About Sw:tor...

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dreman999

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#1 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

I really, really want to talk about it.....Ever since last weekend....But I can't.... But, I can post an article that expresses every thing I want to say...

http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1210601p1.html

Every time I quit an MMO, it's usually for the same reason. The sense of context eventually breaks down; I feel like I'm scraping items off dead enemies for no reason, trapped in some insane machine, doomed to repeat assembly line behavior until I achieve some virtual goal that lets me do it again, only more efficiently. Such progression mechanics are at the core of any MMO, which I know full well going in. But with a good story, I'm able to push aside the monotony. I'm no longer killing 600 elite skeletons to gain experience, I'm killing 600 elite skeletons because I know it'll get me one step close to throwing a fireball at the super elite skeleton, and that guy is a total jerk.

Typically MMO quest text is delivered through tiny boxes that take up a small percentage of screen real estate. Sometimes I read the text, sometimes I read half and click the accept button so I can get it over with. I imagine that, for the development teams, writing this kind of text has to be a huge challenge. It has to be entertaining and move along the greater story, say something unique about the NPC quest giver, and also justify sending you on a perilous journey to kill ten zombie scarecrows and harvest twelve diseased haystacks in the process, all in as small a space as possible.

The Old Republic beta hooked me. I was up slaughtering enemies of the Republic until the embarrassing hours of the morning. Eventually, I had to ask myself why. The gameplay feels very safe, very much like World of Warcraft. The crafting systems are well done, the world looks pretty, and the companion system is a lot of fun to play around with. It's a good game, even better than I expected. But still, at this point in my life, after playing quite a few MMOs, the presence of good gameplay systems isn't enough to make me lose sleep.

It was the story presentation that pulled me along. I knew exactly who I was fighting for, I knew my foes, and I could make decisions about how to proceed. I was, in fact, role-playing. It's something I'm well accustomed to in single-player games like The Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect, but something I don't expect to find in online games. In the past I've taken on roles like Protection Paladin in World of Warcraft, but nothing related directly to personality. In Star Wars: The Old Republic, I wasn't merely a Commando Trooper, but a Commando Trooper with Dark tendencies, fighting for the Republic no less --the alleged good guys.

Cut-scenes and character interaction in MMOs is nothing new, but I've never played an MMO where it's as prevalent as it is in The Old Republic. Even throwaway, minor quests have voice acting, cut-scenes and dialogue choices. I routinely make Light Side and Dark Side decisions, which can have some surprising effects on quest progression. No longer do I interact with NPCs like they're parking lot ticket machines, waiting to spit out their text blurbs to any that pass by. These NPCs have voices, personalities, and though some may not have the most interesting things to say, I at least have a much more detailed impression of them. I remember faces a lot better than names, which gives each quest, even the boring kill and collect variety, enhanced purpose.

It gives the moral choices more impact too. At one point I found a missing girl being brutally interrogated by Republic officers. Instead of killing the officers and freeing her, I accepted a bribe and maintained my silence. I lied to the father, told him his daughter is dead, and went so far as to offer her ring as proof. It was outright evil behavior, and as the father expressed his genuine gratitude for at least bringing him a sense of closure, I actually felt a sense of guilt. I saw his body language, heard his relief, and my deceit felt all the more substantial. The knowledge that the ring doubles as a listening device for the officers to use for surveillance intensified the feeling. I love how the game supports this kind of decision making.

It's even more of a thrill when I flaunt my evil in front of other players. The first major dungeon, called a Flashpoint in The Old Republic, brings Republic players together to fight against Imperial forces. While grouped with others you still pick conversation options, but a roll determines which choice is put into action. When Light side and Dark side options are present, my choice, regardless of outcome, is broadcast to the group. Everyone knows I wanted to double-cross and leave behind a seemingly wholesome, likeable NPC, which is a whole different kind of thrill than in private, solo quests. It was even better when my I had the highest roll, and the other three in my group were forced to watch in horror as I blasted scientists out of an airlock, screaming 'What's wrong with you?' through the chat window. I'm not trying to defend my behavior – it was obviously evil – but feeling like I should justify my moral decisions is something I never expected while playing an MMO.

