Was Bin Laden a proper Muslim?

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

Does the KKK represent proper Christianity? 8)

spacesheikh

Yes some most certainly would.. Though these would be the same connections with organization.. Just like the others.. You don understand that not all Muslims supported OBL and there were numerous that denounced long ago as not representing their faith.

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"]

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"] How do we know Muslims would be grossly offended? Just a wild guess? :PManiacc1

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG7UJ7x8ozawcWS0Y1tE6OChe3Jw?docId=7079d8b79ab04465a1030dfaf9e04510

Look buddy if you don't read the news then I can't help you.

OBL was buried respectfully and yet Muslim Clerics still find something to complain about.

From the article:

"Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning."

Some people say that OBL is an extremist and does not represent Islam. But if the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning is so ardent to claim OBL's body, then surely OBL's beliefs are consistent with the content of Islam.

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"][QUOTE="Maniacc1"]You think that's the actual rationale behind it? :lol: They said that to lessen the tension with the Muslim community, when in actuality they didn't want a permanent burial place so as to discourage a "shrine."Maniacc1

They considered him a "Muslim" in faith, but I doubt a Muslim in practice. We consider Westboro Baptist Church members Christians, but we don't associate their practice as true Christianity. I'm not saying Muslims would have even gotten mad over it, (there's a good chance they did think he was a wack job) I'm just trying to make an argument from the U.S. perspective which knows squat about other cultures.

This is pretty true, just because someone believes they are doing something in the manner that they believe to reflect their holy book and it's teachings doesn't always mean they are being 'proper' members of that religion.

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"][QUOTE="spacesheikh"]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG7UJ7x8ozawcWS0Y1tE6OChe3Jw?docId=7079d8b79ab04465a1030dfaf9e04510

Look buddy if you don't read the news then I can't help you.

OBL was buried respectfully and yet Muslim Clerics still find something to complain about.

spacesheikh

From the article:

"Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning."

Some people say that OBL is an extremist and does not represent Islam. But if the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning is so ardent to claim OBL's body, then surely OBL's beliefs are consistent with the content of Islam.

I guess you have never ever heard of forgiveness in religion? Just something completely alien to you? You do understand that Bin Ladin hated all Americans including the Muslims over here right? Innocent Muslims were killed in 9/11 too you know... To me all it looks like your trying to do is white wash all of Islam as a bunch of extremist wack jobs.. And as some one said earlier, they accepted him as a Muslim of faith.. Not of practice.. If this isn;'t the case why are we giving last rites to death row inmates? Clearly they did some very bad things that can be looked down in Christianity/Islam/etcetc.

So wait, does that mean that if my neighbor, who doesn't think that killing me will net him a heavenly harem, dies and receives a proper Muslim burial that his beliefs are in line with Islamic teachings and therefore Bin Laden's aren't? I hate garage arguments, they're the worst ever and no one is ever going to solve them.

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"]

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"] People will always find something to complain about. I still don't get the point of this argument. OBL killed Muslims. He killed a lot of people. That doesn't coincide with Islam. Period. What exactly are you trying to insinuate here? sSubZerOo

From the article:

"Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning."

Some people say that OBL is an extremist and does not represent Islam. But if the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning is so ardent to claim OBL's body, then surely OBL's beliefs are consistent with the content of Islam.

I guess you have never ever heard of forgiveness in religion? Just something completely alien to you? You do understand that Bin Ladin hated all Americans including the Muslims over here right? Innocent Muslims were killed in 9/11 too you know... To me all it looks like your trying to do is white wash all of Islam as a bunch of extremist wack jobs.. And as some one said earlier, they accepted him as a Muslim of faith.. Not of practice.. If this isn;'t the case why are we giving last rites to death row inmates? Clearly their practices are very peaceful religious like.

All he said was that he didn't get the burial that the U.S claimed that he did? :? With all this arguing going on and tension flaring it seems Osama has made one last attempt at dividing people through his death.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"]

From the article:

"Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning."

Some people say that OBL is an extremist and does not represent Islam. But if the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning is so ardent to claim OBL's body, then surely OBL's beliefs are consistent with the content of Islam.

Nkemjo

I guess you have never ever heard of forgiveness in religion? Just something completely alien to you? You do understand that Bin Ladin hated all Americans including the Muslims over here right? Innocent Muslims were killed in 9/11 too you know... To me all it looks like your trying to do is white wash all of Islam as a bunch of extremist wack jobs.. And as some one said earlier, they accepted him as a Muslim of faith.. Not of practice.. If this isn;'t the case why are we giving last rites to death row inmates? Clearly their practices are very peaceful religious like.

