Alec Baldwin to be charged with involuntary manslaughter over Rust set shooting

Wow, pretty crazy. Wasn’t expecting this honestly, him and the armorer are both facing two counts. Doubt due to his status and ability to hire a crack legal defense he’s going to do any time, but this will be interesting to watch play out.

Thoughts? You think he should be charged? Not responsible?

IMO as a gun owner myself, sorry, if you’re handed a gun, it’s always your responsibility regardless of circumstances or what you’re told to check it.

I'm sure the right wing are celebrating he made fun of their cult leader on SNL.

Good. If he was a regular citizen, he would have been in prison a year ago.

Mixed feelings. Obv yes, you should check any real gun you are handed, but I think it's dumb that they even use real guns on a movie set.

Honestly, I think the person who decided to use a real gun should be the one getting charged with murder too. The director? Idk. Who is responsible for requiring the armorer to be there with live weapons? That's who the ultimate blame rests on. You made a dumb decision that resulted in a person being killed.

Movie will probably suck anyway. Was it worth it?

I'm kinda glad. He came across as a huge douche shifting blame to everyone else. I didn't see much compassion for the loss of life. Take some responsibility if you're going to be pointing a gun and pulling the trigger at someone/people.

I don't think Baldwin should be charged, he was doing his job and he would have no reason to think that the gun had live rounds. Live ammunition should have never been on set or anywhere near a stage gun.

I would not expect (or want) it to be the actor's responsibility to mess around with a gun to check it for live rounds. I see this tragic scenario as the fault of the armorer/security team.

Armorer I guess, possibly director. Not sure that actors should be the ones charged though.

He's an actor. He's handed a gun and told what to do. 100% there should be no charges.

Alex Balwin was the producer of this film and has ultimate responsibility. The same as a CEO or a captain of a ship.

@JimB: STFU. He did exactly what he was supposed to do by hiring a professional armorer. He was given a gun and told it was cold. How would an actor or any other normal person know the difference between live rounds and blanks? Right wing weirdos are blaming him over politics.

I think anyone who will come anywhere near a gun, prop or not, should be required to take a gun safety course prior.

There are live guns on a set because they're used to fire blanks. Baldwin isn't faultless here, he broke three rules of gun safety: treating the gun as if it was loaded (he didn't), never pointing the muzzle at anything you're not willing to destroy (he didn't), and checking your background (he didn't), as the round passed through her and into the director who was seriously injured as well.

Any way you cut it that's incredibly irresponsible, and he killed one, and nearly two, people. I don't care whose job is what.....if a gun is in your hands, it's your job, if only for redundancy.

Those Trump skits still live rent free in their heads.

@MirkoS77: So you don't think any show or movie set should film scenes where actors shoot at, much less aim at other people? So all gunfights and standoffs would have to be heavily edited or cropped in a way to imply shooting at others?

correct. the laws on it

are

the armor and the assistant Director on the set. since 1993

There were a number of safety concerns on the set so many that the union workers walked off the job. Balwin was in charge of everything that occurred on the set. If he hadn't been so busy bashing the NRA he could have had them come and give instruction in gun safety and maybe he would not be in this mess. It is a good thing you have Trump to blame for everything.

It is quite obvious you never had a position of responsibility.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/prosecutors-say-they-knew-early-in-the-probe-that-the-fatal-rust-shooting-would-lead-to-charges

seems like the right decision. i don't know why you'd ever point a gun at someone if you hadn't confirmed yourself it was empty.

@comp_atkins: just straight up dumb decision. No reason to aim at a person on set while filming a scene for a movie.

A lot of people defending Baldwin because he's "just an actor on set" overlook the fact he was also the producer of the film. He was one of the main people that got this production going and overseeing the functions. During his interviews he played up the fact he was a clueless actor while dodgy over the status of being one of the producers.

In many ways, he is responsible due to negligence over his own set that ultimately got a person killed.

18 months, he will survive.

@jaydan: true, 18 months isn't shit anyway.

I know a guy who got peer pressured into driving drunk by another friend after they both had been drinking together at a bar. They were super tight, best friends. Well they got into an accident. Guy in the passenger died, the guy driving lived but was in a coma for like 3 weeks with a bunch of damage to his lungs and ribs.

He was devastated finding out his buddy died. He had to go to jail for 6 years. The family of the deceased didn't want him to get anytime, they were a close bunch.

Don't mean to rant.

I'm surprised he only got 18 months on this. A movie your the producer of, where you are in charge of setting up safety protocols.. and you pick up a gun, aim it towards a person on set and pull the trigger when it's loaded.. yeah that's on him..

I’m not entirely against this, but with massive caveats to safety and only as an absolute last resort. You can achieve a lot with editing and camera trickery.

