Signs of massacre in Bucha spark calls for war-crime probes

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HoolaHoopMan

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#51 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin said:
@ghost_of_phobos said:

There's two things you can't take away from trumpanzees. The desire to betray their own country and unshakable urge to spew Kremlin propaganda.

This has nothing to do with Trump. Non-interventionism and avoiding foreign entanglements is something conducive with the foundation of this country. It's something that helped us to become a great power; minding our own business. Calling everything that strays from the narrative unpatriotic or "Russia propaganda" is just as reductive and stupid as Bush saying "you're either with us or with the terrorists". Perhaps even more so. At least the terrorists attacked us.

LOL Ignoring foreign entanglements? I hate to break it to you but the late 1700s and all of the 1800s are marred by intentional US lead wars, conflicts, and entanglements. Or do we not count the wars and slaughters that we start on our own now too? Did the north 'entangle' themselves with the south leading to the civil war?!

You can't call of country 'non-inventionalist' if it's going around waging war on it's neighbors, displacing their people, and absorbing their land.

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deactivated-628e6669daebe

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#52 deactivated-628e6669daebe
Member since 2020 • 3637 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin: Interesting revisionism.

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WitIsWisdom

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#53  Edited By WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 9592 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

We're about 6 weeks into the invasion and according to the UN, there are 1.5K dead civilians. The US had killed 7.5K civilians within the same time frame in Iraq.

False equivalency. Russia is deliberately targeting civilians. The US does not. Collateral damage occurs but let's not equate that with what Russia is doing.

I usually disagree with almost everything you say on the political board, but you are absolutely right on this account. In Iraq not only were living quarters much closer together with large masses of people mixed with the terrorists, insurgents, and mercenaries, but they also intentionally attacked US forces in highly populated civilian areas to try and maximize their own people's casualties in order to try and turn those sitting on the fence against us.

These terrorists moved into civilian populations and threatened their lives if they left so they could use them as meat shields like the cowards they were. These people would take over areas largely inhibited with civilians that were too scared to leave. That created a very difficult problem and the ones who survived were the ones who left.

Thousands upon thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths were caused by their own people in an attempt to scare the non believers into joining their resistance. Not only that, but the majority of the fighting happened in 3 major cities. Also add the fact that we went through the cities playing over loud speakers that all civilians, women, and children needed to leave the cities 3 to 4 days before we went in and were not targeting evacuation routes and/or mosques, schools, or holy sites unless the terrorists were using those sites as strongholds and proper reconnaissance was done to ensure their were minimum civilian activity or people living in those sectors. I should know.. I was there.

This is much different. The military and civilians support their president in Ukraine and they are fighting for their continued freedom and independence and not what was basically religious cults (including mercenaries paid to fight from other countries) and frightened civilians fighting under false pretenses of promised riches and security for their families under the holy banners that could not lose. They used the people's own religion against them.

The Iraqi soldiers in Baghdad laid their arms down and surrendered because they did not want to follow Sadam or be stuck in an endless rut. They knew removing Sadam from power was for their own interest as did most of the civilian population. The only people who thrived under Sadam were his chosen few and the terrorist organizations he funded while most people suffered greatly.

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WitIsWisdom

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#54  Edited By WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 9592 Posts
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@LJS9502_basic: LOL. American exceptionalism at its finest. Most of the Arab world sees shock and awe as terrorism by another name, and for good reason. Most casualties from the initial invasion were civilian. And in case you forgot,

No.. just no. There is a big difference between going in and warning civilians to leave and then fighting a war against a repressive regime from that of actively targeting schools, churches, civilian populations (homes, apartments, local businesses, grocery stores, and pharmacies) and retreat routes. If you can't see the difference then I don't even know what say.

Look, I can see that you and I probably see a little more eye to eye on politics than a lot of people in here due to your quote at the bottom, but thinking you know about something when all you ever got was 2nd hand reports is ridiculous. We were thanked thousands of times by civilians and soldiers who joined the IFF after Sadam was removed from power. Not a single person I talked to had any sympathy for Sadam (including MANY members of families who lost loved ones during the war) or his followers and the mere mention of them was met with fire in their eyes and a clear change of demeanor that clearly showed despise and hate. After he was removed people were regularly in the streets in what looked like parades cheering us on and lighting huge stacks of currency with Hussein's face printed on them on fire and cheering as it burned.... those are the things that "reports" and the "news" never show or talk about.

Those people had no love for that coward or the misery he brought them, but the people of Ukraine stand behind Zelenskyy and have been willing to fight for him and their homeland to the biter end.

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WitIsWisdom

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#55 WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 9592 Posts
@ghost_of_phobos said:

There's two things you can't take away from trumpanzees. The desire to betray their own country and unshakable urge to spew Kremlin propaganda.

lol.. you are a living meme.

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uninspiredcup

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#56  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59290 Posts

Russian has been doubling and tripling down in misinformation, trying to blur and misdirect.

Problem they have, and increasingly apparent, we aren't in the 80's or 90's any-more. While they may have a tight-hold largely inside Russia, outside it, information on this war has been viewed in detail like never before possible. And poor old Russia sending out old fat dudes to "bla bla something fake something provocation", can't get around it.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/satellite-images-show-civilian-deaths-ukraine-town-while-it-was-russian-hands-2022-04-05/

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uninspiredcup

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#57 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59290 Posts

Even tripping over his own sentences.

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deactivated-628e6669daebe

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#58 deactivated-628e6669daebe
Member since 2020 • 3637 Posts

@uninspiredcup: There's a lot of good articles done about the Kremlin's strategy of chaos. Which was also used in the west by... It's ok to lie and contradic yourself constantly, that's how you generate "alternative facts" in the information era.

Not going to point to anything in particular but a quick Google search will return interesting reads.

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uninspiredcup

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#59 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59290 Posts

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10690839/Car-rams-Russian-Embassy-gate-Romania-driver-dead.html

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#60 deactivated-628e6669daebe
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@uninspiredcup:

The Russian embassy said no employees were injured and the man had 'committed this act under the influence of an explosion of anti-Russian hysteria in connection with a staged provocation in the city of Bucha'.

I can not not laugh.

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uninspiredcup

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#61  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59290 Posts

He's not wrong. While the war isn't over, sure as **** ain't goodwill, Russia lost that. They know it and probably knew well in advance it was never going to happen but Putin stooges (much like that there Hitler fellow) would be too scared to spit him facts.

Russia = shit army, shit supplies, poor tactics, shit barely working equipment

Anyway cut it, aside from disgracing Russia as a whole, he's disgraced it's own military by showing their perceived enemies just how inept they are. Absolutely clueless goobers whos only thing of note is terrorizing and killing civilians.

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uninspiredcup

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#62  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59290 Posts

Sky News had a full interview with Dmitry Peskov, flashing him masses of evidence and low-key calling him a horrible piece of shit.

30 odd min, try get a condensed version for the lazy.

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