Final arguement about 360-ps3 graphics!

IMO the 360 is graphically superior but the PS3 is superior in terms of processing. So the 360 can pump out smoother and slightly better looking graphics but the ps3 probably has better framerates, slightly bigger worlds e.t.c

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

"Final argument"?

HA!  :lol:

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

 

Game13a13y

What do you expect them say?  I doubt Bungie is going to come out and praise PS3 either....factor5 or level 5 is working on an exclusive PS3 game.  The more they talk up the PS3 the more it's possible PS3 consoles get sold which means greater the chance that Lair becomes a multimillion seller. 

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

Game13a13y

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

[QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

REVENGEotSITH

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

[QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

REVENGEotSITH

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

sure, i do admit that they do have some fanboyism in them when they are talking about it. but there is some fact from what they are saying that can't be ignored too. the world in Lair is so large and so detailed that it can't be done on Xbox360. they even compared it with Gears of Wars. GW does have nice graphics, but the map is much smaller, and the amount of animated characters are much lesser too.

if you fail to recognize what they are saying, then i guess you're a bigger FANBOY than them.

[QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

NYCgamer47

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

[QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

Game13a13y

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

sure, i do admit that they do have some fanboyism in them when they are talking about it. but there is some fact from what they are saying that can't be ignored too. the world in Lair is so large and so detailed that it can't be done on Xbox360. they even compared it with Gears of Wars. GW does have nice graphics, but the map is much smaller, and the amount of animated characters are much lesser too.

if you fail to recognize what they are saying, then i guess you're a bigger FANBOY than them.

Problem is you are saying the world is so large and detailed without seeing the final product.  I would wait to crown Lair king....at least until it's released lol.

Right now Factor 5's comments on PS3 being more powerful is an opinion.  It becomes fact when the game is released and proves it.

[QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

NYCgamer47

Ummm - it's Factor 5. Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair? I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks. It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful. Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

Fact is we have yet to see the PS3 to deliver on the so called "fact" that it is more powerful than X360. 

[QUOTE="NYCgamer47"][QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

ToScA-

Ummm - it's Factor 5. Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair? I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks. It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful. Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

Fact is we have yet to see the PS3 to deliver on the so called "fact" that it is more powerful than X360. 

Exactly.  If this is such a "fact", then why do we see such crap like Genji, Gundam, Untold Legends, F1, Full Auto 2, and NBA07?  Shouldn't these games be leaps and bounds better than what they are?

[QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

NYCgamer47

Ummm - it's Factor 5. Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair? I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks. It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful. Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

 Fact is you bring up no actual evidence to back up what has become nothing more then a claim.  You know what this means?  This means that the dead horse we are beating is actually not which is stronger, but your claim.

which is superior??CONSOLE_KING

Both have INCREDIBLE looking excluisve games, but 360 has 10x those of PS3 in number, so if FF13 comes to 360 as seems to be the case, PS3 is far far behind

Developers have said time and time again that the PS3 has a far more powerful CPU, which can be used in an auxillary manner to process graphics and video. We're already beginning to see games that rival or surpass traditional X360 graphics, such as MotorStorm. Lair and Heavenly Sword are looking to surpass the X360's graphics, as well.NYCgamer47

gears of war
masseffect
alanwake
too human

IMO the 360 is graphically superior but the PS3 is superior in terms of processing. So the 360 can pump out smoother and slightly better looking graphics but the ps3 probably has better framerates, slightly bigger worlds e.t.c

Spartan378

learn before you post

[QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

NYCgamer47

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

a look back
ps2 had 2X more tflops then xbox

now
ps3 has .5 times more tflops,

thats just the basics, i wont go into detail

[QUOTE="NYCgamer47"][QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

Radeon_X1950XTX

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

a look back
ps2 had 2X more tflops then xbox

now
ps3 has .5 times more tflops,

thats just the basics, i wont go into detail

PS. To anyone claiming Lair's graphics are all that, remember that no one in Factor 5 has said that the character models in the game are as detailed as those in Gears of War, or else someone would've already dared to compare extreme in-the-face close-ups.

Seriously I think that right now they are about the same.

Developers have said time and time again that the PS3 has a far more powerful CPU, which can be used in an auxillary manner to process graphics and video. We're already beginning to see games that rival or surpass traditional X360 graphics, such as MotorStorm. Lair and Heavenly Sword are looking to surpass the X360's graphics, as well.NYCgamer47

lol, gears of war looks better than all 3.

Who knows...I can tell you no one in system wars does,and you wont get an unbiased answer.We will have to wait untill the end of each consoles life cycle to see.

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

 

Game13a13y

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

 When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games-by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services-will outperform the PlayStation 3.

no one remembers this huh^^^^^

[QUOTE="NYCgamer47"][QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

Radeon_X1950XTX

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

a look back
ps2 had 2X more tflops then xbox

now
ps3 has .5 times more tflops,

thats just the basics, i wont go into detail

[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="NYCgamer47"][QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"][QUOTE="Game13a13y"]

Level 5 has already said that PS 3's cell processer has more power than Xbox360 when they're developing Lair.

