Should Poor People Have Kids?

Hello OT,

I always through about this debate countless times.....Should Poor People Have Kids?

Some say that not allowing humans to breed is simply wrong while some say that giving birth to children you cannot support financially is wrong as well.

What do you think?

In the US, people have rights, so no limits should be put onpeople to have children.

Personally, I think IQ tests and birthing licenses would be great. Certain people should have their number of spawn monitered and limited.

Depends on how poor. If you're living on food stamps and can't pay your bills, of course not. That's just irresponsible, you're in no position to raise a child.

second option is the best. Don't let them have a baby until they solve their financial problems. Those people have problems already and they're adding another problem.shadowchronicle

It's completely irresponsible and a bad idea for a person in a dire financial/other situation to have a kid, but the government should not have the authority to force a person to not have children.

Depends on how poor. If you're living on food stamps and can't pay your bills, of course not. That's just irresponsible, you're in no position to raise a child.

UbiquitousAeon

I'll have to agree with this. I always see single mothers of 3-5 infants/toddlers and they are financially unstable.

For the sake of the child, I would hope that the adults exercise good discretion and are willing and able to make lifestyIe changes to ensure the child is supported. Kids are expensive, and needless to say, a poor financial situation at home is not helping set them up for success later in life.

[QUOTE="shadowchronicle"]second option is the best. Don't let them have a baby until they solve their financial problems. Those people have problems already and they're adding another problem.JasonDarksavior

normal poor people: only a few, at most

3rd world country poor: ummmm no?

If they cant afford to take care of themselves then, yes they should not be allowed to have children. People are just irresponsible though, and dont actually think about the consequences 9/10 times. Its sad, but true.

As a supporter of personal freedoms, if someone wants to have a kid they should be allowed to.

The government doesn't need to have a say in who gets to make babies and who doesn't.

I'm not going to tell people if they can or can't procreate, but I would appreciate it if people only had children if they knew they could handle the responsiblity because I don't like seeing people draining the system (in this case I'm referring to government programs) because they can't make responsible decisions. Doing so affects other people, and that's what I have a problem with.t3hrubikscube

Well how poor are we talking?

I mean homeless no, but lower class, yes, as long as the child can live a happy healthy life.

if they want to ruin their lives, i don't see what's stopping them.themagicbum9720

What if your poor, but you know you are going to become rich??? Then I think having kids becomes debatable.

[QUOTE="JasonDarksavior"][QUOTE="shadowchronicle"]second option is the best. Don't let them have a baby until they solve their financial problems. Those people have problems already and they're adding another problem.shadowchronicle

Actually, crime rates, jobless claims, poverty levels and domestic violence are lower in areas with higher rates of abortion. the simple fact of the matter is, poor people are much, much better off not having kids.

Hello OT,

I always through about this debate countless times.....Should Poor People Have Kids?

Some say that not allowing humans to breed is simply wrong while some say that giving birth to children you cannot support financially is wrong as well.

What do you think?

JasonDarksavior

I think the only reason the government has those programs is because people are irresponsible. I think the government should take those programs away. See how that works out for a change... UbiquitousAeon

It will "work out" with people who are completely dependent on those payments starving or resorting to crime as they do in other nations where government support is not available. It will not stop people from making bad decisions and having children they can't support.

[QUOTE="t3hrubikscube"]I'm not going to tell people if they can or can't procreate, but I would appreciate it if people only had children if they knew they could handle the responsiblity because I don't like seeing people draining the system (in this case I'm referring to government programs) because they can't make responsible decisions. Doing so affects other people, and that's what I have a problem with.UbiquitousAeon

As a supporter of personal freedoms, if someone wants to have a kid they should be allowed to.

The government doesn't need to have a say in who gets to make babies and who doesn't.

airshocker

It's completely irresponsible and a bad idea for a person in a dire financial/other situation to have a kid, but the government should not have the authority to force a person to not have children.

TM_Darkside

I agree, the government should stay out of it. I don't want the parents asking for financial help at any point either. Wishful thinking I know but it's awful seeing people insist that having their children paid for by everyone else is a "right" of some kind. No personal responsibility.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

As a supporter of personal freedoms, if someone wants to have a kid they should be allowed to.