While I admire a lot of what BioWare's done with story in The Old Republic, I still fear decision-making may eventually feel like a grind. There's a meter for Light and Dark side points, there's a meter for social points, there's a meter for how much my companions like me. Numbers are associated with everything, and I worry after extensive play time the sense of context could disintegrate, defeating the system's purpose and making me feel like I'm grinding morality.

There's also the difficulty of discerning exactly what computer-controlled companion characters will tolerate. All the systems aren't active in the game yet, but I had a lot of trouble figuring out exactly what my Trooper's companion would react favorably to. Sometimes he would strongly approve of my conversation choices and our relationship would improve, then all that progress would be wiped away by a few Dark Side choices he disagreed with. I'm totally fine with my companions hating me, it sort of comes with the territory of being evil, but I'm not as comfortable with the idea that I'm missing out on potential gameplay or crafting bonuses if my companion affection rating drops too low. This isn't a game where I can reload, after all – I need to live with my choices for months, maybe years. I don't want to suffer from a permanent gameplay disadvantage.

As I said, the build I played was a beta and still very much under construction. I'll be interested to see how all this might be changed leading into launch, which isn't very far away now. I'm hopeful the decision-making becomes more significant toward the late game, and especially in the high level Flashpoints and large-scale Operations. The Old Republic has so much potential, I don't want it to turn into yet another prison of repetition.

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dkdk999

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#2 dkdk999
Member since 2007 • 6754 Posts
it was really great eh ? I really regret not playing it. I thought "eh I'm not really in the mood, I'll play it later." I didn't realize it was only going to last for the weekend.
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Led_poison

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#3 Led_poison
Member since 2004 • 10146 Posts
Hoping for beta key on the 18th. I want to try this game myself
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lx_theo

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#4 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts
Can't wait for the stress test later this month. I really want to try it, even for just a weekend.
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dreman999

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#5 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts
it was really great eh ? I really regret not playing it. I thought "eh I'm not really in the mood, I'll play it later." I didn't realize it was only going to last for the weekend. dkdk999
All I can say is that that world and universe is it's own character. This is a really great character role playing mmo rpg.
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Inconsistancy

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#6 Inconsistancy
Member since 2004 • 8094 Posts
I basically agree. There's more stuff I'd like to add, but.. NDA :D
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GD1551

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#7 GD1551
Member since 2011 • 9645 Posts

So it plays like WoW huh? Not sure how I feel about that, I'll check it out when the stress test comes.

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Merex760

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#8 Merex760
Member since 2008 • 4381 Posts
People who are doubting this game are keeping themselves from a great experience. The game is fantastic.
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KC_Hokie

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#9 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

I'll end up playing TOR for the story because I'm a huge Star Wars nerd but that's pretty much it. Themepark MMOs just don't keep my attention long term like sandboxes.

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xhawk27

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#10 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12183 Posts

I can't wait to own my starship next month. :D

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FPSfan1985

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#11 FPSfan1985
Member since 2011 • 2174 Posts
I can't say anything but good news is the beta character from this last weekend will be playable in the next weekend. I got to level 21 last weekend betting I can get to 35 this next one. I'll have a ton of screens and movies once the game gets released.
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dreman999

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#12 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

So it plays like WoW huh? Not sure how I feel about that, I'll check it out when the stress test comes.

GD1551
On the basic level, Yes....Once you start building your character after level10....No.
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-Unreal-

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#13 -Unreal-
Member since 2004 • 24650 Posts

If it controls like WoW, I'll be happy. That game is so fluid and responsive.

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dreman999

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#14 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

If it controls like WoW, I'll be happy. That game is so fluid and responsive.

