Console Subscription Service Growth Is Nonexistent

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GhostOfGolden

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#1  Edited By GhostOfGolden
Member since 2023 • 2715 Posts

Story

In other words, subscriptions like PS Plus and Xbox Game Pass are not the game changing business models they were billed to be. Yes, there’s clearly money to be made from them, but growth would need to be much more significant than what we’re currently seeing for them to be the future of an industry that already finds itself on uncertain footing.”

2% growth in 2022. 1% growth in 2023. It’s probably time to pivot away from these services before it’s too late.

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R4gn4r0k

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#2 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46767 Posts

They are introducing HBO max in my country. It's €6 a month for the base price, with commercials

Cable used to be free and came with ads, now you're paying for the priviledge to watch ads.

Who buys all these subscriptions? Honestly?

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hardwenzen

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#3 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 40156 Posts

But the whole Microsoft business model is built on gamepass. No wonder we're seeing the closure of multiple studios...

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SecretPolice

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#4  Edited By SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44368 Posts

Even if topping out at 40-50 million subs, that brings in a whole lot of dependable cash every month but still, I'd be lying if I didn't say...

lol :P

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Pedro

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#5 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70828 Posts

I guess that means we should panic.🤭

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Zero_epyon

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#6 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20287 Posts

Explains some studio closures and obfuscation of subscriber numbers from both Sony and MS.

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MyCatIsMilk

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#7  Edited By MyCatIsMilk
Member since 2022 • 1527 Posts

@R4gn4r0k said:

They are introducing HBO max in my country. It's €6 a month for the base price, with commercials

Cable used to be free and came with ads, now you're paying for the priviledge to watch ads.

Who buys all these subscriptions? Honestly?

I think even Hulu does this. I don't subscribe to any form of television since I don't watch TV, but I was shocked when one of my friends told me that they were subscribed to a service, but that it still had ads.

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Nonstop-Madness

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#8 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 12401 Posts

PlayStation Plus was never billed out to be a game changing business model.

Gaming journalists, console warriors and gaming influencers are to blame for eating up Xbox's marketing.

Jim Ryan and, Strauss Zelnick have always been right on this subject. Live services > Subs

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Antwan3K

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#9 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts

@ghostofgolden said:

[...]

It’s probably time to pivot away from these services before it’s too late.

If Xbox Game Pass only accounts for 10~15% of their overall gaming revenue and PlayStation Plus is already an afterthought at Sony, what exactly does "pivot away" actually mean in a practical sense?..

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GhostOfGolden

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#10  Edited By GhostOfGolden
Member since 2023 • 2715 Posts

@Antwan3K said:
@ghostofgolden said:

[...]

It’s probably time to pivot away from these services before it’s too late.

If Xbox Game Pass only accounts for 10~15% of their overall gaming revenue and PlayStation Plus is already an afterthought at Sony, what exactly does "pivot away" actually mean in a practical sense?..

Putting $70 games that cost $200+million to develop on a $10 subscription service with dozens of other publishers taking a piece of the pie. It makes no sense without astronomical growth. There is no growth so it’s time to pivot.

How much does Game Pass cost Xbox? It may be 10%~15% of their revenue, but what percentage of the cogs does it represent? I would suspect Xbox wouldn’t be shutting down celebrated studios and putting their games on PlayStation if the revenue splits were good…

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Pedro

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#11 Pedro
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DaVillain

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#12  Edited By DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56596 Posts

@ghostofgolden: Subscription services, whether it’s Game Pass or PS+ have provided nothing of value to their customers or their developers. They’re unsustainable on the long run, and detrimental to the evolution of gaming. NOW unless somebody wants the future of gaming to be cookie-cutter “fast food” (I might add) gaming or glorified phone games on a $500 "revolutionary console" that look two generations behind, these services need to end. Gamers need to start buying games again, just as going to the theater needs to continue being the first means of watching a movie, over streaming it with tens of other subscription content, let alone piracy.

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Pedro

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#13 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70828 Posts

@davillain said:

@ghostofgolden: Subscription services, whether it’s Game Pass or PS+ have provided nothing of value to their customers or their developers. They’re unsustainable on the long run, and detrimental to the evolution of gaming. NOW unless somebody wants the future of gaming to be cookie-cutter “fast food” (I might add) gaming or glorified phone games on a $500 "revolutionary console" that look two generations behind, these services need to end. Gamers need to start buying games again, just as going to the theater needs to continue being the first means of watching a movie, over streaming it with tens of other subscription content, let alone piracy.

