Sweeping legislation goes through the south to ban abortion, contraceptives

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DroidPhysX

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#1 DroidPhysX
Member since 2010 • 17098 Posts

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/08/us-abortion-louisiana-idUSTRE7570AF20110608

The Louisiana state House of Representatives could soon consider a bill that would ban abortions and launch a battle to overturn the historic Roe v. Wade decision by the U.S. Supreme Court.

The bill by Republican state Rep. John LaBruzzo defines human life as beginning at the moment of conception and makes it a crime to terminate a pregnancy except when the birth would endanger the mother's life.

Two of the most aggressive efforts are under way in Alabama and Mississippi.

The measures define life as beginning at conception and would ban abortion. The Alabama Senate approved its bill, which is now pending in the House, and Mississippi residents will vote on the issue in November.

Nash says both of those bills "could conceivably" ban many forms of contraception because hormonal methods of contraception such as birth control pills act after fertilization of an egg occurs.

In Louisiana, LaBruzzo maintains that he has no intention of challenging a woman's right to practice contraception.

"This is not about interfering with anyone's ability to receive or participate in birth control," he told Reuters. "What the bill says is that life begins at conception, and a baby who is pre-born should enjoy all the rights that a 1-day-old baby does."

Cool, looks like they read the majority opinion of Roe v. Wade and did the opposite:

The Constitution does not define "person" in so many words. Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment contains three references to "person." The first, in defining "citizens," speaks of "persons born or naturalized in the United States." The word also appears both in the Due Process Clause and in the Equal Protection Clause. "Person" is used in other places in the Constitution: in the listing of qualifications for Representatives and Senators,and in theApportionment Clause;in the Migration and Importation provision, in the Emolument Clause,in the Electors provisions,and the superseded cl. 3; in the provision outlining qualifications for the office of President, Art. II, § 1, cl. 5; in the Extradition provisions, Art. IV, § 2, cl. 2, and the superseded Fugitive Slave Clause 3; and in the Fifth, Twelfth, and Twenty-second Amendments, as well as in §§ 2 and 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment.But in nearly all these instances, the use of the word is such that it has application only post-natally. None indicates, with any asurance, that it has any possible pre-natal application.

Source


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rawsavon

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#2 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
I would like to say that I would/could be affected by this. But I can't be...sucks for those that can though. New slogan: Zip it or live with it
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tenaka2

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#3 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

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jimmyjammer69

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#4 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
Surely this would never get past all the seedier representatives and moralists who would literally end up having to live with their mistakes.
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surrealnumber5

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#5 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

I would like to say that I would/could be affected by this. But I can't be...sucks for those that can though. New slogan: Zip it or live with it rawsavon
"you want birth control you can smoke a cigarette" -koolkeith

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fueled-system

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#6 fueled-system
Member since 2008 • 6529 Posts

Did they really think it through or do they just do it because of Religion

Ban abortion lets see

Unwanted Babies that come into this world have a higher chance of being abused

Orphanages will have an increase in unwated kids.

Do we really want these poor kids to suffer their lives simply because of a political view.

Kids do not ask to be born

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surrealnumber5

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#7 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

Did they really think it through or do they just do it because of Religion

Ban abortion lets see

Unwanted Babies that come into this world have a higher chance of being abused

Orphanages will have an increase in unwated kids.

Do we really want these poor kids to suffer their lives simply because of a political view.

Kids do not ask to be born

fueled-system

assumed suffering eh? aside from that line in your post the rest i see as valid arguments .

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fueled-system

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#8 fueled-system
Member since 2008 • 6529 Posts

[QUOTE="fueled-system"]

Did they really think it through or do they just do it because of Religion

Ban abortion lets see

Unwanted Babies that come into this world have a higher chance of being abused

Orphanages will have an increase in unwated kids.

Do we really want these poor kids to suffer their lives simply because of a political view.

Kids do not ask to be born

surrealnumber5

assumed suffering eh? aside from that line in your post the rest i see as valid arguments .

Yeah I do assume it but it would be a logical assumption would it not. Maybe I do assume to much on this but it would be painful not to know who your parents were growing up for some children.

