Republicans advance more than 100 bills that would restrict voting in wake of Trump's defeat

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Zaryia

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#1  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

Republicans advance more than 100 bills that would restrict voting in wake of Trump's defeat

State lawmakers are considering more than 100 laws that would make it harder to vote, according to an analysis conducted by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law. This number represents almost triple the number of similarly restrictive bills under consideration this time last year, according to the analysis.

Mail-in voting proved key to Biden's victory, as more Democrats than Republicans embraced the method rather than congregating at the polls as an uncontrolled pandemic raged. Experts have attributed this split to then-President Donald Trump's unrelenting effort to sow doubt in the integrity of the 2020 race with false claims that vote-by-mail is inherently fraudulent, and appeals to his supporters to vote in person.

Now, Republicans have zeroed in on mail-in voting for new restrictions and rollbacks, in some cases targeting laws the GOP had championed years before the pandemic.

Hopefully congress acts fast on election reform. This is insane. Do the Republican posters here feel this kind of cheating is required? Would you rather your politicians just try to win mopre over the people compared to reducing the vote of the other side?

Georgia Republicans File Sweeping Elections Bill To Limit Early And Absentee Voting

Republicans in the Georgia legislature have released legislation that proposes tougher restrictions on both absentee and in-person early voting, among other sweeping changes to election laws after an election in which Democrats won the presidential race in the state and flipped two U.S. Senate seats.

The bill, HB 531, filed by GOP state Rep. Barry Fleming was introduced directly into the Georgia House's Special Committee on Election Integrity on Thursday, and the text of the bill was made available about an hour before a hearing.

Many of the changes in the bill would predominantly affect larger, minority-heavy Democratic strongholds of the state, constituencies that helped President Biden narrowly defeat former President Donald Trump in the state last November, then boosted Democratic Sens. Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff in Georgia's January runoff elections. In recent months, many Republicans at the local, state and federal level have pushed false claims of election fraud, and lawmakers in Georgia have vowed to change laws in response.

I knew the fake mass election fraud nonsense was just a ruse to suppress voting. The GOP needs this, they are less and less popular.

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horgen

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#2 horgen  Moderator
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Even in person voting isn't safe.

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appariti0n

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#3 appariti0n
Member since 2009 • 5013 Posts

Everything I've been able to find on this indicates that mail in ballots don't really favor or disadvantage either side. So, more pointless political posturing essentially.

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Vaasman

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#4 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15578 Posts

Republican policy is deeply unfavored by the population at large so this isn't surprising. Only way it can win anymore is by cheating.

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#5 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
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@zaryia Hopefully congress acts fast on election reform. This is insane. Do the Republican posters here feel this kind of cheating is required? Would you rather your politicians just try to win mopre over the people compared to reducing the vote of the other side?

The same sort of hyperbolic silliness can be applied to the flip side in Democratic states; "thirty-seven states have introduced expansive policies, for a total of 541 expansive bills introduced or carried over into 2021."

There should be common sense solutions to increasing the security/confidence of the elections while expanding access to every able US citizen.

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Silentchief

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#6  Edited By Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 6903 Posts

Lol more voter supression conspiracies?

Democrats have gone so bat shit crazy that requiring a valid ID is now considered voter supression.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#7  Edited By HoolaHoopMan
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The GOP is moving close and closer to authoritarian ideals. They're an active threat to American democracy. The 'voter fraud' excuse is a myth, which these muppets can't even provide evidence of in court.

The republican party is a cesspool run by opportunistic grifters which is why they'll always remain the minority party. Given that they don't want to change their platform to entice voters to cross the aisle and vote for them, their only option is voter suppression and insurrectionist acts like January 6th.

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VFighter

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#8 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

You mean make voting safer/fraud free, seems you misspelled that. It's ok, you get a lot wrong.

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appariti0n

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#9 appariti0n
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@Stevo_the_gamer: Agreed as long as nobody is claiming widespread voter fraud without evidence. Kinda seemed to me like Trump was heavily pushing that narrative without solid evidence.

But the mere act of raising the question as to whether or not there is potential for abuse of mail in voting should not automatically paint someone as a far right Trump apologist either.

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VFighter

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#10  Edited By VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@silentchief: It's insanely sad that beyond rational reasoning and thinking that showing a valid ID is somehow "voter suppression".

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Silentchief

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#11  Edited By Silentchief
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@HoolaHoopMan said:

The GOP is moving close and closer to authoritarian ideals. They're an active threat to American democracy. The 'voter fraud' excuse is a myth, which these muppets can't even provide evidence of in court.

The republican party is a cesspool run by opportunistic grifters which is why they'll always remain the minority party. Given that they don't want to change their platform to entice voters to cross the aisle and vote for them, their only option is voter suppression and insurrectionist acts like January 6th.

And voter supression is a MYTH the left won't stfu about. Please tell me how a simple ID is voter supression?