Mostly my opposition is trying to tie the responsibility of gun safety to one person on set. I do think there should be an armorer who is mainly responsible for the safe handling of firearms, but if guns are to be on set at all, then the entire crew before shooting starts must complete a basic gun safety course as an added layer of redundancy. It would have saved this lady’s life.

To be handing guns to others after one person has cleared it is nuts to me and is asking for trouble.

@sargentd: My condolences to those people.

I'm a bit surprised he's only one of two people facing charges; albeit not that surprising at all.

No one can pretend they didn't see it coming. The vast majority that watched this development cringed over the fact Baldwin just couldn't keep his mouth shut. He went well beyond not keeping his mouth shut: he went onto televised interviews, social media shenanigans and so on.

Most of us were like "just stahp already" because most people know the golden rule to keep your mouth shut and seek an attorney when you're being investigated. Alec Baldwin missed that memo somewhere. In a way he caused it on himself.

At at the end of the day he was one of the main producers so he should have known better about what's going on, on set. His TV interviews painted a greater picture he was truly clueless of what was going on with the set when he had one of the sole responsibilities to know everything that was going on, given his job title.

He incriminated himself as a negligent producer, and now he has to face the consequences.

18 months will go by in a flash.

If I'm not mistaken. The girl who was shot wasn't even being filmed for the scene. Camera was towards him and he was facing the camera and decided to aim at a person off set while shooting the "cold gun".

I can't take people who say guns should not be allowed on film sets seriously. You're allowed to own a gun as a private citizen but as soon as you put a camera in front... Well, I know these people are probably talking about union rules rather than laws, but it's still stupid. Think of all the tens of thousands of rounds that were fired on sets over decades before one irresponsible bunch broke the guidelines and got someone killed. Last one prior, I think, was Brandon Lee. It would be really authoritarian and potentially costly to a bunch of filmmakers. Guns can be purchased anywhere and so many are already in circulation. Making a fake gun and making its use look convincing can be much more expensive.

Responsible:

@warm_gun: all those crazy shooting scenes in the matrix and no one was hurt because they were competent. Alec Baldwin should have stuck to acting and not producing.

I actually like him as an actor. But this was a deadly mistake for him and his career.

My favorite Baldwin scene ever. I always go back to it. So good.

Modifying the guns so that they can no longer shoot wouldn't always work either, because sometimes you need to show the mechanics of the gun. And, again, it's also a question of cost, the modifying.

@warm_gun: was that an actual segment?

@SOedipus: Think it's one of his many OJ Simpson segments modified.

@warm_gun said:

Hahaha damn man... R.i.p norm

@warm_gun:

Not laws. Common sense.

If you can't provide an environment that prevents you from murdering your co-workers, then no guns on set seems reasonable.

@sargentd: yeah, I don't know much about the situation but if he was needlessly aiming at someone off screen that is reckless. I also didn't know he was a producer so there is added responsibility there.

I still think the primary culprit is whoever brought live rounds on set, there should be no reason to ever bring live rounds on set.

That's the big reason Alec got so much attention actually. Apparently he had live ammunition in his personal belt bag he was wearing. There were other rounds in other spots on the set as well. Also he says he didn't cock the hammer of the gun, but that's a lie. He cocked it and aimed it at someone and pulled it.. and he had rounds on him. This whole thing looks pretty bad for him.

Yes, plus iirc he was producer of this movie which means it's ultimately all his responsibility.

Him putting blame on others wasn't just immoral, it was objectively irresponsible.

Honestly, I think the rich and famous just live in a different world. It's like the old Arrested Development quote where Lucille is like "Oh how much does a banana cost? $10?"

From what I heard the industry union armorer wasn't around and they used someone unqualified without any credentials to fill the spot. I think ultimate responsibility should go with the director, who likely pursued filming despite lack of safety concerns without a qualified armorer, and the director also was the one who handed Baldwin the weapon stating to him it was a cold weapon.

That being said not sure what other developments I might not know that are relevant. I remember there was supposedly several misfires on set prior to this happening.

@lamprey263: Producer (Baldwin) is above director.

Why was there ammunition there at all? You'd think prop guns would have the firing pin taken out or some sure proof way to ensure real ammo can't get used. I don't think he should be charged.

Everyone who had any form of responsibility for there to not be real ammo in the guns should be charged.

Alec and the two armorers. At least three people should go to jail, as far as I know.

@lamprey263: A director's job is to direct a movie and execute the vision. A producer oversees everything and is responsible for protocols.

That's why when you watch these Marvel movies - Kevin Feige being the Executive Producer of the MCU - they have the ability to yank out a director at will if they don't like how they're performing (and they have), and replace them with a new director.

Director's are not at the top of the food chain on the film set. They may get the most respect as artists, but there's people above them when it comes to the politics of the film industry.

Very sad that a precious life was taken. Very sad indeed.

@MirkoS77: well it might not be fair, but its the way it is. Say you're driving a vehicle, speed up to make a red light (get caught on camera), and hit and kill a jaywalker along the way. This would be considered involuntary manslaughter.