All he said was that he didn't get the burial that the U.S claimed that he did? :? With all this arguing going on and tension flaring it seems Osama has made one last attempt at dividing people through his death.

He tried to insinuate that Osama having gotten the burial is a proper Muslim.... If you actually read his posts in other topics related to this he has no problem in stereotyping the entire Islam following as a bunch of fanatical extremists..

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"]

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"] How do we know Muslims would be grossly offended? Just a wild guess? :Pbigdcstile

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG7UJ7x8ozawcWS0Y1tE6OChe3Jw?docId=7079d8b79ab04465a1030dfaf9e04510

Look buddy if you don't read the news then I can't help you.

OBL was buried respectfully and yet Muslim Clerics still find something to complain about.

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"]

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

Does the KKK represent proper Christianity? 8)

sSubZerOo

Yes some most certainly would.. Though these would be the same connections with organization.. Just like the others.. You don understand that not all Muslims supported OBL and there were numerous that denounced long ago as not representing their faith.

[QUOTE="bigdcstile"][QUOTE="spacesheikh"]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG7UJ7x8ozawcWS0Y1tE6OChe3Jw?docId=7079d8b79ab04465a1030dfaf9e04510

Look buddy if you don't read the news then I can't help you.

OBL was buried respectfully and yet Muslim Clerics still find something to complain about.

spacesheikh

.. Except the Pope isn't the king of Christianity, and nor are the clerics.. Islam doesn't have any where close to the heirarchy of the Catholic order.. And your compare one branch of Christianity.. You do know there are multiple branches of Islam too right?

[QUOTE="bigdcstile"][QUOTE="spacesheikh"]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG7UJ7x8ozawcWS0Y1tE6OChe3Jw?docId=7079d8b79ab04465a1030dfaf9e04510

Look buddy if you don't read the news then I can't help you.

OBL was buried respectfully and yet Muslim Clerics still find something to complain about.

spacesheikh

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"] Would Christians threaten violence if KKK members get thrown in the ocean?

Mystic-G

Yes some most certainly would.. Though these would be the same connections with organization.. Just like the others.. You don understand that not all Muslims supported OBL and there were numerous that denounced long ago as not representing their faith.

.............. There are many people through out history and now who claim to be doing what their religion says that have been violent.. The people who bomb abortion clincs are extreme Christians that think they are saving lives.. And furthermore I said SOME most certainly would.. Because KKK is still a relatively large organization with some supporters.. And if the government would to do that, it would send warning bells to allt he crazy militias out there.. But the KKK isn't really a good example of this either way.. The fact of the matter is all religions and beliefs have crazy people in them.. Why must we stereotype any one when we have numerous examples of th exact opposite in every religiona nd belief?

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"][QUOTE="bigdcstile"] I'm still failing to see how a handful of clerics in Cairo = the whole religious base but, even then, their position is that he wasn't buried in the traditional way as noted by Islamic texts. Someone pointed out the WBC and, well, I have to say, if WBC members were buried in traditionally Islamic or Pagan way, there'd be the same relative few up in arms equal to the same relative few that were 'angered' by this... which is to say a negligible amount.BranKetra

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Yes some most certainly would.. Though these would be the same connections with organization.. Just like the others.. You don understand that not all Muslims supported OBL and there were numerous that denounced long ago as not representing their faith.

sSubZerOo

.............. There are many people through out history and now who claim to be doing what their religion says that have been violent.. The people who bomb abortion clincs are extreme Christians that think they are saving lives.. And furthermore I said SOME most certainly would.. Because KKK is still a relatively large organization with some supporters.. And if the government would to do that, it would send warning bells to allt he crazy militias out there.. But the KKK isn't really a good example of this either way.. The fact of the matter is all religions and beliefs have crazy people in them.. Why must we stereotype any one when we have numerous examples of th exact opposite in every religiona nd belief?

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]

[QUOTE="spacesheikh"] The clerics have the most authority to teach Islam. If the Pope came out with a new teaching, you can't just say "it's the belief of a handful guys in the Vatican." The Clerics represent Islam.spacesheikh

Yeah although it wasn't really a burial at all. Dumping someone in the sea is not my or I think anyone's idea of a proper burial. scar-hawk

.............. There are many people through out history and now who claim to be doing what their religion says that have been violent.. The people who bomb abortion clincs are extreme Christians that think they are saving lives.. And furthermore I said SOME most certainly would.. Because KKK is still a relatively large organization with some supporters.. And if the government would to do that, it would send warning bells to allt he crazy militias out there.. But the KKK isn't really a good example of this either way.. The fact of the matter is all religions and beliefs have crazy people in them.. Why must we stereotype any one when we have numerous examples of th exact opposite in every religiona nd belief?

sSubZerOo

Because in the modern world, Islam is giving us the most problems.