I think the correct wording is "Subscription services, whether it’s Game Pass or PS+ have provided nothing of value to me."

Please don't speak on my behalf.😊

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Saint-George

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#14  Edited By Saint-George
Member since 2023 • 1479 Posts

Love Gamepass me...oh and Microsoft rewards i like them too but Gamepass is great..especially when its a quid for a fortnight for new members.

New account...delete...pay a quid...repeat

Day and date
Day and date
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lamprey263

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#15 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44749 Posts

Let's wait and see if COD moves the needle, MS is still waiting out Sony's bitch move to keep it off rival subscription services to run its course.

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Antwan3K

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#16  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts
@ghostofgolden said:
@Antwan3K said:
@ghostofgolden said:

[...]

It’s probably time to pivot away from these services before it’s too late.

If Xbox Game Pass only accounts for 10~15% of their overall gaming revenue and PlayStation Plus is already an afterthought at Sony, what exactly does "pivot away" actually mean in a practical sense?..

Putting $70 games that cost $200+million to develop on a $10 subscription service with dozens of other publishers taking a piece of the pie. It makes no sense without astronomical growth. There is no growth so it’s time to pivot.

How much does Game Pass cost Xbox? It may be 10%~15% of their revenue, but what percentage of the cogs does it represent? I would suspect Xbox wouldn’t be shutting down celebrated studios and putting their games on PlayStation if the revenue splits were good…

Game Pass is already profitable, sustainable, and financially viable at 10~15% of total revenue..

and if that number isn't growing, that means more and more people are just going to continue to pay $70 for upcoming 1st party games..

so again, what exactly does "pivot away" actually mean in a practical sense when Game Pass already only represents a small portion of their business model?..

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GhostOfGolden

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#17 GhostOfGolden
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@davillain said:

@ghostofgolden: Subscription services, whether it’s Game Pass or PS+ have provided nothing of value to their customers or their developers. They’re unsustainable on the long run, and detrimental to the evolution of gaming. NOW unless somebody wants the future of gaming to be cookie-cutter “fast food” (I might add) gaming or glorified phone games on a $500 "revolutionary console" that look two generations behind, these services need to end. Gamers need to start buying games again, just as going to the theater needs to continue being the first means of watching a movie, over streaming it with tens of other subscription content, let alone piracy.

Bingo!

Folks on this board will fight to the death to defend these services because it saves them a few bucks. I care more about the quality of the content, hardware and services. These services are showing they actually have no real value to anyone. The big 3, the devs or the consumer. It's all just a bunch of noise and it's watering down the industry.

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Antwan3K

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#18 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts

@ghostofgolden said:
@davillain said:

@ghostofgolden: Subscription services, whether it’s Game Pass or PS+ have provided nothing of value to their customers or their developers. They’re unsustainable on the long run, and detrimental to the evolution of gaming. NOW unless somebody wants the future of gaming to be cookie-cutter “fast food” (I might add) gaming or glorified phone games on a $500 "revolutionary console" that look two generations behind, these services need to end. Gamers need to start buying games again, just as going to the theater needs to continue being the first means of watching a movie, over streaming it with tens of other subscription content, let alone piracy.

Bingo!

Folks on this board will fight to the death to defend these services because it saves them a few bucks. I care more about the quality of the content, hardware and services. These services are showing they actually have no real value to anyone. The big 3, the devs or the consumer. It's all just a bunch of noise and it's watering down the industry.

where's the "quality of content" from PlayStation right now?..

according to you, all they produce are "boring movie games" to which they are currently just remaking and remastering everything.. they have no major 1st party releases this year while also scrambling to shift to live service games..

if selling $70 games is the solution, why is PlayStation having so much trouble?.. why is that strategy not working?..

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GhostOfGolden

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#19  Edited By GhostOfGolden
Member since 2023 • 2715 Posts
@Antwan3K said:

Game Pass is already profitable, sustainable, and financially viable

You are seriously continuing to parrot the Xbox talking points? After the past day of folks posting all their PR nonsense that ended up being complete nonsense? Remember when Xbox "couldn't be happier" with Hi-Fi Rush and planned to reinvest in Tango Gameworks? That was this past August... Remember when Xbox came out and said they had no plans to close Arcane Austin? That was less than a year ago...

