Why are there so many black Christians,

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LiftedHeadshot

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#1 LiftedHeadshot
Member since 2009 • 2460 Posts

when the bible encourages the use of slavery?

It's funny how easily people can be coerced into Christianity. Or is it just that they aren't well read in the Bible? Or do they practice the commonly used "pick-and-choose" method of selecting which doctrines to practice?

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konvikt_17

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#2 konvikt_17
Member since 2008 • 22378 Posts

Oh what a wonderful topic we have. i see this going places.

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BluRayHiDef

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#3 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

Biblical slavery is not based on racism/ a sense of racial superiority. Biblical slavery is either indentured servitude or a punishment for heathenism.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#4 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

slavery

LiftedHeadshot
There's your answer.
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CreasianDevaili

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#5 CreasianDevaili
Member since 2005 • 4429 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LiftedHeadshot"]

slavery

There's your answer.

Always wanted to ask this. Who is the dude in your avatar?
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Nengo_Flow

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#6 Nengo_Flow
Member since 2011 • 10644 Posts
becuz slave masters and becuz Christianity was (and some say still is) the only acceptable religion in the US so that wat they were thought
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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#7 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

Biblical slavery is not based on racism/ a sense of racial superiority. Biblical slavery is either indentured servitude or a punishment for heathenism.

BluRayHiDef

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.45You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.46You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

So you're allowed to have slaves as long as they are from a different country and race to you. How the hell is that not racist?

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mindstorm

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#8 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts
I consider myself a servant, no, a slave to the majesty of God. As such, I am inclined to believe that the term is now always to be considered negative. In the Scriptures themselves servant-hood itself is not to be considered a bad thing and the Christian is called to submit to all men. However, mistreating others, slaves included, is to be denounced with that many of the practices found in American slavery. That stated, the vast majority of the abolition movement in the North and within England was spurned by the conviction from Scripture that people ought to be free to exercise their faith by their own choice. With that comes both freedom of state enforced religion and freedom from slavery. As such, I very much do denounce slavery as it was seen in earlier American history.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#9 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LiftedHeadshot"]

slavery

There's your answer.

Always wanted to ask this. Who is the dude in your avatar?

Amare Stoudemire
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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#10 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

I consider myself a servant, no, a slave to the majesty of God. As such, I am inclined to believe that the term is now always to be considered negative. In the Scriptures themselves servant-hood itself is not to be considered a bad thing and the Christian is called to submit to all men. However, mistreating others, slaves included, is to be denounced with that many of the practices found in American slavery. That stated, the vast majority of the abolition movement in the North and within England was spurned by the conviction from Scripture that people ought to be free to exercise their faith by their own choice. With that comes both freedom of state enforced religion and freedom from slavery. As such, I very much do denounce slavery as it was seen in earlier American history.mindstorm

You seemed to skip over the part where the bible says slave owners are allowed to kill their slaves as long as the death isn't instant

"If a slave owner takes a stick and beats his slave, whether male or female, and the slave dies on the spot, the owner is punished. But if the slave does not die for a day or two, the master is not punished. The loss of his property is punishment enough." Exodus 20,21 (Good news translation)

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#11 cfstar
Member since 2009 • 1979 Posts
 -
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Jebus213

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#12 Jebus213
Member since 2010 • 10056 Posts
Why are there so many religious people in general?
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#13 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I consider myself a servant, no, a slave to the majesty of God. As such, I am inclined to believe that the term is now always to be considered negative. In the Scriptures themselves servant-hood itself is not to be considered a bad thing and the Christian is called to submit to all men. However, mistreating others, slaves included, is to be denounced with that many of the practices found in American slavery. That stated, the vast majority of the abolition movement in the North and within England was spurned by the conviction from Scripture that people ought to be free to exercise their faith by their own choice. With that comes both freedom of state enforced religion and freedom from slavery. As such, I very much do denounce slavery as it was seen in earlier American history.toast_burner

You seemed to skip over the part where the bible says slave owners are allowed to kill their slaves as long as the death isn't instant

"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

I agree that the passage does seem extreme in comparison to modern Western views if one views it apart from its context. This instruction not to bring justice for such a beating because the slave is his money relates only to the financial circumstances of the one he serves. This passage is not a description of how a slave as a person is to be understood, nor a is it a prescription for how a slave is to be treated. The expectation for how Israelites were to treat one another (and particularly those who were typically oppressed or overlooked) is indicated in the repeated statements at other places within the text. Take for example Exodus 23:6-9 which states the following, "You shall not pervert the justice due to your poor in his lawsuit. Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked. And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the clear-sighted and subverts the cause of those who are in the right. You shall not oppress a sojourner. You know the heart of a sojourner, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt."
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MrGeezer

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#14 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

when the bible encourages the use of slavery?