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LordRork

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#9 LordRork
Member since 2004 • 2692 Posts

Nothing like politicians arguing semantics.

I can see this working its way to the courts and getting smacked down (or at least redefined).

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surrealnumber5

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#10 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="fueled-system"]

Did they really think it through or do they just do it because of Religion

Ban abortion lets see

Unwanted Babies that come into this world have a higher chance of being abused

Orphanages will have an increase in unwated kids.

Do we really want these poor kids to suffer their lives simply because of a political view.

Kids do not ask to be born

fueled-system

assumed suffering eh? aside from that line in your post the rest i see as valid arguments .

Yeah I do assume it but it would be a logical assumption would it not. Maybe I do assume to much on this but it would be painful not to know who your parents were growing up for some children.

i dont think it is a logical assumption but as both logic and feelings are subject to the individual that holds them i wont argue with you on it.

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arbitor365

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#11 arbitor365
Member since 2009 • 2726 Posts

i would say something about deleterious effects of the conservative nature of the south, but all criticisms of the south seem to be immediately censored on this forum.

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RandoIph

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#12 RandoIph
Member since 2010 • 2041 Posts
It's the South. We seem to do this a lot, and it always gets smacked down in the higher courts. The redneck bible thumping south will not ban abortion, period. All attempts to force Christian "morals" on others against their will shall be fought off vigorously.
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SPYDER0416

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#13 SPYDER0416
Member since 2008 • 16736 Posts

From a non religious standpoint I think that abortion should be minimized, but not entirely removed considering the circumstances in many cases of conception. I really can't understand contraceptives ban though, that's the stupidest thing I've heard. That is unless the lobbyists want STI rates to go up and have a bunch of poor kids running around and starving without proper care.

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Firebird-5

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#14 Firebird-5
Member since 2007 • 2848 Posts

i would say something about deleterious effects of the conservative nature of the south, but all criticisms of the south seem to be immediately censored on this forum.

arbitor365

everything is censored here for some dumb reason or another. its like the china of gaming sites

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LJS9502_basic

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#15 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178865 Posts
Louisiana is but one state....
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scorch-62

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#16 scorch-62
Member since 2006 • 29763 Posts
It's almost like they *want* this to go back to the courts.
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surrealnumber5

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#17 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
Louisiana is but one state....LJS9502_basic
they must like cleaning, because they are sweeping the south
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T_P_O

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#18 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts

The part that confuses me is this:

"Nash says both of those bills "could conceivably" ban many forms of contraception because hormonal methods of contraception such as birth control pills act after fertilization of an egg occurs."

Okay yeah, if we do define life to start at conception, then that means contragestional methods of birth control are affected too. (Also, >contraception after fertilization -- Whut.)

And then the guy's response: ""This is not about interfering with anyone's ability to receive or participate in birth control," he told Reuters. "What the bill says is that life begins at conception, and a baby who is pre-born should enjoy all the rights that a 1-day-old baby does.""

It'll ban contragestional methods of birth control then, since conception is when it receives the right to life. It does limit someone's ability to participate in contragestional birth control that isn't abortafacient(since that acts post-fertilization, ie after conception)... So then, my conclusion is that he is just goddamn terrible at designing legislation and/or giving statements about it.

edit: why font, why

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DroidPhysX

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#19 DroidPhysX
Member since 2010 • 17098 Posts
Louisiana is but one state....LJS9502_basic
You didn't catch the states "Alabama" and "Mississippi" did you?
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YellowOneKinobi

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#20 YellowOneKinobi
Member since 2011 • 4128 Posts

Did they really think it through or do they just do it because of Religion

Ban abortion lets see

Unwanted Babies that come into this world have a higher chance of being abused

Orphanages will have an increase in unwated kids.

Do we really want these poor kids to suffer their lives simply because of a political view.

Kids do not ask to be born

fueled-system

Nor do they asked to be killed after conception.

Just saying............