But please, keep telling us what Phil said in some PR fluff quote and how we have no reason not to believe what he said. Especially when there's been no reported financial metrics to report the claim. #FeelTheBurnToday

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GhostOfGolden

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#20  Edited By GhostOfGolden
Member since 2023 • 2715 Posts

@Antwan3K said:
@ghostofgolden said:
@davillain said:

@ghostofgolden: Subscription services, whether it’s Game Pass or PS+ have provided nothing of value to their customers or their developers. They’re unsustainable on the long run, and detrimental to the evolution of gaming. NOW unless somebody wants the future of gaming to be cookie-cutter “fast food” (I might add) gaming or glorified phone games on a $500 "revolutionary console" that look two generations behind, these services need to end. Gamers need to start buying games again, just as going to the theater needs to continue being the first means of watching a movie, over streaming it with tens of other subscription content, let alone piracy.

Bingo!

Folks on this board will fight to the death to defend these services because it saves them a few bucks. I care more about the quality of the content, hardware and services. These services are showing they actually have no real value to anyone. The big 3, the devs or the consumer. It's all just a bunch of noise and it's watering down the industry.

where's the "quality of content" from PlayStation right now?..

according to you, all they produce are "boring movie games" to which they are currently just remaking and remastering everything.. they have no major 1st party releases this year while also scrambling to shift to live service games..

if selling $70 games is the solution, why is PlayStation having so much trouble?.. why is that strategy not working?..

Deflection... Nice!

PlayStation is about to report much higher earnings numbers than Xbox. They are having *far less trouble than Xbox is. PlayStation half-assing the subscription model has saved them a boatload of cash. That's how they can be tripping all over themselves, with no games and without supporting their hardware AND STILL wipe the floor with Xbox and their "consumer firendly" strategy.

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Antwan3K

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#21  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts
@ghostofgolden said:
@Antwan3K said:

Game Pass is already profitable, sustainable, and financially viable

You are seriously continuing to parrot the Xbox talking points?

[...]

it's the official statement that Microsoft/Xbox has made on the subject several times..

you're welcome to your personal speculation but if you want to have an objective discussion, it needs to be based upon official statements from those with the actual information..

as such, Game Pass is already where they've projected it to be for the foreseeable future: 10~15% of their business.. and if that number doesn't grow, it simply means more people are going to be buying games at $70.. (an ideal you seem to support)..

so what exactly is there to "pivot away" from?..

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Antwan3K

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#22  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts
@ghostofgolden said:
@Antwan3K said:
@ghostofgolden said:
@davillain said:

@ghostofgolden: Subscription services, whether it’s Game Pass or PS+ have provided nothing of value to their customers or their developers. They’re unsustainable on the long run, and detrimental to the evolution of gaming. NOW unless somebody wants the future of gaming to be cookie-cutter “fast food” (I might add) gaming or glorified phone games on a $500 "revolutionary console" that look two generations behind, these services need to end. Gamers need to start buying games again, just as going to the theater needs to continue being the first means of watching a movie, over streaming it with tens of other subscription content, let alone piracy.

Bingo!

Folks on this board will fight to the death to defend these services because it saves them a few bucks. I care more about the quality of the content, hardware and services. These services are showing they actually have no real value to anyone. The big 3, the devs or the consumer. It's all just a bunch of noise and it's watering down the industry.

where's the "quality of content" from PlayStation right now?..

according to you, all they produce are "boring movie games" to which they are currently just remaking and remastering everything.. they have no major 1st party releases this year while also scrambling to shift to live service games..

if selling $70 games is the solution, why is PlayStation having so much trouble?.. why is that strategy not working?..

Deflection... Nice!

PlayStation is about to report much higher earnings numbers than Xbox. They are having *far less trouble than Xbox is. PlayStation half-assing the subscription model has saved them a boatload of cash. That's how they can be tripping all over themselves, with no games and without supporting their hardware AND STILL wipe the floor with Xbox and their "consumer firendly" strategy.

not a deflection when i'm directly addressing your statements..

you said you want more quality content.. meanwhile, the company you're championing isn't providing any 1st party content this year and the company you're bashing is providing a minimum of 3~4 major 1st party releases this year..

your narrative simple doesn't match reality..

and if you want to see what "deflection" looks like, it's you moving the goal post back to "revenue wars" since "quality of content" isn't panning out for you.. even though you downplayed revenue when Xbox's content services went up 62% and their overall gaming revenue went up 51%..