The left wants to let anyone across the boarder allow them access to all benefits and have them voting as soon as possible.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#12 HoolaHoopMan
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@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

The GOP is moving close and closer to authoritarian ideals. They're an active threat to American democracy. The 'voter fraud' excuse is a myth, which these muppets can't even provide evidence of in court.

The republican party is a cesspool run by opportunistic grifters which is why they'll always remain the minority party. Given that they don't want to change their platform to entice voters to cross the aisle and vote for them, their only option is voter suppression and insurrectionist acts like January 6th.

And voter supression is a MYTH the left won't stfu about. Please tell me how a simple ID is voter supression?

Heritage opinion piece. Am I supposed to wipe my ass with this?

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Silentchief

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#13  Edited By Silentchief
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@zaryia: Hopefully congress acts fast on election reform. This is insane. Do the Republican posters here feel this kind of cheating is required? Would you rather your politicians just try to win mopre over the people compared to reducing the vote of the other side?

I think a valid form of ID is a reasonable law that should be passed and all voters should be able to provide it.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#14 HoolaHoopMan
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@silentchief said:

Please tell me how a simple ID is voter supression?

Simple.

In person voter fraud in virtually non-existent, which is exactly what voter IDs are allegedly supposed to be combating. They're trying to 'fix' a problem that doesn't exist. In order to justify a solution you first need to establish a problem.

Next, a large percentage of the population and minority groups don't have one. An ID isn't mandatory in the US. Thus there is an argument it is akin to a poll tax, not only in that it requires money up front to participate in our elections, but time to get one and renew every so often. It is a barrier to voting for some. There is no arguing this.

So again, what benefit is an ID requirement when it won't do anything to combat voter fraud and creates another barrier to voter eligibility? This is why they are often struck down in court when Republicans can't answer or provide solid evidence of need.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#15 HoolaHoopMan
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@silentchief said:

@zaryia: Hopefully congress acts fast on election reform. This is insane. Do the Republican posters here feel this kind of cheating is required? Would you rather your politicians just try to win mopre over the people compared to reducing the vote of the other side?

I think a valid form of ID is a reasonable law that should be passed and all voters should be able to provide it.

There is much more in these bills than ID requirements. The article gives many examples which everyone else seems to be glossing over completely.

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#16  Edited By Silentchief
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@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:

Please tell me how a simple ID is voter supression?

Simple.

In person voter fraud in virtually non-existent, which is exactly what voter IDs are allegedly supposed to be combating. They're trying to 'fix' a problem that doesn't exist. In order to justify a solution you first need to establish a problem.

Next, a large percentage of the population and minority groups don't have one. An ID isn't mandatory in the US. Thus there is an argument it is akin to a poll tax, not only in that it requires money up front to participate in our elections, but time to get one and renew every so often. It is a barrier to voting for some. There is no arguing this.

So again, what benefit is an ID requirement when it won't do anything to combat voter fraud and creates another barrier to voter eligibility? This is why they are often struck down in court when Republicans can't answer or provide solid evidence of need.

Lol it's non existent because many states have given you no way to prove it. If no ID is required to verify you're a citizen how would you possibly prove voter fraud? Many states have gone out of their way to make it impossible to prove.

Also it doesn't matter if a large portion of the population doesn't have an ID. Its already required for just about every thing else we do in the US from driving, having a job, owning a gun to even registering your kids for school so why shouldn't it be required to vote? I'm not saying only minorities should be required to have ID's I'm saying EVERYONE should have them. That is not voter supression. You need a valid form of ID to be a productive member of society anyways you should have one to vote as well.

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Silentchief

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#17 Silentchief
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@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:

@zaryia: Hopefully congress acts fast on election reform. This is insane. Do the Republican posters here feel this kind of cheating is required? Would you rather your politicians just try to win mopre over the people compared to reducing the vote of the other side?

I think a valid form of ID is a reasonable law that should be passed and all voters should be able to provide it.

There is much more in these bills than ID requirements. The article gives many examples which everyone else seems to be glossing over completely.

Well I'm starting with the one that is completely reasonable and we can't even agree on that.

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Willy105

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#18  Edited By Willy105
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@silentchief said:

Its already required for just about every thing else we do in the US from driving, having a job, owning a gun to even registering your kids for school

Not everyone in the US lives somewhere where you need to drive (such as a city, where a massive chunk of the country lives). Also not needed for jobs, and a lot of people don't have any desire to own a weapon. And of course, not everyone has children.

So you already disenfranchised a ton of people for no reason. Requiring someone to have that kind of ID is just a tamer version of requiring someone to own land to vote.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#19 HoolaHoopMan
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@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:

Please tell me how a simple ID is voter supression?

Simple.

In person voter fraud in virtually non-existent, which is exactly what voter IDs are allegedly supposed to be combating. They're trying to 'fix' a problem that doesn't exist. In order to justify a solution you first need to establish a problem.