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tofu-lion91

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#21 tofu-lion91
Member since 2008 • 13496 Posts

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

tenaka2

This. And also, "makes it a crime to terminate a pregnancy except when the birth would endanger the mother's life"

I see that as hypocrisy. You're either for or against abortion, there's no room for middle ground when the pro-lifer's so vehmently suggest that ALL life is sacred etc etc.

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LJS9502_basic

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#22 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178865 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Louisiana is but one state....DroidPhysX
You didn't catch the states "Alabama" and "Mississippi" did you?

Three is still not the entire south though. The title suggests other than the OP. I wanted to see a mass sweeping.:(

Edit; I rechecked your OP. You did only mention the one state.

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CHOASXIII

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#23 CHOASXIII
Member since 2009 • 14716 Posts

Oh noez this is so terriblez.

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Buttons1990

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#24 Buttons1990
Member since 2009 • 3167 Posts

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

tenaka2

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

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LJS9502_basic

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#25 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178865 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

Buttons1990

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|
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TaCoDuDe

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#26 TaCoDuDe
Member since 2006 • 3239 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

Buttons1990

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

You have a serious misunderstanding of what it means to be a Christian.

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worlock77

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#27 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

tofu-lion91

This. And also, "makes it a crime to terminate a pregnancy except when the birth would endanger the mother's life"

I see that as hypocrisy. You're either for or against abortion, there's no room for middle ground when the pro-lifer's so vehmently suggest that ALL life is sacred etc etc.

Yeah, this is something I don't get about such stances myself. If we define life as beginning at conception, meaning that the fetus is a person entitled to the ful protection of the law, then how can it be ok to abort them under any circumstance? And if the fetus can be aborted for any reason then it clearly we do not consider it to be entitled to the full protection of the law.

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SpartanMSU

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#28 SpartanMSU
Member since 2009 • 3440 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

Buttons1990

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

Welcome to organized religion in general...

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Buttons1990

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#29 Buttons1990
Member since 2009 • 3167 Posts

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

LJS9502_basic

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|

Yes the Inquisition never happened and scinece was never called heresy... Never...

Guess the holocaust never happened either mirite?

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tenaka2

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#30 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

Buttons1990

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

I don't think you are being fair, a lot of these things apply to a lot of religions not just Christianity.

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worlock77

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#31 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

Buttons1990

Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|

Yes the Inquisition never happened and scinece was never called heresy... Never...

Guess the holocaust never happened either mirite?

Was it really necessary to Godwin this thread?

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Buttons1990

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#32 Buttons1990
Member since 2009 • 3167 Posts

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

tenaka2

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

I don't think you are being fair, a lot of these things apply to a lot of religions not just Christianity.

But Islam and Judaism aren't causing these laws to be passed in the South...

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LJS9502_basic

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#33 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178865 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Welcome to Christianity!

Where progress is a sin, free thought is a sin, contraceptive is a sin, science is a sin, being anything other than Christian is a sin, pretty much everything other than worshipping imaginary people is a sin... Oh, but at the same time... You can commit all these sins, including murder and child molestation.... All you have to do is remain a Christian and ask Jesus for forgiveness... Then it's all good... But if you are gay No matter if you pay your taxes in full and on time, donate to charity, help in the community... You are going to hell... No exceptions... Unless of course you stop being gay join the Christians, and ask for forgiveness that is...

What a wonderful religion...

Buttons1990

Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|

Yes the Inquisition never happened and scinece was never called heresy... Never...

Guess the holocaust never happened either mirite?

Let's go back to ancient history shall we? Nonetheless the Inquisition was the actions of the Spanish Monarchy. The holocaust was not a religious motivation either.:|
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Buttons1990

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#34 Buttons1990
Member since 2009 • 3167 Posts

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|worlock77

Yes the Inquisition never happened and scinece was never called heresy... Never...

Guess the holocaust never happened either mirite?

Was it really necessary to Godwin this thread?

Any thread where Christians blindly defend their religion will Godwin... Like the atrocities committed by Christianity in general go hand in hand with what Nazis did... I would compare what has been done because of religion to something else, but Nazis and religion are pretty much the only similar genocides that come to mind...