It's funny how easily people can be coerced into Christianity. Or is it just that they aren't well read in the Bible? Or do they practice the commonly used "pick-and-choose" method of selecting which doctrines to practice?

LiftedHeadshot
In the USA, it actually largely dates back to slave days. Lots of blacks were in slavery, knew they'd die in slavery, and knew that all their kids would be slaves too. So it's like god and heaven were the only things to look forward to. Life was pretty $****, so the only thing many blacks had to look forward to was things getting better after they died. Then slavery ended, but things were still pretty crappy for blacks. In any case, it's certainly not like they just said, "yippee! I'm not a slave any more, so now I can finally ditch this religion thing." They were christians, so they raised their kids to be christians, who then raised their kids to be christians, and here we are today.
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Zeviander

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#15 Zeviander
Member since 2011 • 9503 Posts
I'd probably say it's a little of both. Most Christians these days only know about the parts of the Bible their pastor tells them about. And pick-and-choose is very popular amongst Western religious folk (i.e. Leviticus says homosexuality is bad, but don't worry about stoning people who work on Sunday, people with long hair or disobedient children).
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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#16 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I consider myself a servant, no, a slave to the majesty of God. As such, I am inclined to believe that the term is now always to be considered negative. In the Scriptures themselves servant-hood itself is not to be considered a bad thing and the Christian is called to submit to all men. However, mistreating others, slaves included, is to be denounced with that many of the practices found in American slavery. That stated, the vast majority of the abolition movement in the North and within England was spurned by the conviction from Scripture that people ought to be free to exercise their faith by their own choice. With that comes both freedom of state enforced religion and freedom from slavery. As such, I very much do denounce slavery as it was seen in earlier American history.mindstorm

You seemed to skip over the part where the bible says slave owners are allowed to kill their slaves as long as the death isn't instant

"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

I agree that the passage does seem extreme in comparison to modern Western views if one views it apart from its context. This instruction not to bring justice for such a beating because the slave is his money relates only to the financial circumstances of the one he serves. This passage is not a description of how a slave as a person is to be understood, nor a is it a prescription for how a slave is to be treated. The expectation for how Israelites were to treat one another (and particularly those who were typically oppressed or overlooked) is indicated in the repeated statements at other places within the text. Take for example Exodus 23:6-9 which states the following, "You shall not pervert the justice due to your poor in his lawsuit. Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked. And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the clear-sighted and subverts the cause of those who are in the right. You shall not oppress a sojourner. You know the heart of a sojourner, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt."

When it says "he is his money" it means he paid for him so he is his property.

Why don't you look at the verses directly before it? If a slave is married and is set free his wife and children are not alloed to leave with him.If a man sells his daughter as a slave, unlike male slaves she can never be let go.

The treatment of slaves according to the bible isn't any better than in modern history.

Exodus 21,12 states that if a man kills another man by accident he must leave his land, but if that person he kills happens to be his slave then he doesn't. If slaves are treated fairly then the punishment should be the same regardless of if he's a slave or not, no?

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Lonelynight

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#17 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts
the same reason why there are more unemployed blacks. they are uneducated
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SpartanMSU

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#18 SpartanMSU
Member since 2009 • 3440 Posts

Since when were blacks the only race who's people have been used as slaves?

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Blue-Sky

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#19 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

Lack of education

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WiiCubeM1

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#21 WiiCubeM1
Member since 2009 • 4735 Posts

Slavery in the bible was among all races and tribes.

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xscrapzx

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#22 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts

Why are so many people in here concerned with what others believe in, in this forum?

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xscrapzx

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#23 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts
I do not know. Most Christians I've encountered like to pick and choose from the bible when its suits them...meconate
As do many non believers who discredit the bible.
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SaintLeonidas

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#24 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts

Slavery in the bible was among all races and tribes.

WiiCubeM1
Not sure how that matters...if one group of people has faced oppression in the past, they more than anyone should be against the support of similar oppression for anyone.
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#27 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

Slavery in the bible was among all races and tribes.

SaintLeonidas
Not sure how that matters...if one group of people has faced oppression in the past, they more than anyone should be against the support of similar oppression for anyone.

Unfortunately, it often doesn't seem to work out that way. Nerds don't aspire to stop getting picked on by the bullies, they hope to one day become rich and powerful so that they can BE the bullies. It's similar to how atheists justifiably complain about persecution by religious people, and then immediately go on the attack the first time they get a chance.
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Netherscourge

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#28 Netherscourge
Member since 2003 • 16364 Posts

Well, considering most Bibles are based on the King James' version, and he, himself was a Monarch with servants, the whole slave idea probably got worked into his version somehow...