The government doesn't need to have a say in who gets to make babies and who doesn't.

UbiquitousAeon

In the US, people have rights, so no limits should be put onpeople to have children.

Personally, I think IQ tests and birthing licenses would be great. Certain people should have their number of spawn monitered and limited.

heysharpshooter

birthing licenses, yes. There are way too many dumb parents, I think you should have to take at least a few months worth of classes before being allowed to have a child, and if you do get pregnant you should be forced to go before the baby is born or soon after.

But IQ tests? Thats a bit Big Brother imo. Plus, the world always needs ditch diggers.

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

In the US, people have rights, so no limits should be put onpeople to have children.

Personally, I think IQ tests and birthing licenses would be great. Certain people should have their number of spawn monitered and limited.

mrbojangles25

birthing licenses, yes. There are way too many dumb parents, I think you should have to take at least a few months worth of classes before being allowed to have a child, and if you do get pregnant you should be forced to go before the baby is born or soon after.

But IQ tests? Thats a bit Big Brother imo. Plus, the world always needs ditch diggers.

Stupid people generally raise stupid children. its not like someone who digs ditches are stupid. My father has an IQ of 120, and he's in construction.

One thing you're forgetting is that reproduction is not a man given right. It's nature. Nature didn't make countries & laws and base the world on man's unwillingness to share and help each other. Man created his own greed. Man decided he should conquer and dictate. Man decided he should possess all of the wealth and own everything. So I'm not going to saypoor people can't have children simply because they aren't wealthy.I'm not going to punish decent people because others abuse welfare.

I dont think a law about it should be made. But people should know their financial situation well enough to see if they can afford to raise kids.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

In the US, people have rights, so no limits should be put onpeople to have children.

Personally, I think IQ tests and birthing licenses would be great. Certain people should have their number of spawn monitered and limited.

heysharpshooter

birthing licenses, yes. There are way too many dumb parents, I think you should have to take at least a few months worth of classes before being allowed to have a child, and if you do get pregnant you should be forced to go before the baby is born or soon after.

But IQ tests? Thats a bit Big Brother imo. Plus, the world always needs ditch diggers.

Stupid people generally raise stupid children. its not like someone who digs ditches are stupid. My father has an IQ of 120, and he's in construction.

I agree, sorry if I came off as if I was generalizing. I know some smart people in stereoptyical "stupid" jobs (janitors, construction, welding, painting,etc).

However, I also know some pretty stupid people in jobs like that as well. Proportionately, more of them.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are not enough smart folks (like your Dad) that enjoy such work to fill all the positions, and they need to be supplemented by stupid people.

So while your dad is likely measuring and doing important stuff, he can have some stupid guy with a wheelborrow taking old drywall and stuff out to the dumpster.

Anyway, that is besides the point: I cannot really deny someone the joy of a child or two (hopefully not more) and live with myself, no matter how stupid or bigoted they might be, and have bad their children might turn out.

People have the right to make that fundamental choice.

One thing you're forgetting is that reproduction is not a man given right. It's nature. Nature didn't make countries & laws and base the world on man's unwillingness to share and help each other. Man created his own greed. Man decided he should conquer and dictate. Man decided he should possess all of the wealth and own everything. So I'm not going to saypoor people can't have children simply because they aren't wealthy.I'm not going to punish decent people because others abuse welfare.

MagnumPI

reminds me of that movie Fortress

you had more than one child. Go to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200 dollars.

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

birthing licenses, yes. There are way too many dumb parents, I think you should have to take at least a few months worth of classes before being allowed to have a child, and if you do get pregnant you should be forced to go before the baby is born or soon after.

But IQ tests? Thats a bit Big Brother imo. Plus, the world always needs ditch diggers.

mrbojangles25

Stupid people generally raise stupid children. its not like someone who digs ditches are stupid. My father has an IQ of 120, and he's in construction.

I agree, sorry if I came off as if I was generalizing. I know some smart people in stereoptyical "stupid" jobs (janitors, construction, welding, painting,etc).

