Divinity Original Sin: Enhanced Edition (Video)

Now that's how you update a game:

Get back to me when they update what is actually important for an RPG - the awful, meandering, poorly written story and the complete lack of compelling companions (who had no effect on the story and weren't even fully fleshed out I might add). Also, as a personal note ditch the Diablo-esque randomized loot system. In the 10 hours I played before being thoroughly bored and frustrated I got exactly ONE upgrade for ONE of my characters, everything else was useless.

Holy S%$&!

Can't wait till 27th...

I only played a little after character creation (14hours total) and they announced that they will create EE.

I am waiting since then!

I thought the game was fine as it was. Voice overs and sparkly animations don't really do much for me. I'll wait and see what else has been "improved" before passing judgement, but I do get a bad vibe from that video.

@FelipeInside: What's up with that Sword Coast Legends ?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/10/21/sword-coast-legends-review/

http://www.pcgamer.com/sword-coast-legends-review/

Split-screen, controller support, updated effects and slightly improved graphics, rebalanced combat, rebalanced loot system, voice over, improved economy, new quests, locations, improved UI, combat styles...

Sounds like you're bitching just for the hell of it.

I have the original game. Will I need to buy the Enhanced Edition full price or is there a way to get it for cheaper through an upgrade like the Metro games.

Edit: Never mind, apparently you get it for free.

@Juub1990: If you have the steam version like me, the Enchanced Edition will appear in the release day on your games library.

ps: Suddenly from not have anything interesting to play, last week I bought Witcher 3 and Hearts of stone and in 3 days I will have the DOS EE. Did I mention that I also preordered FO4? :P This is the part that I am saying goodbye to social life...

Re-balanced combat, new quests and locations are the only things that mean anything to me. I really could not care less about "improved" graphics and animations, voice-overs, controller support (derp), "better" story, etc....The console focus on this "enhanced edition" IS concerning TO ME, especially since I supported the sequel.

Now, I have no reason to believe Larian will go full retard on the sequel to D:OS, but that KS video did give me some concerns.

I think the low scores/player reviews are because it's not full blown classic hardcore D&D. It plays more like an action Diablo with D&D spells/rules (more casual). I don't mind that to be honest. I will play it when I find some time.

Just because you don't care about them doesn't mean they don't matter. I see no downside or negativity in improving all those things and adding voice-overs, better spell animations etc.

Maybe I'll like it this time

And better performance too apparently. I'm definitely going to replay it.

Heathen!

Man I held off for a few months on a 2nd playthrough back when this was "just" a "hardcore patch"; somewhat stoked for this but Wasteland 2's Director's Cut has me a bit leery.

@klunt_bumskrint:

I'm not holding my breath. I'll grudgingly download it, but if I am not impressed before leaving the first town then it is going right back in my hidden games list on Steam.

Awesome, I'll be playing through this game again come Tuesday, such a great game!

Dude, if you didn't like it the first time you won't like it now. They have improved the systems but it's still the same game.

It was fine as it was, but they've made improvements, and it's free of charge to people who own the original. I'm not sure what your problem is...

I suggest you watch the video because they've added improvements that go far beyond improved graphics and voice overs.

Just what I look for in D&D cRPGs.

@bussinrounds said:

@FelipeInside said:

@bussinrounds said:

@FelipeInside: What's up with that Sword Coast Legends ?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/10/21/sword-coast-legends-review/

http://www.pcgamer.com/sword-coast-legends-review/

It plays more like an action Diablo with D&D spells/rules (more casual)

Just what I look for in D&D cRPGs.

Take it as a more casual approach to D&D lore.

@FelipeInside: Casual and RPGs aren't 2 things that go well together for me. (ESPECIALLY D&D ones)

Directly goes against what made me love the genre in the first place.

It even has scaling and shit like level 1 beholders I heard.

@bussinrounds said:

@FelipeInside: Casual and RPGs aren't 2 things that go well together for me. (ESPECIALLY D&D ones)

Directly goes against what made me love the genre in the first place.

It even has scaling and shit like level 1 beholders I heard.