They should have just burned the house down, and their damned helicopter(really America? You just bloody left it there?!), and then just given his body to his countrymen. Stalin has a grave; as does Hitler Bin Laden should have gotten no different.

He was not a proper muslim. He used the religion and distorted it for his own cause.

As others have said, he didn't practice Islam in the right way. I've only studied Islam a little, so it's hard for me to say whether or not he deserved a proper burial. Like others have said also, there are many passages about forgiveness and God's mercy in the Quran. To me Judiaism, Christianity, and Islam are all really the same religion. In the Quran there is a scripture quoting Jesus that says, "Loveyour enemy as yourself". I believe Osama should have gotten a proper burial, because it would have shown humility to the world.

I can see how his tomb would have become a shrine and that wouldn't be good. Although, this could havebeen a moment we could have displayed why he wasn't a good muslim at all. Just think how powerful his tomb would have beensurroundedby all of the scriptures from the Quran he broke. Many muslims in the Middle East looked up to him, but many Muslims believe they aren't taking all of their scriptures into account. It seems to me that just about every teaching found in the Bible is in the Quran.

If you are a part of the three Abrahamic religons then to be in Jihad is a good thing. There is a Greater Jihad and a lesser jihad in the Quran. Jihad is just Arabic for "struggle". What most Muslims see asthe Greaterstruggle is to live without sin, and the lesser struggle is to defend yourself. Muhammad stressed the greater of the two by saying "Holy is the warrior who wrestles with himself." The Wahabi Salafi branch of Sunni Islam that Al'Queda (and many more clerics like the ones in Suadi Arabia) promots puts warfare as the way to get into heaven. However, their teachings are overlooking their own sins. Osama wrote about this in his own will to his sons. That doesn't change what he did, but you can understand that Islamis a religion that respects humanity. These so-called Jihadistshouldn't really be called jihadists at all inaMuslim's eyes, so to anwser the question if Osama was a proper Muslim I will leave this verse from the Quran: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgression" (Al-Baqarah 2:190; Qur'an). I believe that this verse really sheds light on what a true martr for God should follow.

I don't know-- that's up to God. The Qur'an promises that God will forgive any sin upon genuine repentance, so if Bin Laden genuinely repented of all the terrible things he did, then God forgave him and thus, he can be considered a muslim. However, he seemed like a man who would never repent/apologize for anything he did, so I highly doubt that he repented of those things.

He practiced Wahabbi Islam, a sunni branch which originally started out with it's mission dedicated to weeding out "impurities", and thus does not favour progressivism!!

It also originated in Saudi Arabia.

So nah he's not a real muslim =D

He practiced Wahabbi Islam, a sunni branch which originally started out with it's mission dedicated to weeding out "impurities", and thus does not favour progressivism!!

It also originated in Saudi Arabia.

So nah he's not a real muslim =D

mywalletsgone

Thanks for spelling Wahabbi correctly. Yes you are right about them wanting to weed out impurities among Muslims, but they also have added impurities if you think about it. One of their teachings for example is to keep almost every inch of a woman's body covered and in the Quran itself is says women should keep their faces uncovered.

Iwould say toothat he was a Muslim, just not a very good one.

I don't know. No? But on that logic, I wouldn't give any soldier who's killed or head of state who's green lighted any kind of killing a Christian burial either.

Whats a proper Christian? Whats a proper Muslim? Whats a proper Jew? Whats a proper hindu? etc etc? That depends entirely who your talking to.. If we are asking the West Baptist Church I am sure they will have a interesting definition to what a "proper" Christian is.. The fact of the matter is we don't know what a "proper" worshiper of Islam.. Because Mohammad is not alive any more so we clearly can not clarify to what he wanted.. In the end thats between god and the person, religion is a self identification if anything else.. The only thing that needs to be said is OBL did not share the ideals of numerous Muslim leaders and orders that spoke out against his organizations actions on 9/11.. People forget that 9/11 civilian deaths included Muslims as well.. OBL was hostile to other Islamic followers who were not as extreme as him.. sSubZerOo

I agree with you even though we shouldn't consider him an extremist, or jihadist ect. We can't really say good is in the eye of the beholder, because he went against what is considered good in the Quran. Right?

No, he didn't die with bombs wrapped around him while running into a building with innocent civilians in it... jk guys, don't kill me. Seriously though, no, because he killed people, which goes against his religion.Roushrsh

yes he was a muslim, every muslim should be given a islamic burial even if he is a sinner. Bin Laden was a great muslim even if he allegedly killed innocent people.

Christianspeople kill all the time and call it war. Obviously one of the 10 commandments is 'Don't kill people'.

So according to your logic all soldiers bodies should be dumped?