I guess I could say the genocide in Dafur never happened either mirite? But no one denies that genocide like they do the holocaust so it doesn't really fit with my similarity thing... :(

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YellowOneKinobi

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#35 YellowOneKinobi
Member since 2011 • 4128 Posts

I personally am against abortion but for various reasons (thatI continue to wrestle with)I have trouble stating that it should be illegal across the board.

But the question I have for pro-choice people is: At what point is abortion murder? Is aborting an unborn baby in the 9th month murder? In the 8th month maybe? Where is the cut-off? Exactly when is an unborn baby a person?

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tenaka2

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#36 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|LJS9502_basic

Galileo says hi.

The first important attack on Galileo began in 1610, when he announced that his telescope had revealed the moons of the planet Jupiter. The enemy saw that this took the Copernican theory out of the realm of hypothesis, and they gave battle immediately. They denounced both his method and its results as absurd and impious. As to his method, professors bred in the ``safe science'' favoured by the Church argued that the divinely appointed way of arriving at the truth in astronomy was by theological reasoning on texts of Scripture; and, as to his results, they insisted, first, that Aristotle knew nothing of these new revelations; and, next, that the Bible showed by all applicable types that there could be only seven planets; that this was proved by the seven golden candlesticks of the Apocalypse, by the seven-branched candlestick of the tabernacle, and by the seven churches of Asia; that from Galileo's doctrine consequences must logically result destructive to Christian truth. Bishops and priests therefore warned their flocks, and multitudes of the faithful besought the Inquisition to deal speedily and sharply with the heretic.

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Buttons1990

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#37 Buttons1990
Member since 2009 • 3167 Posts

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|LJS9502_basic

Yes the Inquisition never happened and scinece was never called heresy... Never...

Guess the holocaust never happened either mirite?

Let's go back to ancient history shall we? Nonetheless the Inquisition was the actions of the Spanish Monarchy. The holocaust was not a religious motivation either.:|

Um... The Spanish Inquisition wasn't the only inquisition... Hell Heresy doesn't even have to be science... Until Martin Luther translated the bible to German and the reformation occurred... It was a sin, punishable by death for anyone other than the clergy to read the bible... And why do you think the US and Canada are full of Amish and Menonites? Because the Catholic church declared them heretics and tried to exterminate them... All because they wanted to live their lives by the bible and not by how the Church told them to live it...

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LJS9502_basic

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#38 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178865 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|tenaka2

Galileo says hi.


2011 says hi. Science is NOT a sin in Christianity. What someone in the past did for political motives is not of Christianity as a whole. Unless you can show me in the NT where Jesus condemned Galileo.

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LJS9502_basic

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#39 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178865 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Yes the Inquisition never happened and scinece was never called heresy... Never...

Guess the holocaust never happened either mirite?

Buttons1990

Let's go back to ancient history shall we? Nonetheless the Inquisition was the actions of the Spanish Monarchy. The holocaust was not a religious motivation either.:|

Um... The Spanish Inquisition wasn't the only inquisition... Hell Heresy doesn't even have to be science... Until Martin Luther translated the bible to German and the reformation occurred... It was a sin, punishable by death for anyone other than the clergy to read the bible... And why do you think the US and Canada are full of Amish and Menonites? Because the Catholic church declared them heretics and tried to exterminate them... All because they wanted to live their lives by the bible and not by how the Church told them to live it...

Heresy is not described as science. That isn't actually true you know.
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worlock77

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#40 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Yes the Inquisition never happened and scinece was never called heresy... Never...

Guess the holocaust never happened either mirite?

Buttons1990

Was it really necessary to Godwin this thread?

Any thread where Christians blindly defend their religion will Godwin... Like the atrocities committed by Christianity in general go hand in hand with what Nazis did... I would compare what has been done because of religion to something else, but Nazis and religion are pretty much the only similar genocides that come to mind...

I guess I could say the genocide in Dafur never happened either mirite? But no one denies that genocide like they do the holocaust so it doesn't really fit with my similarity thing... :(

Sorry, but whenever I see someone make absurd comparisons to Nazis I can't help but think it a sign of a weak argument. But we're getting off topic here...

