Does everyone now agree Gabe Newell cares only about money?

It's fair to say that the purpose of a company is to make money. Valve is no different. However as most here will know Gabe Newell doesn't want to be developing games for the PS3. He often gets called lazy for that in this forum. People who like to defend him do so by stating he's not lazy but it's normal for a company to want to maximize profit. However the word milking is often used too in this forum. And that is the word that keeps springing to mind whenever I see anything or read about L4D2. Don't get me wrong, Valve is a great dev, the Orange Box was a fantastic deal, Portal was genius,HL2 a great game and L4D probably the most fun shooter I ever played online, but asking full price for L4D2? Right, that's just robbing the gamer. I mean, I realize times are rough with the financial crisis and all, but robbing your customers is not a very nice way to get through it. As for Gabe not liking the PS3, well the L4D business decision is telling me that his dislike most likely also come forth from greediness. The PS3 is more expensive to develop for, so if Gabe can't become even richer than he already is, easily,it's not interesting to him. I don't like that attitude. The devs that I do repect are the ones that actually care more for the games they produce than the money they make them (or at least care just as much about both). Valve's L4D2 not being an expansion, but full price plus the lazy/greedy PS3 decisions over the last few years has made me lose a lot of the respect I had for them.

/rant

Valve is a company, so of course he cares about money. At least the man actually takes the time out of his schedule to personally answer mail written by the fans...

In regards to the PS3. Valve doesn't develop for the platform as doing so would require a lot of time, money and resources and can therefore, not justify the development of their games on the PS3, as it is unlikely to make much money, compared to the PC and Xbox 360 versions. They are interested in giving their PS3 fans something however, as members of Valve have stated that they don't like the way they've been treating the PS3, and I believe they're interested in hiring staff for PS3 development.

Valve is a company, so of course he cares about money. At least the man actually takes the time out of his schedule to personally answer mail written by the fans...

Doom_HellKnight

Valve is a company, so of course he cares about money. At least the man actually takes the time out of his schedule to personally answer mail written by the fans...

In regards to the PS3. Valve doesn't develop for the platform as doing so would require a lot of time, money and resources and can therefore, not justify the development of their games on the PS3, as it is unlikely to make much money, compared to the PC and Xbox 360 versions. They are interested in giving their PS3 fans something however, as members of Valve have stated that they don't like the way they've been treating the PS3, and I believe they're interested in hiring staff for PS3 development.

Doom_HellKnight

So how would you explain pretty much every other third party developing for both the 360 and PS3 nowadays? They don't care they they can't make money on the PS3?

[QUOTE="Doom_HellKnight"]

Valve is a company, so of course he cares about money. At least the man actually takes the time out of his schedule to personally answer mail written by the fans...

X360PS3AMD05

Then why is he robbing the fans by asking full price for a map pack like L4D2? (okay there's also some melee weapons and three new boss monsters, but IT'S NO FULL GAME!)

Who does not want to make money.

Oh, Jesus people let it go! If you love Valve so much you would stop whining and help profit their games, like Left 4 Dead 2. Maybe Valve is in financial trouble and need the money? There is no devoloper that cares about the games over the money, not one. Get that through your heads! Gabe Newell is a fantastic and talented man, but he wants money. Everyone does.enterawesome

Kojima, some of Sony's first party studio's (the one behind SOTC for instance) make cult games, which aren't reallymaking money at a fast rate, From software (Demon's Soul) seems to take risk with game concepts, pretty much every studio that makes a game that is not mainstream is taking financial risks in favour of artistic decisions. Many companies do that.

[QUOTE="X360PS3AMD05"][QUOTE="Doom_HellKnight"]

Valve is a company, so of course he cares about money. At least the man actually takes the time out of his schedule to personally answer mail written by the fans...

Then why is he robbing the fans by asking full price for a map pack like L4D2? (okay there's also some melee weapons and three new boss monsters, but IT'S NO FULL GAME!)

