Gavin McInnes denied entry into Australia, failing the character test

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nintendoboy16

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#1 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41558 Posts

ABC (Australia)

Right-wing provocateur and founder of the Proud Boys group Gavin McInnes has had his visa application blocked by the Home Affairs Department, failing the character test to enter Australia.

Critics of Mr McInnes were urging the department and Immigration Minister David Coleman to ban him from travelling to Australia for a speaking tour next year, concerned about his extreme views and promotion of violence.

The ABC understands Mr McInnes was notified a few weeks ago that the department was likely to block his visa application because he was judged to be of bad character, and the formal window for him to appeal closed today.

Mr McInnes cut ties with the Proud Boys group earlier this month. The group, which Mr McInnes has previously labelled a "gang", describes itself as a men's organisation, committed to upholding "Western chauvinist values".

The FBI designated them as an extremist organisation.

Yesterday, a petition of 81,000 signatures was delivered to Federal Parliament calling on the Government to block Mr McInnes from entering the country.

Lawyer Nyadol Nyuon, who founded the petition, said the Government's decision was a win for free speech.

"To have allowed him to come still I think would have made it seem as if the Government had given tacit approval at the very least to these calls for violence against people you don't agree with as a legitimate form of free speech," she said.

"It's not and it should never be."

Ms Nyuon said Mr McInnes could not possibly have met the character test for entry to Australia.

"I'm happy that women, non-whites, certain members of the LGBTI communities don't have to live in an atmosphere of fear after these individuals are allowed to come in, or from the fear of what that might suggest to them," she said.

Mr McInnes was due to tour the country early next year, alongside UK far-right activist Tommy Robinson.

The ABC understands no visa application has been received for Mr Robinson.

Their "The Deplorables" tour of Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth and the Gold Coast had already been delayed a number of months.

The Proud Boys list their values as including being against political correctness, racial guilt and racism, while promoting free speech and gun rights.

But they have been widely criticised as promoting violence against people who do not share their views.

In a statement, a spokeswoman for the Department of Home Affairs said all non-citizens entering Australia had to meet character requirements before a visa would be granted.

"For visitors who may hold controversial views, any risk they may pose will be balanced against Australia's well-established freedom of speech and freedom of beliefs, amongst other relevant considerations," she said.

Dvir Abramovich, chairman of Australia's leading civil rights organisation, the Anti-Defamation Commission, issued a statement praising the Government's decision to reject Mr McInnes's application.

"I have no doubt that his visit would have cultivated a disruptive atmosphere of incitement as well as attracting hardcore extremists, and this explosive combination could have resulted in rioting and street fights," Dr Abramovich said.

"At a time when anti-Semitism and far-right activism in our nation are on the increase, we should not be providing such individuals with an opportunity to promote their divisive and dangerous agenda which runs counter to our core values."

I'm otherwise critical on Australia's super strict policies, but DAMN! Good call this go around.

And before I see anyone blaming the "leftists", keep in mind, Australia is right-leaning last I checked.

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rmpumper

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#2 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2145 Posts

Gavin is a typical alt-right coward playing a tough guy. He created the incel Proud Boys, was fantasizing how they are going to beat and kill the SJW/Antifa and other groups all over the internet and as soon as the idiots started committing actual violence, he pissed off out of the gang as if he had nothing to do with inciting violence in the first place.

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Damedius

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#3  Edited By Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

According to the article Australia has prevented total societal collapse, which would have happened shortly after Gavin McInnes landed.

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mrbojangles25

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#4 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58382 Posts

Good call; you can't have true free speech if people like McInnes abuse that right.

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Maroxad

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#5 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23942 Posts

I don't like these news. It doesn't set a good precedent. That guy should have the right to travel to australia, if only so people can debunk his garbage. Let him travel there, then, let the media rip him to pieces.

Regarding the "Leftists" comment. People will blame them regardless. Being a swede, I had non-swedish citizens blame leftists constantly for things done during 2006-2014... for the actions done by the right wing government *laughter*

@mrbojangles25 said:

Good call; you can't have true free speech if people like McInnes abuse that right.

