Well, Ilhan Omar is in another dilemma... and with Trump again.

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#1 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36333 posts) -

Trump recently posted a tweet of what's supposed to be an attack on Ilhan Omar and... it ain't pretty.

Washington Post

Basically a video where it's edited to link Ilhan Omar with Islamic terrorism, editing her speech before a graphic clip of the 9/11 attacks on WTC (sharing the WaPo link rather than the Trump tweet, because I feel that in and of itself is a risk).

And many Democrats aren't happy, with Pelosi saying she spoke with Capital Police to increase Omar's security.

USA Today

Make matters worse, Ilhan Omar reports that she has gotten an increased amount of death threats since that tweet.

The Hill

Yeah.... yeah. I wonder if he's trying to get someone killed one of these days. No one deserves this, even if it's someone you disagree with.

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#2 Posted by ad1x2 (7563 posts) -

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

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#3 Posted by theone86 (22417 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

What did she say about 9/11? That hate crimes against Muslims have increased since 9/11? Is that not true? That all Muslims are not responsible for 9/11? Is that not also true?

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#4 Edited by Zaryia (8934 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

"Trump Boasted On 9/11 That His Building Was Tallest After Attack"

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#5 Posted by ad1x2 (7563 posts) -

@theone86 said:
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

What did she say about 9/11? That hate crimes against Muslims have increased since 9/11? Is that not true? That all Muslims are not responsible for 9/11? Is that not also true?

Watch the video. Regardless of her intent, the way she said what she said would obviously cause some hurt feelings. People are afraid to criticize her for her comments because they don’t want to be called racist or Islamophobic.

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#6 Posted by ad1x2 (7563 posts) -

@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

"Trump Boasted On 9/11 That His Building Was Tallest After Attack"

So based on that what Omar said doesn’t matter?

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#7 Posted by theone86 (22417 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:
@theone86 said:
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

What did she say about 9/11? That hate crimes against Muslims have increased since 9/11? Is that not true? That all Muslims are not responsible for 9/11? Is that not also true?

Watch the video. Regardless of her intent, the way she said what she said would obviously cause some hurt feelings. People are afraid to criticize her for her comments because they don’t want to be called racist or Islamophobic.

What a snowflake comment, she really triggered you. I'm gonna drink your tears with with my coffee in the morning, snowflake.

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#8 Posted by ad1x2 (7563 posts) -

@theone86 said:
@ad1x2 said:
@theone86 said:
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

What did she say about 9/11? That hate crimes against Muslims have increased since 9/11? Is that not true? That all Muslims are not responsible for 9/11? Is that not also true?

Watch the video. Regardless of her intent, the way she said what she said would obviously cause some hurt feelings. People are afraid to criticize her for her comments because they don’t want to be called racist or Islamophobic.

What a snowflake comment, she really triggered you. I'm gonna drink your tears with with my coffee in the morning, snowflake.

If that is how you interpret my comment, then all power to you.

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#9 Edited by Zaryia (8934 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:
@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

"Trump Boasted On 9/11 That His Building Was Tallest After Attack"

So based on that what Omar said doesn’t matter?

Ofcourse not, it was just very tame in comparison especially in full context.

It's not deserving of this right wing furor. While Trump has said worse.

And if this is true, it gets even worse:

“I was instrumental in getting funding for small business grants for victims of 9/11, for victims in the area,” Nadler said. “Donald Trump actually took a $150,000 grant from the Bush administration. They let him take a $150,000 grant meant for small businessmen for 40 Wall Street. He stole $150,000 from some small businessperson who could have used it to rehabilitate himself. … He has no moral authority to be talking about 9/11 at all.”

Basically rampant hypocrisy.

P.S. Lets not forget the 9/11 Responders Bill fiasco with the GOP.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/09/senate.9.11.responders/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/26/again-first-responders-are-pleading-with-congress-fund-their-health-care-again-jon-stewart-is-joining-them/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5a7df02bc40e

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-health-bill-9-11-first-responders-stuck-congress-n460911

This is faux outrage. They couldn't give two shits.

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#10 Posted by ad1x2 (7563 posts) -

@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:
@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

"Trump Boasted On 9/11 That His Building Was Tallest After Attack"

So based on that what Omar said doesn’t matter?

Ofcourse not, it was just very tame in comparison especially in full context.

It's not deserving of this right wing furor. While Trump has said worse.