Yes it is. Its more than what was in Left 4 Dead at launch, (which came out a year after The Orange Box) and everyone bought that, no complaints. Plus there is a new, un-announced mode, FIVE new campaigns, one more than that of L4D, new weapons, AI Director 2.0 with weather and level power, new enemies, Survival, Versus, thats twice L4D. They don't release on PS3, big deal, BioWare hasn't put Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2 on PS3, so their money hungry, greedy sons of ****** now. Just like Kojima, for not releasing MGS4 on 360. Stop whining, nobody will force you to but L4D2, and if you want it so bad, get a gaming PC ( the best way to play Valve games!)enterawesome

[QUOTE="enterawesome"]Oh, Jesus people let it go! If you love Valve so much you would stop whining and help profit their games, like Left 4 Dead 2. Maybe Valve is in financial trouble and need the money? There is no devoloper that cares about the games over the money, not one. Get that through your heads! Gabe Newell is a fantastic and talented man, but he wants money. Everyone does.NielsNL

Kojima, some of Sony's first party studio's (the one behind SOTC for instance) make cult games, which aren't reallymaking money at a fast rate, From software (Demon's Soul) seems to take risk with game concepts, pretty much every studio that makes a game that is not mainstream is taking financial risks in favour of artistic decisions. Many companies do that.

EDIT: Then again, those are exclusive to SONY platforms. Damn them, those greedy *******s! JUST like Valve and BioWare, and every other power hungry, sick corporation out there!

No they don't. It doesn't make any sense why they wouldn't sell their games on ps3. Economically I doubt it would costs more than 300,000 $ to port it to the ps3 without any damage to it (being nice probably cost even less than that). And probably 100k to even make par on their game (which they will probably make 500,000 to 1 million which would allow them to make profit). Valvedecides it because they just don't want to expand and add more programmers. Rather maintain a family in the company (I think).

[QUOTE="Doom_HellKnight"]

Valve is a company, so of course he cares about money. At least the man actually takes the time out of his schedule to personally answer mail written by the fans...

In regards to the PS3. Valve doesn't develop for the platform as doing so would require a lot of time, money and resources and can therefore, not justify the development of their games on the PS3, as it is unlikely to make much money, compared to the PC and Xbox 360 versions. They are interested in giving their PS3 fans something however, as members of Valve have stated that they don't like the way they've been treating the PS3, and I believe they're interested in hiring staff for PS3 development.

NielsNL

So how would you explain pretty much every other third party developing for both the 360 and PS3 nowadays? They don't care they they can't make money on the PS3?

They can do that because they aren't small and independent like Valve.

No they don't. It doesn't make any sense why they wouldn't sell their games on ps3. Economically I doubt it would costs more than 300,000 $ to port it to the ps3 without any damage to it (being nice probably cost even less than that). And probably 100k to even make par on their game (which they will probably make 500,000 to 1 million which would allow them to make profit). Valve decides it because they just don't want to expand and add more programmers. Rather maintain a family in the company (I think).

nhh18

They're hiring PS3 devs now, so that's not completely true. But still the PS3 discussion has been done too often before, so let's stick to L4D2.

Nope. While I'm not really enthusiastic about L4D2, it's just 1 game they are screwing up with, that's not enough reason to be calling them EA and whatnot.

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

No they don't. It doesn't make any sense why they wouldn't sell their games on ps3. Economically I doubt it would costs more than 300,000 $ to port it to the ps3 without any damage to it (being nice probably cost even less than that). And probably 100k to even make par on their game (which they will probably make 500,000 to 1 million which would allow them to make profit). Valve decides it because they just don't want to expand and add more programmers. Rather maintain a family in the company (I think).

NielsNL

They're hiring PS3 devs now, so that's not completely true. But still the PS3 discussion has been done too often before, so let's stick to L4D2.