I disagree, Free speech is all about giving savages like Gavin McInnes their right to their disgusting speech.

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SUD123456

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#6 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6953 Posts

@Maroxad said:

I don't like these news. It doesn't set a good precedent. That guy should have the right to travel to australia, if only so people can debunk his garbage. Let him travel there, then, let the media rip him to pieces.

Regarding the "Leftists" comment. People will blame them regardless. Being a swede, I had non-swedish citizens blame leftists constantly for things done during 2006-2014... for the actions done by the right wing government *laughter*

@mrbojangles25 said:

Good call; you can't have true free speech if people like McInnes abuse that right.

I disagree, Free speech is all about giving savages like Gavin McInnes their right to their disgusting speech.

And I disagree because no rights are absolute. That combined with the fact that he is not an Australian means that the US should keep its own garbage at home.

I am not in favor of my own country allowing similar trolls freedom of mobility in my country when we already have internally enough of these trolls. Moreover, my fellow citizens already have multiple channels to access this trolls speech and are in no way being denied access to this trolls ideas. The only impingement is around mobility of a non-citizen and whether the ideas can be expressed face to face.

All up, I assess this to be a minor and acceptable impingement that does not materially restrict my own fellow citizens access to whatever speech they want. Stepping back it is quite obvious that the objections are actually not about access to speech and ideas per se; but rather something else.

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vl4d_l3nin

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#7 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3702 Posts

Gavin did it all wrong. He tried to enter the country by legal means. It's 2018. You're supposed to smuggle yourself in, bring your wife and kids along and say you're escaping political repression. Maybe rub a little dirt in their faces for CNN's cameras. His wife and kids are POC's too..missed opportunity

@Maroxad said:

I disagree, Free speech is all about giving savages like Gavin McInnes their right to their disgusting speech.

but..but hate speech!

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Damedius

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#8 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@SUD123456 said:
@Maroxad said:

I don't like these news. It doesn't set a good precedent. That guy should have the right to travel to australia, if only so people can debunk his garbage. Let him travel there, then, let the media rip him to pieces.

Regarding the "Leftists" comment. People will blame them regardless. Being a swede, I had non-swedish citizens blame leftists constantly for things done during 2006-2014... for the actions done by the right wing government *laughter*

@mrbojangles25 said:

Good call; you can't have true free speech if people like McInnes abuse that right.

I disagree, Free speech is all about giving savages like Gavin McInnes their right to their disgusting speech.

And I disagree because no rights are absolute. That combined with the fact that he is not an Australian means that the US should keep its own garbage at home.

Canadian not American. Continue your anti-american rant.

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SOedipus

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#9 SOedipus
Member since 2006 • 14811 Posts

I can't stand Gavin, he's a douche. But I'm against the move. I'm all for freedom of speech. Let people make up their own minds after listening. It's pretty stupid how Australia let a muslim cleric into the country rant about homosexuals, apostates and shit. At least be consistent.

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horgen

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#10 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127513 Posts

@Maroxad said:

I don't like these news. It doesn't set a good precedent. That guy should have the right to travel to australia, if only so people can debunk his garbage. Let him travel there, then, let the media rip him to pieces.

Regarding the "Leftists" comment. People will blame them regardless. Being a swede, I had non-swedish citizens blame leftists constantly for things done during 2006-2014... for the actions done by the right wing government *laughter*

@mrbojangles25 said:

Good call; you can't have true free speech if people like McInnes abuse that right.

I disagree, Free speech is all about giving savages like Gavin McInnes their right to their disgusting speech.

Shouldn't Australia be allowed to decide who gets to enter their country?

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Jacanuk

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#11 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@nintendoboy16: It always amazes me how Australia, Canada and the UK fail to see that by not allowing someone entry, they are giving them a much bigger platform than if they had just let them enter and spew whatever nonsense they want.

Free Speech is not absolute but it´s a cornerstone of any democracy and by not allowing some they are sliding down a dangerous slippery slope.