47 different religious scholars wrote/translated it over a 7 year period in the 1600s.

Slavery was alive and well in the 1600s... I guarantee you some of the practices/politics of the time were mangled and put in there - as subtly as possible.

wink wink

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lo_Pine

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#29 lo_Pine
Member since 2012 • 4978 Posts

Simply because that's just what they want to believe in.

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SaintLeonidas

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#30 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts
[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

Slavery in the bible was among all races and tribes.

thegerg
Not sure how that matters...if one group of people has faced oppression in the past, they more than anyone should be against the support of similar oppression for anyone.

All groups of people have faced oppression.

Yes, and if you want to make a thread about white people and this topic you are free to do so. But this topic is talking about African Americans specifically, which isn't unusual considering the history of slavery in America; and I would assume, given the picture the TC posted, he also chose to single them out given that anti-gay sentiment is very strong in black communities.
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Netherscourge

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#32 Netherscourge
Member since 2003 • 16364 Posts

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="thegerg"] All groups of people have faced oppression.thegerg
Yes, and if you want to make a thread about white people and this topic you are free to do so. But this topic is talking about African Americans specifically, which isn't unusual considering the history of slavery in America; and I would assume, given the picture the TC posted, he also chose to single them out given that anti-gay sentiment is very strong in black communities.

This thread is about blacks, not African Americans." Anyway, the point is that all groups of people have faced oppression. It doesn't make sense, then, to say "they more than anyone should be against the support of similar oppression for anyone."

Actually it makes perfect sense if the Bible tells it's followers that it's ok to have slaves and pass them down as material objects...

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Ragnarok1051

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#34 Ragnarok1051
Member since 2007 • 20238 Posts

Slaves were taught to read only one thing, and that was the Bible. That way they could read about being masters and slavery. It was in the Bible so they must follow it.

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Phaze-Two

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#35 Phaze-Two
Member since 2009 • 3444 Posts

Xian apologists ITT: "Sure, the bible allows slavery, but not RACIST slavery"

That doesn't really help your case... why in the eff would a perfectly moral god instruct you how to properly own slaves? Why woudn't he command you to just not have slaves in the first place? My head hurts.

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SaudiFury

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#36 SaudiFury
Member since 2007 • 8709 Posts

whatever it is, i always thought it had to do with the gospel music.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTE_X8jsIKq9s-II67oDe

always seems like a party is goin' on.

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BluRayHiDef

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#37 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[quote="BluRayHiDef"] Biblical slavery is not based on racism/ a sense of racial superiority. Biblical slavery is either indentured servitude or a punishment for heathenism.toast_burner
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.45You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.46You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." So you're allowed to have slaves as long as they are from a different country and race to you. How the hell is that not racist?

The nations aside from Israel worshipped false gods and idols (graven images). Hence they were heathens, and as such they were free-game in terms of being conquered by the Israelites. In other words, the allowance of using nonIsraelites as slaves was based on their worship of other gods and not on their ethnicity. As for non-Israelites who converted to the Israelite religion, here is what the Bible says:
48 And in case an alien resident resides as an alien with you and he will actually celebrate the passover to Jehovah, let there be a circumcising of every male of his. First then he may come near to celebrate it; and he must become like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised man may eat of it. 49 One law is to exist for the native and for the alien resident who is residing as an alien in YOUR midst. Exodus 12
Pay close attention to the last verse. Also keep in mind that Moses married a **** woman (dark skinned/ black woman), and when he was criticized for it by fellow Israelites, those Israelites were punished by Jehovah. Search for "Moses and the **** woman" via Google or read the 12th chapter of Numbers, a book in the Bible. Note : The word "****" is intentionally misspelled because Gamespot's forum software censors the correct spelling. When you type it into Google's search box, it should be corrected. It's actually spelled C-U-S-H-I-T-E.

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SaintLeonidas

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#38 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="thegerg"] All groups of people have faced oppression.

Yes, and if you want to make a thread about white people and this topic you are free to do so. But this topic is talking about African Americans specifically, which isn't unusual considering the history of slavery in America; and I would assume, given the picture the TC posted, he also chose to single them out given that anti-gay sentiment is very strong in black communities.

Anyway, the point is that all groups of people have faced oppression. It doesn't make sense, then, to say "they more than anyone should be against the support of similar oppression for anyone."

