For those who stated that Smash Bros Melee is a fighting game without any depth or skill, this is for you. Melee is now part of Evo 2k7.
For those of you unfamiliar with the Evo Championship series, it's pretty much the biggest fighting game championship series in North America. Other entries to the list include: Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, Virtua Fighter 5, Tekken 5: DR, Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Guilty Gear XX Slash and Capcom vs SNK 2.
I figure I'd give a positive Smash related thread to balance off my other negative Smash thread. :)
W00T! i've always argued, quite effectively, that SSB was THE SINGLE MOST DEEP fighting game on the market......thats not to say there are not similarly deep fighting games but none that utilized the depth that SSB did. Fighting in SSB is about anticipating your opponnents movements and attacks and then responding with rythm and intelligence. Im glad SSB is getting the credit it deserves; i've never played a more brutal, fast paced and devastating game in my life.
i like brawl and think that it will be an excellent game, but i got destracted by street fighter 3: 3rd strike, guilty gear xx slash, and capcom vs snk 2 (i love 2d fighters)
I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion.
I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
Thats a valid opinion; but what indicates to you that SSB is "popular" ? Halo is popular, FF is popular........why? Because of intense sales figures and name brand recognition...........but SSB? I think thats a series that could be classified as underground. If SSB is so popular then why did N64 and GC sell so poorly? If SSB where a popular as you claim, that it could override a sever lack of gameplay depth, than wouldnt the sales of those systems be vastly larger? Dont take my questioning as hostile or anything like that; i just think its a subject worth discussing in some depth and these questions could get us there.
I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
If Evo wanted publicity, they would be holding Halo/Gears of War Tournies.
I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
Cool, I can't wait for SSBB online. I'm not one to go to tournaments but that's cool to know. SSBM is a really deep fighting game, and those who don't know have probably never played it to the level of a real competition battle.
I usually hate fighting games, I think they are repetitive, boring, etc.... but SSB is the only one I like, I spent tons of hours playing SSB and SSBM with my friends and had a great time. Currently SSBB is my most anticipated Wii title.
I can't understand that, but it's your opinion. In my honest opinion, SSBM just trashes the original SSB. SSB was too slow paced compared to SSBM, SSBM had more characters and the older ones were better balanced now, there are a whole lot of new moves to do like wave dashing, L canceling and more... SSBM just raised the bar and trashed SSB.... it's like impossible to play SSB after playing SSBM.
Wish NoC was still here, he could do his classic shtick of saying how SSB(M) is not deep it lacks combos, any skill etc. Then we would watch him talk about how many frames each move takes, man I miss those days.
[QUOTE="Rob2223"]i loved SSB, but i hate SSB: M.yoshi_64
I can't understand that, but it's your opinion. In my honest opinion, SSBM just trashes the original SSB. SSB was too slow paced compared to SSBM, SSBM had more characters and the older ones were better balanced now, there are a whole lot of new moves to do like wave dashing, L canceling and more... SSBM just raised the bar and trashed SSB.... it's like impossible to play SSB after playing SSBM. I agree. Melee puts the original to shame. And yes, smash bros. is a very deep game.
[QUOTE="Rob2223"]i loved SSB, but i hate SSB: M.yoshi_64
I can't understand that, but it's your opinion. In my honest opinion, SSBM just trashes the original SSB. SSB was too slow paced compared to SSBM, SSBM had more characters and the older ones were better balanced now, there are a whole lot of new moves to do like wave dashing, L canceling and more... SSBM just raised the bar and trashed SSB.... it's like impossible to play SSB after playing SSBM.
i just dont like the GC controller, and the controls were awkward for me......
SSB controls > SSBM controls......thats what it came down to for me, but ya everyone has their opinion :D
[QUOTE="yoshi_64"][QUOTE="Rob2223"]i loved SSB, but i hate SSB: M.Rob2223
I can't understand that, but it's your opinion. In my honest opinion, SSBM just trashes the original SSB. SSB was too slow paced compared to SSBM, SSBM had more characters and the older ones were better balanced now, there are a whole lot of new moves to do like wave dashing, L canceling and more... SSBM just raised the bar and trashed SSB.... it's like impossible to play SSB after playing SSBM.
i just dont like the GC controller, and the controls were awkward for me......
SSB controls > SSBM controls......thats what it came down to for me, but ya everyone has their opinion :DOh... I LOVED the GC controller for the game. Seriously, I'm hoping SSBB will let me use my GC controllers, cause this game was just made for it. The GC's layout was just made for this game IMHO, and everything flows so well.