Yes it is. Its more than what was in Left 4 Dead at launch, (which came out a year after The Orange Box) and everyone bought that, no complaints. Plus there is a new, un-announced mode, FIVE new campaigns, one more than that of L4D, new weapons, AI Director 2.0 with weather and level power, new enemies, Survival, Versus, thats twice L4D. They don't release on PS3, big deal, BioWare hasn't put Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2 on PS3, so their money hungry, greedy sons of ****** now. Just like Kojima, for not releasing MGS4 on 360. Stop whining, nobody will force you to but L4D2, and if you want it so bad, get a gaming PC ( the best way to play Valve games!)enterawesome

L4D at launch was a new game. A sequel that adds 5 (short) campaigns, 3 enemies, 1 game mode,some effects (like more zombies on screen)and melee weapons is more like an expansion to me. The AI director 2.0 (AI director is genius I must say) is just an improvement to the AI basically, also not that big of a deal that warrants full price IMO. And I play L4D on a gaming pc btw.

[QUOTE="enterawesome"] Yes it is. Its more than what was in Left 4 Dead at launch, (which came out a year after The Orange Box) and everyone bought that, no complaints. Plus there is a new, un-announced mode, FIVE new campaigns, one more than that of L4D, new weapons, AI Director 2.0 with weather and level power, new enemies, Survival, Versus, thats twice L4D. They don't release on PS3, big deal, BioWare hasn't put Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2 on PS3, so their money hungry, greedy sons of ****** now. Just like Kojima, for not releasing MGS4 on 360. Stop whining, nobody will force you to but L4D2, and if you want it so bad, get a gaming PC ( the best way to play Valve games!)NielsNL

L4D at launch was a new game. A sequel that adds 5 (short) campaigns, 3 enemies, 1 game mode,some effects (like more zombies on screen)and melee weapons is more like an expansion to me. The AI director 2.0 (AI director is genius I must say) is just an improvement to the AI basically, also not that big of a deal that warrants full price IMO. And I play L4D on a gaming pc btw.

[QUOTE="NielsNL"]

[QUOTE="enterawesome"] Yes it is. Its more than what was in Left 4 Dead at launch, (which came out a year after The Orange Box) and everyone bought that, no complaints. Plus there is a new, un-announced mode, FIVE new campaigns, one more than that of L4D, new weapons, AI Director 2.0 with weather and level power, new enemies, Survival, Versus, thats twice L4D. They don't release on PS3, big deal, BioWare hasn't put Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2 on PS3, so their money hungry, greedy sons of ****** now. Just like Kojima, for not releasing MGS4 on 360. Stop whining, nobody will force you to but L4D2, and if you want it so bad, get a gaming PC ( the best way to play Valve games!)enterawesome

L4D at launch was a new game. A sequel that adds 5 (short) campaigns, 3 enemies, 1 game mode,some effects (like more zombies on screen)and melee weapons is more like an expansion to me. The AI director 2.0 (AI director is genius I must say) is just an improvement to the AI basically, also not that big of a deal that warrants full price IMO. And I play L4D on a gaming pc btw.

Some of the games you mention you're perfectly correct are indeed just as much milking the consumer as L4D2 is. For others there was a much longer time between games and more radical changes / more new stuff. I mean:some meleeweapons, somewhat better technically, 5 campaings that take about an hour to play each and three new boss monsters. Aside from that it's the exact same game. It's just not a lot of content.

The game is lots of fun, I'm not bashing that. I just think it should half the price of a full retail game. There's not as much dev work in it as there is in a full fledged game.

[QUOTE="enterawesome"][QUOTE="NielsNL"]

L4D at launch was a new game. A sequel that adds 5 (short) campaigns, 3 enemies, 1 game mode,some effects (like more zombies on screen)and melee weapons is more like an expansion to me. The AI director 2.0 (AI director is genius I must say) is just an improvement to the AI basically, also not that big of a deal that warrants full price IMO. And I play L4D on a gaming pc btw.

Some of the games you mention you're perfectly correct are indeed just as much milking the consumer as L4D2 is. For others there was a much longer time between games and more radical changes / more new stuff. I mean:some meleeweapons, somewhat better technically, 5 campaings that take about an hour to play each and three new boss monsters. Aside from that it's the exact same game. It's just not a lot of content.

The game is lots of fun, I'm not bashing that. I just think it should half the price of a full retail game. There's not as much dev work in it as there is in a full fledged game.