...yes, because white people know more than blacks in the US at the moment about oppression and slavery. :roll: Have any varieties of groups faced oppression in the past? Yes. But that doesn't mean at this moment in time one group can't possibly know more or still be feeling the direct results of such oppression, like slavery in the US, and with all the talk from that group about the horrors of such a thing they would be expected to be more vocal and opposed to such oppression towards others.
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bigdcstile

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#41 bigdcstile
Member since 2004 • 2236 Posts
You see, I've always wanted to have this conversation about the history and the role of the church - not just mere religion - in the black community but, I guess I shouldn't bother since you've already done the job well enough by tackling such an actually interesting topic with such grace and intelligence.
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Netherscourge

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#42 Netherscourge
Member since 2003 • 16364 Posts

[QUOTE="Netherscourge"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] This thread is about blacks, not African Americans." Anyway, the point is that all groups of people have faced oppression. It doesn't make sense, then, to say "they more than anyone should be against the support of similar oppression for anyone."thegerg

Actually it makes perfect sense if the Bible tells it's followers that it's ok to have slaves and pass them down as material objects...

That has nothing to do with my point. Please stay out of the conversation if you can't comprehend what it's about.

lol - it's a public forum - PM him if you want a 1-on-1 chat.

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GIJames248

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#44 GIJames248
Member since 2006 • 2176 Posts

They probably do not see a problem since with the New Covenant and the Christian era provideded some of the first real strong ideas of religious equality (i.e. every one being equal before God, and any good in them being because of God's grace/work, not their own increased metaphysical or moral value). The New Testament discourages (but notably does not ban) slavery and sees the spiritual brotherhood between men overcoming their potential legal differences.

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#45 kingkong0124
Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts

because black people know their religion.

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xscrapzx

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#46 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Yes, and if you want to make a thread about white people and this topic you are free to do so. But this topic is talking about African Americans specifically, which isn't unusual considering the history of slavery in America; and I would assume, given the picture the TC posted, he also chose to single them out given that anti-gay sentiment is very strong in black communities. SaintLeonidas
Anyway, the point is that all groups of people have faced oppression. It doesn't make sense, then, to say "they more than anyone should be against the support of similar oppression for anyone."

...yes, because white people know more than blacks in the US at the moment about oppression and slavery. :roll: Have any varieties of groups faced oppression in the past? Yes. But that doesn't mean at this moment in time one group can't possibly know more or still be feeling the direct results of such oppression, like slavery in the US, and with all the talk from that group about the horrors of such a thing they would be expected to be more vocal and opposed to such oppression towards others.

Nothing for nothing but not many people that are alive today know anything about oppression that were born in that states. Slavery was abolished over 140 years ago.
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thebest31406

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#47 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts
[QUOTE="LiftedHeadshot"]

when the bible encourages the use of slavery?

It's funny how easily people can be coerced into Christianity. Or is it just that they aren't well read in the Bible? Or do they practice the commonly used "pick-and-choose" method of selecting which doctrines to practice?

MrGeezer
In the USA, it actually largely dates back to slave days. Lots of blacks were in slavery, knew they'd die in slavery, and knew that all their kids would be slaves too. So it's like god and heaven were the only things to look forward to. Life was pretty $****, so the only thing many blacks had to look forward to was things getting better after they died. Then slavery ended, but things were still pretty crappy for blacks. In any case, it's certainly not like they just said, "yippee! I'm not a slave any more, so now I can finally ditch this religion thing." They were christians, so they raised their kids to be christians, who then raised their kids to be christians, and here we are today.

and there you go.
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thebest31406

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#48 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts
[QUOTE="LiftedHeadshot"]

when the bible encourages the use of slavery?

It's funny how easily people can be coerced into Christianity. Or is it just that they aren't well read in the Bible? Or do they practice the commonly used "pick-and-choose" method of selecting which doctrines to practice?

MrGeezer
In the USA, it actually largely dates back to slave days. Lots of blacks were in slavery, knew they'd die in slavery, and knew that all their kids would be slaves too. So it's like god and heaven were the only things to look forward to. Life was pretty $****, so the only thing many blacks had to look forward to was things getting better after they died. Then slavery ended, but things were still pretty crappy for blacks. In any case, it's certainly not like they just said, "yippee! I'm not a slave any more, so now I can finally ditch this religion thing." They were christians, so they raised their kids to be christians, who then raised their kids to be christians, and here we are today.

and there you go.
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ad1x2

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#49 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

In the past some people were beaten and threatened with death if they refused to give up their religion and they still refused anyway. With that, it still surprises me people think they can convince someone to give up their religion with a simple thread on a video game forum. Anybody who would so easily give up their religion probably wasn't that religious to begin with.

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GreySeal9

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#50 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

Since when were blacks the only race who's people have been used as slaves?

SpartanMSU

Did anybody say that? :?