[QUOTE="Rob2223"][QUOTE="yoshi_64"][QUOTE="Rob2223"]i loved SSB, but i hate SSB: M.yoshi_64
I can't understand that, but it's your opinion. In my honest opinion, SSBM just trashes the original SSB. SSB was too slow paced compared to SSBM, SSBM had more characters and the older ones were better balanced now, there are a whole lot of new moves to do like wave dashing, L canceling and more... SSBM just raised the bar and trashed SSB.... it's like impossible to play SSB after playing SSBM.
i just dont like the GC controller, and the controls were awkward for me......
SSB controls > SSBM controls......thats what it came down to for me, but ya everyone has their opinion :DOh... I LOVED the GC controller for the game. Seriously, I'm hoping SSBB will let me use my GC controllers, cause this game was just made for it. The GC's layout was just made for this game IMHO, and everything flows so well.
lol, i hated the Z button :evil: i dunno....i just never got used to the controller / controls
I dont care if people say its nto the deepest fighting game: It is the funnest fighting game and has the most value(for a fighting game) Conker-Fan
Saying it wasn't deep was ammo the haters used against Smash. Now that Smash has been picked up by Evo, it pretty much makes the statement that the hardcore fighting game fanatics in North America accepted it as one of it's own. It's almost a beautiful thing to watch, like how a cat gives birth to kittens. *wipes tears*
[QUOTE="yoshi_64"][QUOTE="Rob2223"][QUOTE="yoshi_64"][QUOTE="Rob2223"]i loved SSB, but i hate SSB: M.Rob2223
I can't understand that, but it's your opinion. In my honest opinion, SSBM just trashes the original SSB. SSB was too slow paced compared to SSBM, SSBM had more characters and the older ones were better balanced now, there are a whole lot of new moves to do like wave dashing, L canceling and more... SSBM just raised the bar and trashed SSB.... it's like impossible to play SSB after playing SSBM.
i just dont like the GC controller, and the controls were awkward for me......
SSB controls > SSBM controls......thats what it came down to for me, but ya everyone has their opinion :DOh... I LOVED the GC controller for the game. Seriously, I'm hoping SSBB will let me use my GC controllers, cause this game was just made for it. The GC's layout was just made for this game IMHO, and everything flows so well.
lol, i hated the Z button :evil: i dunno....i just never got used to the controller / controls
I would find myself using Z and R/L+A alternatively. I pressed Z to throw items or catch them in mid air (unless I air dodged) and then for grabs and throws, I usually press R/L+A
[QUOTE="Rob2223"][QUOTE="yoshi_64"][QUOTE="Rob2223"][QUOTE="yoshi_64"][QUOTE="Rob2223"]i loved SSB, but i hate SSB: M.yoshi_64
I can't understand that, but it's your opinion. In my honest opinion, SSBM just trashes the original SSB. SSB was too slow paced compared to SSBM, SSBM had more characters and the older ones were better balanced now, there are a whole lot of new moves to do like wave dashing, L canceling and more... SSBM just raised the bar and trashed SSB.... it's like impossible to play SSB after playing SSBM.
i just dont like the GC controller, and the controls were awkward for me......
SSB controls > SSBM controls......thats what it came down to for me, but ya everyone has their opinion :DOh... I LOVED the GC controller for the game. Seriously, I'm hoping SSBB will let me use my GC controllers, cause this game was just made for it. The GC's layout was just made for this game IMHO, and everything flows so well.
lol, i hated the Z button :evil: i dunno....i just never got used to the controller / controls
I would find myself using Z and R/L+A alternatively. I pressed Z to throw items or catch them in mid air (unless I air dodged) and then for grabs and throws, I usually press R/L+A Whoa, you can catch items thrown at you.....dang, this game is deep,...i always air dodged
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Stabby2486
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA
Looks very deep to me.
Looks can be deceiving. Playing a game is the only way to truly tell the depth. But like I said, just my opinion.
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA
Looks very deep to me.
Looks can be deceiving. Playing a game is the only way to truly tell the depth. But like I said, just my opinion.  Â
Check out his other videos, he shows advanced techniques in 4 of them. I would learn all of them now but wave dashing is so dang hard.
SSBB will be nice. SSBM although didn't have a very complex move set, it certainly took advantage of strategy, air fighting, timing, dodging, and out-witting plus the move set to make it one of the hardest games to master. BTW, You can call me King Falco ;) Once it comes out on the Wii (and few days to get used to the new controls) prepare to be pwned :D
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA
Looks very deep to me.
