Yes we all have free choice....

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dragonmaster64

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#1 dragonmaster64
Member since 2003 • 6104 Posts

yes we all have free choice but whats the point when they are affected by so many factors? in the end of day we are moved forward by chemicals, the only way we act, move, talk, see,taste, is all do to chemicals. these chemicals affect how we feel/react. due to these chemicals some can be less angry some may be more angry. some ppl feel depressed, happy, a multitude of emotions ranging from one extreme to the other extreme. so i ask you, yes we have free choice, but how can we say "everyone has a choice in the end" when there are so many chemicals to affect how we act and our outcome.

for example a person is just generaly angry, due to his chemical makeup. so techniqually its a choice but whats the point when its influenced?

an extreme example is someone who is paralysed. and you ask him to move. does he have a choice?

although the man paralysed is just an example. these example touch on society on so many ways.

like you have an illness that you have great fear of the dark, that you can only work in the day and must come home early. is it really a choice?

in the end of the day whats the point of saying everyone has control of choice when we are influenced by so many factors.

in general do we have a control of choice?

My answer is that No, not all of us have a control of choice.

what do you think?

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MrPraline

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#2 MrPraline
Member since 2008 • 21351 Posts

In a way, in our contemporary world view, it's easy to think that science has come to take the place of God. But some philosophical problems remain as troubling as ever. Take the problem of free will. This problem has been around for a long time, since before Aristotle in 350 B.C. St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, these guys all worried about how we can be free if God already knows in advance everything you're gonna do. Nowadays we know that the world operates according to some fundamental physical laws, and these laws govern the behavior of every object in the world. Now, these laws, because they're so trustworthy, they enable incredible technological achievements. But look at yourself. We're just physical systems too, right? We're just complex arrangements of carbon molecules. We're mostly water, and our behavior isn't gonna be an exception to these basic physical laws. So it starts to look like whether its God setting things up in advance and knowing everything you're gonna do or whether it's these basic physical laws governing everything, there's not a lot of room left for freedom. So now you might be tempted to just ignore the question, ignore the mystery of free will. Say "Oh, well, it's just an historical anecdote. It's sophomoric. It's a question with no answer. Just forget about it." But the question keeps staring you right in the face. You think about individuality for example, who you are. Who you are is mostly a matter of the free choices that you make. Or take responsibility. You can only be held responsible, you can only be found guilty, or you can only be admired or respected for things you did of your own free will. So the question keeps coming back, and we don't really have a solution to it. It starts to look like all our decisions are really just a charade. Think about how it happens. There's some electrical activity in your brain. Your neurons fire. They send a signal down into your nervous system. It passes along down into your muscle fibers. They twitch. You might, say, reach out your arm. It looks like it's a free action on your part, but every one of those - every part of that process is actually governed by physical law, chemical laws, electrical laws, and so on. So now it just looks like the big bang set up the initial conditions, and the whole rest of human history, and even before, is really just the playing out of subatomic particles according to these basic fundamental physical laws. We think we're special. We think we have some kind of special dignity, but that now comes under threat. I mean, that's really challenged by this picture. So you might be saying, "Well, wait a minute. What about quantum mechanics? I know enough contemporary physical theory to know it's not really like that. It's really a probabilistic theory. There's room. It's loose. It's not deterministic." And that's going to enable us to understand free will. But if you look at the details, it's not really going to help because what happens is you have some very small quantum particles, and their behavior is apparently a bit random. They swerve. Their behavior is absurd in the sense that its unpredictable and we can't understand it based on anything that came before. It just does something out of the blue, according to a probabilistic framework. But is that going to help with freedom? I mean, should our freedom be just a matter of probabilities, just some random swerving in a chaotic system? That starts to seem like it's worse. I'd rather be a gear in a big deterministic physical machine than just some random swerving. So we can't just ignore the problem. We have to find room in our contemporary world view for persons with all that that entails; not just bodies, but persons. And that means trying to solve the problem of freedom, finding room for choice and responsibility, and trying to understand individuality.

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dragonmaster64

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#3 dragonmaster64
Member since 2003 • 6104 Posts

your post was tldr but no it didnt asnwer my post.