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Archangel3371

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#23 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44760 Posts

Oh no!

Anyway....

I’ve gotten a lot of value from Game Pass and as long as I continue to get value from it, I’ll continue to be a subscriber.

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jcafcwbb

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#24 jcafcwbb
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The people who like subscription services like GP and PS+ are the people who do not like paying for their games and are, ironically, also are some of the people who do hand-wringing when studios close.

If you are not prepared to pay $70, or the first day price, for a game then you do not really want it. I am only buying 5 games this year and I am quite happy to pay full whack for them - to support the developers rather than either Sony or MS as much as I can. And the ones I am not going buy at full price I do not really want. Playing them because they are on a subscription service is not a reason to play them.

And I do not have a lot of money or time to splash around but would rather just spend it on the games I really want to play. Hence not buying FF16, Spiderman 2 or the second Horizon game. Not that bothered about playing any of those.

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R4gn4r0k

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#25 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46767 Posts

@mycatismilk: yup, even Amazon changed their base subscription to include ads.

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Chutebox

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#26 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50743 Posts

Pretty soon they'll be adding ads to these services just like the TV/Movie services. Such a joke and people pay for this garbage.

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Archangel3371

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#27 Archangel3371
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@jcafcwbb: There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to pay $70 for a game day one. Doesn’t mean they don’t want to play that game. Some people can’t afford that. Some don’t care if they “own” the game and are fine with just renting it. Renting games has been a thing since the days of the NES. Some people like to just try out different games by renting them as well. This gives more options to more people to play a variety of games.

I guess people who wait for games to go on sale are also a problem for the industry since they aren’t supporting these games with the full price purchase. Must not really want to play those games either.

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#28  Edited By KvallyX
Member since 2019 • 13160 Posts

Yup, Phil knew this almost 2 years ago:

"I think it will stay in that 10-15% of our overall revenue, and it's profitable for us. We're seeing incredibly growth on PC... on console I've seen growth slow down, mainly because at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe." - Phil Spencer

So now it's 2024. Who didn't know this 2 years ago? Sony?

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DaVillain

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#29 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56596 Posts

@Pedro said:

Please don't speak on my behalf.😊

Yes sir! I apology Mr. Pedro. It won't happen again😁

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Gifford38

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#30 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 7351 Posts

@Antwan3K said:
@ghostofgolden said:
@Antwan3K said:
@ghostofgolden said:
@davillain said:

@ghostofgolden: Subscription services, whether it’s Game Pass or PS+ have provided nothing of value to their customers or their developers. They’re unsustainable on the long run, and detrimental to the evolution of gaming. NOW unless somebody wants the future of gaming to be cookie-cutter “fast food” (I might add) gaming or glorified phone games on a $500 "revolutionary console" that look two generations behind, these services need to end. Gamers need to start buying games again, just as going to the theater needs to continue being the first means of watching a movie, over streaming it with tens of other subscription content, let alone piracy.

Bingo!

Folks on this board will fight to the death to defend these services because it saves them a few bucks. I care more about the quality of the content, hardware and services. These services are showing they actually have no real value to anyone. The big 3, the devs or the consumer. It's all just a bunch of noise and it's watering down the industry.

where's the "quality of content" from PlayStation right now?..

according to you, all they produce are "boring movie games" to which they are currently just remaking and remastering everything.. they have no major 1st party releases this year while also scrambling to shift to live service games..

if selling $70 games is the solution, why is PlayStation having so much trouble?.. why is that strategy not working?..

Deflection... Nice!