Looks can be deceiving. Playing a game is the only way to truly tell the depth. But like I said, just my opinion.I'm just curious to know whether or not you've actually played the game competitively.
If Smash was indeed lacking in depth and skill, I doubt it would be as big a fighter as it is now. People would have grown tired of it by now.
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA
Looks very deep to me.
Looks can be deceiving. Playing a game is the only way to truly tell the depth. But like I said, just my opinion.
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Redmoonxl2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA
Looks very deep to me.
Looks can be deceiving. Playing a game is the only way to truly tell the depth. But like I said, just my opinion.I'm just curious to know whether or not you've actually played the game competitively.
If Smash was indeed lacking in depth and skill, I doubt it would be as big a fighter as it is now. People would have grown tired of it by now. If people say that SSBM lacks depth, I usually just show them these videos. It ususally shuts them up :) Advance how to play SSBM 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE Advance how to play SSBM 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiZLs2doK8E&mode=related&search= Advance how to play SSBM 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFmGIOcWdsM&mode=related&search=
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. -RPGamer-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA
Looks very deep to me.
Looks can be deceiving. Playing a game is the only way to truly tell the depth. But like I said, just my opinion.
It's not a really good video of SSBM anyway :?
I find this video to be a better example of skill, especially since Donkey Kong is a pain to master. http://youtube.com/watch?v=vVKdmXjWnKU
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Redmoonxl2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA
Looks very deep to me.
Looks can be deceiving. Playing a game is the only way to truly tell the depth. But like I said, just my opinion.I'm just curious to know whether or not you've actually played the game competitively.
If Smash was indeed lacking in depth and skill, I doubt it would be as big a fighter as it is now. People would have grown tired of it by now. And that is where your logic is flawed. A game (Be it fighter, FPS, RTS) doesn't have to be deep to be fun or last a long time. If that was true then the Civ series would be the most popular series ever. The answer to your first answer is no, I've never played competitively. But I also don't think you have to be labeled a pro to judge a game. I've owned SSB and SSBM since the days they both came out. I've watched the competitions at PAX and seen tournaments. I even played some freeplay two years ago against some of the people who competed.
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Kaarstein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA
Looks very deep to me.
Looks can be deceiving. Playing a game is the only way to truly tell the depth. But like I said, just my opinion.I'm just curious to know whether or not you've actually played the game competitively.
If Smash was indeed lacking in depth and skill, I doubt it would be as big a fighter as it is now. People would have grown tired of it by now. If people say that SSBM lacks depth, I usually just show them these videos. It ususally shuts them up :) Advance how to play SSBM 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE Advance how to play SSBM 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiZLs2doK8E&mode=related&search= Advance how to play SSBM 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFmGIOcWdsM&mode=related&search=
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Stabby2486
And that is where your logic is flawed. A game (Be it fighter, FPS, RTS) doesn't have to be deep to be fun or last a long time. If that was true then the Civ series would be the most popular series ever.Ibacai
How does my logic fail? While what you say is true, that doesn't mean Smash is lacking in depth. As I stated before. if Smash was lacking in depth, the game would just be popular for the small time the game was released. Here we are in 2007, and the game continues to go strong after 5 to 6 years. A shallow game wouldn't have lasted that long.
Also, there's a reason why Civ is not a popular game in tourny scenes: It's too slow.
The answer to your first answer is no, I've never played competitively.Ibacai
[QUOTE="MaTT2011"]W00T! i've always argued, quite effectively, that SSB was THE SINGLE MOST DEEP fighting game on the market......thats not to say there are not similarly deep fighting games but none that utilized the depth that SSB did. Fighting in SSB is about anticipating your opponnents movements and attacks and then responding with rythm and intelligence. Im glad SSB is getting the credit it deserves; i've never played a more brutal, fast paced and devastating game in my life. QFT it's a "different" type of fighting game.
I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance sold 2 million copies, making it one of the best selling North American fighting games this genl, so why isn't it at Evo? I mean it's popular.
Well I guess I should start training.slothboyadvance
I think I just might get into the tourny scene since I have a big gap from being laid off and getting ready to return to school. Might go with Smash and Street Fighter 3: Third Strike.
[QUOTE="Ibacai"]And that is where your logic is flawed. A game (Be it fighter, FPS, RTS) doesn't have to be deep to be fun or last a long time. If that was true then the Civ series would be the most popular series ever.Redmoonxl2
How does my logic fail? While what you say is true, that doesn't mean Smash is lacking in depth. As I stated before. if Smash was lacking in depth, the game would just be popular for the small time the game was released. Here we are in 2007, and the game continues to go strong after 5 to 6 years. A shallow game wouldn't have lasted that long.