Actually Gabe Newell stated himself that he disliked L4D2 being developed and released this early.

Actually Gabe Newell stated himself that he disliked L4D2 being developed and released this early.

SpinoRaptor24

Yeah?

Remember where you read it?

All those games are doing what Left 4 Dead is doing. I for one, lost several days of my life with Left 4 Dead, and I plan on doing it again. But every dev and publisher is after money so, as much as I would love to see it as well, we won't see a half price. As for the longer time and more changes, would you care to elaborate?enterawesome

Well, with five 1 hour campaings there is effectively 5 hours of new gameplay (of course with an online game it's not comepltely like that, but you catch my drift). The other games you mentioned have at least a 10 hour new campaign in the sequel. More new weapons, more new monsters, sometimes even a much more polished graphical presentation. Just moreto offer generally. Though you're right, L4D definately isn't the only game guilty of having incrementally improved sequels at full price .

Edit: the latter is what I'm ranting at: incremental improvements at full price. There's a skewed relationship between the amount of work that goes in and the amount of money they want to make of it.

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]

Actually Gabe Newell stated himself that he disliked L4D2 being developed and released this early.

NielsNL

Yeah?

Remember where you read it?

Here you go

"...So the team brought their ideas and concepts to Gabe Newell and even he was skeptical about the idea...claimed this move was against the character of the company..."

Link

[QUOTE="enterawesome"]All those games are doing what Left 4 Dead is doing. I for one, lost several days of my life with Left 4 Dead, and I plan on doing it again. But every dev and publisher is after money so, as much as I would love to see it as well, we won't see a half price. As for the longer time and more changes, would you care to elaborate?NielsNL

Well, with five 1 hour campaings there is effectively 5 hours of new gameplay (of course with an online game it's not comepltely like that, but you catch my drift). The other games you mentioned have at least a 10 hour new campaign in the sequel. More new weapons, more new monsters, sometimes even a much more polished graphical presentation. Just moreto offer generally. Though you're right, L4D definately isn't the only game guilty of having incrementally improved sequels at full price .

Edit: the latter is what I'm ranting at: incremental improvements at full price. There's a skewed relationship between the amount of work that goes in and the amount of money they want to make of it.

That's all ANY company head cares about.

[QUOTE="Doom_HellKnight"]

Valve is a company, so of course he cares about money. At least the man actually takes the time out of his schedule to personally answer mail written by the fans...

X360PS3AMD05

I'm sure most people here could run their games on PC anyway.

Here you go

"...So the team brought their ideas and concepts to Gabe Newell and even he was skeptical about the idea...claimed this move was against the character of the company..."SpinoRaptor24

Team should have listened. L4D2 is looking more like a dumb move for the whole community. Now they are worrying about things such as crossplay between L4D and L4D2 instead of focusing on adding more content to it.

It's fair to say that the purpose of a company is to make money. Valve is no different. However as most here will know Gabe Newell doesn't want to be developing games for the PS3. He often gets called lazy for that in this forum. People who like to defend him do so by stating he's not lazy but it's normal for a company to want to maximize profit. However the word milking is often used too in this forum. And that is the word that keeps springing to mind whenever I see anything or read about L4D2. Don't get me wrong, Valve is a great dev, the Orange Box was a fantastic deal, Portal was genius,HL2 a great game and L4D probably the most fun shooter I ever played online, but asking full price for L4D2? Right, that's just robbing the gamer. I mean, I realize times are rough with the financial crisis and all, but robbing your customers is not a very nice way to get through it. As for Gabe not liking the PS3, well the L4D business decision is telling me that his dislike most likely also come forth from greediness. The PS3 is more expensive to develop for, so if Gabe can't become even richer than he already is, easily,it's not interesting to him. I don't like that attitude. The devs that I do repect are the ones that actually care more for the games they produce than the money they make them (or at least care just as much about both). Valve's L4D2 not being an expansion, but full price plus the lazy/greedy PS3 decisions over the last few years has made me lose a lot of the respect I had for them.

/rant

Let me shorten that for ya TC.....