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Jacanuk

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#12 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@horgen said:
@Maroxad said:

I don't like these news. It doesn't set a good precedent. That guy should have the right to travel to australia, if only so people can debunk his garbage. Let him travel there, then, let the media rip him to pieces.

Regarding the "Leftists" comment. People will blame them regardless. Being a swede, I had non-swedish citizens blame leftists constantly for things done during 2006-2014... for the actions done by the right wing government *laughter*

@mrbojangles25 said:

Good call; you can't have true free speech if people like McInnes abuse that right.

I disagree, Free speech is all about giving savages like Gavin McInnes their right to their disgusting speech.

Shouldn't Australia be allowed to decide who gets to enter their country?

Sure they can but what is striking here is the left´s hypocrisy, they are all for no borders unless they use them to for their own benefit.

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Blackhairedhero

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#13  Edited By Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

Lol look at the far left loons in this thread. Banning a political commentator because you disagree with him? That is laughable but every typical of the left.

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horgen

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#14 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127513 Posts

@Jacanuk said:

Sure they can but what is striking here is the left´s hypocrisy, they are all for no borders unless they use them to for their own benefit.

Which part of the left wants open borders? I¨'m quite sure even Obama was for enforcing some sort of border control so people couldn't get in unchecked. Though there is a difference between letting people applying for legal residence, housing them in perhaps not the best conditions, and tear gassing them right at the border.

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mrbojangles25

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#15 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58382 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@horgen said:
@Maroxad said:

I don't like these news. It doesn't set a good precedent. That guy should have the right to travel to australia, if only so people can debunk his garbage. Let him travel there, then, let the media rip him to pieces.

Regarding the "Leftists" comment. People will blame them regardless. Being a swede, I had non-swedish citizens blame leftists constantly for things done during 2006-2014... for the actions done by the right wing government *laughter*

@mrbojangles25 said:

Good call; you can't have true free speech if people like McInnes abuse that right.

I disagree, Free speech is all about giving savages like Gavin McInnes their right to their disgusting speech.

Shouldn't Australia be allowed to decide who gets to enter their country?

Sure they can but what is striking here is the left´s hypocrisy, they are all for no borders unless they use them to for their own benefit.

I get your point, but comparing people fleeing violence, poverty, and worse...

...to someone that wants to spew hate speech? Bit of a stretch calling that hypocrisy.

I would call that common sense.

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Maroxad

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#16  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23942 Posts

Free speech is absolute, and it must remain absolute.

@Jacanuk said:
@horgen said:
@Maroxad said:

I don't like these news. It doesn't set a good precedent. That guy should have the right to travel to australia, if only so people can debunk his garbage. Let him travel there, then, let the media rip him to pieces.

Regarding the "Leftists" comment. People will blame them regardless. Being a swede, I had non-swedish citizens blame leftists constantly for things done during 2006-2014... for the actions done by the right wing government *laughter*

@mrbojangles25 said:

Good call; you can't have true free speech if people like McInnes abuse that right.

I disagree, Free speech is all about giving savages like Gavin McInnes their right to their disgusting speech.

Shouldn't Australia be allowed to decide who gets to enter their country?

Sure they can but what is striking here is the left´s hypocrisy, they are all for no borders unless they use them to for their own benefit.

There is a huge difference though

One is coming there to spew hate. And build a worse future.

The others are trying to escape violence and build a better future. While actually building a better economy.

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Sevenizz

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#17  Edited By Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6462 Posts

The man is harmless. He’s a right wing pundit at best and the last time I checked, it’s fine to be a proud member of the Right.

The Left’s demonization of anyone who doesn’t agree with them and shut them up is wrong. It’s also fascism.

Bad call Australia, bad call.

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nintendoboy16

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#18 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41558 Posts

@Maroxad: @SOedipus: @blackhairedhero: @Jacanuk: Here's the problem, Gavin has outright encouraged violence on those he doesn't agree with. And hell, this is hardly the first time Australia banned politically controversial figures before, regardless of leaning.

One example being Gerry Adams of the Irish political party, Sinn Fein.