-Unreal-
It has not auto-attack.
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padaporra

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#15 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

I just hope they don't butcher Revan.

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tenaka2

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#16 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

Im hoping for a nice Swtor for xmas.

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dreman999

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#17 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

I just hope they don't butcher Revan.

padaporra
1.It's not about Revan and It a story based on chioce.....Soit's in the players hands. 2.His descendant is the head of the current Jedi Order. 3.Read the new book, Swtor: Revan. It closes the story about Reven and the exile and bridges to Swtor. It start post Kotor1 and jumps and end post Kotor 2.
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Led_poison

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#18 Led_poison
Member since 2004 • 10146 Posts

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

If it controls like WoW, I'll be happy. That game is so fluid and responsive.

dreman999

It has not auto-attack.

Thats what concerns me, as a ranged class its nothing to worry about. But as a melee class, always constantly to having to push a button to max out dps, for say the whole duration of the raid or operation (in this case) can get tiring. It would not surprise me if casters are easier to play than melee.

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padaporra

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#19 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

I just hope they don't butcher Revan.

dreman999

1.It's not about Revan and It a story based on chioce.....Soit's in the players hands. 2.His descendant is the head of the current Jedi Order. 3.Read the new book, Swtor: Revan. It closes the story about Reven and the exile and bridges to Swtor. It start post Kotor1 and jumps and end post Kotor 2.


.
ok, I know all that... and I just want a fair ending to the character in ToR.

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Inconsistancy

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#20 Inconsistancy
Member since 2004 • 8094 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

If it controls like WoW, I'll be happy. That game is so fluid and responsive.

Led_poison

It has not auto-attack.

Thats what concerns me, as a ranged class its nothing to worry about. But as a melee class, always constantly to having to push a button to max out dps, for say the whole duration of the raid or operation (in this case) can get tiring. It would not surprise me if casters are easier to play than melee.

Frost DK's(wow) use almost every GCD, and theirs is 1s, not the standard 1.5, during whole raids to maintain dps.

I played the beta 12 hours strait as a melee class so... I was tired, but it had nothing to do with the game's mechanics.

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dercoo

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#21 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

So, my predition that TOR's MMO revolution would be in story is coming true?

Good, no,

great to know:D

Just wish I had a PC that could play it:(

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dreman999

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#22 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

So, my predition that TOR's MMO revolution would be in story is coming true?

Good, no,

great to know:D

Just wish I had a PC that could play it:(

dercoo
What are your specs? Any dual prepossess and a graphic card from the last 10 years can play it.
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Riverwolf007

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#23 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

the game is shot in the foot before it has even launched. SOE is terrible and dealing with them is a chore. the last good thing they did was the ps2 version of everquest.

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Inconsistancy

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#24 Inconsistancy
Member since 2004 • 8094 Posts

the game is shot in the foot before it has even launched. SOE is terrible and dealing with them is a chore. the last good thing they did was the ps2 version of everquest.

Riverwolf007
What, it's not Sony Online Entertainment...
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Riverwolf007

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#25 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

the game is shot in the foot before it has even launched. SOE is terrible and dealing with them is a chore. the last good thing they did was the ps2 version of everquest.

Inconsistancy

What, it's not Sony Online Entertainment...

really? well that's good news. lol, i have been writing this game off and not even considering it forever because i though it was going to be another soe debacle.

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dreman999

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#26 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

the game is shot in the foot before it has even launched. SOE is terrible and dealing with them is a chore. the last good thing they did was the ps2 version of everquest.

Riverwolf007

It's being made By Bioware and EA...:roll:

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Riverwolf007

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#27 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

the game is shot in the foot before it has even launched. SOE is terrible and dealing with them is a chore. the last good thing they did was the ps2 version of everquest.

dreman999

It's being made By Bioware and EA...:roll:

lol, i just looked that up when the other dude told me. ha ha, i went from dread to being hyped in like 3 seconds. this is awesome news.