"Wahhhhhhh :cry: L4D & L4D2 aren't on the PS3"

/thread

It's quite obvious that Gabe Newell doesn't just care about money, he cares for pies as well.:lol:

It's quite obvious that Gabe Newell doesn't just care about money, he cares for pies as well.:lol:

-Grieves-

It's quite obvious that Gabe Newell doesn't just care about money, he cares for pies as well.:lol:

-Grieves-

he sure does like his pie.

[QUOTE="NielsNL"]

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]

Actually Gabe Newell stated himself that he disliked L4D2 being developed and released this early.

SpinoRaptor24

Yeah?

Remember where you read it?

Here you go

"...So the team brought their ideas and concepts to Gabe Newell and even he was skeptical about the idea...claimed this move was against the character of the company..."

Link

Thanks! I must say I probably judged too soon.

Let me shorten that for ya TC.....

"Wahhhhhhh :cry: L4D & L4D2 aren't on the PS3"

/thread

whatisazerg

Very mature post. If you actually read the thread you'd have seen I play it on pc. I also have a 360 by the way. But you'er not here to seriously discuss, you're just here to annoy people.

every businessman cares about money. valve is not a charity organization.

*insert generic American douchenozzle solution here*

If you don't like it, well you can just geeeeetOUT!

No, everyone feels the same as you do about l4d2. And about Steam and Valve. Valve has grown far too big for its britches from the humble company it once was in 1998 and I feel their time has come for a cleansing fire of some sort.

Actually after reading that article again I have things to say for real this time.

Is he a moron? Answer: yes.

The entire concept of Downloadable Content, of patching, of THE STEAM DELIVERY SYSTEM, was so that that Valve, and other devs in the case of the other 2900 games on steam n ot made by valve, could continually support their products in an accessible, ongoing, and public way, to keep gamers playing, to keep them doing something, to keep turning profits on the same game if necessary while a full-fledged product deserving of a full price tag was in the works, for years if necessary. He says that TF2 is different from L4D in that changes can be made that do not affect the game. No, thats utter horse manure. There is no truth to that whatsoever, I don't need to see the source code to know that.

The L4D team can easily release maps, skins, entire scenarios, add new musical parts to the music generator, without affecting the overall integrity of the game. The entire L4D thing is just pure scam nonsense. The game doesn't deserve a full price tag itself, much less it's sequel deserving one. It's simply not long enough or full enough of a game. Go here, shoot zombies, try not to do, go here, don't die, kk go here now, seriously don't die, oh yay you made it to the plane, you wins! That is not a game. That's a scenario. Even four scenarios is not enough to make a game, and all four scenarios are exactly the same in terms of gameplay experience. Once you've shot a million virtual organic beings, or robots, or anything that can be shot, there honestly is no experience that will be different for you and impress you in a video game. So there is nothing they could do for the sequel except for maybe having the entire city be wide open so that you could potentially have a different gameplay experience each time. Or have the entire city in the game and maybe one play through a building catches on fire and blocks off the easiest way out, or something like that you know.

The game itself is just honestly a mod. And this is the problem with HL2. They are trying to substitute what used to be mods in HL1 for fullprice games. Left 4 dead is not a game until it has an engrossing storyline and purposely orchestrated plot devices that exist only to piss you off and make the game more complicated than surviving and getting to the rendezvous point, like having to find a thousand different keys that unlock different doors and get you into situations that are hard to survive. They need to stop doing this. TF2 = mod L4D = mod CS = mod DoD = mod but yet they are all now sold for full price because Valve purchased them and the people now work there.

Instead of whining and ranting why don't you just not buy Left 4 Dead 2 like me? Actions like that speak to a company much more then a forum full of rants.

It's quite obvious that Gabe Newell doesn't just care about money, he cares for pies as well.:lol:clembo1990

Lol at these people that seem to think these companies care about them.If anyone needs the loving attention of a business to make them feel better, then their problem is a bit more deep than greedy developers.

Video games are a multibillion dollar business. These guys spend a lot of money getting the resources together to entertain you for a few hours. Yeah, they might expect a little bit of return on their investment of time and money.