Next, a large percentage of the population and minority groups don't have one. An ID isn't mandatory in the US. Thus there is an argument it is akin to a poll tax, not only in that it requires money up front to participate in our elections, but time to get one and renew every so often. It is a barrier to voting for some. There is no arguing this.

So again, what benefit is an ID requirement when it won't do anything to combat voter fraud and creates another barrier to voter eligibility? This is why they are often struck down in court when Republicans can't answer or provide solid evidence of need.

Lol it's non existent because many states have given you no way to prove it.

Wrong again.

People do audits and study past elections for integrity issues. The data speaks for itself. If we saw mass issues concerning in voter impersonation, something an ID would mitigate, I'm sure that ID laws would good to have. Hell, I would certainly support them if that were the case.

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Silentchief

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#20  Edited By Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 6903 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:

Please tell me how a simple ID is voter supression?

Simple.

In person voter fraud in virtually non-existent, which is exactly what voter IDs are allegedly supposed to be combating. They're trying to 'fix' a problem that doesn't exist. In order to justify a solution you first need to establish a problem.

Next, a large percentage of the population and minority groups don't have one. An ID isn't mandatory in the US. Thus there is an argument it is akin to a poll tax, not only in that it requires money up front to participate in our elections, but time to get one and renew every so often. It is a barrier to voting for some. There is no arguing this.

So again, what benefit is an ID requirement when it won't do anything to combat voter fraud and creates another barrier to voter eligibility? This is why they are often struck down in court when Republicans can't answer or provide solid evidence of need.

Lol it's non existent because many states have given you no way to prove it.

Wrong again.

People do audits and study past elections for integrity issues. The data speaks for itself. If we saw mass issues concerning in voter impersonation, something an ID would mitigate, I'm sure that ID laws would good to have. Hell, I would certainly support them if that were the case.

Voting laws have become less strict in certain states. So explain to me how less restrictions would help these audits? California as of 2016 requires no ID at all. So why change it now? How do you trust audits of nearly 150 million people with very little to track them.

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Silentchief

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#21 Silentchief
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@Willy105 said:
@silentchief said:

Its already required for just about every thing else we do in the US from driving, having a job, owning a gun to even registering your kids for school

Not everyone in the US lives somewhere where you need to drive (such as a city, where a massive chunk of the country lives). Also not needed for jobs, and a lot of people don't have any desire to own a weapon. And of course, not everyone has children.

So you already disenfranchised a ton of people for no reason. Requiring someone to have that kind of ID is just a tamer version of requiring someone to own land to vote.

I've never had a job that didn't require some form of ID. Again my point stands any productive member of society needs an ID and it's easy to get.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#22 HoolaHoopMan
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@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

Wrong again.

People do audits and study past elections for integrity issues. The data speaks for itself. If we saw mass issues concerning in voter impersonation, something an ID would mitigate, I'm sure that ID laws would good to have. Hell, I would certainly support them if that were the case.

Voting laws have become less strict in certain states. So explain to me how less restrictions would help these audits?

An irrelevant comment which doesn't address the question at hand. If you wish to prove that IDs are necessary to prevent in person voter fraud, you need to establish that impersonation is a big enough problem to warrant it.

Rampant speculation is simply an attempt to divert responsibility of proof.

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Silentchief

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#23  Edited By Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 6903 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

Wrong again.

People do audits and study past elections for integrity issues. The data speaks for itself. If we saw mass issues concerning in voter impersonation, something an ID would mitigate, I'm sure that ID laws would good to have. Hell, I would certainly support them if that were the case.

Voting laws have become less strict in certain states. So explain to me how less restrictions would help these audits?

An irrelevant comment which doesn't address the question at hand. If you wish to prove that IDs are necessary to prevent in person voter fraud, you need to establish that impersonation is a big enough problem to warrant it.

Rampant speculation is simply an attempt to divert responsibility of proof.

It's not irrelevant because they have taken the ability away to prove it. How would you prove it explain it to me? If I can show up somewhere with no identification to vote how do you prove that person is who they are and how would you prove there was fraud through an audit? An ID is a simple thing that's already required for most things so why eliminate it for voting? You even need it to buy alcohol for christ sake.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#24  Edited By HoolaHoopMan
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@silentchief: You don't seem to understand a simple concept. If you're making a claim it's a problem, you're on the hook for providing evidence. Not me.

Go a head and show us macro data on in person voter fraud.

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#25  Edited By Silentchief
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@HoolaHoopMan said:

@silentchief: You don't seem to understand a simple concept. If you're making a claim it's a problem, you're on the hook for providing evidence. Not me.

Go a head and show us macro data on in person voter fraud.

Oh I do and your side wants to eliminate any way to prove it. Why is that?

In person voter fraud does happen that is a fact do you deny that? If it happens in an extremely rare instance then how much would it need to happen to justify an ID for you?