It's not getting great reviews but some people say it's fun nonetheless.

When exactly did story and companions become important to an RPG?

Tabletop RPGs never had any particulary good stories (just enough to drive the players forward). The emphasis was isntead on the actual roleplaying bit. And Tabletop RPGs are far superior to the Computer RPGs. Likewise, most early RPGs didnt have much story either. Back then it was mostly about putting you in the shoes of another character, in another world.

Good stories are nice to have, but have never been a make or break for the RPG genre.

Wait... What?!?

And I thought gunning down super mutants with the starting pistol at level 2 with ease in Fallout 3 was bad enough.

Ugh... what?

You know the most celebrated cRPGs are the ones with amazing stories, memorable characters and interactions right? BG 1/2, Arcanum, Torment, Anachronox, etc... all of them focused heavily on the narrative and character development. You and I, I'd wager play RPGs (and single-player games in general) for entirely different reasons. I play singleplayer games primarily for the narrative, I need a good story, characters, and to a lesser extent interactions and choices to drive me forward. Without those things a game could have the best gameplay ever and I still wouldn't enjoy it, because gameplay/combat alone is not enough to motivate me. There has to be a narrative payoff.

Now don't get me wrong multiplayer games (both competitive and co-op) story isn't nearly as important. I have played a lot of Halo, TF1&2, L4D, etc. in my day and when you are playing with others gameplay trumps everything else. But when it comes to singleplayer games, story trumps everything else in my book. Without it, I have little to no motivation to keep playing. This is where D:OS failed, the story makes a terrible first impression, progresses glacially slow, was poorly written, overly verbose, and lacked any interesting characters or motivations besides "save the world because you are a hero". Since I didn't really enjoy the gameplay (that is my personal opinion) I ditched it after 15 frustrating hours.

Hopefully the EE improves on a lot of that, they have apparently completely redone the story and ending, added new companions, redone the (horrendous) crafting system, and added a whole bunch of new stuff. I actually wanted to like this game especially since I was a backer. I'll give it a try tomorrow, but given how bad a taste it left in my mouth at launch it is going to have to work at least 2x as hard to impress me as any other game.

@SerOlmy: The only game you listed with an amazing story was Planescape: Torment. Furthermore, Anachronox is not considered a top tier RPG. Definately high, but not top tier.

• Baldur's Gate excelled in encounter design. And its excellent use of the world. Its plot was extremely silly, and the characters were two dimensional at best, and flat out annoying at worst (Minsc, Aerie)
• Arcanum's stoory wasnt excellent, but it was the world building that was. But even then, does it really matter, Arcanum, as good as it was... was never very successful.

When I play a game, I just want it to do something well, be it story, gameplay or anything else. I like Visual Novels (currently the peak genre for video game storytelling as adventure games just stopped being developed at a regular rate), but I also love stuff like Super Mario Galaxy 2 which have no story to speak of. Both Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Planescape torment are amongst my top 20 games of all time. Games need to do something well, this is why Divinity ORiginal Sin worked, and Pillars of Eternity was a piece of shit. Because Divinity Original Sin focused on what it wanted to do and did it well, Pillars tried to chase too many rabbits, and achieved nothing in the process.

• Wizardry series didnt have much of a story, and very barebones in that respect, but offered top notch exploration. And the difficulty level made the exploration even more satisfying.
• Ultima didnt really excel in storytelling either. Ultima 1-4 were as barebones as they get (and U4 didnt even have a villian), Ultima 5 and 6 had a stronger story but even that was second to selling you a world. The only game in the series that actually had something of a decent story would be Ultima 7 Part 2.
• I barely remember anything of Pool of Radiance's plot as well. As good as the ride was, the excellent implementation of 2e Tabletop experience is what I played for.

Clearly RPGs were never built around story, but rather that story found room to thrive in RPGs. But even then, if we look at the two most popular RPG franchises out there.

• The Elder Scrolls: Is heavily criticized for godawful writing. One of the biggest selling points of the series is that it is your journey, that is yours alone.
• The most popular jRPG franchise: Pokemon. Is very similar in this respect. The first games in the franchise had no story to speak of, just go to 8 gyms then elite 4. The premise of these games is the exact same as the Elder Scrolls. That you embark on a your very own journey.