PlayStation is about to report much higher earnings numbers than Xbox. They are having *far less trouble than Xbox is. PlayStation half-assing the subscription model has saved them a boatload of cash. That's how they can be tripping all over themselves, with no games and without supporting their hardware AND STILL wipe the floor with Xbox and their "consumer firendly" strategy.

not a deflection when i'm directly addressing your statements..

you said you want more quality content.. meanwhile, the company you're championing isn't providing any 1st party content this year and the company you're bashing is providing a minimum of 3~4 major 1st party releases this year..

your narrative simple doesn't match reality..

and if you want to see what "deflection" looks like, it's you moving the goal post back to "revenue wars" since "quality of content" isn't panning out for you.. even though you downplayed revenue when Xbox's content services went up 62% and their overall gaming revenue went up 51%..

sonys first party been dropping hits before ps5 even was a thing. so one slow year is expected.

but of course third party exclusives don't count.

sony been paying for these third party exclusives. heck steller blade is no1 in japan. in fact its sold out to the point only 1 copy per customer. at 70 bucks a pop sony and the developer are making bank.

not even close if it was on ps plus day one.

its about time xbox is dropping 3 to 4 first party games in a one year.

there is a reason why ps5 has sold 3 times more consoles. first 3 years of ps5 was hit after hit.

only reason xbox had games coming is because they bought them even though most of the games was in development way before they bought them.

gamepass and ps plus are great for small developers but huge major games it is not.

hence why most of third party big games are not on ps plus or gamepass day one. if it was good then they all be hopping on it day one.

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Antwan3K

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#31  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts
@kvallyx said:

Yup, Phil knew this almost 2 years ago:

"I think it will stay in that 10-15% of our overall revenue, and it's profitable for us. We're seeing incredibly growth on PC... on console I've seen growth slow down, mainly because at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe." - Phil Spencer

So now it's 2024. Who didn't know this 2 years ago? Sony?

yep, everytime someone on twitter says Game Pass growth has stalled, there's going to be a new thread created and the same discussion will be rehashed again and again.. such is the current state of System Wars it seems..

ultimately, once Xbox started hiding Game Pass numbers by renaming "Xbox Live Gold" to "Game Pass Core", the writing was on the wall that growth had pretty much leveled off.. where Game Pass is now is likely where it's going to stay.. (as already stated years ago)

and as it stands, the service is profitable at the maximum and sustainable at the minimum with no changes on the horizon per the latest business update.. as much as cows what to try to create bad news about Game Pass, there is really nothing new to discuss..

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Antwan3K

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#32 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts

@gifford38 said:
[..]

but of course third party exclusives don't count.

[...]

blame cows for that narrative.. 🤷‍♂️

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DaVillain

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#33 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56596 Posts

@Antwan3K: While I cannot speak for super Sonic here, this is my own analysis on the subscription model.

When studios aren't making enough money because their games aren't being bought, (which is why I always try to buy them if the developers are worthy of my money/time) since they're on a service such as Game Pass/PS+/EA PlayPro etc, what incentive do you think they have to make better games? To advance technology? To retain enough of their investment to start better projects?

You may get your favorite game on a service for low/half the price and not pay $70, but in the future, there won't be a single game that is worth getting, not for free and certainly not for $70. Hers's an example, there's a good reason why GTAV took nearly a decade to be given away for free on the EGS was one of them and be part of Game Pass/PS+ service, because the sales were still coming. So why put it in service if the sales are still booming? Heck, there's a good reason TLOU sold many copies when it wasn't on PS+ compared to Starfield which was on Game Pass day one.

To sum it up, Game Pass maybe profitable, but not most of developers and that's what it amounts to. All I can tell you is to vote with your wallets if that game is worth paying full price if you want to contribute to developers or use the service but chances are, they won't see that profit back should you use their service to do so.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#34  Edited By blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16629 Posts

@ghostofgolden: yes, i think MS needs to shift strategies somewhat. Decrease the price of gamepass, and move their big games off the service back to the pay model, or at least get rid of day 1. I'm a big fan of gamepass, but if the service is hurting game sales, and the subscription service isn't even growing...well we need to look at the data and reassess.

I'm still big on gamepass though, I think going for something like 6month or even 1 year post release on the service would make more financial sense, especially for the bigger titles like starfield.

I think Uncle Phil has his heart in the right place, but the problem with subscriptions for gaming is that its just not the same as those movie/show subs. Gaming takes a bit more work and effort on the part of people...while watching a crappy show takes none, just sit back and get those dopamine hits.

People are lazy af, thats all I can say. Gaming takes work, and people don't want to work lol.