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HoolaHoopMan

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#26 HoolaHoopMan
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@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

@silentchief: You don't seem to understand a simple concept. If you're making a claim it's a problem, you're on the hook for providing evidence. Not me.

Go a head and show us macro data on in person voter fraud.

Oh I do and your side wants to eliminate any way to prove it. Why is that?

In person voter fraud does happen that is a fact do you deny that? If it happens in an extremely rare instance then how much would it need to happen to justify an ID for you?

Go a head and show us your data then.

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#27 Silentchief
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@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

@silentchief: You don't seem to understand a simple concept. If you're making a claim it's a problem, you're on the hook for providing evidence. Not me.

Go a head and show us macro data on in person voter fraud.

Oh I do and your side wants to eliminate any way to prove it. Why is that?

In person voter fraud does happen that is a fact do you deny that? If it happens in an extremely rare instance then how much would it need to happen to justify an ID for you?

Go a head and show us your data then.

That doesn't answer the question. How much if it needs to happen before you would support voter ID?

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HoolaHoopMan

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#28  Edited By HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:

Oh I do and your side wants to eliminate any way to prove it. Why is that?

In person voter fraud does happen that is a fact do you deny that? If it happens in an extremely rare instance then how much would it need to happen to justify an ID for you?

Go a head and show us your data then.

That doesn't answer the question. How much if it needs to happen before you would support voter ID?

Ah, so you've got nothing then? Thanks for clearing that up.

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Silentchief

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#29 Silentchief
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@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:

Oh I do and your side wants to eliminate any way to prove it. Why is that?

In person voter fraud does happen that is a fact do you deny that? If it happens in an extremely rare instance then how much would it need to happen to justify an ID for you?

Go a head and show us your data then.

That doesn't answer the question. How much if it needs to happen before you would support voter ID?

Ah, so you've got nothing then? Thanks for clearing that up.

I do actually it does happen very rarely. But the studies took place in a time where ID was required so it's irrelevant. Now answer the question.

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horgen

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#30 horgen  Moderator
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@silentchief said:

I do actually it does happen very rarely. But the studies took place in a time where ID was required so it's irrelevant. Now answer the question.

Block a couple of million votes to stop one fraudulent vote?

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#31  Edited By Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 6903 Posts

@horgen said:
@silentchief said:

I do actually it does happen very rarely. But the studies took place in a time where ID was required so it's irrelevant. Now answer the question.

Block a couple of million votes to stop one fraudulent vote?

We don't know if it's one fraudulent vote anymore. More people are voting now then ever before and for some reason one side thinks the most basic form of identification is voter supression.

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#32 horgen  Moderator
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@silentchief said:

We don't know if it's one fraudulent vote anymore. More people are voting now then ever before and for some reason one side thinks the most basic gorm of identification is voter supression.

State ID or federal ID then. Free of charge and can't be fired for renewing it.

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Zaryia

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#33  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@silentchief said:

Lol more voter supression conspiracies?

Voter suppression isn't a conspiracy. It's literally a fact going by objective data and court cases. Please do not lie. This is the equivalent of calling climate change a myth.

The New Voter Suppression | Brennan Center for Justice

The Barriers That Keep Blacks and Latinos From Voting - The Atlantic

Voter Identification Laws and the Suppression of Minority Votes | The Journal of Politics: Vol 79, No 2 (uchicago.edu)

Stacking the deck: How the GOP works to suppress minority voting | Berkeley News

Voting Rights Litigation 2020 | Brennan Center for Justice

If studies are not good enough for you - we even have GOP on tape/quotes or leaked studies admitting it's real and they need it.

Florida GOP Leaders Admit Voter Suppression Was Motive Behind Voter Laws | Kapor Center

Top Trump adviser: Republicans have 'always' relied on voter suppression | US politics | The Guardian

Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Stephanie Hofeller Shares Redistricting Files From Thomas Hofeller's Hard Drives : NPR

You might incorrectly think it's a conspiracy, but your party leaders/strategists sure as shit doesn't.

This whole "is it real or not" is factually a losing debate for you.

@vfighter said:

You mean make voting safer/fraud free,

1. How much voter fraud was there in 2020 and 2016? Give a percent. Also was it more than usual? The data shows it is safe, and fraud is very very low. The solutions to this tiny % would be more problematic.

2. How does banning Sunday voting help this? How does reducing mail in voting help this? Do those 2 things lead to increased fraud? If so, by how much?

3. Why do these "safety" measures always target the way the Democrats vote on in the prior election even with less than .01% fraud rates? Or Democrat voters/areas? Specifically.

So the question is whether you are brainwashed or just intentionally spreading their lie.

@vfighter said:

It's ok, you get a lot wrong.

Gas lighting shit post. Literally the opposite happens whenever we "debate", and I can link "The List" again if you want.

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Zaryia

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#35  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

The GOP is moving close and closer to authoritarian ideals. They're an active threat to American democracy. The 'voter fraud' excuse is a myth, which these muppets can't even provide evidence of in court.