Alec Baldwin likely pulled the trigger, having every expectation that it was a blank. Really shitty situation to be in, but I don't think the charges will stick either.

Glengarry Glen Ross? Good film. I'm not a Baldwin fan per se but that was a good film as well as The Hunt For Red October.

Whether one likes or dislikes this man, the D.A. knows the laws and is privy to information unknown to others.

I'm actually in agreement with JimB on this one. Alec was being an irresponsible producer with regards to safety long before he was handed a gun and he was well aware of it due to the fact that union workers walked off the job. I'd like to point out that Jim and I never agree, so maybe think about that and consider that this has nothing to do with SNL skits, which personally I find hilarious.

At the end of the day the man did point a firearm at someone with that person ending up dead as a result.

@jaydan: true, I'd say as far as accountability goes it really matters who was making such calls like continuing shooting without a qualified armorer, what steps were taken to address the previous misfires on set, but yeah being producer on top of being the actor that fired the fatal bullet does add extra responsibility on his part, whereas if this happened with any other actor who wasn't shouldering that responsibility then I would feel they'd likely bare less blame.

I think negligence as a producer on safety will surely be a more weighed consideration. There's probably previously agreed to protocols just for purpose of getting the filming insured that were likely ignored or abandoned in the process, and that indicates a willful negligence or intentional disregard for safety procedures. One of those was probablybhaving the qualified armorer and continuing to shoot without one.

I don't think though a director necessarily out of consideration for partial blame if they did indeed hand over the weapon stating the weapon was safe for use. That could also be one of Baldwin's questionable assertions he's made on the issue too. Was the director just reiterating what the armorer told her? Did protocols require second verification before passing along a firearm on set?

I imagine the trial will be enlightening. The fact he is being charge definitely suggests some extra material considerations we might not currently know. I'm not resourceful enough right now but surely there must be charging documents filed or being filed that will lay out further details prosecutors weighed in such a decision.

There's some details I would like to know just for personal curiosity like did the bullet travel straight into victim or did it say strike the camera and pass through in a deflected trajectory into the operator behind it. Or was the set rather dark, and I'd imagine there'd be many bright lights between the actor and those behind them maybe making it difficult to see where he was pointing the weapon and maybe at who. Not that any of that might matter because like you said and I agree his blame may ultimately fall at his feet for being the producer who pushed for filming to go on despite a number of safety incidents on set prior, and without the presence of a qualified armorer.

The Assistant Director David Halls who handed the gun to Baldwin signed a plea agreement to negligent use of a deadly weapon. Suspended sentence with 6 months of probation. I imagine his career is over so that is his primary punishment.

The armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is the young daughter of a very experienced Hollywood armorer. But Rust was only her second job and there are reports of safety concerns on her first job.

The gun involved along with at least 2 other guns were used in live-fire target practice by crew members earlier that day.

Live and dummy rounds were found mixed together in several places on set.

I doubt that Baldwins 'I didn't pull the trigger, therefore something else must have been broken' defence helped him. Especially after testing proved that the gun could not be fired without a trigger pull.

This is like a process safety incident in an industrial setting. A chain of things go wrong.

Baldwin does not enforce strong safety rules...as Producer.

Reed is inexperienced and doesn't have absolute control over the guns and ammo.

Crew members take the guns to the range. Different types of ammo end up being intermingled...blanks and live rounds.

Hall is lax on safety and doesn't visually confirm the weapon ammo. He hands the gun to Baldwin mistakenly stating that the weapon is clear.

Baldwin does not do his own safety check....as actor.

Baldwin points the weapon casually and pulls the trigger.

It wasn't even live action...it was a rehearsal.

Shitshow all around.

I've been reading comments for days, and it's still amazing to me that anyone would expect an actor to "check the gun", whatever that even means, or even to have the knowledge to do so in the first place.

ATF

Firearms Handling and Storage

1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
2. Always keep the muzzle of the firearm pointed in a safe direction.
3. Always keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard unless you intend to fire the weapon.

As stated above, there were issues with safety as Alec Baldwin as Producer. This was also a rehearsal.

---

I'm English and emigrated to Canada, and even I know to treat all guns as if loaded.

It's amazing to me that anyone would believe that just because someone has a particular job they would not be expected to exercise responsible gun safety. Relegating gun safety to one individual is bonkers, is asking for trouble, and is partly why this chick is dead. Apparently it works as these events are rare, I just think putting all that responsibility into one's hands removes redundant measures to safety.

From what I've read, various guns were lying around the set, intermingled with live rounds (some in Baldwin's costume gun belt, ffs). Also from what I've read, Alec said he didn't "pull the trigger", but did admit to pulling back and dropping the hammer. Which is all that's required, so I don't know what exactly his point is in trying to absolve himself by denying one action but claiming another when they're functionally analogous.