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#35 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 11282 Posts

I'm still wholly expecting Xbox to renege on day one releases of new first party releases on GP, at least for bigger titles. I feel GP got them into this mess in the first place. A lot of people aren't even using GP long term, only joining for the occasional game

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#36  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts
@davillain said:

@Antwan3K: While I cannot speak for super Sonic here, this is my own analysis on the subscription model.

When studios aren't making enough money because their games aren't being bought, (which is why I always try to buy them if the developers are worthy of my money/time) since they're on a service such as Game Pass/PS+/EA PlayPro etc, what incentive do you think they have to make better games? To advance technology? To retain enough of their investment to start better projects?

You may get your favorite game on a service for low/half the price and not pay $70, but in the future, there won't be a single game that is worth getting, not for free and certainly not for $70. Hers's an example, there's a good reason why GTAV took nearly a decade to be given away for free on the EGS was one of them and be part of Game Pass/PS+ service, because the sales were still coming. So why put it in service if the sales are still booming? Heck, there's a good reason TLOU sold many copies when it wasn't on PS+ compared to Starfield which was on Game Pass day one.

To sum it up, Game Pass maybe profitable, but not most of developers and that's what it amounts to. All I can tell you is to vote with your wallets if that game is worth paying full price if you want to contribute to developers or use the service but chances are, they won't see that profit back should you use their service to do so.

i appreciate your analysis.. but, as with super Sonic, your narrative doesn't match the reality imo..

the reality is that Xbox (with Game Pass) is providing Hellblade II, Avowed, and Indiana Jones this year.. in terms of multiplatform, they are now adding the next Call of Duty to this year's line-up.. and they've already confirmed a June showcase for upcoming game announcements..

meanwhile, PlayStation (without a Day One service) isn't providing any major 1st party titles this year, is relyng on remakes/remasters, and is making a hard pivot to live service games.. and currently, they've been extremtely quiet on what's coming for 2025 beyond maybe Wolverine..

in terms of current events, BOTH Xbox and PlayStation have shutdown studios and have had huge layoffs; both recently and periodically..

so i dont feel you can make a good faith argument against Xbox and thier subscription service when looking at those facts..

now, can Sony/PlayStation sustain a Day One subscription service like Game Pass?.. that's a different discussion and (admittedly) probably not.. Microsoft is a much larger multi-Trillion dollar parent company and Xbox already owns live service IP like Minecraft, Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, and more that can be used to keep a steady stream of incoming revenue to subsidize content and services.. PlayStation has Destiny 2 and that doesn't seem to be working out very well overall..

TL;DR

to sum it up, the anti-Game Pass talk is just theoretical and will continue to be so as long as Xbox is putting out a steady volume of gaming content; particular when it's more 1st party content than PlayStation.. something that started last year, is continuing this year, and doesn't look to be slowing down next year..

and btw, i am voting with my wallet.. i pay Xbox monthly regardless of what's coming out from 1st party because i find value in their service.. i also purchase DLC and i also purchase MTX.. and i also purchase 3rd party titles that aren't in Game Pass.. so please spare the speech about supporting the platform and supporting the developers.. you're preaching to the choir..

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#37  Edited By Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70828 Posts
@davillain said:
@Pedro said:

Please don't speak on my behalf.😊

Yes sir! I apology Mr. Pedro. It won't happen again😁

Don't promise, otherwise I will hold you to it and I will react like this when you do

You promised, YOU PROMISED.....
You promised, YOU PROMISED.....
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#38  Edited By Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 12401 Posts
@kvallyx said:

Yup, Phil knew this almost 2 years ago:

"I think it will stay in that 10-15% of our overall revenue, and it's profitable for us. We're seeing incredibly growth on PC... on console I've seen growth slow down, mainly because at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe." - Phil Spencer

So now it's 2024. Who didn't know this 2 years ago? Sony?

And people refused to accept what it truly meant; many of which are in this very thread acting like they didn't totally miss it.

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#39 loudheadphones
Member since 2023 • 1246 Posts

@Zero_epyon said:

Explains some studio closures and obfuscation of subscriber numbers from both Sony and MS.

