Trump admin pardons two service members accused of war crimes, restores rank to one of them

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nintendoboy16

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#1 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 36779 Posts

NPR

President Trump has issued pardons for two Army officers accused of war crimes in Afghanistan and restored the rank of a Navy SEAL who was acquitted of murder in Iraq.

"For more than two hundred years, presidents have used their authority to offer second chances to deserving individuals, including those in uniform who have served our country," said White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham in a statement released late Friday. "These actions are in keeping with this long history."

The officers include 1st Lt. Clint Lorance who has served six years of a 19-year sentence on two charges of second-degree murder and obstruction of justice after ordering his soldiers to open fire on three unarmed men in Afghanistan, killing two of them. He had been convicted in 2013.

The other pardoned officer is Maj. Matthew Golsteyn, a West Point graduate, who was awaiting trial for allegedly murdering a suspected Afghan bombmaker in 2010. The trial was scheduled for next year.

The president also restored the rank of Special Warfare Operator Chief Edward Gallagher, a Navy SEAL, who was convicted of posing with a corpse of an enemy combatant in Iraq. Gallagher had been acquitted of murder and other serious charges in July 2019.

Some current and former Pentagon officials say the pardons, while legal, could undermine the military justice system.

Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy had argued against clearing the three men as a bad example to other troops in the field, according to The New York Times.

Without saying whether he supported the exoneration of the three service members, Esper told reporters last week that he had "a robust discussion with the president" about their cases.

In May, Trump indicated that he favored leniency towards the service members whose cases were highlighted by conservative media.

"Some of these soldiers are people that have fought hard and long," said the president. "You know, we teach them how to be great fighters, and then when they fight sometimes they get really treated very unfairly."

In the White House statement, press secretary Grisham underscored the notion that Trump will have the last word on military justice.

"The President, as Commander-in-Chief, is ultimately responsible for ensuring that the law is enforced and when appropriate, that mercy is granted," she wrote.

This will go well, I'm sure.

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LJS9502_basic

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#2 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167965 Posts

I don't think murderers should be pardoned unless it was self defense.

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Zaryia

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#3 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10412 Posts

What's with some GOP members loving when you kill browns.

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Horgen

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#4 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121716 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: This also means admitting guilt to said crimes, doesn't it?

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#5  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14669 Posts

I'm extremely skeptical he even looked into the details of any of these cases. Hell, the man can't even be bothered to read.Not surprising that a guy who cares not a whit for law and order himself so easily pardons those who fail to abide it.

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N64DD

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#6 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 12234 Posts

@zaryia: What is typical of your age group is you’re going right to the color of someones skin instead of the context of who they are, which is in itself racist and against what martin luther king jr stood for.

No wonder he wants to move to Canada.

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Zaryia

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#7 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10412 Posts

@n64dd said:

@zaryia: What is typical of your age group is you’re going right to the color of someones skin instead of the context of who they are, which is in itself racist and against what martin luther king jr stood for.

No wonder he wants to move to Canada.

Okay.

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watercrack445

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#8  Edited By watercrack445
Member since 2017 • 2101 Posts

Trump is a closeted white nationallist. That explains why. He is only looking out for White America.

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mrbojangles25

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#9 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 45018 Posts

We need to have higher standards than this. If it were up to me I'd let the government of the country where the crime occurred try them. Afghani and Iraqi justice is probably pretty harsh...

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N64DD

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#10 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 12234 Posts

A lot of racists of whites in this thread.

Trump is such a white nationalist, he invited Kanye to the white house.

You people are pretty special.

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warmblur

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#11  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 3539 Posts
@n64dd said:

A lot of racists of whites in this thread.

Trump is such a white nationalist, he invited Kanye to the white house.

You people are pretty special.

That doesn't mean shit lol he uses people every second he can and also Kanye is a fanboy for Trump or at least he was. Trump will invite anybody to the White house if they kiss his ass enough times he loves anybody that will say positive things about him especially famous people.