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aaronmullan

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#28 aaronmullan
Member since 2004 • 33426 Posts
It looks really bad to me. Similar, boring gameplay.
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cobrax55

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#29 cobrax55
Member since 2007 • 1364 Posts

Im intrested in it for the story content. Supposedly you can pretty much play the game as a single player RPG. The new footage does look pretty good as well.

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Ballroompirate

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#30 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26695 Posts

It looks really bad to me. Similar, boring gameplay.aaronmullan

The force is not strong with this one

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dreman999

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#31 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts
It looks really bad to me. Similar, boring gameplay.aaronmullan
Is watching dice-roll hotkey combat ever exciting to watch? You understand it if you play it.
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Led_poison

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#32 Led_poison
Member since 2004 • 10146 Posts

Frost DK's(wow) use almost every GCD, and theirs is 1s, not the standard 1.5, during whole raids to maintain dps.

I played the beta 12 hours strait as a melee class so... I was tired, but it had nothing to do with the game's mechanics.

Inconsistancy

Thats good to hear. Hopefully I get in on this weekend`s stress test.

From what i have i heard the game wont have a combat log, which is kinda mind boggling

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WTA2k5

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#33 WTA2k5
Member since 2005 • 3999 Posts

It was definitely pretty incredible. I hope saying that won't cause BioWare to hunt me down.

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dreman999

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#34 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]Frost DK's(wow) use almost every GCD, and theirs is 1s, not the standard 1.5, during whole raids to maintain dps.

I played the beta 12 hours strait as a melee class so... I was tired, but it had nothing to do with the game's mechanics.

Led_poison

Thats good to hear. Hopefully I get in on this weekend`s stress test.

From what i have i heard the game wont have a combat log, which is kinda mind boggling

The test is on thanksgiving weekend...
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Ncsoftlover

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#35 Ncsoftlover
Member since 2007 • 2152 Posts

the game is on its way to become possibly the most preorder pc game of all time, and there are plenty of positive reaction from beta testers too.

But then like always, MMO are hated by many, I'm intereted in how it's going to perform, there are only mildly successful MMO after WOW, not a hugely successful one yet.

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Masculus

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#36 Masculus
Member since 2009 • 2878 Posts

I really don't know if the story is going to be any good or not, I wouldn't put all my chips in that as the greatest thing about this game. MMOs are generally defined by their end-game and social aspect, i wonder if they'll be able to keep up consistently bringing these dialogue options later on. Cataclysm had the best quests ever, but it didn't stop people from being frustrated about the end-game.

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Maroxad

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#37 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23997 Posts

Heard plenty of positive reactions from various beta testers. Too bad I didnt get the chance to play the beta despite recieving an invite. Irl issues.

When it comes to stories, I heard this

Empire Stories>Republic stories and Agent>Inquistor>BH>Sith Warrior

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dreman999

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#38 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

I really don't know if the story is going to be any good or not, I wouldn't put all my chips in that as the greatest thing about this game. MMOs are generally defined by their end-game and social aspect, i wonder if they'll be able to keep up consistently bringing these dialogue options later on. Cataclysm had the best quests ever, but it didn't stop people from being frustrated about the end-game.

Masculus
The story by itself is not the greatest thing about it....It's the players involvement in the story. While the story may be great, it's not the story that will end all stories and in varries from class to class. How you interact with the story is the great achievement, the is a fantastic character role playing mmorpg with a great story and world that get's you to want to get involved.
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dreman999

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#39 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

Heard plenty of positive reactions from various beta testers. Too bad I didnt get the chance to play the beta despite recieving an invite. Irl issues.