Difference is,

Sony and Nintendo are pushing policy of buying games first and foremost amd it is the primary way for playing games, subs comes as a 2nd way of playing games. .Unlike MS is doing the opposite and look where we are. Xbox is going 3rd party because Gamepass growth stalled because Xbox sales cratered

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#40 loudheadphones
Member since 2023 • 1246 Posts
@Antwan3K said:
@davillain said:

@Antwan3K: While I cannot speak for super Sonic here, this is my own analysis on the subscription model.

When studios aren't making enough money because their games aren't being bought, (which is why I always try to buy them if the developers are worthy of my money/time) since they're on a service such as Game Pass/PS+/EA PlayPro etc, what incentive do you think they have to make better games? To advance technology? To retain enough of their investment to start better projects?

You may get your favorite game on a service for low/half the price and not pay $70, but in the future, there won't be a single game that is worth getting, not for free and certainly not for $70. Hers's an example, there's a good reason why GTAV took nearly a decade to be given away for free on the EGS was one of them and be part of Game Pass/PS+ service, because the sales were still coming. So why put it in service if the sales are still booming? Heck, there's a good reason TLOU sold many copies when it wasn't on PS+ compared to Starfield which was on Game Pass day one.

To sum it up, Game Pass maybe profitable, but not most of developers and that's what it amounts to. All I can tell you is to vote with your wallets if that game is worth paying full price if you want to contribute to developers or use the service but chances are, they won't see that profit back should you use their service to do so.

i appreciate your analysis.. but, as with super Sonic, your narrative doesn't match the reality..

the reality is that Xbox (with Game Pass) is providing Hellblade II, Avowed, and Indiana Jones this year.. in terms of multiplatform, they are now adding the next Call of Duty to this year's line-up.. and they've already confirmed a June showcase for upcoming game announcements..

meanwhile, PlayStation (without a Day One service) isn't providing any major 1st party titles this year, is relyng on remakes/remasters, and is making a hard pivot to live service games.. and currently, they've been extremtely quiet on what's coming for 2025 beyond maybe Wolverine..

i dont feel you can make a good faith argument against Xbox and thier subscription service when looking at those facts..

now, can Sony/PlayStation sustain a Day One subscription service like Game Pass?.. that's a different discussion and (admittedly) probably not.. Microsoft is a much larger multi-Trillion dollar parent company and Xbox already owns live service IP like Minecraft, Call of Duty, Overwatch, World of Warcraft, and more that can be used to keep a steady stream of incoming revenue to subsidize content and services.. PlayStation has Destiny 2 and that doesn't seem to be working out very well overall..

to sum it up, the anti-Game Pass talk is just theoretical and will continue to be so as long as Xbox is putting out a steady volume of gaming content.. something that started last year, is continuing this year, and doesn't look to be slowing down next year..

Helldivers 2 is a 1st party title.

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#41  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts
@loudheadphones said:
@Antwan3K said:
@davillain said:

@Antwan3K: [...]

[...]

now, can Sony/PlayStation sustain a Day One subscription service like Game Pass?.. that's a different discussion and (admittedly) probably not.. Microsoft is a much larger multi-Trillion dollar parent company and Xbox already owns live service IP like Minecraft, Call of Duty, Overwatch, World of Warcraft, and more that can be used to keep a steady stream of incoming revenue to subsidize content and services.. PlayStation has Destiny 2 and that doesn't seem to be working out very well overall..

[...]

Helldivers 2 is a 1st party title.

the status of Helldivers 2 changes between 1st party and 2nd party depending on which cow is posting and which narrative is being pushed..

in either case, it's going to be a long time before we see if Helldivers 2 has the longevity to be placed in the same conversation with Minecraft, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft..

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#42 Howmakewood
Member since 2015 • 7721 Posts

price has increased but spending hasn't, you know what that means :)

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#43 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41611 Posts

@R4gn4r0k: Paid? With ads? FFS, that's why Paramount has Pluto and Fox has Tubi. They are free.

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#44 dimebag667
Member since 2003 • 3157 Posts

@davillain said:
@Pedro said:

Please don't speak on my behalf.😊

Yes sir! I apology Mr. Pedro. It won't happen again😁

You can speak for me, buddy. I agree. Maybe not completely, but definitely that good entertainment deserves our money.

For people that like GP, and want the option to rent games (nothing wrong with that), why don't they just offer individual game rentals on all systems? Pay $5 for 2-3 hours of playtime (these numbers would probably need to be tweaked), and have the money spent on renting to be applied to the purchase of the game. If the game can be completed in that short of a time, then that would dictate what it's worth. If you rent the game enough times to reach the purchase price, then you now own the game.