Personally I think it was the only option, his body would have made him a martyr and caused even more trouble.

Yes, he was a Muslim. Proper or not however is up to the person and more so, God.

Wanting to give him a proper burial has nothing to do if he was a good or bad Muslim. Even sinful Muslims are given a proper Islamic burial. Muslims wanting Osama to have a proper Muslim burial does not mean they approve of Osama's actions...

yes he was a muslim, every muslim should be given a islamic burial even if he is a sinner. Bin Laden was a great muslim even if he allegedly killed innocent people.

Harisemo

Christianspeople kill all the time and call it war. Obviously one of the 10 commandments is 'Don't kill people'.

So according to your logic all soldiers bodies should be dumped?

Personally I think it was the only option, his body would have made him a martyr and caused even more trouble.

tenaka2

As a side note, I believe bin Laden followers already started calling the area where they believe the body was dumpted the the "Martyr Sea" or something like that.

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

yes he was a muslim, every muslim should be given a islamic burial even if he is a sinner. Bin Laden was a great muslim even if he allegedly killed innocent people.

Commander-Gree

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"]

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

yes he was a muslim, every muslim should be given a islamic burial even if he is a sinner. Bin Laden was a great muslim even if he allegedly killed innocent people.

conistant

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

yes he was a muslim, every muslim should be given a islamic burial even if he is a sinner. Bin Laden was a great muslim even if he allegedly killed innocent people.

Commander-Gree

his good deeds far outweigh the alleged killings of innocent people which were a result of U.S. foreign policies.

[QUOTE="conistant"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] Wait a second, if Islam is a religion that denounces killing innocent people, then why is Bin Laden a great muslim even if he did kill innocent people? I wouldn't call a chrisitan, a jew, or a member of any other religion a good follower to that religion if they killed innocent people since killing is one of the biggest sins you can commit in most religions.

Commander-Gree

Bin laden was a great muslim and im sure majority of muslims scholars would agree with me. Questions should be raised about so called "muslim" who say bin laden was not a muslim. Unfortunatley there are many hypocrite muslims like that conistant guy you quoted

Harisemo, you do realize Al Qaeda killed innocent Muslim Saudi Arabian citizens, don't you? Osama is as good as the corrupt imperialist Westerns that made him.

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"]

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

yes he was a muslim, every muslim should be given a islamic burial even if he is a sinner. Bin Laden was a great muslim even if he allegedly killed innocent people.

Harisemo

his good deeds far outweigh the alleged killings of innocent people which were a result of U.S. foreign policies.

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] Wait a second, if Islam is a religion that denounces killing innocent people, then why is Bin Laden a great muslim even if he did kill innocent people? I wouldn't call a chrisitan, a jew, or a member of any other religion a good follower to that religion if they killed innocent people since killing is one of the biggest sins you can commit in most religions.

Commander-Gree

his good deeds far outweigh the alleged killings of innocent people which were a result of U.S. foreign policies.

Maybe it does not justify the killing of innocent people, but it sure as hell create people that do.

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

his good deeds far outweigh the alleged killings of innocent people which were a result of U.S. foreign policies.

Victorious_Fize

Maybe it does not justify the killing of innocent people, but it sure as hell create people that do.

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] Wait a second, if Islam is a religion that denounces killing innocent people, then why is Bin Laden a great muslim even if he did kill innocent people? I wouldn't call a chrisitan, a jew, or a member of any other religion a good follower to that religion if they killed innocent people since killing is one of the biggest sins you can commit in most religions.

Commander-Gree

his good deeds far outweigh the alleged killings of innocent people which were a result of U.S. foreign policies.

what makes you think bin laden didn't regret it (if he killed innocent people)? all sins can be forgiven if one asks for forgiveness.

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

his good deeds far outweigh the alleged killings of innocent people which were a result of U.S. foreign policies.

Harisemo

what makes you think bin laden didn't regret it (if he killed innocent people)? all sins can be forgiven if one asks for forgiveness.

Harisemo, you do realize Al Qaeda killed innocent Muslim Saudi Arabian citizens, don't you? Osama is as good as the corrupt imperialist Westerns that made him.

Victorious_Fize

I don't know arabic but did bin laden ever say his aim was to kill infidels and arab traitors?

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] Umm no. US foreign policies (as bad as they may or may not be) do not justify the (alleged) killing of thousands of innocents. And no amount of "good deeds" outweigh the killing of one innocent person if you don't regret doing it. Commander-Gree

what makes you think bin laden didn't regret it (if he killed innocent people)? all sins can be forgiven if one asks for forgiveness.

I don't trust what CIA tells me. I believe bin laden would never deliberately target innocent people because he himself said so.