When it comes to stories, I heard this

Empire Stories>Republic stories and Agent>Inquistor>BH>Sith Warrior

Maroxad
That's because everyone played Jedi......
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Inconsistancy

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#40 Inconsistancy
Member since 2004 • 8094 Posts

I really don't know if the story is going to be any good or not, I wouldn't put all my chips in that as the greatest thing about this game. MMOs are generally defined by their end-game and social aspect, i wonder if they'll be able to keep up consistently bringing these dialogue options later on. Cataclysm had the best quests ever, but it didn't stop people from being frustrated about the end-game.

Masculus
Cataclysm may have had the best quests in structure and play-ability, but there's still absolutely no context to 99% of them, unless you actually read quest text, which I never do and I personally think it's a very poor way to present a game.
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Maroxad

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#41 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23997 Posts

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Heard plenty of positive reactions from various beta testers. Too bad I didnt get the chance to play the beta despite recieving an invite. Irl issues.

When it comes to stories, I heard this

Empire Stories>Republic stories and Agent>Inquistor>BH>Sith Warrior

dreman999

That's because everyone played Jedi......

I dont see what that has to do with the quality of the story itself.

The Imperial Agent having the best story was pretty inevitable anyway. Not only is it the only class with no relation to any major characters in any of the movies, but it is also the one with the most political intrigue.

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dreman999

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#42 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Heard plenty of positive reactions from various beta testers. Too bad I didnt get the chance to play the beta despite recieving an invite. Irl issues.

When it comes to stories, I heard this

Empire Stories>Republic stories and Agent>Inquistor>BH>Sith Warrior

Maroxad

That's because everyone played Jedi......

I dont see what that has to do with the quality of the story itself.

The Imperial Agent having the best story was pretty inevitable anyway. Not only is it the only class with no relation to any major characters in any of the movies, but it is also the one with the most political intrigue.

It based on the fact that every class stroy has a theme. The AI is James bond. The Smuggler is Han solo. The trooper is Captain America. The Jedi are Jedi...which story has been done to death with SW. The sith more interesting because we never started out play one in the social sense.
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Maroxad

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#43 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23997 Posts

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] That's because everyone played Jedi......dreman999

I dont see what that has to do with the quality of the story itself.

The Imperial Agent having the best story was pretty inevitable anyway. Not only is it the only class with no relation to any major characters in any of the movies, but it is also the one with the most political intrigue.

It based on the fact that every class stroy has a theme. The AI is James bond. The Smuggler is Han solo. The trooper is Captain America. The Jedi are Jedi...which story has been done to death with SW. The sith more interesting because we never started out play one in the social sense.

Different themes, different writers and different inspirations.

I heard people liked the Smuggler story, but outside of that. They werent so happy about the Jedi stories or the Trooper story. Sith Warrior and BH was ok from what I heard. But the IA story has even gotten someone like me interested.

From what I hear it is like this

Excellent: IA
Good: Smuggler, Inquistor
So-so: BH, Sith Warrior
Bad: Trooper, Jedis

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Selkc

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#44 Selkc
Member since 2011 • 203 Posts

off/on topic. the minor improvements in storyfrom wow for dconline alone took the online multiplayer up many notches. so on top of the much more story in tor, and that swtor has 10 times more content. literally. this game is going to rule.

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cobrax55

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#45 cobrax55
Member since 2007 • 1364 Posts

Live streaming footage right now: http://no.twitch.tv/massivelytv#

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Led_poison

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#46 Led_poison
Member since 2004 • 10146 Posts
NDA is lifted, do talk about this game
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deactivated-5d25ae64ef918

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#47 deactivated-5d25ae64ef918
Member since 2008 • 8101 Posts
Game will be great, and one of the reasons we already know that is because Bioware actually decided to hype the game with it's features, not with silly flash with no substance to appeal to the mindless drones. My only dislike is that this game is coming out in late 2011, and not two or three years ago. I've been dealing with outdated MMOs with hilariously easy difficulty in game design and mediocre fanfiction-like stories in all of them for the past four and a half years.
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dreman999

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#48 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

Ok. I started this topic and have yet to put in any comments for the game. Let's start with what I don't like.... The inflexibility and the loading time.