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#45 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46767 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:

@R4gn4r0k: Paid? With ads? FFS, that's why Paramount has Pluto and Fox has Tubi. They are free.

I think they are testing the waters (and launching with Olympics exclusivity deal) but yeah apart from Netflix I haven't really seen a breakthrough success in steaming Television.

Disney plus is doing good but then again is spending very large amounts on original content.

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#46 GhostOfGolden
Member since 2023 • 2715 Posts

@Antwan3K said:

Helldivers 2 is a 1st party title.

the status of Helldivers 2 changes between 1st party and 2nd party depending on which cow is posting and which narrative is being pushed..

in either case, it's going to be a long time before we see if Helldivers 2 has the longevity to be placed in the same conversation with Minecraft, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft..

If it is then Xbox will just buy it like they did Minecraft, Call of Duty and WoW…

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#47 tdkmillsy
Member since 2003 • 6280 Posts

The gaming industry is in a mess with all of them trying a variety of strategies to continually make money.

While GamePass is profitable Microsoft had ambitions of it growing and it hasn't and if the next wave of what could be described as some top quality games doesn't shift it will be interesting to see what happens next.

I see GamePass growing a little but more games coming to PS a year or 2 after realase.

In a similar way if Sony's Live service games don't bring in what they want they they will have to change tactic again. They certainly haven't got off to a good start with the cancelations.

I see day one PC games becoming standard with maybe a few timed exclusives but all coming to PC eventually.

Time will tell.

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#48 loudheadphones
Member since 2023 • 1246 Posts

@Antwan3K said:
@loudheadphones said:
@Antwan3K said:
@davillain said:

@Antwan3K: [...]

[...]

now, can Sony/PlayStation sustain a Day One subscription service like Game Pass?.. that's a different discussion and (admittedly) probably not.. Microsoft is a much larger multi-Trillion dollar parent company and Xbox already owns live service IP like Minecraft, Call of Duty, Overwatch, World of Warcraft, and more that can be used to keep a steady stream of incoming revenue to subsidize content and services.. PlayStation has Destiny 2 and that doesn't seem to be working out very well overall..

[...]

Helldivers 2 is a 1st party title.

the status of Helldivers 2 changes between 1st party and 2nd party depending on which cow is posting and which narrative is being pushed..

in either case, it's going to be a long time before we see if Helldivers 2 has the longevity to be placed in the same conversation with Minecraft, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft..

Fully funded, published and own IP by very definition is a 1st party game, doesn't matter which devs made it

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#49 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8451 Posts

@loudheadphones said:
@Antwan3K said:
@loudheadphones said:
@Antwan3K said:
@davillain said:

@Antwan3K: [...]

[...]

now, can Sony/PlayStation sustain a Day One subscription service like Game Pass?.. that's a different discussion and (admittedly) probably not.. Microsoft is a much larger multi-Trillion dollar parent company and Xbox already owns live service IP like Minecraft, Call of Duty, Overwatch, World of Warcraft, and more that can be used to keep a steady stream of incoming revenue to subsidize content and services.. PlayStation has Destiny 2 and that doesn't seem to be working out very well overall..

[...]

Helldivers 2 is a 1st party title.

the status of Helldivers 2 changes between 1st party and 2nd party depending on which cow is posting and which narrative is being pushed..

in either case, it's going to be a long time before we see if Helldivers 2 has the longevity to be placed in the same conversation with Minecraft, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft..

Fully funded, published and own IP by very definition is a 1st party game, doesn't matter which devs made it

Tell that to cows who insist it's 2nd party in order to continue the narrative that Playstation isn't bringing their games to PC day-and-date.. 🤷🏽‍♂️

And there is certainly some gray area for discussion/debate concerning a 1st party IP being developed by a 3rd party developer.. The idea of that constituting a "2nd party" deal is indeed valid.. Personally, I'd say Helldivers 2 is 1st party..

Again, in either case, it's going to be a long time before we see if Helldivers 2 has the longevity to be placed in the same conversation with Minecraft, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft..

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#50 GhostOfGolden
Member since 2023 • 2715 Posts