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#12 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 12234 Posts

@warmblur: You wouldn’t be saying that if he isn’t white.

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#13  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14669 Posts

@n64dd said:

@zaryia: What is typical of your age group is you’re going right to the color of someones skin instead of the context of who they are, which is in itself racist and against what martin luther king jr stood for.

No wonder he wants to move to Canada.

Blind nationalism isn't much better than racism in Trump pardoning injustice. I think if he had his way, he'd pardon all soldiers and their crimes and relegate our military justice system irrelevant under the guise of nationalism. Do you agree with that?

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#14 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121716 Posts

@n64dd said:

A lot of racists of whites in this thread.

Trump is such a white nationalist, he invited Kanye to the white house.

You people are pretty special.

2 equals a lot? You may want to lower your trolling attempts.

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warmblur

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#15 warmblur
Member since 2017 • 3539 Posts

@n64dd said:

@warmblur: You wouldn’t be saying that if he isn’t white.

Umm, I'm no SJW so that shit doesn't matter to me.

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#16 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 12234 Posts

@horgen: not trolling. People bring up how he wants to murder brown people and that he’s a white nationalist because playing the race card riles up the crowds of ignorant people these days. It’s getting old.

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LJS9502_basic

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#17 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167965 Posts

@n64dd said:

@horgen: not trolling. People bring up how he wants to murder brown people and that he’s a white nationalist because playing the race card riles up the crowds of ignorant people these days. It’s getting old.

So you're using the old I can't be a racist because I have a minority friend argument...……..really?

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Horgen

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#18 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121716 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@n64dd said:

@horgen: not trolling. People bring up how he wants to murder brown people and that he’s a white nationalist because playing the race card riles up the crowds of ignorant people these days. It’s getting old.

So you're using the old I can't be a racist because I have a minority friend argument...……..really?

And he sends more troops more to Saudi Arabia. Clearly not racist.

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#19  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14669 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:
@n64dd said:

@zaryia: What is typical of your age group is you’re going right to the color of someones skin instead of the context of who they are, which is in itself racist and against what martin luther king jr stood for.

No wonder he wants to move to Canada.

Blind nationalism isn't much better than racism in Trump pardoning injustice. I think if he had his way, he'd pardon all soldiers and their crimes and relegate our military justice system irrelevant under the guise of nationalism. Do you agree with that?

I take it from your lack of response that you do agree with that. That's a bit depressing.

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Zaryia

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#20 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10412 Posts
@n64dd said:

Trump is such a white nationalist,

That's Stephen Miller.

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N64DD

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#21 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 12234 Posts

@horgen: maybe theres a reason besides “

He hate brown people”.

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#22 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121716 Posts

@n64dd said:

@horgen: maybe theres a reason besides “

He hate brown people”.

The way he speaks about Hispanics, and immigrants in general, suggests otherwise. But hey he might just be severely misinformed about immigrants.

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Gatygun

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#23 Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 1694 Posts

Dam this topic has some racists in it that hate white people.

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#24 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 723 Posts

@Gatygun said:

Dam this topic has some racists in it that hate white people.

*White guys commit war crimes*

*Rational people are outraged that they got away with it*

Right wingers: "you just have white people".

ok, boomer

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#25 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2664 Posts

Why wasn't Obama charged with war crimes? How many civilians did he kill with his drone strikes? Lets look at the Obama military pardons a deserter, and a traitor vs Trump's pardon of military personnel that had to make split second decisions which proved the people killed were in fact enemy bomb makers.

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#26 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 12234 Posts

@rmpumper said:
@Gatygun said:

Dam this topic has some racists in it that hate white people.

*White guys commit war crimes*

*Rational people are outraged that they got away with it*

Right wingers: "you just have white people".

ok, boomer

@zaryia said:

What's with some GOP members loving when you kill browns.