However, I also know some pretty stupid people in jobs like that as well. Proportionately, more of them.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are not enough smart folks (like your Dad) that enjoy such work to fill all the positions, and they need to be supplemented by stupid people.

So while your dad is likely measuring and doing important stuff, he can have some stupid guy with a wheelborrow taking old drywall and stuff out to the dumpster.

Anyway, that is besides the point: I cannot really deny someone the joy of a child or two (hopefully not more) and live with myself, no matter how stupid or bigoted they might be, and have bad their children might turn out.

I agree that in the end, we can't limit people reproductive urges. However, children are not always a joy. Sometimes, they can truly be nothing but a burden, especially on people not smart or mature enough to handle them.

I think that the whole concept of IQ tests to have children is going WAAAY too far.

That's the government controlling something that is not for the government to control.

The potential misuse is enormous. Remember those tests for voting?

I think that the whole concept of IQ tests to have children is going WAAAY too far.

That's the government controlling something that is not for the government to control.

SgtKevali

But if the kids parents are poor, and they are not intellgent enough to make more money to support the child, then they end up paying to feed, cloth and eventually imprision the child. Should they not take preventative measures?

But if the kids parents are poor, and they are not intellgent enough to make more money to support the child, then they end up paying to feed, cloth and eventually imprision the child. Should they not take preventative measures?

heysharpshooter

Maybe they shouldn't have the kid, but it's not the government's job to tell them what to do. People should have the right to make that kind of choice.

The potential for misuse is enormous, anyway.

I would hope that people have kids when they are best financially able to raise them, for their sake as well as that of their child(ren). I vehemently oppose the idea that the government should enforce this in any regards. Reproduction is a fundamental right, and should remain so.

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

But if the kids parents are poor, and they are not intellgent enough to make more money to support the child, then they end up paying to feed, cloth and eventually imprision the child. Should they not take preventative measures?

SgtKevali

Maybe they shouldn't have the kid, but it's not the government's job to tell them what to do. People should have the right to make that kind of choice.

The potential for misuse is enormous, anyway.

But if the government supports the child, then whose child is it really? The government usually ends up adopting the children by force anyway. Why not save the money and create birthing licenses and have mandatory abortions?

Okay, what are we talking about when we refer to poor people "not being allowed" to have children? Forced abortion? Forced sterilization of poor people?

If we're talking about not allowing them to have children, then how the hell do you people propose preventing them from having children?

I would hope that people have kids when they are best financially able to raise them, for their sake as well as that of their child(ren). I vehemently oppose the idea that the government should enforce this in any regards. Reproduction is a fundamental right, and should remain so.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

I think that the whole concept of IQ tests to have children is going WAAAY too far.

That's the government controlling something that is not for the government to control.

heysharpshooter

But if the kids parents are poor, and they are not intellgent enough to make more money to support the child, then they end up paying to feed, cloth and eventually imprision the child. Should they not take preventative measures?

for better or worse (the debate belongs in another forum, I wont start a welfare argument here) the government pretty much makes sure no one starves in the United States. So while your quality of life might be depressingly low, well, you won't die and there will be some sort of work for you, if you get off your butt.

now, the question is: do we want to lessen the amount of people living this lifestyle (the practical, yet arguably cold choice), or do we want to let people make their own decisions (the compassionate and humane, yet arguably impractical, choice)

I really dont know tbh. I am on the fence. As it is now, with the way the world is, I do not things are even remotely close to being so bad as to warrant population control to this degree

Furthermore, it is a slippery slope. Who, exactly, is too dumb to breed? Who is too fat? Who runs the risk of producing a child with Down Syndrome? Do you have a history of alcoholism or drug abuse in your family?

The amount of time it would take for society to devolve into a "Gattaca"-type one would be suprisingly fast.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

But if the kids parents are poor, and they are not intellgent enough to make more money to support the child, then they end up paying to feed, cloth and eventually imprision the child. Should they not take preventative measures?

Maybe they shouldn't have the kid, but it's not the government's job to tell them what to do. People should have the right to make that kind of choice.

The potential for misuse is enormous, anyway.

But if the government supports the child, then whose child is it really? The government usually ends up adopting the children by force anyway. Why not save the money and create birthing licenses and have mandatory abortions?