The republican party is a cesspool run by opportunistic grifters which is why they'll always remain the minority party. Given that they don't want to change their platform to entice voters to cross the aisle and vote for them, their only option is voter suppression and insurrectionist acts like January 6th.

And voter supression is a MYTH the left won't stfu about. Please tell me how a simple ID is voter supression?

Heritage opinion piece. Am I supposed to wipe my ass with this?

I can't believe he used that. Not only is HF bad enough but its an oped from them.

Heritage Foundation - Media Bias Fact Check

Their climate change articles used to be a real hoot.

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@silentchief said:

@zaryia: Hopefully congress acts fast on election reform. This is insane. Do the Republican posters here feel this kind of cheating is required? Would you rather your politicians just try to win mopre over the people compared to reducing the vote of the other side?

I think a valid form of ID is a reasonable law that should be passed and all voters should be able to provide it.

There is much more in these bills than ID requirements. The article gives many examples which everyone else seems to be glossing over completely.

Yeah they want to severely cut mail in voting and ban early voting on Sundays (we know why).

I'm guessing they will ignore that.

@silentchief said:
@horgen said:
@silentchief said:

I do actually it does happen very rarely. But the studies took place in a time where ID was required so it's irrelevant. Now answer the question.

Block a couple of million votes to stop one fraudulent vote?

We don't know if it's one fraudulent vote anymore.

What % is it.

Why are they against Sunday voting.

Georgia Republicans seek to end Sunday early voting, a popular election method for Black voters

Georgia GOP seeks to end Sunday voting, popular day with Black voters (businessinsider.com)

I need to see data on how much voter fraud this specific measure would reduce. Otherwise I'm going to continue to think the obvious about this Sunday thing. The same thing you're thinking but won't say.

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#36  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@silentchief

Someone tell Britannica a far right alt on a random website thinks they are posting fiction, myths, and pseudoscience.

Voter suppression

election strategy

Voter suppression, in U.S. history and politics, any legal or extralegal measure or strategy whose purpose or practical effect is to reduce voting, or registering to vote, by members of a targeted racial group, political party, or religious community. The overwhelming majority of victims of voter suppression in the United States have been African Americans.

voter suppression | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica

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#37  Edited By mrbojangles25
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I would only support the use of an ID for voting if it was some sort of automatic distribution, like "Hey no need to sign up, your ID is in the mail".

If you make it something that people actually have to sign up for, spend money and time on, then I would consider it voter suppression.

Voting shouldn't be an inconvenience. You can romanticize it and say "Oh people died for your right to vote, the least you can do is spend an hour at the DMV rabble rabble rabble..." but the truth is enough people wouldn't follow through with the ID and if you take advantage of that you are suppressing votes in my opinion, or at the very least playing dirty.

The goal of the government should be to get as many eligible people voting as possible, and to make being eligible as easy as possible. I was super excited with the turn out this last election and hope it only increases in future elections.

And while voter fraud is not a myth, it occurs in such small amounts it might as well be one. As someone said before, bills like this create solutions to problems that don't exist.

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#38  Edited By Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 6903 Posts

@zaryia said:

@silentchief

Someone tell Britannica a far right alt on a random website thinks they are posting fiction, myths, and pseudoscience.

Voter suppression

election strategy

Voter suppression, in U.S. history and politics, any legal or extralegal measure or strategy whose purpose or practical effect is to reduce voting, or registering to vote, by members of a targeted racial group, political party, or religious community. The overwhelming majority of victims of voter suppression in the United States have been African Americans.

voter suppression | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica

It's a myth there currently hasn't been any meaningful means of voter suppression The data proves it. When African Americans are voting in Record numbers you're going to have to provide data it's actually suppressing votes Currently!

One of those studies, released by the National Bureau of Economic Research in 2019, examined 10 years’ worth of turnout data from across the country and concluded that voter ID laws have “no negative effect on registration or turnout overall or for any specific group defined by race, gender, age, or party affiliation

Like most leftist you live in the past and create boogeyman that haven't been major issues in decades. Op-ed pieces from the far left sources such as the NYT don't change hard data and facts. You lost this debate.

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#39 deactivated-628e6669daebe
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More attempts of voter suppression from the party that just attempted to subvert the popular vote? That's impossible!

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#40 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44583 Posts

Not surprising, they have been doing it for years.

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#41  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@silentchief said:

The data proves it.

That's an opinion piece. It literally says "Opinion". Meanwhile I'm direct linking Britannica and Peer Reviewed Papers stating you are lying when calling voter suppression a conspiracy theory.

@silentchief said:

Op-ed pieces from the far left sources such as the NYT

Huh? NYT OP-ED? What kind of low quality gas lighting is this, everyone who enters this thread can see I didn't post in this quote. Here was my link:

voter suppression | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica

Definitions

History

Facts

https://www.britannica.com/topic/voter-suppression

Measure or strategy whose purpose or practical effect is to reduce voting, or registering to vote, by members of a targeted racial group, political party, or religious community. The overwhelming majority of victims of voter suppression in the United States have been African Americans.