*yawn*

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#27 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22626 Posts

There are several high-ranking military officials that came out against this, said it was a bad move, said it corrodes trust in the military both domestically and abroad, said that troops have a responsibility to hold themselves to a high standard of behavior and submit to proper judgement when they don't, but I guess the whole right-wing fetish for authority figures goes out the window the minute they say something that goes against their agenda. No, this must just be a bunch of SJWs getting upset.

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#28  Edited By Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 1694 Posts

@theone86 said:

There are several high-ranking military officials that came out against this, said it was a bad move, said it corrodes trust in the military both domestically and abroad, said that troops have a responsibility to hold themselves to a high standard of behavior and submit to proper judgement when they don't, but I guess the whole right-wing fetish for authority figures goes out the window the minute they say something that goes against their agenda. No, this must just be a bunch of SJWs getting upset.

Pardoning is always a bad move by itself. Because u basically say bye justice, our ruler decides what's up.

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Gatygun

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#29  Edited By Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 1694 Posts
@rmpumper said:
@Gatygun said:

Dam this topic has some racists in it that hate white people.

*White guys commit war crimes*

*Rational people are outraged that they got away with it*

Right wingers: "you just have white people".

ok, boomer

Guy commits war crimes.

Rational people will get outraged by it

Racists people white black white black white black

Ok

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theone86

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#30 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22626 Posts

@Gatygun said:
@theone86 said:

There are several high-ranking military officials that came out against this, said it was a bad move, said it corrodes trust in the military both domestically and abroad, said that troops have a responsibility to hold themselves to a high standard of behavior and submit to proper judgement when they don't, but I guess the whole right-wing fetish for authority figures goes out the window the minute they say something that goes against their agenda. No, this must just be a bunch of SJWs getting upset.

Pardoning is always a bad move by itself. Because u basically say bye justice, our ruler decides what's up.

I mean, it has actually been used in the past to correct flaws in the justice system, most notably FDR using it to pardon thousands of people convicted of crimes under a law that was later found unconstitutional. It can also be used to end sentences prematurely if the original sentence seems overly harsh, like when President Obama pardoned Chelsea Manning. It's also been used to save political allies, like when President Ford pardoned his direct predecessor and when President Bush pardoned anyone caught up in Iran Contra. At the end of the day you need people to treat the pardon with respect and the president to use it with restraint, which is exactly why it's a very, hugely, bigly bad idea to have someone like Trump as president, like we ****ing told everybody to begin with.

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#31 Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 1694 Posts

@theone86 said:
@Gatygun said:
@theone86 said:

There are several high-ranking military officials that came out against this, said it was a bad move, said it corrodes trust in the military both domestically and abroad, said that troops have a responsibility to hold themselves to a high standard of behavior and submit to proper judgement when they don't, but I guess the whole right-wing fetish for authority figures goes out the window the minute they say something that goes against their agenda. No, this must just be a bunch of SJWs getting upset.

Pardoning is always a bad move by itself. Because u basically say bye justice, our ruler decides what's up.

I mean, it has actually been used in the past to correct flaws in the justice system, most notably FDR using it to pardon thousands of people convicted of crimes under a law that was later found unconstitutional. It can also be used to end sentences prematurely if the original sentence seems overly harsh, like when President Obama pardoned Chelsea Manning. It's also been used to save political allies, like when President Ford pardoned his direct predecessor and when President Bush pardoned anyone caught up in Iran Contra. At the end of the day you need people to treat the pardon with respect and the president to use it with restraint, which is exactly why it's a very, hugely, bigly bad idea to have someone like Trump as president, like we ****ing told everybody to begin with.

I can see how it makes sense if your court system is corrupt as hell.

If it's not, its a massive spit in the face to victims / family / court system / justice in general and other jailed for the samish offenses that do not have the privilege as knowing the president etc.

Also how far does this go? Can he just when his presidency ends just basically pardon himself and everybody that is investigated anyway? what's the point really about pulling people into court at this point. They get set free with a single pardon from trump. Dude and his buddy's are completely imuum then.