And if this is true, it gets even worse:

“I was instrumental in getting funding for small business grants for victims of 9/11, for victims in the area,” Nadler said. “Donald Trump actually took a $150,000 grant from the Bush administration. They let him take a $150,000 grant meant for small businessmen for 40 Wall Street. He stole $150,000 from some small businessperson who could have used it to rehabilitate himself. … He has no moral authority to be talking about 9/11 at all.”

Basically rampant hypocrisy.

In my opinion, Omar did not mean to downplay 9/11, but because of how she said what she said it was obviously going to be criticized. For people to act like she said nothing wrong and to dismiss all criticism as racism and Islamophobia just made the whole situation worse.

Unfortunately, people take snippets of full quotes to make their target sound worse all of the time. Just like with Trump’s “animals” quote which was in response to a question about MS-13; his critics made sure to leave the part out about it being about the gang so it appeared he was talking about all migrants.

In terms of that quote you put there, if you provide a source I’ll look into it tomorrow.

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#11 Posted by whiskeystrike (12185 posts) -

Americans have really milked the hell out of 9/11 considering how much damage their foreign policies have inflicted on other countries.

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#12 Posted by theone86 (22417 posts) -
@whiskeystrike said:

Americans have really milked the hell out of 9/11 considering how much damage their foreign policies have inflicted on other countries.

About 50,000 Syrians killed per year since their war started, 12,000 Iraqis per year since we invaded them, not a peep from the average American. In fact, we're already gearing up for the next war. "Where will it be this time? Iran? North Korea? Palestine? Or maybe the dark horse, Canada? Tune in next week to find out!" 2,000 Americans killed in an attack, and eighteen years later it's all "never forget!"

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#13 Posted by N64DD (11914 posts) -

@theone86 said:
@whiskeystrike said:

Americans have really milked the hell out of 9/11 considering how much damage their foreign policies have inflicted on other countries.

About 50,000 Syrians killed per year since their war started, 12,000 Iraqis per year since we invaded them, not a peep from the average American. In fact, we're already gearing up for the next war. "Where will it be this time? Iran? North Korea? Palestine? Or maybe the dark horse, Canada? Tune in next week to find out!" 2,000 Americans killed in an attack, and eighteen years later it's all "never forget!"

If you don't like it here, you're more than welcome to move.

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#14 Posted by evilross (1983 posts) -

@theone86:

Wow. If that’s what you really believe and feel I truly feel sorry for you.

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#15 Posted by Jacanuk (18603 posts) -
@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

"Trump Boasted On 9/11 That His Building Was Tallest After Attack"

Nice Whataboutism, but not surprising

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#16 Edited by Jacanuk (18603 posts) -
@evilross said:

@theone86:

Wow. If that’s what you really believe and feel I truly feel sorry for you.

Don´t bother with Theone, he is one of those who hate everything American and who think we should give it all back to the indigenous people.

Also, let´s not factor in that some of what he mentioned had nothing to do with America other than Obama was stupid enough to publically support rebels who had no chance of ever winning and who gave room for ISIS.

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#17 Posted by Jacanuk (18603 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

Trump recently posted a tweet of what's supposed to be an attack on Ilhan Omar and... it ain't pretty.

Washington Post

Basically a video where it's edited to link Ilhan Omar with Islamic terrorism, editing her speech before a graphic clip of the 9/11 attacks on WTC (sharing the WaPo link rather than the Trump tweet, because I feel that in and of itself is a risk).

And many Democrats aren't happy, with Pelosi saying she spoke with Capital Police to increase Omar's security.

USA Today

Make matters worse, Ilhan Omar reports that she has gotten an increased amount of death threats since that tweet.

The Hill

Yeah.... yeah. I wonder if he's trying to get someone killed one of these days. No one deserves this, even if it's someone you disagree with.

It´s funny that you seem to completely disregard that we have someone who is clearly supportive of certain questionable causes and who sits on the foreign affairs committee, where she has access to not just vital intel about Israel but also to the safety of America. And now 9/11 is "some people did something"

Omar can argue all she wants that it´s taken out of context but put this together with her interview with some middle-eastern reporter where she shows dangerous ideologies and hatred for Israel and Jews, it´s all building up to a person who clearly is not for our way of life.