Voter suppression has been practiced in the United States since at least the era of Reconstruction (1865–77), when African Americans in the states of the former Confederacy were briefly able to exercise their newly won rights to vote; to run for local, state, and federal offices; and to serve on juries. The Fourteenth (1868) and Fifteenth (1870) amendments to the U.S. Constitution, along with a series of laws passed by a Republican-dominated Congress between 1866 and 1875, guaranteed U.S. citizenship and equal civil and legal rights to African Americans; specifically prohibited restricting or denying the right to vote on the basis of race; criminalized the terrorist activities of white supremacist organizations such as the Ku Klux Klan; and authorized the use of federal troops to protect polling places and to put down white supremacist violence. Relying on federal protection, African American voters elected hundreds of Black state representatives and 16 Black U.S. representatives and senators. By 1870 nearly all of the former Confederate states were controlled by the Republican Party.

Although members of both major political parties in the United States have participated in voter suppression efforts (notably Southern Democrats from the Reconstruction era to the mid-20th century), most contemporary instances of voter suppression have taken place in Republican-controlled states. The usual justification offered for such measures is that they help to ensure the integrity of elections by preventing individual voter fraud, which Republicans typically claim is a serious problem. As Democratic critics have pointed out, however, individual voter fraud in the United States is nearly nonexistent. The real purpose of restrictive voting laws, they insist, is to enable Republicans to win office or to stay in power in jurisdictions where less than a majority of likely voters supports their candidate or agenda.

Another political strategy that is sometimes treated as a form of voter suppression is racial or partisan gerrymandering (the drawing of electoral districts by state legislatures in such a way as to dilute the voting power of members of a certain racial group or political party), though it does not specifically prevent any person from voting or registering to vote. By “packing” large numbers of a racial group or political party into a few districts or by “cracking” (dispersing) them among several districts, such gerrymanders can ensure that the targeted group or party will be permanently underrepresented in a state legislature or in Congress relative to their absolute numbers in the state—which is also the goal of voter suppression. Racial gerrymandering is prohibited by Section 2 of the VRA. (Interestingly, federal law does permit the creation of “majority-minority” districts as a means of combating racial gerrymandering by cracking.) In 2019 the Supreme Court ruled, in Rucho v. Common Cause, that partisan gerrymandering is a “political question” that is beyond the power of the federal courts to address.

Quote the portion that is false in the above entry or concede.

You said it was a conspiracy theory. You goofed.

@silentchief said:
You lost this debate.

You literally lost this debate going by a 100% fact based source. Voter suppression is not a conspiracy theory. It is objectively real according to multiple studies and dictionary/encyclopedia sources. And verified court rulings.

"Now, Republicans have zeroed in on mail-in voting for new restrictions and rollbacks, in some cases targeting laws the GOP had championed years before the pandemic."

That's because they lost. They are attempting voter suppression. You're avoiding the stuff I quoted in my OP because you can't defend it.

P.S. The GOP still disagrees with you. Your own party lol. Whether it works or not, they are doing it to have better election chances.

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#42  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@lamprey263 said:

Not surprising, they have been doing it for years.

Yup. They even admit to it

Florida GOP Leaders Admit Voter Suppression Was Motive Behind Voter Laws | Kapor Center

Top Trump adviser: Republicans have 'always' relied on voter suppression | US politics | The Guardian

Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Stephanie Hofeller Shares Redistricting Files From Thomas Hofeller's Hard Drives : NPR

@silentchief You're going to have to explain why they admit to it and make personal studies showing how to do it better.

Also what's with the Sunday thing man?

Georgia Republicans seek to end Sunday early voting, a popular election method for Black voters

Georgia GOP seeks to end Sunday voting, popular day with Black voters (businessinsider.com)

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#43  Edited By Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 6903 Posts

@zaryia: It is currently a conspiracy theory it does not happen in the US in any meaningful way as multiple pier reviewed studies showed. You posting a link of it happening in the 1870's thus further proves my point. You lost!

One of those studies, released by the National Bureau of Economic Research in 2019, examined 10 years’ worth of turnout data from across the country and concluded that voter ID laws have “no negative effect on registration or turnout overall or for any specific group defined by race, gender, age, or party affiliation.”

Do you have any studies from within the last decade that refutes this? If not I'll take it as your concessions of defeat.

@zaryia:You're going to have to explain why they admit to it and make personal studies showing how to do it better.

Which one? The anonymous GOP source or the fired Trump aid? Again not really reliable sources.

@zaryia: Also what's with the Sunday thing man?

Not sure . You would need to provide proof that it's actually voter supression though and would some how disproportionately effect Democrats. As expected your article doesn't provide any meaningful study that it does.