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LJS9502_basic

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#4 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 178847 Posts
We have free choice as you call it but your examples blow.
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dragonmaster64

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#5 dragonmaster64
Member since 2003 • 6104 Posts
We have free choice as you call it but your examples blow. LJS9502_basic
what do you mean, those are real life examples. how can you call something free choice when in the end we are cornered and forced to choose a certain side. yea we can call it free choice but whats the point?
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MrPraline

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#6 MrPraline
Member since 2008 • 21351 Posts

your post was tldr but no it didnt asnwer my post.

dragonmaster64
It's quote that applies to this thread and is basically what I feel about determinism vs free will. Its six paragraphs. How is that too long? Are you 6? Jesus Christ, do not start topics about philosophy if you cannot even be bothered to read a few lines of text.
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Rich3232

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#7 Rich3232
Member since 2012 • 2628 Posts
Free choice is a funny idea.
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Slashless

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#8 Slashless
Member since 2011 • 9534 Posts

your post was tldr but no it didnt asnwer my post.

dragonmaster64
if it was tl;dr how would you know whether it answered the question or not
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dragonmaster64

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#9 dragonmaster64
Member since 2003 • 6104 Posts
[QUOTE="dragonmaster64"]

your post was tldr but no it didnt asnwer my post.

Slashless
if it was tl;dr how would you know whether it answered the question or not

i thought his sig was part of his post.
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MrPraline

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#10 MrPraline
Member since 2008 • 21351 Posts
[QUOTE="Slashless"][QUOTE="dragonmaster64"]

your post was tldr but no it didnt asnwer my post.

dragonmaster64
if it was tl;dr how would you know whether it answered the question or not

i thought his sig was part of his post.

so it was four lines longer can see why that made a significant impact on your judgment
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deactivated-59913425220eb

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#11 deactivated-59913425220eb
Member since 2002 • 1772 Posts
I am assuming you mean free-will, I'll just name it that for now. It all depends on what you mean by free-will. In my opinion there is no point of discussing free-will and choice if we aren't talking about things of eternal significance. Not sure if that's is what you want to discuss, probably something else.
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dragonmaster64

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#12 dragonmaster64
Member since 2003 • 6104 Posts
I am assuming you mean free-will, I'll just name it that for now. It all depends on what you mean by free-will. In my opinion there is no point of discussing free-will and choice if we aren't talking about things of eternal significance. Not sure if that's is what you want to discuss, probably something else.GameGuy642003
something similar.
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Chris_Williams

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#13 Chris_Williams
Member since 2009 • 14882 Posts

you do have free choice, its just the consqeuences suck so bad you only think you are limited

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Rhazakna

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#14 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
Free will is an illusion. "Choice" can exist in a sense, but humans certainly don't posses free will-though it is a persistent falsehood.
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megaspiderweb09

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#15 megaspiderweb09
Member since 2009 • 3686 Posts

If choices were so free per say, then perhaps murder should not be an offense. Just a consequence of choice

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BenedictArnold7

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#16 BenedictArnold7
Member since 2012 • 743 Posts
We have no choice ever. There is no free will. There is only an illusion of free will. Look up "Sam Harris Free Will" on YouTube. He is a neuroscientist who can explain it to you with ease and detail.
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wis3boi

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#17 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

free will is an illusion of choice.  We do make choices, that is given, but our choices are always limited by other factors, and as such, is never truely an open choice.

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whiskeystrike

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#18 whiskeystrike
Member since 2011 • 12213 Posts

angst 101

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Teenaged

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#19 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

How is that too long? Are you 6? Jesus Christ, do not start topics about philosophy if you cannot even be bothered to read a few lines of text.MrPraline

This.

 

 

Also, God gave us free will. There, its settled now.

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ionusX

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#20 ionusX
Member since 2009 • 25777 Posts

TC is over analyzing things he needs to relax unwind and maybe get some sleep. you have clearly been up longer than 12hrs today

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dragonmaster64

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#21 dragonmaster64
Member since 2003 • 6104 Posts
hmm it just i was running into people who always said that "we always have a choice." which seemed wrong to me.
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British_Azimio

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#22 British_Azimio
Member since 2007 • 2459 Posts
That depends. Who, exactly makes the choice?
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dragonmaster64

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#23 dragonmaster64
Member since 2003 • 6104 Posts
That depends. Who, exactly makes the choice?British_Azimio
well its you yourself making the choice. but you are in a sense cornered and the ultimately leads to some choices highly inconvenient while others more convenient. despite this you still have the choice. ?