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#18 Edited by Zaryia (8934 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:
@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

"Trump Boasted On 9/11 That His Building Was Tallest After Attack"

Nice Whataboutism, but not surprising

It would be a whataboutism if Trump wasn't the one leading the charge on this nonsense and wasn't mentioned in the OP. That's more than enough of a basis for strong hypocrisy debating grounds. Especially considering it's based off of the same exact topic of 9/11 gaffs and screw ups - which Trump has her beat in by quite a bit.

Furthermore the person I responded to said this,

It’s not like you can say what she said about 9/11 and not expect a backlash, even if she may have been taken out of context or simply chose her words poorly.

He set himself up for this. I'm sorry if you don't like my perfectly placed response.

Please deal with the rampant hypocrisy, and don't incorrectly use fallacy terms to ignore it.

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#19 Edited by Zaryia (8934 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

Trump recently posted a tweet of what's supposed to be an attack on Ilhan Omar and... it ain't pretty.

It´s funny that you seem to completely disregard that we have someone who is clearly supportive of certain questionable causes and who sits on the foreign affairs committee, where she has access to not just vital intel about Israel but also to the safety of America. And now 9/11 is "some people did something"

Omar can argue all she wants that it´s taken out of context but put this together with her interview with some middle-eastern reporter where she shows dangerous ideologies and hatred for Israel and Jews, it´s all building up to a person who clearly is not for our way of life.

Speaking of "completely disregarding" - just to be clear, you feel the same way about Trump correct?

This isn't a rhetorical question or whataboutism, I'm genuinely curious to see if you are as tribal as other Republicans are being over this. Your answer should help clear that up.

P.S. I'm also curious on your thoughts of the GOP's handling of 9/11 Responder bills over the last few decades. Just want to see if you're as faux outraged as the rest of the conservatives.

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#20 Posted by Jacanuk (18603 posts) -

@zaryia: Sorry not going to engage with you when all you come with is whataboutism.

If you can stick to the topic and not completely wreck this thread, perhaps then we can have a proper debate but until then.......

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#21 Posted by Sevenizz (3901 posts) -

How the hell did she get elected?

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#22 Edited by Zaryia (8934 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:

@zaryia: Sorry not going to engage with you when all you come with is whataboutism.

That's okay, I thought you would be too scared to answer my simple question that I'm genuinely curious to know, and incorrectly state a fallacy instead.

Just to be clear, you feel the same way about Trump correct?

Feel free to answer this extremely simple inquiry. Trump is the one leading the charge on Omar, yet has said and done worse on the same exact topic (9/11). This is glaring hypocrisy, and there is zero issues in discussing or debating it.

@Jacanuk said:

perhaps then we can have a proper debate but until then.......

That's hard when you keep running from the debate on Trump and Omar. Probably because you've already seen the data and know it's impossible to win

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#23 Edited by Jacanuk (18603 posts) -
@Sevenizz said:

How the hell did she get elected?

She ran in a district where about 80% is democrats and most are minorities

Which is also why she beat her Democratic opponents in the Democratic primary, it´s a shame Keith Ellison decided to quit and run for AG.

But one can only hope that she has alienated enough so next time in 2020 she is gone. But I have a feeling Democrats stick together and they will run her unopposed

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#24 Edited by Zaryia (8934 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:

But one can only hope that she has alienated enough so next time in 2020 she is gone.

Why do you hope she is gone?

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#25 Posted by Solaryellow (4933 posts) -

@ad1x2 said:

In my opinion, Omar did not mean to downplay 9/11, but because of how she said what she said it was obviously going to be criticized. For people to act like she said nothing wrong and to dismiss all criticism as racism and Islamophobia just made the whole situation worse.

Every single time someone speaks against a protected class, phobia is used. People can dislike something or speak against something w/o fearing it which is what is meant when the "phobia" card is pulled.

People can read the entire body of her comments to see if she was taken out of context.

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#26 Edited by comp_atkins (35731 posts) -

link to non-paywall video?

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#27 Posted by Sevenizz (3901 posts) -

@zaryia: Why do you hope she is not?

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#28 Edited by Zaryia (8934 posts) -
@Sevenizz said:

@zaryia: Why do you hope she is not?

I don't. And this is the disconnect.

I don't like her. But I'm not a hypocrite, I also don't want Trump to be because he's an even bigger shit-head.

No hypocrisy or tribalism here.

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#29 Posted by Sevenizz (3901 posts) -

@zaryia: Ah right, you’re a leftist. I forgot that logic and sense defies your kind.

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#30 Posted by texasgoldrush (12879 posts) -

@Sevenizz said:

How the hell did she get elected?