Riverwolf007

Ummm - it's Factor 5.  Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they say this because they are under contract by Sony to develop Lair?  I thought they'd come out and say "you know, we've spent a lot of time with the PS3 and it just stinks.  It's probably the worst system we've ever developed for and the 360 is probably more powerful.  Oh, and go out and buy Lair when we finally release it."

Fact has it that PS3 is more powerful than X360, overall. Stop beating a dead horse.

a look back
ps2 had 2X more tflops then xbox

now
ps3 has .5 times more tflops,

thats just the basics, i wont go into detail

1) The Cell's SPEs don't work well with complex, branch-heavy tasks like AI.

HuusAsking

 2 misconceptions at work here:  a) AI code needs to be "branchy" to work well and b) current game AI is "complex".  Neither are really true.

2) Any part of the Cell dedicated to augmenting the graphics can't be used in the game in general.

HuusAsking

3) Anything the Cell does to augment the graphics has to go through two buses: the CPU-GPU interconnect and the CPU-XDRAM bridge. So if the GPU has to pull a lot of data from the CPU space (as would be the case with Lair), there's the chance of a bottleneck.

HuusAsking

The RSX can read data directly from the XDR, since it has a dedicated FlexIO connection.  There's still bottleneck issues like with any bus, but its certainly doable.

PS. To anyone claiming Lair's graphics are all that, remember that no one in Factor 5 has said that the character models in the game are as detailed as those in Gears of War, or else someone would've already dared to compare extreme in-the-face close-ups.

HuusAsking

They're two different types of games.  Gears has tremendous detail on the characters, since there's very few of them on screen at any given time and because the environments are small.  Lair is the exact opposite. 

=

Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential.

BillGates_Money

You severely underestimate game developers.  They're some of the best programmers out there.  A lot of them managed to produce fantastic results on the PS2, which had almost zero development support. 

No one knows yet. We will have to wait and see in the years to come.BioShockOwnz

we have no idea how much of a performance jump the cell will give the rsx

In short and simple terms:

It's not really a question of which has more powerful hardware (you'd pretty much have to give it to PS3), but a question of whether economic and development factors will allow PS3 developers to use the hardware well enough to make up for the 360 developers' one year head start.
Teufelhuhn

some already have...

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=18689&type=mov

In short and simple terms:

It's not really a question of which has more powerful hardware (you'd pretty much have to give it to PS3), but a question of whether economic and development factors will allow PS3 developers to use the hardware well enough to make up for the 360 developers' one year head start.
Teufelhuhn

 2 misconceptions at work here:  a) AI code needs to be "branchy" to work well and b) current game AI is "complex".  Neither are really true.Teufelhuhn

The Cell has six SPE's available to devs.  Dedicating one to cloth physics isn't exactly a huge allocations of resources, unliking dedicating a whole core on the 360.Teufelhuhn

The RSX can read data directly from the XDR, since it has a dedicated FlexIO connection.  There's still bottleneck issues like with any bus, but its certainly doable.

Teufelhuhn

Not according to the charts Sony itself provides. Otherwise, there would be a separate line between the RSX and the XDRAM--or better yet, the RSX would be in the center of the chart. Every chart I've seen has the RSX going through the FlexIO to the CPU and from there to the XDRAM. In any event, there's the bottleneck of the CPU and GPU trying to access memory at the same time. Despite its clocked speed, there's still a bandwidth limit. I've taken courses on logic, discrete logic, programming, and computer science, so I do know a thing or two about organizational charts, particularly when it comes to logic units.

They're two different types of games.  Gears has tremendous detail on the characters, since there's very few of them on screen at any given time and because the environments are small.  Lair is the exact opposite. Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Sorry, pal. I've actually taken AI courses. AI is basically nothing but decisions--IOW, lots and lots of conditionals. Not according to the charts Sony itself provides. Otherwise, there would be a separate line between the RSX and the XDRAM--or better yet, the RSX would be in the center of the chart. Every chart I've seen has the RSX going through the FlexIO to the CPU and from there to the XDRAM. In any event, there's the bottleneck of the CPU and GPU trying to access memory at the same time. Despite its clocked speed, there's still a bandwidth limit. I've taken courses on logic, discrete logic, programming, and computer science, so I do know a thing or two about organizational charts, particularly when it comes to logic units.KageMonkey

"Final argument"?

HA! :lol:

DementedDragon

Yeah seriously. This thread has failed before it even started.  We are going to see at least 5 more of these topics before the end of the week.

And who cares which system has the better graphics? I'm more interested in the games.  And you should all be too.

PS3 is more powerful

PC is more powerful then the PS3 and 360.

Get back in your hole. 

Its an embarrassment that this ever became an argument. A newer system priced $200 more is graphically comparable a one year older $200 cheaper console is just ridiculous.Blackbond

 the PS3 only came out a year later because of Manufacturing problems, the specs were never changed. The 360 and PS3 are basically the same generation of electronics. neither is superior, they each have their own ability's and downfalls.