Clearly, storytelling has never been the most important thing for an RPG, both historically and looking at what sells.

Its not even a genre that requires a PC focus .... any top down rpg isn't...

@Maroxad:

I would argue semantics on the point that, in my opinion, world-building is a major part of narrative. I contemplated typing up a rebuttal to your points, but I just don't have the mental energy for it today. So I'll just say, we can agree to disagree on the finer points of RPG narratives and how important it is since we obviously have different tastes.

I plan on giving D:OS another try tomorrow when the EE is released and I hope it will be more enjoyable. But I don't really expect that hope will be borne out.

The game will be released on Steam at 10am PST (27th ofc). :/

Daaaaaaaaaaam...

Since I haven't played the original this will be a great time to pick up the new edition. For those that played the game and finished it, on average, how long is the game?

This seems like a rather strange stance. Its akin to someone complaining about a movie not be as interactive and that interactivity is the most important aspect of a movie. The most natural response to a person like that would be "Its a movie not a game".

@SerOlmy: World Building is heavily rooted in story. But not exclusively rooted in story. But the thing about many of the games I listed where I mentioned the world is... the world was not just great through excellent world building but also how they used gameplay to suck you into the world. Arcanum's world was great not only because of top notch lore, but also because of how the lore was implemented in said game. The towns were varied, and that is partly thanks to the excellent art team. So while, part a good chunk of world building falls into story. Worldbuilding can also benefit gameplay and art.

As for Ultima. Sosaria/Brittania, doesnt have particulary great lore... but the way these games put you in the world, entirely through gameplay, was brilliant. Few games offer interactivity close to Ultima 7. Divinity: Original Sin, was one of the few games that got interactivity anywhere close. Which is what Larian set out to do. Make a successor to Ultima 7.

@FelipeInside Looks fantastic, thanks :):

@Maroxad:

I personally never played any of the Ultima games so I can't comment on the similarities. I will, however, comment that a lot of the Kickstarter and pre-launch material was claiming it would be a successor to the Baldur's Gate games, which I believe it completely failed at.

@SerOlmy: That was the dumb journalists not knowing what they were talking about and just saying BALDURS GATE because that's probably the only OLD SKOOL RPG they ever heard of. (or think that's the only one their readers know)

Swen always said it was Ultima 7 that is his favorite RPG and the inspiration for OS. And I think you might be looking in the wrong place for what you seem to be after. You want a good story driven RPG with great choices & consequences/reactivity to hold you over until the new Torment ? Check out Age of Decadence.

And I'm right with Maroxad about the games having some defined strength and not trying to 'do it all' (which usually results in a lot of half baked elements)

Glad I waited all this time to play OS though, as it looks like they really put a lot of effort into this enhanced edition.

@SerOlmy: Well, good thing they never attempted to make a successor to Baldur's Gate then. I strictly remember everything from Larian, concerning itself with Ultima 7. And nothing with Baldur's Gate. Even from material they did release before Kickstarter, they explicitly said they were working on something akin to Ultima 7.

So if they failed at a BG successor it would be like failing an Pre-Calc exam because you used the faster, more effective techniques from Calculus and Linear Algebra to solve the problems (Most schools will allow you to solve the problems using the more advanced techniques if you want to, as it is from them the more basic techniques tend to stem from). They may not have created a successor to BG, but they did create a successor to something better.

It's already been added to steam games library!

The trailer on Steam shows a healthy amount of additions. Thanks for the link and heads up.

I'm pretty sure I said I would try it out and see how it is before passing judgement. My big concern is the next game, the sequel. If these trifles become the focus of their development I will be pissed. Again, I am going to give Larian the benefit of the doubt, and I'm certainly not freaking out over this, but that video did give me reason for concern. "Plays better with a controller?" Uhm, no. "Voice-overs make the game better?" Uhm, no. "Sparkly new animations make the game better?" Uhm, again, no. I don't think Larian will, but they wouldn't be the first company to go full-Bioware after a little success.