Because her district is D+26, and she will not lose re-election either.

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#31 Edited by Jacanuk (18603 posts) -
@texasgoldrush said:
@Sevenizz said:

How the hell did she get elected?

Because her district is D+26, and she will not lose re-election either.

Well, that depends on who the Democrats put up against her, Remember there will be a primary and if the Democrats care about America they will hopefully put up someone who will win.

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#32 Posted by Miyomatic (2637 posts) -

She's clearly out of touch with the average American. Libs wanna pile on Trump instead of teaching their new mascot how to politic.

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#33 Edited by texasgoldrush (12879 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@Sevenizz said:

How the hell did she get elected?

Because her district is D+26, and she will not lose re-election either.

Well, that depends on who the Democrats put up against her, Remember there will be a primary and if the Democrats care about America they will hopefully put up someone who will win.

And Ilhan will win in a primary.

Trump got Ilhan re-elected basically, her district will not stand for his attacks on her.

Incumbents losing primaries for the Dems is actually rare. AOC and Pressley bucked the trend, but they ran to the left of the incumbents.

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#34 Posted by theone86 (22417 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:
@evilross said:

@theone86:

Wow. If that’s what you really believe and feel I truly feel sorry for you.

Don´t bother with Theone, he is one of those who hate everything American and who think we should give it all back to the indigenous people.

Also, let´s not factor in that some of what he mentioned had nothing to do with America other than Obama was stupid enough to publically support rebels who had no chance of ever winning and who gave room for ISIS.

Wow, a dumbshit comment from a conservative, NEVER heard that before.

Here's the real problem, is you conjobs go around acting like you actually give a shit about human life when you don't. Even with American, you just use deaths as a cudgel to slander people you don't like. A Muslim woman says something you don't like and you fly off the handle with the whole "she hates America!" bullshit. That's not actually caring about the people who died on 9/11. And even if it were, you still don't give a shit about anyone else around the world. You think you can go around dismissing death everywhere else, but the minute it happens on our soil you expect the whole goddamn world to stop for you. And even when the entire world does stop for you, even when the entire country year after year after year after year goes through the whole "never forget" crap, it's still not enough for you. One woman says one thing about having to endure increased levels of discrimination after 9/11 (objectively proven several times over), and you start lobbing your bullshit allegations of "they hate America!" But we shouldn't expect conservatives to be smart enough to actually get any new material. seventy years ago it was McCarthy calling everyone he disagreed with a communist, you've just switched it up to ant-American. Same shit, different day red-baiter.

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#35 Posted by mrbojangles25 (44044 posts) -

It's funny because Omar, along with a few others, is pretty much the Democratic equivalent of Trump, at least when it comes to demeanor. She says what is on her mind, doesn't really come off as a politician, and often appears insensitive.

However, unlike Trump, she is not a blatant asshole. So I guess that is why people hate her? Go figure...

@Miyomatic said:

She's clearly out of touch with the average American. Libs wanna pile on Trump instead of teaching their new mascot how to politic.

That's pretty funny in light of how Trump was elected for not being a politician. So it's OK for a lying, cheating, corrupt asshole to go "I'm not a politician, I am something different", but when a female and a muslim does it, suddenly it's "REMEMBER 9/11!!!"

Divide that country, folks. DIVIDE!

@theone86 said:
@whiskeystrike said:

Americans have really milked the hell out of 9/11 considering how much damage their foreign policies have inflicted on other countries.

About 50,000 Syrians killed per year since their war started, 12,000 Iraqis per year since we invaded them, not a peep from the average American. In fact, we're already gearing up for the next war. "Where will it be this time? Iran? North Korea? Palestine? Or maybe the dark horse, Canada? Tune in next week to find out!" 2,000 Americans killed in an attack, and eighteen years later it's all "never forget!"

I agree it's shitty what US foreign policy has done to the world, but you can't quantify suffering. It could be 1,000 Americans or 1 million Americans killed, whatever causes such terrible situation warrants a response.

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#36 Posted by Jacanuk (18603 posts) -
@theone86 said:
@Jacanuk said:
@evilross said:

@theone86:

Wow. If that’s what you really believe and feel I truly feel sorry for you.

Don´t bother with Theone, he is one of those who hate everything American and who think we should give it all back to the indigenous people.

Also, let´s not factor in that some of what he mentioned had nothing to do with America other than Obama was stupid enough to publically support rebels who had no chance of ever winning and who gave room for ISIS.