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Solaryellow

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#20 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 7034 Posts

@Jacanuk said:

@nintendoboy16: It always amazes me how Australia, Canada and the UK fail to see that by not allowing someone entry, they are giving them a much bigger platform than if they had just let them enter and spew whatever nonsense they want.

Free Speech is not absolute but it´s a cornerstone of any democracy and by not allowing some they are sliding down a dangerous slippery slope.

Australia......the country believing video games will cause anarchy.

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hrt_rulz01

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#21  Edited By hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 22389 Posts

@nintendoboy16: Not sure we're "right-leaning"... I mean our current government is but not the population in general I don't think.

Anyway, glad this guy wasn't allowed in.

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Jacanuk

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#22 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:

@Maroxad: @SOedipus: @blackhairedhero: @Jacanuk: Here's the problem, Gavin has outright encouraged violence on those he doesn't agree with. And hell, this is hardly the first time Australia banned politically controversial figures before, regardless of leaning.

One example being Gerry Adams of the Irish political party, Sinn Fein.

Sure, but has he actually committed any violence? Also the main issue here is that one side is limiting another´s rights because they feel it´s morally ok to do so, while at the same time arguing that free speech is applicable to all.

What Australia is doing is no better then what China or any other dictatorship is doing.

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LJS9502_basic

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#23 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178854 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

@Maroxad: @SOedipus: @blackhairedhero: @Jacanuk: Here's the problem, Gavin has outright encouraged violence on those he doesn't agree with. And hell, this is hardly the first time Australia banned politically controversial figures before, regardless of leaning.

One example being Gerry Adams of the Irish political party, Sinn Fein.

Sure, but has he actually committed any violence? Also the main issue here is that one side is limiting another´s rights because they feel it´s morally ok to do so, while at the same time arguing that free speech is applicable to all.

What Australia is doing is no better then what China or any other dictatorship is doing.

I find the hypocrisy in your post laughable. If entering a country is a right then why are you cowering in fear over the "invasion" from the south. You can't have it both ways.

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nintendoboy16

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#24 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41558 Posts
@Jacanuk said:

Sure, but has he actually committed any violence? Also the main issue here is that one side is limiting another´s rights because they feel it´s morally ok to do so, while at the same time arguing that free speech is applicable to all.

What Australia is doing is no better then what China or any other dictatorship is doing.

YES! And he's boasted about beating someone up with a black eye on air at one time.

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Jacanuk

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#25 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:
@Jacanuk said:

Sure, but has he actually committed any violence? Also the main issue here is that one side is limiting another´s rights because they feel it´s morally ok to do so, while at the same time arguing that free speech is applicable to all.

What Australia is doing is no better then what China or any other dictatorship is doing.

YES! And he's boasted about beating someone up with a black eye on air at one time.

Boasting is one thing, was he ever convicted? if not then again you cannot demand free speech without also accepting it being used for others.

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Damedius

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#26 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

@Maroxad: @SOedipus: @blackhairedhero: @Jacanuk: Here's the problem, Gavin has outright encouraged violence on those he doesn't agree with. And hell, this is hardly the first time Australia banned politically controversial figures before, regardless of leaning.

One example being Gerry Adams of the Irish political party, Sinn Fein.

Sure, but has he actually committed any violence? Also the main issue here is that one side is limiting another´s rights because they feel it´s morally ok to do so, while at the same time arguing that free speech is applicable to all.

What Australia is doing is no better then what China or any other dictatorship is doing.

I believe there was possibly some violence involving a dildo, but you probably don't want to know any more....

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superbuuman

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#27 superbuuman
Member since 2010 • 6400 Posts

So when will Australia start denying entry & deporting Muslim hate preachers?...

@hrt_rulz01 said:

@nintendoboy16: Not sure we're "right-leaning"... I mean our current government is but not the population in general I don't think.

Anyway, glad this guy wasn't allowed in.

Federal level maybe...State & Local definitely nope...Canberra has same sex pedestrian lights ..lol...don't think that's something propose by right leaning govt.

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Planeforger

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#28 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 19583 Posts

This guy (whoever he is) was trying to visit Australia to promote his pro-white male, anti-everyone else values.