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#44  Edited By Zaryia
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@silentchief said:

any meaningful way

That's called a goal post move. I spotted you starting adding this once I proved it was real, intentional, and still attempted in 2021.

The debate was whether it was a conspiracy theory or not, and actually something the GOP tries to do to win. AKA is it real, current, and intentional. As facts and peer reviewed studies show yes to all, and it does have effects. These effects exact % is what you're debating for 1 of the VS methods, I never even mentioned such a thing.

You lost that debate. It's real, and they still try it.

@silentchief said:

You posting a link of it happening in the 1870's

Reading is key,

voter suppression | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica

Most contemporary instances of voter suppression have taken place in Republican-controlled states. The usual justification offered for such measures is that they help to ensure the integrity of elections by preventing individual voter fraud, which Republicans typically claim is a serious problem. As Democratic critics have pointed out, however, individual voter fraud in the United States is nearly nonexistent. The real purpose of restrictive voting laws, they insist, is to enable Republicans to win office or to stay in power in jurisdictions where less than a majority of likely voters supports their candidate or agenda.

Another political strategy that is sometimes treated as a form of voter suppression is racial or partisan gerrymandering (the drawing of electoral districts by state legislatures in such a way as to dilute the voting power of members of a certain racial group or political party), though it does not specifically prevent any person from voting or registering to vote. By “packing” large numbers of a racial group or political party into a few districts or by “cracking” (dispersing) them among several districts, such gerrymanders can ensure that the targeted group or party will be permanently underrepresented in a state legislature or in Congress relative to their absolute numbers in the state—which is also the goal of voter suppression. Racial gerrymandering is prohibited by Section 2 of the VRA. (Interestingly, federal law does permit the creation of “majority-minority” districts as a means of combating racial gerrymandering by cracking.) In 2019 the Supreme Court ruled, in Rucho v. Common Cause, that partisan gerrymandering is a “political question” that is beyond the power of the federal courts to address.

@silentchief said:

One of those studies, released by the National Bureau of Economic Research in 2019, examined 10 years’ worth of turnout data from across the country and concluded that voter ID laws have “no negative effect on registration or turnout overall or for any specific group defined by race, gender, age, or party affiliation.”

Do you have any studies from within the last decade that refutes this? If not I'll take it as your concessions of defeat.

Why would I refute that, I never made an opposing claim to it.

This is a straw-man. You're kinda' bad at this.

@silentchief said:

@zaryia:You're going to have to explain why they admit to it and make personal studies showing how to do it better.

Which one? The anonymous GOP source or the fired Trump aid? Again not really reliable sources.

GOP RACIAL GERRYMANDERING MASTERMIND PARTICIPATED IN REDISTRICTING IN MORE STATES THAN PREVIOUSLY KNOWN, FILES REVEAL

GOP Racial Gerrymandering Mastermind Participated in Redistricting in More States Than Previously Known, Files Reveal (theintercept.com)

Easy.

@silentchief said:

Not sure . You would need to provide proof that it's actually voter supression though and would some how disproportionately effect Democrats.

30% of the Georgia electorate are comprised of Black voters, but in 2020 that figure jumped to 36.7% on Sundays, the very day that Republicans seek to eliminate as part of early voting.

It's in the link.

Also,

"restrict ballot drop boxes to early voting sites and limit their usage to voting hours, and narrow the window for requesting an absentee ballot, among other changes."

Why cheat man? Just get less shitty politics.

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#45  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

“Voter Suppression”: Iowa auditors react to election bill that decreases early, absentee voting periods

"Voter Suppression": Iowa auditors react to election bill that decreases early, absentee voting periods (kwwl.com)

This is due to the 2020 win. They are doing it to increase chances at winning elections for their party. If you think otherwise, you're probably baiting.

  • Shorten Iowa’s early voting period from 29 days to 18.
  • Bars voters from dropping off an absentee ballot for anyone who isn't an immediate family member.
  • Limit the number of dropbox to one per county at the county auditor’s office.
  • Prevent auditors from sending out absentee ballots before mid-October.
  • Prohibit auditors from sending out absentee ballot request forms if a voter does not request one.
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#46 Serraph105
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"These are good because Republicans lost and Republicans need to win."

~Republicans probably, because why put the mask back on now?

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#47  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@Serraph105 said:

"These are good because Republicans lost and Republicans need to win."

~Republicans probably, because why put the mask back on now?

I wonder about those conservative who think this isn't voter suppression and defend it.

Are they intentionally lying or actually brain washed? We have too many studies showing how fraud is almost non existent. Yet you get laundry list of restrictive bills that mostly target Democrat voters directly after major GOP losses. Quoting actual GOP members saying they use it and why they use it isn't even enough.

The best they have is "well it doesn't always work", even from the only right winger on this site attempting to defend voter supression. Great, I feel way better now.