Also, there's a reason why Civ is not a popular game in tourny scenes: It's too slow.
The answer to your first answer is no, I've never played competitively.Ibacai
Thought so. :) Then tell me why Counter Strike is still one of the top FPS games? Doesn't take depth to have a game last. Just look at the new Mario on the DS (Yes, you can master mario and do all sorts of cool things. But it's still not a deep game). Another thing you might be thinking is that I think SSBM has no depth. Well, that's not true but it doesn't compare with say VF. Edit : And my reason for it going to Evo was just a guess. Feel free to bash it all you want.
[QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"][QUOTE="Ibacai"]And that is where your logic is flawed. A game (Be it fighter, FPS, RTS) doesn't have to be deep to be fun or last a long time. If that was true then the Civ series would be the most popular series ever.Ibacai
How does my logic fail? While what you say is true, that doesn't mean Smash is lacking in depth. As I stated before. if Smash was lacking in depth, the game would just be popular for the small time the game was released. Here we are in 2007, and the game continues to go strong after 5 to 6 years. A shallow game wouldn't have lasted that long.
Also, there's a reason why Civ is not a popular game in tourny scenes: It's too slow.
The answer to your first answer is no, I've never played competitively.Ibacai
Thought so. :) Then tell me why Counter Strike is still one of the top FPS games? Doesn't take depth to have a game last. Just look at the new Mario on the DS (Yes, you can master mario and do all sorts of cool things. But it's still not a deep game). Another thing you might be thinking is that I think SSBM has no depth. Well, that's not true but it doesn't compare with say VF.
Counter Strike and New Super Mario Bros are completely different from Smash...Also, the depth found in Counter Strike is in it's team play and the ability to succeed as a team. As for New Super Mario Bros, I have no idea what connection you're trying to make since it's not even a multiplayer game. :|
Also, I feel that the depth found in VF is different from Smash. Smash is more of a mindgame fighter as opposed to a technical fighter like VF. Both are equal in depth in their own right.
[QUOTE="Ibacai"][QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"][QUOTE="Ibacai"]And that is where your logic is flawed. A game (Be it fighter, FPS, RTS) doesn't have to be deep to be fun or last a long time. If that was true then the Civ series would be the most popular series ever.Redmoonxl2
How does my logic fail? While what you say is true, that doesn't mean Smash is lacking in depth. As I stated before. if Smash was lacking in depth, the game would just be popular for the small time the game was released. Here we are in 2007, and the game continues to go strong after 5 to 6 years. A shallow game wouldn't have lasted that long.
Also, there's a reason why Civ is not a popular game in tourny scenes: It's too slow.
The answer to your first answer is no, I've never played competitively.Ibacai
Thought so. :) Then tell me why Counter Strike is still one of the top FPS games? Doesn't take depth to have a game last. Just look at the new Mario on the DS (Yes, you can master mario and do all sorts of cool things. But it's still not a deep game). Another thing you might be thinking is that I think SSBM has no depth. Well, that's not true but it doesn't compare with say VF.
Counter Strike and New Super Mario Bros are completely different from Smash...Also, the depth found in Counter Strike is in it's team play and the ability to succeed as a team. As for New Super Mario Bros, I have no idea what connection you're trying to make since it's not even a multiplayer game. :|
Also, I feel that the depth found in VF is different from Smash. Smash is more of a mindgame fighter as opposed to a technical fighter like VF. Both are equal in depth in their own right. My whole point with the new Super Mario is that the formula hasn't changed. Doesn't matter if it's not Multiplayer. And if it was all about team tactics, then more people would still be playing older Rainbow Six games multiplayer. But we are thinking to differently. I'm done, have fun with the tourney (That's not sarcasm either).
I love SSBM, it's a fantastic game. However, it is not deep at all. The fact that it is going to Evo means that it is popular and they want more publicity. I know I know, just my opinion. Ibacai
My whole point with the new Super Mario is that the formula hasn't changed. Doesn't matter if it's not Multiplayer. And if it was all about team tactics, then more people would still be playing older Rainbow Six games multiplayer.Ibacai
The New Super Mario Bros reference still doesn't make sense, in my view. If you are comparing the way formulas haven't changed over the years, I don't know how you can make that comparison with Smash since Smash 64 and Melee are two completely different beasts.
As for team tactics, it's still where most of the depth team based games come from, no matter what game.
But we are thinking to differently. I'm done, have fun with the tourney (That's not sarcasm either).Ibacai
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