Why can't the universe's complexity be proof of God?

Why can't the thought of everything having order and balance in the universe be proof of god's existence?

Because there isn't any order, you perceive there to be order.

God just called. He said stop thinking of the complexity in all things living, dead, or otherwise. He said get back to your lan party.Wilfred_Owen

I agree with this +9000

What is there about it that undeniably proves God's existence?

And how do you know there's order and balance in the universe? These are perceptions, not facts.

Maybe the universe and everything in it is God. Not a separate entity.

Why CAN it be proof of God's existence ;) -katamarina-

Because we have an explanation supported by empirical evidence - The Big Bang Theory.

That the universe came out with the constants it did, which allow the complex organisation of matter, can be accounted for, albeit with untestable hypotheses, of which "God" is one. Another is that there is a number of universes, either simultaneously or in sequence, and one of these has the right constants through chance.

Now the problem with this "God" idea is what does this actually tell us? it merely asserts that there was some uncaused cause that controlled which constants the universe has. There is no necessity for such a thing to be conscious.

The hypothesis is untestable, so it could be right. Deism in general could be right, or a naturalistic explanation could be. There is no way of knowing.

The complexity of the universe doesnt prove magic.

Maybe the universe and everything in it is God. Not a separate entity.

WhiteSnake5000

Then why bother using the word "God"? This is my problem with pantheism i general.

[QUOTE="-katamarina-"]Why CAN it be proof of God's existence ;) Citrus25

Because it is not conclusive. You can't conclusively prove God with a single piece of non-direct evidence. Proof of the existence of God would be proof that directly supports the existence of God, like an appearance by God. It's simple to understand, really - just ask yourself this: does the existence of a complicated system indicate that a specific supernatural being created the system? If you can't prove the specific supernatural being part, how can it be conclusive proof of the existence of such a being? It could serve as a piece of corroborating evidence - or a clue - with other pieces of evidence, but on its own, forget about it.

Maybe the universe and everything in it is God. Not a separate entity.

WhiteSnake5000

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"]

Maybe the universe and everything in it is God. Not a separate entity.

_glatisant_

Then why bother using the word "God"? This is my problem with pantheism i general.

[QUOTE="_glatisant_"]

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"]

Maybe the universe and everything in it is God. Not a separate entity.

WhiteSnake5000

Then why bother using the word "God"? This is my problem with pantheism i general.

It's not important, and I don't know too much about it (I know it doesn't postulate a theistic Gd, I'm not wholely ignorant) but you haven't really answered my question. What makes a pantheistic God a God in any sense?

It's already proof of evolution. You can believe that a god set evolution in motion, but you've got no reason to.

Just because it's there, doesn't mean that it's proof of whatever theory you believe in. We already know that the universe exists and what is in it, the question is how it got there. God is just one of many theories.

What's the point of trying to prove God anyway? If God exists, he'll let you know at some point. No need to try and force it on others.

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"][QUOTE="_glatisant_"]

Then why bother using the word "God"? This is my problem with pantheism i general.

_glatisant_

It's not important, and I don't know too much about it (I know it doesn't postulate a theistic Gd, I'm not wholely ignorant) but you haven't really answered my question. What makes a pantheistic God a God in any sense?

I believe Bacon is proof of atleast some kind of deity. I mean surely whoever came up with that must have been some what devine.

Incidently why does Bacon not come into religion more often? Without Bacon life would not be worth living.

I believe Bacon is proof of atleast some kind of deity. I mean surely whoever came up with that must have been some what devine.

Incidently why does Bacon not come into religion more often? Without Bacon life would not be worth living.

WasntAvailable

[QUOTE="_glatisant_"]

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"] There is more than one type of pantheism. Furthermore the God of pantheism isn't the same type of God as the one found in religions like Christianity. Pantheism isn't theistic or atheistic. WhiteSnake5000

It's not important, and I don't know too much about it (I know it doesn't postulate a theistic Gd, I'm not wholely ignorant) but you haven't really answered my question. What makes a pantheistic God a God in any sense?

I still don't see why that should need to be called "God", but I see what you mean and have no real interest in pursuing the matter.

P.S. Are you quoting Spinoza?

I believe Bacon is proof of atleast some kind of deity. I mean surely whoever came up with that must have been some what devine.

Incidently why does Bacon not come into religion more often? Without Bacon life would not be worth living.

WasntAvailable

Surely a food as delicious as bacon had to come from a miraculous beginning. :D

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"][QUOTE="_glatisant_"]

It's not important, and I don't know too much about it (I know it doesn't postulate a theistic Gd, I'm not wholely ignorant) but you haven't really answered my question. What makes a pantheistic God a God in any sense?

_glatisant_

I still don't see why that should need to be called "God", but I see what you mean and have no real interest in pursuing the matter.

P.S. Are you quoting Spinoza?

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

I believe Bacon is proof of atleast some kind of deity. I mean surely whoever came up with that must have been some what devine.

Incidently why does Bacon not come into religion more often? Without Bacon life would not be worth living.

dracula_16

Surely a food as delicious as bacon had to come from a miraculous beginning. :D

The universe is far from orderly. Dying stars, super nova that destroy solar systems, black holes that suck up anything and everything around them, scorched planets, colliding planets, asteroids that destroy or scar planets and moons, colliding galaxies, etc.

The universe is chaotic.

Because the complexity of the universe is also proof of the complex nature of non-Godlike forces. Just as some see the complexity of life as 'proof' of God while others see the complexity of life as 'proof' of the complex nature of evolution. Just because we do not understand soemthign doesn't automatically mean God did it.

Since when is there perfect "order and balance" in the universe?

I'd have a hard time describing the universe as "having order and balance."

Since when is there perfect "order and balance" in the universe?

ithilgore2006

Because that in no way is proof. That seems like a pretty good reason...

[QUOTE="ithilgore2006"]

Since when is there perfect "order and balance" in the universe?

Tsimcluckis

Do schools teach kids anything these days? Honestly, ****.

What does God's complexity prove the existence of? Supergod?SpaceMoose

[QUOTE="Citrus25"][QUOTE="-katamarina-"]Why CAN it be proof of God's existence ;) mlisen

What does God's complexity prove the existence of? Supergod?SpaceMoose

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]What does God's complexity prove the existence of? Supergod?D_Battery

[QUOTE="D_Battery"][QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]What does God's complexity prove the existence of? Supergod?Tsimcluckis

The universe does not need a beginning.super_mario_128

[QUOTE="D_Battery"][QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]What does God's complexity prove the existence of? Supergod?Tsimcluckis