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Buttons1990

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#41 Buttons1990
Member since 2009 • 3167 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Christianity has never called science a sin. Some people do value life and see abortion as taking a life. Christians can also be gay :|LJS9502_basic

Galileo says hi.

The first important attack on Galileo began in 1610, when he announced that his telescope had revealed the moons of the planet Jupiter. The enemy saw that this took the Copernican theory out of the realm of hypothesis, and they gave battle immediately. They denounced both his method and its results as absurd and impious. As to his method, professors bred in the ``safe science'' favoured by the Church argued that the divinely appointed way of arriving at the truth in astronomy was by theological reasoning on texts of Scripture; and, as to his results, they insisted, first, that Aristotle knew nothing of these new revelations; and, next, that the Bible showed by all applicable types that there could be only seven planets; that this was proved by the seven golden candlesticks of the Apocalypse, by the seven-branched candlestick of the tabernacle, and by the seven churches of Asia; that from Galileo's doctrine consequences must logically result destructive to Christian truth. Bishops and priests therefore warned their flocks, and multitudes of the faithful besought the Inquisition to deal speedily and sharply with the heretic.

2011 says hi.

So its OK to have these ridiculous laws based on an Ancient book and the ridiculous beliefs created because of it... But it is not ok to reference historic events that ACTUALLY OCCURRED AND ARE RECORDED IN HISTORY...

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CaveJohnson1

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#42 CaveJohnson1
Member since 2011 • 1714 Posts

Did they really think it through or do they just do it because of Religion

Ban abortion lets see

Unwanted Babies that come into this world have a higher chance of being abused

Orphanages will have an increase in unwated kids.

Do we really want these poor kids to suffer their lives simply because of a political view.

Kids do not ask to be born

fueled-system

fyi, the republican party doesn't give a crap once they're actually born.

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Buttons1990

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#43 Buttons1990
Member since 2009 • 3167 Posts

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Was it really necessary to Godwin this thread?

worlock77

Any thread where Christians blindly defend their religion will Godwin... Like the atrocities committed by Christianity in general go hand in hand with what Nazis did... I would compare what has been done because of religion to something else, but Nazis and religion are pretty much the only similar genocides that come to mind...

I guess I could say the genocide in Dafur never happened either mirite? But no one denies that genocide like they do the holocaust so it doesn't really fit with my similarity thing... :(

Sorry, but whenever I see someone make absurd comparisons to Nazis I can't help but think it a sign of a weak argument. But we're getting off topic here...

Yes an argument about how terrible Christianity has been and in some ways still is, is a weak argument... There is no evidence to support it and Christians are such loveable people that it is absurd to claim otherwise...

Right.

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worlock77

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#44 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Any thread where Christians blindly defend their religion will Godwin... Like the atrocities committed by Christianity in general go hand in hand with what Nazis did... I would compare what has been done because of religion to something else, but Nazis and religion are pretty much the only similar genocides that come to mind...

I guess I could say the genocide in Dafur never happened either mirite? But no one denies that genocide like they do the holocaust so it doesn't really fit with my similarity thing... :(

Buttons1990

Sorry, but whenever I see someone make absurd comparisons to Nazis I can't help but think it a sign of a weak argument. But we're getting off topic here...

Yes an argument about how terrible Christianity has been and in some ways still is, is a weak argument... There is no evidence to support it and Christians are such loveable people that it is absurd to claim otherwise...

Right.

You're not even arguing, you're just lashing out some person beef against Christians. Now how about getting back to the actual topic of the thread?

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Diablo-B

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#45 Diablo-B
Member since 2009 • 4063 Posts
First, I don't agree with some of the hard left stances of the democrats, however it always feels as though the loudest voices of the republicans are trying to push our society backwards.

Second, why are male politicians always the ones trying to lead out in a woman's choice of abortion. If a female politician tried to make a law about what men can go with their balls, she would be crucified.