For one they only have 2 way to control your character and the both feel a bit uncountable. It's ether holding both the mouse buttons to move forward or the key broad. Both these styles get in the way of hot keying. They are way to get around it with tab lock on and using the number pad but I still like to have more option to how you control your character. The game has a hard time explaining how to change your preferences as well as expelling detailed things like everything about level 10. It needs an in game manual. Also, the thing that plagues every BW game is here as well, loading times..... It's not every where but it is their. Starting the game has a loading time, getting is server has a loading time, fast travel has a loading time(It a current glitch tobe fix.) Also, you can't change the ui. While the ui the way they have it does not get in the way, I still feel I should be able to change it.

On that end stating everything I hate about the game. And with that none of the thing I hate getting the way of the game. I love everything else. The thing I love the most about the game is the game world is it own character. Meaning the npc , theme, and how you interact with them is fantastic and deep. BW true put alot of time in making interaction great with moral and well though out choices. This make the game a fantastic character role playing mmorpg. While the story is great, it not the highlight, it only the thing that gets you going.The story is not the greats thing ever that will end all stories, it's the interaction and involvement in the story that get you to stay. It really let you build your characters story.

Combat at the basic level is like WOW or any hot key mmo or rpg you played. You can say it plays like DA:O with no auto attack. But that's only on the basic level, game like this only have depth in how you build your character and with that, this out shines WOW. Every c1ass is a hybrid c1ass, not on just has a straight any thing. Onec1ass may be better at something then other c1asses but it give you alot of flexibility to how you build your character.(Not more then rift.)With that their are 3 class types that have healing, 3 that have burst dps, 3 that has AoA dps, 3 that have direct dps, and 3 that has stealth....Do not that they are 4 c!asses in the game, mean bw really mix up the way these c1asses can be build.

Smuggler/Agent can have stealth and healing and burst dps or ranged tanking if in cover and dps. The counselor/inquisitor can have AoA attacks,CC,and Healing or Stealth, tanking and burst dps. THE Jedi knights/sith warrior can have tanking, burst dps, and single attack cc or direct dps, stelth and single attack cc. The trooper/bounty hunter has tanking, AoA, and some direct dps or Direct dps, Healing, and some AoA attacks. In the end each c1ass plays differently and when they specialize,which happens quickly, played even more different then other people playing the same class.

And last and most important, their is no grind. Your never forced to grind to a level to do any thing story wise or event wise other then flash points. It never gets mind numbing.

All bw has to do is iron out some things and the game will be great. Do note that this game shining note is character roleplaying.....Any one expecting BW to reinvent the wheel out side of that will not understand this game.

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Merex760

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#49 Merex760
Member since 2008 • 4381 Posts

Anyone who was doubting Bioware and this game, doubt no more. If you're stubborn and won't play an MMORPG no matter what, I feel sorry for you that you're going to miss out on TOR. As it's an MMORPG there is ALWAYS room for imrpovement, and everything that everyone wants won't be there at launch. But this game IS the BEST MMORPG to come out since WoW, and is on WoW's level of quality, if not higher because of all the RPG and story elements.

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KC_Hokie

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#50 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

Anyone who was doubting Bioware and this game, doubt no more. If you're stubborn and won't play an MMORPG no matter what, I feel sorry for you that you're going to miss out on TOR. As it's an MMORPG there is ALWAYS room for imrpovement, and everything that everyone wants won't be there at launch. But this game IS the BEST MMORPG to come out since WoW, and is on WoW's level of quality, if not higher because of all the RPG and story elements.

Merex760

I'll get it eventually for the story because I'm a Star Wars nerd. I won't subscribe long term because I dislike theme-park MMOs. On top of that there is little innovation in TOR. I also dislike the graphical style they picked. Looks outdated by about five years.