"snip a lot of anger"

You know what the problem is here

You are so sure of your own position that you can´t fathom that anyone can´t see the same golden truth as you see it and those who are opposed to this golden truth must be "insane"

I wonder though with the hatred you show on this board and the anger, are you for or against physical assaulting people who are opposed to your side?

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#37 Posted by sonicare (56758 posts) -

Honestly, I don't mind the bulk of her comments. I didn't think her comments about Israel were antisemitic. I'm not sure what she said about 9/11, but I have no doubt it was twisted to serve whatever needs.

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#38 Posted by Baconstrip78 (1380 posts) -

He’s a fat dumb white-trash president.

Not shocked at all.

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#39 Posted by theone86 (22417 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:
@theone86 said:
@Jacanuk said:
@evilross said:

@theone86:

Wow. If that’s what you really believe and feel I truly feel sorry for you.

Don´t bother with Theone, he is one of those who hate everything American and who think we should give it all back to the indigenous people.

Also, let´s not factor in that some of what he mentioned had nothing to do with America other than Obama was stupid enough to publically support rebels who had no chance of ever winning and who gave room for ISIS.

"snip a lot of anger"

You know what the problem is here

You are so sure of your own position that you can´t fathom that anyone can´t see the same golden truth as you see it and those who are opposed to this golden truth must be "insane"

I wonder though with the hatred you show on this board and the anger, are you for or against physical assaulting people who are opposed to your side?

And you're so full of shit it's coming out your ears. You blather on and on about respecting all sides, civility, blah, blah, blah, but you're the one who completely cut my post in order to dismiss it out of hand. It's probably because you don't have the ability to honestly debate anything I've said, probably because you were raised in some safe space all your life. Awww, poor snowflake you are. Come back when you have, well, an actual comeback.

@mrbojangles25 said:

It's funny because Omar, along with a few others, is pretty much the Democratic equivalent of Trump, at least when it comes to demeanor. She says what is on her mind, doesn't really come off as a politician, and often appears insensitive.

However, unlike Trump, she is not a blatant asshole. So I guess that is why people hate her? Go figure...

@Miyomatic said:

She's clearly out of touch with the average American. Libs wanna pile on Trump instead of teaching their new mascot how to politic.

That's pretty funny in light of how Trump was elected for not being a politician. So it's OK for a lying, cheating, corrupt asshole to go "I'm not a politician, I am something different", but when a female and a muslim does it, suddenly it's "REMEMBER 9/11!!!"

Divide that country, folks. DIVIDE!

@theone86 said:
@whiskeystrike said:

Americans have really milked the hell out of 9/11 considering how much damage their foreign policies have inflicted on other countries.

About 50,000 Syrians killed per year since their war started, 12,000 Iraqis per year since we invaded them, not a peep from the average American. In fact, we're already gearing up for the next war. "Where will it be this time? Iran? North Korea? Palestine? Or maybe the dark horse, Canada? Tune in next week to find out!" 2,000 Americans killed in an attack, and eighteen years later it's all "never forget!"

I agree it's shitty what US foreign policy has done to the world, but you can't quantify suffering. It could be 1,000 Americans or 1 million Americans killed, whatever causes such terrible situation warrants a response.

Of course I can, I just did. Losing a loved one sucks, people losing 2,000 loved ones sucks, but it's nothing compared to living in a constant state of war where everyone you know has lost loved ones, where going about your daily routine is like playing Russian roulette. Literally, it changes your state of mind. It puts the population into a state of hyper-awareness that leads to depression and PTSD. There are entire countries that are chronically depressed because they're acutely aware that at any moment they could be killed by a war they have nothing to do with. That is objectively worse than living in a country with a high standard of living that suffered a terrible attack eighteen years ago.

The problem is that I shouldn't HAVE to quantify it. It shouldn't be a goddamned struggle to get people who have experienced something terrible to have empathy for people who have experienced something worse, yet here we are. Like I said before, we've been offering our sympathies to 9/11 victims non-stop since it happened, and what do we get for it? The moment we point out that anti-Muslim discrimination has increased or that our country has caused far worse just to satisfy our politicians' avarice we get labelled anti-American. Without fail, one word that they don't like and they go straight to accusations of treason. One day I hope you wake up and realize the truth of what I said, that people like Jac don't give a shit about 9/11 victims, they only use them as a bludgeon to shut up people whose opinions they disagree with.