Third, did pro-lifers forget about history. We tried to ban abortions. The social outcome was so adverse that we socially had to un-ban it. Its safer and healthier for society if we regulate things like abortions and low risk drugs (weed) then banning them. Banning wont stop it. It will only add a criminal element to it.
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LJS9502_basic

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#46 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178865 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Any thread where Christians blindly defend their religion will Godwin... Like the atrocities committed by Christianity in general go hand in hand with what Nazis did... I would compare what has been done because of religion to something else, but Nazis and religion are pretty much the only similar genocides that come to mind...

I guess I could say the genocide in Dafur never happened either mirite? But no one denies that genocide like they do the holocaust so it doesn't really fit with my similarity thing... :(

Buttons1990

Sorry, but whenever I see someone make absurd comparisons to Nazis I can't help but think it a sign of a weak argument. But we're getting off topic here...

Yes an argument about how terrible Christianity has been and in some ways still is, is a weak argument... There is no evidence to support it and Christians are such loveable people that it is absurd to claim otherwise...

Right.

Maybe you should read the NT and then see the message of Christianity. Hint: Peace and love.
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Buttons1990

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#47 Buttons1990
Member since 2009 • 3167 Posts

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Sorry, but whenever I see someone make absurd comparisons to Nazis I can't help but think it a sign of a weak argument. But we're getting off topic here...

LJS9502_basic

Yes an argument about how terrible Christianity has been and in some ways still is, is a weak argument... There is no evidence to support it and Christians are such loveable people that it is absurd to claim otherwise...

Right.

Maybe you should read the NT and then see the message of Christianity. Hint: Peace and love.

Why when I can read the OT (you know, what "god's word" is supposed to be)... Oh, so god's word doesn't matter? The Church can just ignore it and write a new, more nice book to replace it... Aint that swell...?

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jimmyjammer69

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#48 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sometimes if feels like the world is going back in time rather then forward.

worlock77

This. And also, "makes it a crime to terminate a pregnancy except when the birth would endanger the mother's life"

I see that as hypocrisy. You're either for or against abortion, there's no room for middle ground when the pro-lifer's so vehmently suggest that ALL life is sacred etc etc.

Yeah, this is something I don't get about such stances myself. If we define life as beginning at conception, meaning that the fetus is a person entitled to the ful protection of the law, then how can it be ok to abort them under any circumstance? And if the fetus can be aborted for any reason then it clearly we do not consider it to be entitled to the full protection of the law.

I'm one of those people, except I'd use the phrase 'inherently valuable', in place of the religiously loaded 'sacred'. There's nothing inconsistent in saying stealing is wrong, but there are cases where it's the lesser of two evils; likewise with killing or the vast majority of crimes/evils you'd care to think up.
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SpartanMSU

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#49 SpartanMSU
Member since 2009 • 3440 Posts

First, I don't agree with some of the hard left stances of the democrats, however it always feels as though the loudest voices of the republicans are trying to push our society backwards.

Second, why are male politicians always the ones trying to lead out in a woman's choice of abortion. If a female politician tried to make a law about what men can go with their balls, she would be crucified.

Third, did pro-lifers forget about history. We tried to ban abortions. The social outcome was so adverse that we socially had to un-ban it. Its safer and healthier for society if we regulate things like abortions and low risk drugs (weed) then banning them. Banning wont stop it. It will only add a criminal element to it.Diablo-B

Because they believe that life starts at conception, meaning that the thing growing inside of her is another life, and not just her body anymore. I don't believe this, but I'm just explaining their thought process.

Basically, your stance on abortion all comes down to when you think that collection of cells actually becomes a person. You can't really say one side is absolutely idiotic for believing what they do, whether your pro-life or pro-choice. I can understand both sides of the argument, but I'm pro-choice.

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LJS9502_basic

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#50 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178865 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Yes an argument about how terrible Christianity has been and in some ways still is, is a weak argument... There is no evidence to support it and Christians are such loveable people that it is absurd to claim otherwise...

Right.

Buttons1990

Maybe you should read the NT and then see the message of Christianity. Hint: Peace and love.

Why when I can read the OT (you know, what "god's word" is supposed to be)... Oh, so god's word doesn't matter? The Church can just ignore it and write a new, more nice book to replace it... Aint that swell...?

Christians follow the teaching of Jesus. So yeah...His teachings are the important ones.