Free speech is one thing (and most of the world takes that a lot less seriously than the US)...but if he was promoting violence against women and different races, that's hate speech. If he's promoting hate speech, he shouldn't be allowed in - just like we wouldn't let in religious extremists, the KKK, or other people trying to promote views that are harmful to our society.

For context, this is happening at a time when female representation in parliament is in the spotlight, the government is trying to crack down on domestic violence, and society is divided on fear-mongering against "African gangs." We don't need idiots coming in, lighting fuses for those powder kegs.

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Blackhairedhero

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#29 Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: You don't see the difference between one man visiting a country and thousands trying to stay there forever? Really?

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LJS9502_basic

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#30 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178854 Posts

@blackhairedhero said:

@LJS9502_basic: You don't see the difference between one man visiting a country and thousands trying to stay there forever? Really?

Reading comprehension is not your thing.......

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Blackhairedhero

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#31 Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: I'm pretty sure you compared "banning Gavin Mccinnes " to thousands of immigrants illegally crossing the boarder. If you want a country to allow someone to visit you should want people to be able to cross the boarder at will . Was that not your point?

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LJS9502_basic

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#32 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178854 Posts

@blackhairedhero said:

@LJS9502_basic: I'm pretty sure you compared "banning Gavin Mccinnes " to thousands of immigrants illegally crossing the boarder. If you want a country to allow someone to visit you should want people to be able to cross the boarder at will . Was that not your point?

Once again you have reading comprehension issues since that's twice now you demonstrated you didn't understand the post. Are you going for the third strike yet?

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Baconstrip78

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#33  Edited By Baconstrip78
Member since 2013 • 1854 Posts

On one hand, he’s not a citizen so you’re not really violating his rights.

But alt-right in person is very different than alt-right on the internet. Look at those dufuses in Charlottesville, Lot of ill-fitting khaki pants and polos, $8 haircuts, and doughy bodies holding foam shields that they made in their spare time. No women to be seen amongst their ranks.

Really makes it hard to recruit to the movement when your members look like the grownup version of the kids that were picked on in school.

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dreman999

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#34 dreman999
Member since 2004 • 11514 Posts

@SUD123456: we for one .....he is Canadian. Raise.

Two....he is English born.

Three....he is Scottish decent.

And four....all those things less then 50 years would have racist see him no better then the people he makes hate speeches about.

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Blackhairedhero

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#35  Edited By Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: well then what did you mean by " invasion from the south"?

This is the shit you always do though. You couldn't even answer a simple question in the last thread either.

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Blackhairedhero

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#36  Edited By Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

@Baconstrip78: The people on the left that showed up to protest against them didn't look any better.

Most looked like gender queer rejects are efiminate men who were trying to get their fat pink haired girlfriend to bang them. And the girls on the left that were at the rally were either over 250 pound or looked like homeless drug addicts.

I'd say the whole rally was a shitshow.

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LJS9502_basic

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#37  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178854 Posts

@blackhairedhero said:

@LJS9502_basic: well then what did you mean by " invasion from the south"?

This is the shit you always do though. You couldn't even answer a simple question in the last thread either.

Maybe pay attention to the original post that was elicited the response. DUH.

And strike three. You're out.

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Blackhairedhero

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#38 Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: I read your original post. Your a dunce and that's exactly what you ment. I just called you out in your stupidity.

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#39  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23942 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:

@Maroxad: @SOedipus: @blackhairedhero: @Jacanuk: Here's the problem, Gavin has outright encouraged violence on those he doesn't agree with. And hell, this is hardly the first time Australia banned politically controversial figures before, regardless of leaning.

One example being Gerry Adams of the Irish political party, Sinn Fein.

Yes what he says sucks. I am not going to disagree with that.

But last time we swedes tried to downplay and deplatform disgusting ideologues, they ended up becoming the third biggest political party in the country. The media did effectively censor them (by refusing to sell them advertisements) which garnered them sympathy.

Heck, even calling them out on their ****, made them baw like little babies... which may have garnered them sympathy.