The game already had voice-overs, they just have added complete voice-overs now.

And why wouldn't improved animations be better?

I like a lot of the new additions and balance changes.

HOWEVER, there is one "improvement" I dont approve of.

That is the fact that armor is now a percentual damage reduction as opposed to a flat one.

Voice-overs are a huge pain in the ass for RPG developers and affect way more game design decisions than you may think. Chris Avellone wrote about it once. I can also read a lot faster than the third-rate actors recite their lines, and the voices I imagine in my head are usually better than the, aforementioned, third-rate actors. Animations on the other hand - I dunno, I guess I just couldn't care less about them. It's not really something I pay attention to when I play a RPG. Hell, graphics in general aren't that important to me. I've never bought a RPG (or any game for that matter) because of its graphics. I'd rather the time, money, and effort be spent elsewhere.

But whether they matter to you or not what's the negative in improving them? (graphics, animations).

As for voice acting, you can probably skip it if you read faster.

They cost money and time which could be put to better use. Sorry, I thought I made that clear.

Depends on the developer. Normally different teams do different segments of a game, and if they have the budget and time to do so then I don't see a problem.

In this case it's clear that all the initial funds/time went into the gameplay and story, now with more funds and more time they have improved the ways in which that story and gameplay is shown. What's wrong with that?

I really don't have a problem with the work on the enhanced edition. They made some cabbage and they're reinvesting it back into their game and engine. Like I said, my worry is with the next game (especially since I helped fund it).

Look, I know Swen is a freak of nature, and I know this was primarily a console-centric video that he was using to hype his game to the unwashed masses of console groundlings who have probably never heard of Larian, but, even knowing all of that, something about that video rubbed me the wrong way. I am (a little) concerned, especially if this sells well on consoles, that console-creep (not my term) will begin to make its way into Larian's core game design and, alas, before you know it, another fine PC RPG developer has gone over to the Darkside. It's not like that hasn't happened before.

Yeah, this is worst case scenario, but I also think I have gone out of my way to say that I am also giving Larian the benefit of the doubt here. They haven't really disappointed me....yet. I guess I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

You welcome! :)

At least I can start playing as I always wanted to. Dual wield!

I would rather have had the devs not focus on full voice overs and instead an option to speed up combat.

Ok I have given it another shot. I'm further along at this point, I just completed the first two undead mission and moved on to Black Cove, and while I think it is better I still don't really think it is great. The pacing is just glacially slow, and I posit that there is a reason that games do dynamic level-scaling these days. Because in a game that is supposed to be about freedom and exploration, the pathway to advance to keep up with the level curve of enemies is almost entirely linear. The choice/exploration is just an illusion, because if you go to an adjacent area on the same map that is even 1-2 levels higher it will either be a frustrating slog or impossible. I am going to keep pushing through, but last night I almost uninstalled it due to the random BS with the combat system.

The new fully voiced story is nice, but it just progresses so slowly I am having trouble staying invested. I have been killing the same zombies in the same area for the same quest for 10+ hours now.

Update:

After 20+ hours or so I finally solved the murder and I don't think I can keep going to wipe out the undead at the church. The story progression is just soooooo slow and the combat is just so unsatisfying (to me). The boss encounters are ridiculously random, I must have spent 90 minutes and numerous restarts on the Pontius Pirate fight last night, eventually cheesing it with a smoke grenade to remain out of combat and move a character to the "I win button", which felt incredibly unsatisfying when I won (and got crap loot). Compare that with the fight that ends the murder investigation I easily completed it in one try (and got crap loot), everything depends on who gets the best roll on their CC abilities, you or the NPCs.

Say what you will about the RTwP on Pillars, but at least you feel like you are actually controlling the fight. You can move characters around at will and the spell effects/crowd-control feels a hell of a lot less random. I played it on hard and never felt like I was being screwed by RNG. In D:OS I feel like I am fighting more against the RNG than the enemies. Combined with random loot system not giving me anything useful 90% of the time and crafting being super-irritating, by the end of the murder investigation I have so little invested in the game that I finally washed my hands of it.