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#48  Edited By Silentchief
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@zaryia: That's called a goal post move

I haven't moved any goal post. You created a thread on this and said they wouldn't win without it. My recent study shows that is in fact false! You lost and your attempt to spin the argument into the fact that it once was an issue doesn't change that.

@zaryia: 30% of the Georgia electorate are comprised of Black voters, but in 2020 that figure jumped to 36.7% on Sundays, the very day that Republicans seek to eliminate as part of early voting.

That's not a study. Do you have anything that compares it to how many whites voted on slthe same day? This is why it's a conspiracy theory. There is no proof it will negativity effect voters of color disproportionately to white voters. Also it wouldn't really matter if the law applied to everyone.

@zaryia: Why would I refute that, I never made an opposing claim to it.

This is a straw-man. You're kinda' bad at this.

So you can't refute my pier reviewed study? Could it be that laws are created to stop voter fraud? Do we call that voter supression considering all studies show it has no effect? Take your ball and go home.

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#49  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@silentchief said:

@zaryia: That's called a goal post move

I haven't moved any goal post. You created a thread on this and said they wouldn't win without it. My recent study shows that is in fact false! You lost and your attempt to spin the argument into the fact that it once was an issue doesn't change that.

I actually never said that. But they sure say it:

“The things they had in there were crazy. They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again,”

“I don’t want everybody to vote,” . “As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

I also intentionally left out Voter ID from my OP, since I'm aware of the 2 conflicting studies on it. You moved the goal post away from the latest voter suppression attempt of the GOP, and the fact that it's real and they do it. First you said it's a conspiracy theory, now you're saying one of it's methods isn't very successful. I'm glad that they suck at one of the methods, but that isn't what we were discussing. Multiple studies show voter suppression works btw, you're cherry picking a few methods the GOP have failed at. That doesn't meant they don't try or are never successful. This thread is about their latest attempt.

@silentchief said:

This is why it's a conspiracy theory.

Voter Suppression is not a conspiracy theory. It is a fact. And the GOP still use it.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/voter-suppression (This link has you destroyed.)

The New Voter Suppression | Brennan Center for Justice

The Barriers That Keep Blacks and Latinos From Voting - The Atlantic

Voter Identification Laws and the Suppression of Minority Votes | The Journal of Politics: Vol 79, No 2 (uchicago.edu)

Stacking the deck: How the GOP works to suppress minority voting | Berkeley News

Voting Rights Litigation 2020 | Brennan Center for Justice

@silentchief said:

all studies show it has no effect? Take your ball and go home.

OOF....Why are you lying,

econweb.umd.edu/~kaplan/Gerrymandering-Full.pdf

VIII. Conclusion In this paper, we have shown that parties sometimes act in their own political interest by reshaping districts to increase their party’s representation in Congress when they have the power to do so. The estimated size of the effects are large. In the past two decades, Republican control over redistricting has led to an increase of 8.2 percentage points in the average of a state delegation’s Republican seat share in the subsequent three elections. We do not, however, find a similar effect of Democratic control except for a small number of large, Democratic states.

Check Mate.

Voter Identification Laws and the Suppression of Minority Votes | The Journal of Politics: Vol 79, No 2 (uchicago.edu)

The proliferation of increasingly strict voter identification laws around the country has raised concerns about voter suppression. Although there are many reasons to suspect that these laws could harm groups like racial minorities and the poor, existing studies have been limited, with most occurring before states enacted strict identification requirements, and they have uncovered few effects. By using validated voting data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study for several recent elections, we are able to offer a more definitive test. The analysis shows that strict identification laws have a differentially negative impact on the turnout of racial and ethnic minorities in primaries and general elections. We also find that voter ID laws skew democracy toward those on the political right.

Check Mate. Again.

Do you admit its real, it has real effects, and the GOP still tries to do it? Or are you saying studies and facts are wrong?

(You're kind of a punching bag lol).

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#50  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@silentchief said:Could it be that laws are created to stop voter fraud? Do we call that voter supression considering all studies show it has no effect? Take your ball and go home.

Nah. These are created to try to reduce Democrat chances. Some successful some not so much. Voter fraud is infinitesimal and they know it.

“Voter Suppression”: Iowa auditors react to election bill that decreases early, absentee voting periods

"Voter Suppression": Iowa auditors react to election bill that decreases early, absentee voting periods (kwwl.com)

This is due to the 2020 win. They are doing it to increase chances at winning elections for their party. If you think otherwise, you're probably baiting.

  • Shorten Iowa’s early voting period from 29 days to 18.
  • Bars voters from dropping off an absentee ballot for anyone who isn't an immediate family member.
  • Limit the number of dropbox to one per county at the county auditor’s office.
  • Prevent auditors from sending out absentee ballots before mid-October.
  • Prohibit auditors from sending out absentee ballot request forms if a voter does not request one.

I mean you know this. Republican strategists since the 80's have known reducing turnout, especially in Dem areas, helps them. We've had Trump himself state this in 2020. You're faking.