dreman999Most epic characters do not change, especially in mythology. Achilles does not change. He's the same in the beginning of Illiad as he is at the beginning. No, characters become symbolic because they jump out of ships with bombs so they can blow up capital ships single-handedly. Hercules changed. Odysseus changed. Perseus changed. Theseus changed.Heracles.
/smartass
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"]But it does. What make an epic character is how he acts not how other treat him. A character does no become a symbolic because people solute him.dreman999Most epic characters do not change, especially in mythology. Achilles does not change. He's the same in the beginning of Illiad as he is at the beginning. No, characters become symbolic because they jump out of ships with bombs so they can blow up capital ships single-handedly. Hercules changed. Odysseus changed. Perseus changed. Theseus changed.Most Greek myths don't even make sense, they're not really great stories. I mean the heroes are morons sometimes and really smart when they need to be. And tell me how those characters changed, pretty much all the greek heroes are very shallow characters.
I'm sorry but you can take anyone with the same abilities and trade them with MC and know would know the difference. A symbol is not just epic acts alone. Sorry but how someone treats you don't make you a symbol. Also, it's not the case halo4 that no one gives a crap but it's the case the the Captin of the infinity was an ass and they have spartans to spares. Added, the had not time the throw you a party because you facing an alien invasion.dreman999It's a matter of execution.
^^^They still consider him a hero in Halo 4, but it's just incredibly downplayed. The Spartan 4s seem to look up to him I've noticed, which makes sense.FireSpirit117That's just it, it's downplayed. I get that 343 wants to add more layers to chief, and maybe challenge the machine Bungie created(as lame as that dialogue was). But the surrounding characters should at this point be ready to give him a HJ if he asked for it. His reunion lacks any impact what so ever. It's almost completely brushed off. It does no justice to the character, and it really does no justice towards its audience either.
[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]^^^They still consider him a hero in Halo 4, but it's just incredibly downplayed. The Spartan 4s seem to look up to him I've noticed, which makes sense.jg4xchampThat's just it, it's downplayed. I get that 343 wants to add more layers to chief, and maybe challenge the machine Bungie created(as lame as that dialogue was). But the surrounding characters should at this point be ready to give him a HJ if he asked for it. His reunion lacks any impact what so ever. It's almost completely brushed off. It does no justice to the character, and it really does no justice towards its audience either. This. You would think the savior of the human race would be met with a little more than, "Sup, bro?" on the part of most everyone, save for Del Rio, who treats him with outright disrespect.
[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]^^^They still consider him a hero in Halo 4, but it's just incredibly downplayed. The Spartan 4s seem to look up to him I've noticed, which makes sense.DarkLink77That's just it, it's downplayed. I get that 343 wants to add more layers to chief, and maybe challenge the machine Bungie created(as lame as that dialogue was). But the surrounding characters should at this point be ready to give him a HJ if he asked for it. His reunion lacks any impact what so ever. It's almost completely brushed off. It does no justice to the character, and it really does no justice towards its audience either. This. You would think the savior of the human race would be met with a little more than, "Sup, bro?" on the part of most everyone, save for Del Rio, who treats him with outright disrespect.Like I said, it's still there. It's just poorly emphasized.
Nah, I don't think of it as a love story, well not romantic love anyway.
She IS a computer program for gosh sake.
[spoiler]
As a story of a partnership that stood the test of time, through thick and thin, and is now breaking apart and there's nothing either of them can do to stop it... it was pretty dam awesome. I loved how both Chief and Cortana had a range of reactions from denial ("I'm fine!" "Just focus") to hope ("We can get back to Halsey, she can fix me!") to acceptance ("I gotta stay behind so you can live") and despair (Chief freaking out and standing staring out the starship in the ending) It wasn't amazing but it was better then most game stories, and much better then Bungies "You are the final hope of Earth!" stuff imo.
[/spoiler]
Btw just looking at some of the ads/trailers you guys linked, they actually are faaaar more epic and emotionally stirring then anything in the Halo games, I wonder why that is? Imagine if Reach was as good as it's "Deliver Hope" trailer for example :shock:
After what he did in Halo 3 essentially saving the human race, ending the covenant war, and hey lets throw the galaxy in for good measure he should be on a whole different level of legendary level superhero to them.
The fact that no one has seen him in 4 years. He's become this all time great hero for their society. And then suddenly is back, to top it off in a big time moment again? Their reunion should have something more going for it. jg4xchamp
Yeah that was a problem I had. It's essentially as if Jesus Christ just strolled into the room and said "Hey guys, I'm back to end some more SIN!" and everyone just sorta said "Cool" and then one guy yelled at him...
This. You would think the savior of the human race would be met with a little more than, "Sup, bro?" on the part of most everyone, save for Del Rio, who treats him with outright disrespect.Like I said, it's still there. It's just poorly emphasized.[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] That's just it, it's downplayed. I get that 343 wants to add more layers to chief, and maybe challenge the machine Bungie created(as lame as that dialogue was). But the surrounding characters should at this point be ready to give him a HJ if he asked for it. His reunion lacks any impact what so ever. It's almost completely brushed off. It does no justice to the character, and it really does no justice towards its audience either. FireSpirit117
Context. Who are these people that are greeting him? I would expect them to be the silent professionals that are typical of their rank. If anything, you could hear the regular marines and even the younger spartans do a double take or make a comment. That seemed fine to me.
I definitely would not expect anyone to hold a parade or swoon in his presence. That would be extremely cheesy. I think Commander Lasky showed an appropriate amount of reserved admiration, realizing that there are more important things to do than act all star-struck.
This. You would think the savior of the human race would be met with a little more than, "Sup, bro?" on the part of most everyone, save for Del Rio, who treats him with outright disrespect.Like I said, it's still there. It's just poorly emphasized. Indeed. I just feel like it should have been more overt, and his surviving should have been a little more, "We thought you were dead. Like, we built monuments to you."[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] That's just it, it's downplayed. I get that 343 wants to add more layers to chief, and maybe challenge the machine Bungie created(as lame as that dialogue was). But the surrounding characters should at this point be ready to give him a HJ if he asked for it. His reunion lacks any impact what so ever. It's almost completely brushed off. It does no justice to the character, and it really does no justice towards its audience either. FireSpirit117
It's a matter of execution.[QUOTE="dreman999"] I'm sorry but you can take anyone with the same abilities and trade them with MC and know would know the difference. A symbol is not just epic acts alone. Sorry but how someone treats you don't make you a symbol. Also, it's not the case halo4 that no one gives a crap but it's the case the the Captin of the infinity was an ass and they have spartans to spares. Added, the had not time the throw you a party because you facing an alien invasion.jg4xchamp
[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]Like I said, it's still there. It's just poorly emphasized. Indeed. I just feel like it should have been more overt, and his surviving should have been a little more, "We thought you were dead. Like, we built monuments to you." Your telling me that these people should take the time to bow to a hero in the middle of an invasion?[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] This. You would think the savior of the human race would be met with a little more than, "Sup, bro?" on the part of most everyone, save for Del Rio, who treats him with outright disrespect.DarkLink77
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]Like I said, it's still there. It's just poorly emphasized.dreman999Indeed. I just feel like it should have been more overt, and his surviving should have been a little more, "We thought you were dead. Like, we built monuments to you." Your telling me that these people should take the time to bow to a hero in the middle of an invasion? I'm saying that a little more "Sir, you're not gonna believe this" would have gone a long way.
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