Yea gg.

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#32 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22626 Posts

@Gatygun said:
@theone86 said:
@Gatygun said:
@theone86 said:

There are several high-ranking military officials that came out against this, said it was a bad move, said it corrodes trust in the military both domestically and abroad, said that troops have a responsibility to hold themselves to a high standard of behavior and submit to proper judgement when they don't, but I guess the whole right-wing fetish for authority figures goes out the window the minute they say something that goes against their agenda. No, this must just be a bunch of SJWs getting upset.

Pardoning is always a bad move by itself. Because u basically say bye justice, our ruler decides what's up.

I mean, it has actually been used in the past to correct flaws in the justice system, most notably FDR using it to pardon thousands of people convicted of crimes under a law that was later found unconstitutional. It can also be used to end sentences prematurely if the original sentence seems overly harsh, like when President Obama pardoned Chelsea Manning. It's also been used to save political allies, like when President Ford pardoned his direct predecessor and when President Bush pardoned anyone caught up in Iran Contra. At the end of the day you need people to treat the pardon with respect and the president to use it with restraint, which is exactly why it's a very, hugely, bigly bad idea to have someone like Trump as president, like we ****ing told everybody to begin with.

I can see how it makes sense if your court system is corrupt as hell.

If it's not, its a massive spit in the face to victims / family / court system / justice in general and other jailed for the samish offenses that do not have the privilege as knowing the president etc.

Also how far does this go? Can he just when his presidency ends just basically pardon himself and everybody that is investigated anyway? what's the point really about pulling people into court at this point. They get set free with a single pardon from trump. Dude and his buddy's are completely imuum then.

Yea gg.

Even when the courts are working at their best there are still holes. The alien and sedition acts, for example, would have had everyone convicted under them released eventually, but it would have taken a lot more time without FDR's pardoning of them. Most people who were captured as part of the Whiskey Rebellion had the book thrown at them (convicted of treason) and were pardoned to avoid civil unrest because it was such a volatile issue. Several people were pardoned for helping slaves escape or being escaped slaves themselves. Plenty of Native Americans were pardoned after being convicted for fighting the U.S. Army which was pretty blatantly breaking treaties with them. And there are a ton of pardons throughout history of people whose first amendment rights were being pretty blatantly violated. Beyond that, gubernatorial pardons have been used to effectively end the death sentence in certain states.

Now I agree that if everything worked as it should this all would never have been an issue in the first place, but nothing ever works exactly as it should. If you get rid of pardons you risk judges being too harsh, too lenient, too activist, or any combination of those. If you keep pardons you risk presidents and governors abusing them. No matter what you do you need responsible people in positions of power, period. Il faut cultiver notre jardin.

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#33 THUMPTABLE
Member since 2003 • 2126 Posts

@n64dd said:

@zaryia: What is typical of your age group is you’re going right to the color of someones skin instead of the context of who they are, which is in itself racist and against what martin luther king jr stood for.

No wonder he wants to move to Canada.

What's wrong with Canada cock?

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#34 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 44959 Posts

@THUMPTABLE: missing some important punctuation there haha

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#35 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 12234 Posts

@THUMPTABLE said:
@n64dd said:

@zaryia: What is typical of your age group is you’re going right to the color of someones skin instead of the context of who they are, which is in itself racist and against what martin luther king jr stood for.

No wonder he wants to move to Canada.

What's wrong with Canada cock?

Whatever makes you happy man.

LOL

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#36  Edited By Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 2892 Posts

Criminals doing criminal things. That's what Trumpettes do, no matter what their occupation is.

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#37 Baconstrip78
Member since 2013 • 1445 Posts

He’s placating his John Wayne-worshipping silver-haired baby-boomer cultists, who despite being the only generation in American history to spit on veterans as they returned home from a war zone, have decided in their old age that they are the most patriotic generation and give members of the military a pass even when they commit an atrocity.