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Baconstrip78

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#40  Edited By Baconstrip78
Member since 2013 • 1854 Posts

@blackhairedhero: They looked like normal college kids to me.

I’m not the only one that sees how pathetic those alt right dorks looked either. The white supremacist Andre anglin and editor of the daily stormer said this:

“We need to remain in the realm of the hip, cool, sexy, fun. We need to speak to the culture. We do not want the image of being a bunch of weird losers who march around like assholes while completely outnumbered and get mocked by the entire planet. That is exactly what you do not want. And basically, that is what the Alt-Right has become synonymous with post-Charlottesville.“

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Blackhairedhero

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#41  Edited By Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

@Baconstrip78: Ohh hes right they did have a bunch of losers. But Antifa members dont look like normal college kids to me. They look like dweebs. Kids that haven't lifted a weight in their entire life and then dress up in all black with skull mask.

That's not normal to me.

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LJS9502_basic

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#42 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178854 Posts

@blackhairedhero said:

@LJS9502_basic: I read your original post. Your a dunce and that's exactly what you ment. I just called you out in your stupidity.

The only stupid one is the dunce who doesn't understand.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#43 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

Who is this Gavin dude? Never heard of him.

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deactivated-6068afec1b77d

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#44 deactivated-6068afec1b77d
Member since 2017 • 2539 Posts

What is white culture? People keep talking about white culture but what is exactly white culture?

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mattbbpl

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#45 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23046 Posts

@watercrack445: I'm half Irish and half German, so my heritage involves drinking a lot of alcohol very efficiently.

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Serraph105

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#46  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36044 Posts

@watercrack445 said:

What is white culture? People keep talking about white culture but what is exactly white culture?

Going to plays, golf, being snooty towards others, making sure minorities can't pull themselves out of poverty while preaching about how everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, voting people in who give them government handouts at the expense of educators, etc.

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dark_drag765

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#47 dark_drag765
Member since 2005 • 1056 Posts

@watercrack445:

An invention of racists that hate minorities. Diversity is our greatest strength yet racists want to bitterly cling to the past and have white ethno states

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horgen

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#48  Edited By horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127513 Posts

@Serraph105 said:
@watercrack445 said:

What is white culture? People keep talking about white culture but what is exactly white culture?

Going to plays, golf, being snooty towards others, making sure minorities can't pull themselves out of poverty while preaching about how everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, voting people in who give them government handouts at the expense of educators, etc.

Frankly I would say a lot of different things than that. Don't know how serious you are with this post though.

Mostly white countries are democratic (or considered flawed democratic), with perhaps the most prominent exception being Russia. We are generally more welcoming to minorities than other countries. Though I guess that is somewhat tied with the previous point.

It sure isn't perfect, but we are a lot better than your post make it seem.

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Serraph105

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#49 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36044 Posts

@horgen said:
@Serraph105 said:
@watercrack445 said:

What is white culture? People keep talking about white culture but what is exactly white culture?

Going to plays, golf, being snooty towards others, making sure minorities can't pull themselves out of poverty while preaching about how everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, voting people in who give them government handouts at the expense of educators, etc.

Frankly I would say a lot of different things than that. Don't know how serious you are with this post though.

Mostly white countries are democratic (or considered flawed democratic), with perhaps the most prominent exception being Russia. We are generally more welcoming to minorities than other countries. Though I guess that is somewhat tied with the previous point.

It sure isn't perfect, but we are a lot better than your post make it seem.

I'm partially joking because most of those things aren't what white people consider part of "white culture", but at the same time it's part of what we have actually been doing as well (at least in the US).

Maybe not the "snooty" part though. And again, I'm talking about in the US, not on your side of the pond.

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horgen

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#50 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127513 Posts

@Serraph105 said:

I'm partially joking because most of those things aren't what white people consider part of "white culture", but at the same time it's part of what we have actually been doing as well (at least in the US).

Maybe not the "snooty" part though. And again, I'm talking about in the US, not on your side of the pond.

I was trying to be more general. Including US...